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Justification for striking?
Topic Started: Aug 5 2015, 06:40 AM (2,911 Views)
RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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How much a newly-qualified tube driver makes per hour, compared to other careers
Career Teacher Firefighter Nurse Policeman Tube driver
£/hr worked 7.6 9.66 11.12 11.2 26.53


Are switch flickers worth3.5x more that Teachers?


How much do Tube Drivers get

I would not use the word earn.

Funny when it is a problem with a monopoly supplier of goods and services that we are angry, outraged and the Usuals scream from the rooftops "it's not fair".
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Pro Veritas
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marybrown
Aug 6 2015, 02:58 PM
Are teacher worth the money?..they appear to be raising a generation of imbeciles..
Says the person who when asked for a Source responded by not supplying a Source.

 ::)

All The Best
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marybrown
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Pro Veritas
Aug 6 2015, 03:03 PM
marybrown
Aug 6 2015, 02:58 PM
Are teacher worth the money?..they appear to be raising a generation of imbeciles..
Says the person who when asked for a Source responded by not supplying a Source.

 ::)

All The Best
Different thread...
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marybrown
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I don't think wikipedia is Jewish..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

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nute
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papasmurf
Aug 6 2015, 10:24 AM
nute
Aug 6 2015, 09:13 AM
What is that supposed to mean?

All a terrorist needs is knowledge, a pair of wire cutters, some small crocodile clips and some short lengths of wire. Just because something hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't. Plus no driver, no guidance for passengers if there is a catsarsetrophy.
I would not travel on any driverless system, I don't even like travelling staircases.
Ok, I'll alert the Danish, Italian and French governments to let them know that the top UK armchair expert on absolutely everything has found a security hole in their transport policy, just in case they hadn't considered the scenario that someone switches off the wall socket for their metro's.

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marybrown
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It would be my worst nightmare sitting in a computer controlled car..

Ooops..just blown a fuse..into that wall we go!!
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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marybrown
Aug 6 2015, 02:58 PM
Are teacher worth the money?..they appear to be raising a generation of imbeciles..
That is another question. Mine was relative to that assumed was the Teacher's Job Description that they were fulfilling.

I note that the Usuals ignore the question as it is difficult for them to answer with any degree of objectivity and honesty.

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marybrown
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My niece is a teacher at one of the most prominent schools here..

She has had pupil's tell her to ''feck off''..tried to hit her..simply because she was asking them to pay attention to her..

It's not a job I would like...
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marybrown
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She said ''I can fight ''clever''..but I can't fight ''stupid''..
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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The Unions are demanding more money, the hiring of even more staff – including for ticket offices that customers no longer use – and a 32 hour, four day week. Can the employer afford to meet those sorts of demands?

No Employee will be asked to work any additional hours above what they do now.

Tube drivers will have at least the same number of weekends off as now and will be able to choose whether they work Night Tube shifts in future.

Are the Usuals actually aware of what is on the table? They claim the strike is not about money, it certainly cannot be about changes in conditions, so what is it "an abuse of power"?


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marybrown
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RJD
Aug 6 2015, 04:08 PM
The Unions are demanding more money, the hiring of even more staff – including for ticket offices that customers no longer use – and a 32 hour, four day week. Can the employer afford to meet those sorts of demands?

No Employee will be asked to work any additional hours above what they do now.

Tube drivers will have at least the same number of weekends off as now and will be able to choose whether they work Night Tube shifts in future.

Are the Usuals actually aware of what is on the table? They claim the strike is not about money, it certainly cannot be about changes in conditions, so what is it "an abuse of power"?


Maybe asking these people to work weekends..are they getting any more pay?..maybe they have been put on a rota for weekends for the same money

I don't know!!

And it is always about the money..honey! 8-)
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Ewill
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marybrown
Aug 6 2015, 03:41 PM
..into that wall we go!!
Moorgate blind tunnel crash was a driver train

(DLR is brill!)
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Ewill
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marybrown
Aug 6 2015, 04:12 PM
RJD
Aug 6 2015, 04:08 PM
The Unions are demanding more money, the hiring of even more staff – including for ticket offices that customers no longer use – and a 32 hour, four day week. Can the employer afford to meet those sorts of demands?

No Employee will be asked to work any additional hours above what they do now.

Tube drivers will have at least the same number of weekends off as now and will be able to choose whether they work Night Tube shifts in future.

Are the Usuals actually aware of what is on the table? They claim the strike is not about money, it certainly cannot be about changes in conditions, so what is it "an abuse of power"?


Maybe asking these people to work weekends..are they getting any more pay?..maybe they have been put on a rota for weekends for the same money

I don't know!!

And it is always about the money..honey! 8-)
Do Supermarkets/retail/hairdressers etc pay more for weekend work?

It's a 24/7 economy , staff rotas cover 7 days -non working rest days can easily be midweek
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marybrown
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Ewill
Aug 6 2015, 04:23 PM
marybrown
Aug 6 2015, 04:12 PM
RJD
Aug 6 2015, 04:08 PM
The Unions are demanding more money, the hiring of even more staff – including for ticket offices that customers no longer use – and a 32 hour, four day week. Can the employer afford to meet those sorts of demands?

No Employee will be asked to work any additional hours above what they do now.

Tube drivers will have at least the same number of weekends off as now and will be able to choose whether they work Night Tube shifts in future.

Are the Usuals actually aware of what is on the table? They claim the strike is not about money, it certainly cannot be about changes in conditions, so what is it "an abuse of power"?


Maybe asking these people to work weekends..are they getting any more pay?..maybe they have been put on a rota for weekends for the same money

I don't know!!

And it is always about the money..honey! 8-)
Do Supermarkets/retail/hairdressers etc pay more for weekend work?

It's a 24/7 economy , staff rotas cover 7 days -non working rest days can easily be midweek
Ah yes..but train drivers think they are something special..a bit old school..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4DqNQ9DMF8
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Ewill
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marybrown
Aug 6 2015, 04:34 PM
Ewill
Aug 6 2015, 04:23 PM
marybrown
Aug 6 2015, 04:12 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepdemanding more money, the hiring of even more staff – including for ticket offices that customers no longer use – and a 32 hour, four day week. Can the employer afford to meet those sorts of demands?

No Employee will be asked to work any additional hours above what they do now.

Tube drivers will have at least the same number of weekends off as now and will be able to choose whether they work Night Tube shifts in future.
Do Supermarkets/retail/hairdressers etc pay more for weekend work?

It's a 24/7 economy , staff rotas cover 7 days -non working rest days can easily be midweek
Ah yes..but train drivers think they are something special..a bit old school..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4DqNQ9DMF8
I quite accept that high speed train drivers need to be skilled , tube drivers are not the same thing at all - they aren't special

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papasmurf
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RJD
Aug 6 2015, 02:43 PM
Train Drivers do not provide additional security.
RJD, just who is going to lead people to safety in an emergency from a driverless tub train? (This is not a trick question.)
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Rich
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papasmurf
Aug 6 2015, 05:05 PM
RJD
Aug 6 2015, 02:43 PM
Train Drivers do not provide additional security.
RJD, just who is going to lead people to safety in an emergency from a driverless tub train? (This is not a trick question.)
And what if the driver was killed in a head on crash, who would lead them to safety then?
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nute
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It's can't be that hard, all the other driverless systems seem to have managed to adequately address safety issues. All the European ones are working to the same safety standards we have to (as they are common across Europe).

Even with the existing tube system a train containing Several hundred passengers has only a single driver, who as Rich points out is just as vulnerable to being killed as anyone else.

Driverless systems, not being vulnerable to driver error, can be run at 50 % greater frequency and have been around since the 80's.
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Pro Veritas
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nute
Aug 7 2015, 06:26 AM
It's can't be that hard, all the other driverless systems seem to have managed to adequately address safety issues.
Could that be because they have, by and large, state owned, funded, and operated systems and see investment as... ...well... ...an investment.

Over here it would be designed, built and maintained by the lowest bidding foreign contractor, and then semi-privatised so as to avoid accountability, and investment is seen as a loss.

All The Best
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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papasmurf
Aug 6 2015, 05:05 PM
RJD
Aug 6 2015, 02:43 PM
Train Drivers do not provide additional security.
RJD, just who is going to lead people to safety in an emergency from a driverless tub train? (This is not a trick question.)
Why do you assume a Driver would? Why do you think a Driver would be best placed to do such after the shock? He may not be alive, he may be injured, he may be incompetent. Surely CCTV, lights, signs and loudspeakers controlled remotely would be better. Neither is this a trick question, think it through, it's the future.

Seems to me that Driverless trains will now be part of LU future's strategy and the Unions are driving this.

I think it is time for many to reflect on the recent reduction in the cost of Robots and their increasing functionality. Driverless trains are not new they have been around for years.

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papasmurf
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RJD
Aug 7 2015, 07:02 AM
Why do you assume a Driver would?
Past disasters and problems RJD, it is also part of the training.
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disgruntled porker
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The people on here who are condemning the tube drivers and calling them greedy are the same people who think such people as solicitors etc are justified in charging massive amounts of money for their services, legitimising it by claiming it's up to the people employing them to pay those rates. The same people who justify massive saleries for CEO's and executives saying that if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. The same people who justify excessive bonuses for bankers, even when they fuck the job up.

In a perfect situation, they should be able to say "fuck it then". Just walk away from the job en bloc. Then see whether the hard done public think they are worth their money.
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Jessamy Bride
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You can attempt to argue black is white.

.......but these guys are getting a surprisingly big wage package.

Its no more difficult a job than loads of other professions.....which aren't as well rewarded.
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disgruntled porker
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Jessamy Bride
Aug 7 2015, 07:47 AM
You can attempt to argue black is white.

.......but these guys are getting a surprisingly big wage package.

Its no more difficult a job than loads of other professions.....which aren't as well rewarded.
Yes, but difficulty and qualifications don't always equate to worth. These guys are the ateries which make it possible for thousands of others to go out and earn their wages etc. Highly qualified or not, highly skilled or not, how much is that job worth to others? I don't think it's fair for a plumber or electician to charge excessively for call outs, but they do, and if the job needs doing, then there is no option. It's not a skilled job to cut someones lawn, but if you want someone to cut it, they charge as much as they can get away with. Only recently, I wanted a chimney breast papering. It would only require 1 roll of paper. The guy I rang wanted £120! £120 for a job that should take a skilled guy an hour tops. The wall was all prepared, ready for the paper hanging. He pointed out that it would take him time to get here and then time to get back home. He lived about 5 miles away. I pointed out that no bugger pays me travelling time to get to a job and back home when finished. He dropped his price to £80. Is he an entreprenneur or a greedy twat? One thing is for sure, his entrepreneurial skills cost him an easy £80. I struggled, (I'm wank at hanging wallpaper), but did it myself.

I thought people on here were all about letting the market decide?
Edited by disgruntled porker, Aug 7 2015, 08:36 AM.
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Rich
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disgruntled porker
Aug 7 2015, 07:27 AM
The people on here who are condemning the tube drivers and calling them greedy are the same people who think such people as solicitors etc are justified in charging massive amounts of money for their services, legitimising it by claiming it's up to the people employing them to pay those rates. The same people who justify massive saleries for CEO's and executives saying that if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. The same people who justify excessive bonuses for bankers, even when they fuck the job up.

In a perfect situation, they should be able to say "fuck it then". Just walk away from the job en bloc. Then see whether the hard done public think they are worth their money.
I cannot believe you have posted such as the above, one thing I will agree with though is yes, let them walk away and let that be confirmation of resignation, I have no doubt that there will be hundreds more willing to take the job despite the training and probably do it for a lot less more, can you not see that by taking uncompromising strike action is just ensuring that the industry will do everything in it's power to make sure the the paying customer is not inconvenienced on a regular basis like this and will only accelerate automation, so, I return to the thread title.......just what is the justification for strike action?..thanks to union barons they will be doing themselves out of a job whilst the baron lives the life of riley and the paying public continue to suffer and the drivers et al lose any little bit of empathy that was remaining.
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disgruntled porker
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Rich
Aug 7 2015, 08:30 AM
disgruntled porker
Aug 7 2015, 07:27 AM
The people on here who are condemning the tube drivers and calling them greedy are the same people who think such people as solicitors etc are justified in charging massive amounts of money for their services, legitimising it by claiming it's up to the people employing them to pay those rates. The same people who justify massive saleries for CEO's and executives saying that if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. The same people who justify excessive bonuses for bankers, even when they fuck the job up.

In a perfect situation, they should be able to say "fuck it then". Just walk away from the job en bloc. Then see whether the hard done public think they are worth their money.
I cannot believe you have posted such as the above, one thing I will agree with though is yes, let them walk away and let that be confirmation of resignation, I have no doubt that there will be hundreds more willing to take the job despite the training and probably do it for a lot less more, can you not see that by taking uncompromising strike action is just ensuring that the industry will do everything in it's power to make sure the the paying customer is not inconvenienced on a regular basis like this and will only accelerate automation, so, I return to the thread title.......just what is the justification for strike action?..thanks to union barons they will be doing themselves out of a job whilst the baron lives the life of riley and the paying public continue to suffer and the drivers et al lose any little bit of empathy that was remaining.
Exactly, but what are the public to do until the new, lower paid drivers are trained up. Unlike some, I would suggest it would take longer than 5 minutes to train up someone who is totally unfamiliar with tube trains and associated working environment.

As to justification. As I see it, their entire working system is being kicked into touch. It's sod all to do with any demands for money. They probably still have one of those rare beasts called a contract of employment. You know, a written agreement between management and workers. As I see it, it's management breaking the existing contract, not the drivers. What would your reaction be if you signed a contract of employment which stated 40 hrs per week, 9 till 5 monday to Friday, because those hours suited you, then management decides you will work a 3 shift system and also weekends, like it or lump it?
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Rich
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disgruntled porker
Aug 7 2015, 08:51 AM
Rich
Aug 7 2015, 08:30 AM
disgruntled porker
Aug 7 2015, 07:27 AM
The people on here who are condemning the tube drivers and calling them greedy are the same people who think such people as solicitors etc are justified in charging massive amounts of money for their services, legitimising it by claiming it's up to the people employing them to pay those rates. The same people who justify massive saleries for CEO's and executives saying that if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. The same people who justify excessive bonuses for bankers, even when they fuck the job up.

In a perfect situation, they should be able to say "fuck it then". Just walk away from the job en bloc. Then see whether the hard done public think they are worth their money.
I cannot believe you have posted such as the above, one thing I will agree with though is yes, let them walk away and let that be confirmation of resignation, I have no doubt that there will be hundreds more willing to take the job despite the training and probably do it for a lot less more, can you not see that by taking uncompromising strike action is just ensuring that the industry will do everything in it's power to make sure the the paying customer is not inconvenienced on a regular basis like this and will only accelerate automation, so, I return to the thread title.......just what is the justification for strike action?..thanks to union barons they will be doing themselves out of a job whilst the baron lives the life of riley and the paying public continue to suffer and the drivers et al lose any little bit of empathy that was remaining.
Exactly, but what are the public to do until the new, lower paid drivers are trained up. Unlike some, I would suggest it would take longer than 5 minutes to train up someone who is totally unfamiliar with tube trains and associated working environment.

As to justification. As I see it, their entire working system is being kicked into touch. It's sod all to do with any demands for money. They probably still have one of those rare beasts called a contract of employment. You know, a written agreement between management and workers. As I see it, it's management breaking the existing contract, not the drivers. What would your reaction be if you signed a contract of employment which stated 40 hrs per week, 9 till 5 monday to Friday, because those hours suited you, then management decides you will work a 3 shift system and also weekends, like it or lump it?
You must give the travelling public more credence, once they realise that this sort of thing may become a regular occurence then they will make alternative arrangements in order to get to work on time, the baron is using the drivers as a tool to get at what is clearly a reasonable management, they are biting the hand that feeds them, namely Joe public who could not give two hoots as long as they get to work on time.....my advice to the drivers is get a new union man/person who is rational.
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ACH1967
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Rich
Aug 7 2015, 09:00 AM
disgruntled porker
Aug 7 2015, 08:51 AM
Rich
Aug 7 2015, 08:30 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Exactly, but what are the public to do until the new, lower paid drivers are trained up. Unlike some, I would suggest it would take longer than 5 minutes to train up someone who is totally unfamiliar with tube trains and associated working environment.

As to justification. As I see it, their entire working system is being kicked into touch. It's sod all to do with any demands for money. They probably still have one of those rare beasts called a contract of employment. You know, a written agreement between management and workers. As I see it, it's management breaking the existing contract, not the drivers. What would your reaction be if you signed a contract of employment which stated 40 hrs per week, 9 till 5 monday to Friday, because those hours suited you, then management decides you will work a 3 shift system and also weekends, like it or lump it?
You must give the travelling public more credence, once they realise that this sort of thing may become a regular occurence then they will make alternative arrangements in order to get to work on time, the baron is using the drivers as a tool to get at what is clearly a reasonable management, they are biting the hand that feeds them, namely Joe public who could not give two hoots as long as they get to work on time.....my advice to the drivers is get a new union man/person who is rational.
What is you opinion regarding this:

"What would your reaction be if you signed a contract of employment which stated 40 hrs per week, 9 till 5 monday to Friday, because those hours suited you, then management decides you will work a 3 shift system and also weekends, like it or lump it?"
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nute
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Pro Veritas
Aug 7 2015, 06:33 AM
nute
Aug 7 2015, 06:26 AM
It's can't be that hard, all the other driverless systems seem to have managed to adequately address safety issues.
Could that be because they have, by and large, state owned, funded, and operated systems and see investment as... ...well... ...an investment.

Over here it would be designed, built and maintained by the lowest bidding foreign contractor, and then semi-privatised so as to avoid accountability, and investment is seen as a loss.

All The Best
The DLR is automated and there have been no issues with that.

I think part of the victoria line is also semi auto.
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Affa
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Intransigence causes disputes to escalate into conflict.

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Rich
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ACH1967
Aug 7 2015, 09:50 AM
Rich
Aug 7 2015, 09:00 AM
disgruntled porker
Aug 7 2015, 08:51 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
You must give the travelling public more credence, once they realise that this sort of thing may become a regular occurence then they will make alternative arrangements in order to get to work on time, the baron is using the drivers as a tool to get at what is clearly a reasonable management, they are biting the hand that feeds them, namely Joe public who could not give two hoots as long as they get to work on time.....my advice to the drivers is get a new union man/person who is rational.
What is you opinion regarding this:

"What would your reaction be if you signed a contract of employment which stated 40 hrs per week, 9 till 5 monday to Friday, because those hours suited you, then management decides you will work a 3 shift system and also weekends, like it or lump it?"
I would find another job.
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Ewill
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Affa
Aug 7 2015, 10:27 AM
Intransigence causes disputes to escalate into conflict.

Yep , I agree

It's about time the tube drivers were summarily fired and the recruitment process made transparent on the open jobs market instead of being Buggin's turn to be ''promoted'' from tannoy wielder to tube driver as at present
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Ewill
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Rich
Aug 7 2015, 10:33 AM
ACH1967
Aug 7 2015, 09:50 AM
Rich
Aug 7 2015, 09:00 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
What is you opinion regarding this:

"What would your reaction be if you signed a contract of employment which stated 40 hrs per week, 9 till 5 monday to Friday, because those hours suited you, then management decides you will work a 3 shift system and also weekends, like it or lump it?"
I would find another job.
Normal people would find other jobs- not so unionised sheep
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Affa
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Ewill
Aug 7 2015, 10:35 AM
Affa
Aug 7 2015, 10:27 AM
Intransigence causes disputes to escalate into conflict.

Yep , I agree

It's about time the tube drivers were summarily fired and the recruitment process made transparent on the open jobs market instead of being Buggin's turn to be ''promoted'' from tannoy wielder to tube driver as at present
How would you deal with the rail operator's intransigence?

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Rich
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Affa
Aug 7 2015, 10:56 AM
Ewill
Aug 7 2015, 10:35 AM
Affa
Aug 7 2015, 10:27 AM
Intransigence causes disputes to escalate into conflict.

Yep , I agree

It's about time the tube drivers were summarily fired and the recruitment process made transparent on the open jobs market instead of being Buggin's turn to be ''promoted'' from tannoy wielder to tube driver as at present
How would you deal with the rail operator's intransigence?

The operator is trying to suit the hours of the people who use and pay to use the tube, they are only asking for drivers to do the same, they are not being asked to work any more hours but merely change them to suit the public and they are being rewarded with more money for the apparent inconvenience of doing so, as far as I am concerned the operator has compromised and offered a decent deal, therefore, if you do not like it then do the other thing, there will be plenty more to take the jobs and I suspect that if you cannot learn to drive a tube train within one week then you must look to your own intelligence and ask yourself why.
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Ewill
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Affa
Aug 7 2015, 10:56 AM
Ewill
Aug 7 2015, 10:35 AM
Affa
Aug 7 2015, 10:27 AM
Intransigence causes disputes to escalate into conflict.

Yep , I agree

It's about time the tube drivers were summarily fired and the recruitment process made transparent on the open jobs market instead of being Buggin's turn to be ''promoted'' from tannoy wielder to tube driver as at present
How would you deal with the rail operator's intransigence?

what intransigence? :nono:

They've agreed (stupidly imp) to a 'secret' recruitment process which bars outside applicants from jobs

They have paid ransoms to tube drivers when demanded so that strikes don't happen in crucial periods(viz Olympics)

As good as unskilled workers are paid at higher tax rates at starting

43 days holiday, free travel for just about anyone who has ever met a tube driver

guaranteed same amount of weekend working and minimal hours , no one working extra time + a pay rise??????????

That's not intransigence, that's bending over backwards to accommodate a highly militant, heavily unionised monopoly
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Ewill
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I suspect that if you cannot learn to drive a tube train within one week then you must look to your own intelligence and ask yourself why. >>

Couldn't agree more
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Affa
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Rich
Aug 7 2015, 11:13 AM
Affa
Aug 7 2015, 10:56 AM
Ewill
Aug 7 2015, 10:35 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
How would you deal with the rail operator's intransigence?

The operator is trying to suit the hours of the people who use and pay to use the tube, they are only asking for drivers to do the same, they are not being asked to work any more hours but merely change them to suit the public and they are being rewarded with more money for the apparent inconvenience of doing so, as far as I am concerned the operator has compromised and offered a decent deal, therefore, if you do not like it then do the other thing, there will be plenty more to take the jobs and I suspect that if you cannot learn to drive a tube train within one week then you must look to your own intelligence and ask yourself why.
Quote:
 
These are our reasons for taking action:

Safety concerns about Night Tube: LU is seeking to introduce Night Tube without meaningful consultation on key aspects of Health & Safety, putting both staff and passengers at risk.

Ticket office closures and staff cuts: these continue and LU has not complied with previous agreements.

Payments for night-working: LU has offered only one-off non-pensionable payments in return for staff implementing and delivering Night Tube and increased night working - for the rest of their working lives in LU.

Significant changes to working practices: LU is disregarding existing agreements and working arrangements, and seeking to make changes without meaningful negotiation. - tssa

This action comes after 18 months of attempting to negotiate with London Underground management. They are very much a last resort.
Intransigence which will cost LU £millions in lost revenue.
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Ewill
Senior Member
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This action comes after 18 months of attempting to negotiate with London Underground management. They are very much a last resort.
Intransigence which will cost LU £millions in lost revenue.>>

Posted like the true union apologist you've always been

It's always ''management'' fault in the eyes of chip laden lefties ,
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Affa
Senior Member
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Ewill
Aug 7 2015, 11:33 AM
This action comes after 18 months of attempting to negotiate with London Underground management. They are very much a last resort.
Intransigence which will cost LU £millions in lost revenue.>>

Posted like the true union apologist you've always been

It's always ''management'' fault in the eyes of chip laden lefties ,
Not at all!
I regard TU militancy as a curse on society.
I also recognise that TU militancy is the result of management's refusal to consulate with and come to agreement with worker representatives before presenting structural changes they wish to implement ..... we get
the the sort of Union that management create - Militants when there is no consultation - Negotiators when there is consultation.

Edited by Affa, Aug 7 2015, 11:45 AM.
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Rich
Senior Member
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Affa
Aug 7 2015, 11:44 AM
Ewill
Aug 7 2015, 11:33 AM
This action comes after 18 months of attempting to negotiate with London Underground management. They are very much a last resort.
Intransigence which will cost LU £millions in lost revenue.>>

Posted like the true union apologist you've always been

It's always ''management'' fault in the eyes of chip laden lefties ,
Not at all!
I regard TU militancy as a curse on society.
I also recognise that TU militancy is the result of management's refusal to consulate with and come to agreement with worker representatives before presenting structural changes they wish to implement ..... we get
the the sort of Union that management create - Militants when there is no consultation - Negotiators when there is consultation.

Are you telling me that for a whole 18 months neither side has met and spoken to each other?
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