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| The Lion's Share | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 14 2015, 07:48 AM (912 Views) | |
| RJD | Feb 14 2015, 07:48 AM Post #1 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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LINK Labour's cry that this Gov. has benefited the rich is just another one of their lies. Not sure whether Labour should be called the "Nasty Party", but that has been taken or the "Dirty Party" for their addiction to dirty tricks or best just the "Liar Party" as that is their standard? They certainly have adopted the spreading of lies to create envy or fear, but they always did as that replaces the need for a coherent economic strategy. |
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| papasmurf | Feb 14 2015, 11:59 PM Post #41 |
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Saying and NOT doing is something the current government excels at. |
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| HIGHWAY | Feb 15 2015, 12:09 AM Post #42 |
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I would ask you such as,but like you have done on this thread earlier,you won't answer,and like earlier you will lie about the questions I ask you |
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| Rich | Feb 15 2015, 12:26 AM Post #43 |
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And saying and doing the opposite is what the last lot excelled at. |
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| Affa | Feb 15 2015, 12:52 AM Post #44 |
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What's going on is that these figures are not inflation adjusted. In real terms it doubtful there has been any improvement in Income Tax returns, or NI since the arrival of zero hour contracts. One of Georges excuses for the deficit having risen again is that tax revenues are below his forecasts, |
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| Lewis | Feb 15 2015, 08:10 AM Post #45 |
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Well Scameron will never do that. All his lot care about are tax dodging donors to the incompetents. |
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| HIGHWAY | Feb 15 2015, 09:17 AM Post #46 |
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You forgot to put down,that the Tory's,want to get the work shy back to work,unlike the Labour Party |
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| papasmurf | Feb 15 2015, 09:30 AM Post #47 |
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I refer you to this research I posted earlier:- http://www.sociology.ox.ac.uk/working-papers/do-punitive-approaches-to-unemployment-benefit-recipients-increase-welfare-exit-and-employment-a-cross-area-analysis-of-uk-sanctioning-reforms.html Published: Jan 2015 Globally, there is growing pressure on welfare systems to reduce spending. Starting in 2011, the UK introduced a series of reforms that expanded the use of punitive ‘sanctioning’, which terminates unemployment benefits if claimants fail to comply with one or more welfare conditionalities. We tested whether increasing sanctions under the new reforms reduce access to benefits without creating a concomitant rise in employment. Our findings indicate that the imposition of adverse sanctions is increasing exit from unemployment benefit in the UK. We were unable to detect an impact on employment recovery. http://www.sociology.ox.ac.uk/materials/papers/sanction120115-2.pdf Conclusions Our study evaluated the impact of the rise in sanctioning that occurred following reforms to JSA conditionality and sanction regime from 2011. It has three main findings. First, the increasing application of adverse sanctions has corresponded to a substantial increase in persons exiting JSA. This relationship existed before the reforms, but the strength of association tripled under the new regime. Second, the majority of persons who lost JSA in association with an adverse sanction did not flow into employment but to destinations unrelated to work. Third, we failed to find an effect of the increasing application of adverse sanctioning and either rising employment or falling unemployment rates within local authorities. |
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| HIGHWAY | Feb 15 2015, 10:01 AM Post #48 |
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Imagine that a government that's trying to get the work shy in to work,by punishing them,if the want to sit around and watch Jeremy Kyle all day |
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| papasmurf | Feb 15 2015, 10:05 AM Post #49 |
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I assume from that Highway, you are suffering from cognitive dissonance, because the governments nasty approach just is not working. |
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| HIGHWAY | Feb 15 2015, 10:07 AM Post #50 |
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Only thing I suffering is the amazement of people who defend the people who can't be bothered to get off there lazy butts,and at least try and get a job |
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| papasmurf | Feb 15 2015, 10:24 AM Post #51 |
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Well I don't defend them at all. Because I know how few of them there are. Not enough for me to get worked up about. http://csp.sagepub.com/content/early/2013/09/26/0261018313501825 In search of ‘intergenerational cultures of worklessness’: Hunting the Yeti and shooting zombies Robert Macdonald Teesside University, UK Tracy Shildrick University of Leeds, UK Andy Furlong Glasgow University, UK Robert MacDonald, Social Futures Institute, School of Social Sciences and Law, Teesside University, Middlesbrough TS1 3BA, England. Email: r.macdonald@tees.ac.uk Abstract The idea of ‘intergenerational cultures of worklessness’ has become influential in UK politics and policy, and been used to explain contemporary worklessness and to justify welfare reforms. Workless parents are said to pass on to their children attitudes and behaviours which inculcate ‘welfare dependency’. In its strongest version, politicians and welfare practitioners talk confidently of ‘three generations of families where no-one has ever worked’; even though no study, bar this one, has investigated whether such families actually exist. Solid evidence for intergenerational cultures of worklessness is elusive so this study tested the idea via interviews with twenty families in Glasgow and Middlesbrough that had been long-term workless. Theories of intergenerational cultures of worklessness feel like ‘zombie arguments’ – resistant to evidence and social scientific efforts to kill them off. Regardless, the findings of this critical case study are offered as a fresh batch of ammunition with which to try to do so. |
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| HIGHWAY | Feb 15 2015, 10:44 AM Post #52 |
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I know you love putting links up on here which are irrelevant to what's being discussed. Why else would you put a link up (again) about a report that were not discussing |
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| papasmurf | Feb 15 2015, 10:53 AM Post #53 |
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The reference I just posted is FULLY relevant to what is being discussed. But because of your cognitive dissonance you cannot see that. |
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| johnofgwent | Feb 15 2015, 10:54 AM Post #54 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Aw FUCK something went tits in the quote system it's switched tigger and my comments round !!!!!! I SAID THIS Yes I can give you what I believe is a sensible suggestion. Go google the start rate of tax for the last decade. Then TIGGER SAID
AND I followed up with Nail. Head. Yup. Got it in one. Alistair Darlings' pissing about thanks to the introduction then removal of the 10p rate was a classic case. Mind you, their 50p rate, and its accompanying extermination of the tax free salary below the 10p 20p and 40p bands showed the politics of envy at its worst. even when Dennis Healey received 98% of Max Bygraves' earnings, Max was still allowed his first what was it £1750 ? or £1450? - I bloody forget now - tax free just like me an just like my wife would get five years later. The fact it would take me the best part of six months to earn the money to consume my tax allowance, whereas Max earned it in six minutes, was not lost on me, but in those days it seemed to me there was a feeling - even if it were a complete falsehood or illusion - that a young lad with brains and talent would go a long way. Success was generally greeted with the thought that "the boy did good" not "what a thieving bastard". But then again that was in the days where success was considered to be within the grasp of those with a bit of determination ... Edited by johnofgwent, Feb 15 2015, 10:58 AM.
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| HIGHWAY | Feb 15 2015, 11:04 AM Post #55 |
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So me where I saiid generations of the same family were unemployed,after all that's what your link was about |
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| johnofgwent | Feb 15 2015, 11:09 AM Post #56 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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ok that's it I've had it with you two
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| Affa | Feb 15 2015, 02:46 PM Post #57 |
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Cameron has put more willing workers on the unemployment register, and Labour did more to get people off it and into paying employment than ha IDS. The 'workshy' do not change when there is a change in government ..... all that has happened is that they have shifted from one category to another ........ Tory modus operandi. |
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| Affa | Feb 15 2015, 02:51 PM Post #58 |
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Would you employ one of these 'lazy' work dodgers when there are millions more willing to sign on with you that have the work ethic? Get real ....... get a brain. |
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| RJD | Feb 15 2015, 04:28 PM Post #59 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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I am sure you agree that all must pay taxes according to the the Laws and Regulations? Are are you now claiming that those over 65 should have all such taxes waved, if so I will have a lot more to spend in future. |
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| papasmurf | Feb 15 2015, 04:32 PM Post #60 |
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No, I am merely commenting 4% gross given the lack of access and the time required is a poor return. |
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| RJD | Feb 15 2015, 04:38 PM Post #61 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Poor compared with? You might find better returns with company bonds, I just bought some that provide 6.25%, but there is some risk. My point is that the State should not be going out of it's way to subsidise such investments with Taxpayers money in order to purchase votes. Bit like paying out 18% financing costs on PFI projects in preferred constituencies is it not. |
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| HIGHWAY | Feb 15 2015, 04:38 PM Post #62 |
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I wouldn't employ them but not would I give them money to sit about doing nothing all day |
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| Affa | Feb 15 2015, 05:08 PM Post #63 |
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Taxes are ostensibly required for the State to provide the services to society, the means (infrastructure) for both society and business to function, and the security of both. The method used for raising these necessary taxes is in essence based on the principle that those that prosper most (both people and business) from these provisions also make a relative contribution towards the cost of these provisions. That principle has been lost over the last four decades. The 'relativity' aspect has not been maintained, and now we have the State saying it cannot afford the upkeep at the level we once determined was needed. Business, the most wealthy section of society, contributes less (as a proportion of the wealth it earns) than those that business exists to serve, society at large. The Rich get richer, the poor are made poorer ......... and it needn't be so. The rich can continue to get richer, but the poorer need not be made poorer in order for the system to function perfectly - perfection is where everyone is given the opportunity to prosper. |
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| johnofgwent | Feb 15 2015, 05:15 PM Post #64 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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But the state has always "subsidised" people who loan it money ... |
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| papasmurf | Feb 15 2015, 05:36 PM Post #65 |
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Just poor for tying money up for the length of time required. |
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| papasmurf | Feb 15 2015, 05:38 PM Post #66 |
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If that is the same one as I looked at recently, there is more than "some" risk. |
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| Rich | Feb 15 2015, 05:43 PM Post #67 |
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Regardless of who is in office, would you agree that those that are able to should be working. PS, The forum is very slow to respond tonight, I have no problems with other forums......? Edited by Rich, Feb 15 2015, 05:44 PM.
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| papasmurf | Feb 15 2015, 05:45 PM Post #68 |
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I always have been of that opinion. |
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| johnofgwent | Feb 15 2015, 06:04 PM Post #69 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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I have always held that view too. However, it has been my overwhelming experience, strengthened on each occasion that I was handed one of the total of seven P45's that I now have in my collection dating all the way back to 1982, that overwhelmingly the blame for the "lack of working" lies not with the wannabe worker who I believe does in fact want to be a worker and consequently a taker home of a pay packet, but with various governments who have been of the opinion that "it is a bloody good thing to have large numbers of our indigenous population standing round with nothing to do" or "it is a bloody good thing to open the gates blow the portcullisses off the hinges and destroy the winding gear that raises the drawbridges because that way the country gets flooded with people "willing to work for lots less because that paltry sum is still lots more than they get on the other side of the drawbridge" and in addition "their soon to be bosses have promised loads of money into party funds to help get me re-elected" I am reluctant to call the workless workshy when the jobcentres are filled with multiple adverts from so called recruitment agencies that give the illusion that one actual job is twenty three (as was the case in April 2012 courtesy of three slightly different adverts put in by seven different recruitment agencies, an internal ad from the jobcentre and an ad from the company itself). You think I jest or lie. The job was for a database administrator with a company then called The Sword Group and I applied for it three times not realising it was the same job I had applied for. Edited by johnofgwent, Feb 15 2015, 06:06 PM.
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| papasmurf | Feb 15 2015, 06:22 PM Post #70 |
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That seems to be the case where I live as well. Do an internet job search and the same job seems to be advertised by between 20 and even 50 different agencies. |
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| Lewis | Feb 15 2015, 07:03 PM Post #71 |
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What right wing bullshite. The vast majority of those who are unfortunate to be unemployed want to work. The Tories don't want them to of course, as if they did find jobs, the incompetents will have nobody to scapegoat. |
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| C-too | Feb 15 2015, 07:10 PM Post #72 |
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He misses the people who are desperate to find a job and can't find one. |
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| HIGHWAY | Feb 15 2015, 07:28 PM Post #73 |
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Granted,I only know about half a dozen people who have never worked,who have no intension of working. Who would employ people in there 50s who have never worked,because I wouldn't |
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| HIGHWAY | Feb 15 2015, 07:29 PM Post #74 |
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I know there's people who want to work,just like I know there's people who will never work for the simple reason is that there lazy |
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| Tigger | Feb 15 2015, 08:30 PM Post #75 |
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I've personally never met anyone who'd never had a job or had no intention of ever working, I've seen scores of lazy fookers with jobs though. I've heard second hand of these people that do just about everything possible to avoid work, so the question is are they just made up or so exceptionally rare that only the Daily Mail can find them? |
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| HIGHWAY | Feb 15 2015, 08:32 PM Post #76 |
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2 I went to school with and 4 who come into my work, no DM story's actual fact |
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| papasmurf | Feb 15 2015, 08:37 PM Post #77 |
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I have worked in several places where the old joke:- "How many people work here?" "About half of them." applies. |
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| Tigger | Feb 15 2015, 08:37 PM Post #78 |
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So that's two people out of a workforce of thirty plus million. Any advances on that folks? No wonder the economy is stuffed! |
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| Tigger | Feb 15 2015, 08:42 PM Post #79 |
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And the other type who are expert at giving the impression they are working, some folks I've seen and had the misfortune to "work" alongside put so much effort into the avoidance of work I'd often wonder if it would just have been easier to get on with what you were supposed to be doing anyway!
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| Rich | Feb 15 2015, 08:43 PM Post #80 |
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Why do you suppose that is? |
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ok that's it I've had it with you two

2:31 PM Jul 11