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| Topic Started: Feb 14 2015, 07:48 AM (910 Views) | |
| RJD | Feb 14 2015, 07:48 AM Post #1 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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LINK Labour's cry that this Gov. has benefited the rich is just another one of their lies. Not sure whether Labour should be called the "Nasty Party", but that has been taken or the "Dirty Party" for their addiction to dirty tricks or best just the "Liar Party" as that is their standard? They certainly have adopted the spreading of lies to create envy or fear, but they always did as that replaces the need for a coherent economic strategy. |
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| papasmurf | Feb 15 2015, 08:45 PM Post #81 |
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Ahh! The wandering around all day with a clipboard types. |
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| HIGHWAY | Feb 15 2015, 08:58 PM Post #82 |
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You obviously can't count |
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| Tigger | Feb 15 2015, 09:08 PM Post #83 |
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That's why I asked for any advances.......... |
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| Affa | Feb 15 2015, 09:14 PM Post #84 |
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You do realise that in a proper functioning society there are no jobless (the disabled excepted where these are so handicapped as to have no abilities at all - most disabled do have useful abilities btw)? The issue is that there is a dearth of paid work. This is why we have welfare, and not because there are folk who will not work - if there were jobs for all then all would be employed and anyone refusing work denied welfare. I'd intended to explain how this answers your query, but instead require you to ponder on it yourself .... the honesty of it is self evident, and denial of it escapism from what it undoubtedly implies is the real problem we have. |
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| Lewis | Feb 15 2015, 10:21 PM Post #85 |
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I read a report once whereby someone who was supposedly employed made the pretence of looking busy whilst being bone idle. Gave it up as a 'bad job', he found it was harder work trying to look busy, then actually doing the job he should have been doing. |
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| Rich | Feb 15 2015, 10:31 PM Post #86 |
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Once again I would ask you to ask yourself why there are no jobs available, those from Eastern Europe seem to have no problem in finding them. |
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| Rich | Feb 15 2015, 10:32 PM Post #87 |
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Was it an MP? |
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| C-too | Feb 15 2015, 11:36 PM Post #88 |
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Honourable Member
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There are a few different reasons, the point is if they can't get a job then they fall back onto the benefit system. It doesn't mean they are deliberate lazy wasters. |
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| Rich | Feb 15 2015, 11:52 PM Post #89 |
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As with the others you choose to miss the point, why can they not get a job, or to make it easier for you, why is it that those from Eastern Europe can find a job? |
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| C-too | Feb 16 2015, 12:05 AM Post #90 |
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Honourable Member
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Let me make it easier for you, it is up to the employer who s/he employs. Those who fail to get the job fall back on benefits, so lets not label the unemployed as lazy or scroungers. |
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| Rich | Feb 16 2015, 12:46 AM Post #91 |
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Once again, if those that can get the jobs whose first language is not English and will work for peanuts, now, for the last time, why do you think there are no jobs available for our own indigenous populace?....ergo, which particular party caused this anomoly? |
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| HIGHWAY | Feb 16 2015, 07:36 AM Post #92 |
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I never said fall back on to benefits,I was talking about people who have been on benefits for decades,and refuse to work,some on here say that's paper talk,but it's not |
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| RJD | Feb 16 2015, 11:29 AM Post #93 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Because it did or does, does not make it sensible. |
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| RJD | Feb 16 2015, 11:37 AM Post #94 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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True, but one has to ask the question of why there appears to have been a preference for those who are not indigenous English speaking people? Claiming that it is to do with paying less than the NMW is BS. The truth is something to do with work ethics. Yes those that prefer welfare to work are only a small minority, but that does not condone a system which discourages individuals who can from finding work. That is completely immoral and wrongheaded. I find it rather surprising, consider the heat emanating from this subject, that no Politicians or Political Party are demanding a returned to the previous failed system. We need to give this UC system a chance, let it be rolled out then we can judge. |
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| papasmurf | Feb 16 2015, 11:39 AM Post #95 |
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Are you feeling OK? (Genuine concern.) |
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| papasmurf | Feb 16 2015, 11:42 AM Post #96 |
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RJD it will be the next ice age before UC will be rolled out fully:- https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/396237/universal-credit-statistical-first-release-jan-15.pdf 26,940 people were on the Universal Credit caseload, as at 11th December 2014. Of these, 9,300 (or 35 per cent) were in employment and 17,640 (or 65 per cent) were not in employment. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/221422/improving-inwork-outcomes.pdf Once fully rolled out we expect around 11 million individuals to be claiming UC of whom 5 million will be in employment. |
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| RJD | Feb 16 2015, 11:49 AM Post #97 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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My understanding that the pause was designed in as first they wished to gain experience of pilot projects, now they intend to roll it out. However, how long it will take I have no idea, it's the Public Sector after all. Funny how the private sector can roll out new products, across the Planet, which it has to warrant in around 12 months. Reading indicates that DWP staff welcome the changes as these bring necessary simplification, but that might be Gov. propaganda. We will see. Certainly a big improvement on the previous regime. |
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| papasmurf | Feb 16 2015, 11:57 AM Post #98 |
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RJD, I suggest you stop believing IDS's lies and for once actually read those links I quoted, not just the bits I copied and pasted. Universal Credit with someone as absolutely incompetent as Iain Duncan Smith is in charge is never going to be rolled out to 11 million claimants. It is now a crisis situation that needs dealing with NOW. It can be salvaged, but aspects of it like real time updating and a month in arrears payments will have to be scrapped. |
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| RJD | Feb 16 2015, 12:12 PM Post #99 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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It's the Public Sector I do not expect anything other than one cock-up followed by another, but that is not the point it's the moral dimension that concerns me. As for believing you and following your links, well you must be absolutely cuckoo. You blew your credibility years ago and I will no longer waste my time on the tripe you have served up. You cried wolf far too often and made far too many claims that you could not support, the final straw being a link that proved the exact opposite of your claim. No Mr Smurf I do not have enough time to waste with your links, the ones that you avoid reading and attempting to understand, for me you lack credibility, no scientific rigour and you are all heat and no substance. |
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| Steve K | Feb 16 2015, 12:16 PM Post #100 |
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Once and future cynic
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Well let's look at a few examples: Sinclair C5: bankrupted the company Windows Vista: turned the tide of computing firmly away from Microsoft Apple Maps: turned the tide of mobile computing firmly towards the rival Android I could go on, Northern Rock mortgage, Equitable Life Pensions, Herald of Free Enterprise? Maybe you could watch a programme about them on your Betamax recorder drinking some Coca Cola New Coke Private Enterprise takes risks to make those launches that quick, you may wish to take similar risks with the most vulnerable in the UK but you will be in a minority of one. Edited by Steve K, Feb 16 2015, 12:17 PM.
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| papasmurf | Feb 16 2015, 12:35 PM Post #101 |
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They are the DWPs own links RJD, which just do not match up to Ian Duncan Smith's statements. |
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| Deleted User | Feb 16 2015, 01:05 PM Post #102 |
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Rich. There is casual labour , minimum wage work without any kind of job security. Ideal for itinerant young foreigners. Why only a few weeks ago we got rid of a bunch of them when we changed agencies.So not the sort of work that would be helpful to get you a decent flat to rent , mortgage, any kind of future..stuff like that. |
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| RJD | Feb 16 2015, 01:12 PM Post #103 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Then get someone with some credibility to put them up as you have none as far as I am concerned, you wasted far too much of my precious time with your wild geese. |
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| papasmurf | Feb 16 2015, 01:19 PM Post #104 |
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They are the same DWP links no matter who links to them. |
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| C-too | Feb 16 2015, 01:21 PM Post #105 |
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Honourable Member
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If there a is anyone working for peanuts (presumably you mean less than the minimum wage ?) then you are talking illegal employment. PS. As for who caused your claimed anomaly I would suggest the party that signed us up to Europe and the party that dominated parliament before the meltdown. Edited by C-too, Feb 16 2015, 01:25 PM.
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| RJD | Feb 16 2015, 01:33 PM Post #106 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Maybe but if you get C2 or Ranger or one of the others then OK, but not you as you are an abuser. |
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| papasmurf | Feb 16 2015, 01:35 PM Post #107 |
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Pardon? Take that back and apologise. |
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| RJD | Feb 16 2015, 01:35 PM Post #108 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Possibly not, but they are the jobs on offer and as we know a man on the NMW with a partner and two dependent kids under 16 years of age can receive the equivalent of a £25,000 wage. So what is the beef? Is it getting out of bed of a morning or what? |
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| RJD | Feb 16 2015, 01:39 PM Post #109 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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No you have abused my trust that you present informative links that supported your claim, they didn't therefore as far as I am concerned you are a serial abuser. I have told you umpteen times that I will no longer follow anything you offer until such time as I am convinced they might have some merit. I think you have a long way to go. |
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| Deleted User | Feb 16 2015, 01:48 PM Post #110 |
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'We' know nothing of the sort. How does this ' man' claim when he is laid off for a few days/weeks/indefinitely without being told? Also 'as we know' casual labour is not a ' job'. If you havent worked out the 'beef' by now then you must be a ardent Telegraph reader and Tory. |
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| papasmurf | Feb 16 2015, 01:48 PM Post #111 |
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Where are these what would have to be full time (40 hours a week) at £6.50 and hour or £13520 per annum, jobs I also ask how you arrive at £25000, just to help you:- Benefit rates:- https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/382867/proposed_benefit_and_pension_rates_2015_to_2016.pdf Local Housing allowance rates:- https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/local-housing-allowance-rates-january-2015 |
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| RJD | Feb 16 2015, 06:48 PM Post #112 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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>40% of all the new jobs are Full Time. By Law the Employer must pay at least the NMW. I have on a number of occasions presented the calculations which demonstrate that in those circumstances and individual can achieve such a level of total income and that is exactly the point of the reforms which are to ensure he cannot overachieve such through the benefits system. Your myopia is becoming a major bore. |
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| Deleted User | Feb 16 2015, 06:54 PM Post #113 |
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Exactly .< 60% of all jobs are part time. Scandalous eh? |
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| Lewis | Feb 16 2015, 07:00 PM Post #114 |
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Yes his name is Iain Duncan Smith. Just as well he spends most of his time skiving as he is absolutely crap at his so-called day job. |
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| Tigger | Feb 16 2015, 07:05 PM Post #115 |
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Could also have been a member of the lords or even a royal............ |
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| Tigger | Feb 16 2015, 07:12 PM Post #116 |
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Then with all this wonderful job creation perhaps you could explain to us why the majority of those in receipt of housing benefit actually have a job and why millions more receive other lesser state benefits again whilst being gainfully employed? Could it be that the better off might have to lower their sights without these workforce subsidies? Some meat on the bone please! |
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