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| Justification for striking? | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 5 2015, 06:40 AM (2,909 Views) | |
| RJD | Aug 5 2015, 06:40 AM Post #1 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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How much a newly-qualified tube driver makes per hour, compared to other careers Career Teacher Firefighter Nurse Policeman Tube driver £/hr worked 7.6 9.66 11.12 11.2 26.53 Are switch flickers worth3.5x more that Teachers? How much do Tube Drivers get I would not use the word earn. Funny when it is a problem with a monopoly supplier of goods and services that we are angry, outraged and the Usuals scream from the rooftops "it's not fair". |
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| gee4444 | Aug 8 2015, 11:33 PM Post #161 |
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How long have you been in your current job? |
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| gee4444 | Aug 8 2015, 11:37 PM Post #162 |
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Why didn't those who use the tube to commute not just take the day off. Voluntarily? |
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| Ewill | Aug 9 2015, 01:40 AM Post #163 |
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Senior Member
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Which one? I have three |
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| Ewill | Aug 9 2015, 01:46 AM Post #164 |
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Senior Member
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Retail/catering/entertainment/cultural staff have to get to work to serve customers Bankers/traders can work from home |
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| C-too | Aug 9 2015, 07:00 AM Post #165 |
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Honourable Member
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So Ewill ignores information that does not suit his vociferous attacking mode. Hmm, not very bright of him. |
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| disgruntled porker | Aug 9 2015, 07:39 AM Post #166 |
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Older than most people think I am.
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Macdonalds Poundland Community service. |
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| johnofgwent | Aug 9 2015, 09:11 AM Post #167 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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actually most of the chaos is because the bankers can't work from home ... Edited by johnofgwent, Aug 9 2015, 09:11 AM.
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| johnofgwent | Aug 9 2015, 09:23 AM Post #168 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Where might that be then ? Actually, I know the answer to that NOW (Glasgow, Tyne & Wear and Liverpool) However, until google gave me this link when I thought "are there even any such things" and went looking ... http://www.anglotopia.net/countries/england/britains-other-underground-train-tube-metro-rail-systems-and-networks/ ... I had absolutely no idea any of these even existed. Mind you that's largely because nothing would persuade me to enter any of those shitholes for any reason whatsoever and I rather suspect that if as you claim you've been "enjoying using your oystercard for years" if your employer shut up shop and pissed off to Liverpool you'd be less than impressed too. |
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| Ewill | Aug 9 2015, 09:27 AM Post #169 |
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I've ignored nothing of relevance to the fact that : London tube drivers of a questionable skill levels ,in protected jobs on £50+k a year , on 43 days hols, being given optional w/e working and no increase in hours, plus work bonuses as well as a pay rise, go on strike at the drop of a hat because their union says so. |
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| Ewill | Aug 9 2015, 09:30 AM Post #170 |
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There's nothing nasty about the Glasgow subway |
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| Ewill | Aug 9 2015, 09:32 AM Post #171 |
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| Steve K | Aug 9 2015, 10:00 AM Post #172 |
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Once and future cynic
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Yes you have a) how is the aged system going to be kept safe with such a massive increase in the period of time between inspections? b) what is the job security position of drivers that refuse night shifts over those that take them c) has Boris committed to never ever refer to the night shift pay in any further discussions about how much they are paid. LU made an agreement, dumb one or not, it's less than the moral high ground to seek to unilaterally break it. As was the argument that a tube driver could just walk out of a LU job and into an equivalent elsewhere. Boris wants to operate a monopoly, then hypocritically it wants to complain when the unions act as a monopoly back. There is of course a deal to be had on these issues but every move by LU has been to want a fight instead. Not that the unions have exactly been backward in wanting the fight too. A good first step to solving this dispute would be both sides committing to an independent safety assessment of the proposed working practices. Don't hold your breath. |
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| Pro Veritas | Aug 9 2015, 10:01 AM Post #173 |
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Upstanding Member
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Shhhhh. The truth has no place here. All The Best |
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| Steve K | Aug 9 2015, 10:20 AM Post #174 |
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Once and future cynic
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"The truth has no place here" Well yes seem so with those posts Perhaps neither of you hadn't noticed that so much of the London finance business hubs are all within walking distance of SE main line train stations and the big cats you hate are all self or chauffeur driven. But congratulations for cheering misery vested on the much lower paid workers in shops, back office work etc. So helps to understand your real ideals. |
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| Ewill | Aug 9 2015, 10:30 AM Post #175 |
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London tube is a monopoly , there is no competing underground service-never has been Unions have a stranglehold over workforce recruitment with the ridiculous internal promotions only system they operate , throwing their toys out of the pram when outside recruitment was needed because internal candidates failed to make the grade-the union blamed the assessment process - not the poor performance of candidates Hours worked aren't changing, those working night shifts will be on a £200 per shift supplement during transition, which if someone ''chose'' to work nights only for that year would be some £40k extra money based on 200 shifts (not 100% on shifts worked per year or if nights only possible but it's a potential figure). I've seen a valid argument (imo) for specifically employing drivers for night shifts from the open jobs market. That way the unions should be content and surplus daytime drivers can be ''lost'' through natural wastage. Boris doesn't run the tube - LU has its' own management <<As was the argument that a tube driver could just walk out of a LU job and into an equivalent elsewhere>> Plenty of opportunity for work elsewhere , unless you believe that skills sets are never transferable and it's a valid argument(I don't) for a doleite claiming that as they've previously worked as (say) a koala bear trainer they will refuse to accept anything outside koala bear training London underground offer <<<05 August 2015 Message to London from Nick Brown, Managing Director of London Underground. I am sorry that your journeys this evening and tomorrow will again be disrupted by the unions. We listened to their concerns over work-life balance and put forward an extremely fair, revised offer: •An above-inflation average two per cent salary increase this year and an inflation-proof rise in 2016 and 2017 •Staff on Night Tube lines or stations will be paid £500 once the service is introduced on 12 September •Station staff will receive a £500 bonus in February 2016 for the successful completion of the modernisation of customer service, currently being carried out •Drivers, who already work shifts covering 24 hours, will receive an extra £200 per Night Tube shift during a short transition period, after which they will have the choice whether or not to work Night Tube shifts Drivers will have the same number of weekends off as now and no one will be asked to work more hours than they do today. Everybody will remain entitled to two days off in seven. Annual leave will remain at 43 days for a train driver and 52 days for station staff. The unions rejected this fair offer outright and instead demanded more money, the hiring of even more staff - including for ticket offices that customers no longer use - and a 32-hour, four-day week. Edited by Ewill, Aug 9 2015, 10:36 AM.
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| Steve K | Aug 9 2015, 10:43 AM Post #176 |
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Once and future cynic
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Are you really saying that hours haven't changed? Is 3am working really the same as 3pm to someone with a family? Are you really saying that LU does not report to Boris whose London Authority owns it? It's a monopoly employer and service supplier run for the greater benefit of London plc. It agreed of its own free will to agree a recruitment practice as part of a bigger negotiation it was in the round happy to agree. Now which side is trying to unilaterally tear up an agreement? Because it wants a fight to enhance a certain someone's PM credentials perchance? And which side believes the only safety issue to consider from continuous 66 hour running of aged infrastructure is whether the platforms are policed? Yep have a read of LU's own info on the point |
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| Pro Veritas | Aug 9 2015, 10:52 AM Post #177 |
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Upstanding Member
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My ideals are quite simple. Any and all workers must have the right to collectively withdraw their labour in order to protect standards of safety, and working conditions. Any worker considered so vital that they are asked to forego that right should be compensated with better pay and conditions. My ideals are quite simple. If we need special thresholds for ballots for industrial action by a few hundred workers then those same special thresholds should be applied to the much more important ballots of electing our government. All The Best |
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| gee4444 | Aug 9 2015, 12:37 PM Post #178 |
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In that case, how long have you been in each of the three jobs? I'm curious, what are these three jobs and how many hours do you spend in each per week? |
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| gee4444 | Aug 9 2015, 12:40 PM Post #179 |
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You're seriously equating the inconvenience (NOT misery) caused by the LU strike with the misery caused by the banksters? Oh dear. Edited by gee4444, Aug 9 2015, 12:42 PM.
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| C-too | Aug 9 2015, 05:33 PM Post #180 |
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Honourable Member
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From an earlier post. ---- "Is the ticket office problem the only grievance" ? ---- ---- "No, as per the RMT link I posted earlier there are safety and work/life balance issues". ---- As you make no mention of the points in the above reply to my earlier question, it seems that you have ignored relative information. You appear unable to see beyond what appears to be your emotionally driven anti-union one sided approach. |
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| Ewill | Aug 9 2015, 06:11 PM Post #181 |
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Work/life already covered extensively by me - you have ignored it As for the ticket office staff grievance - I've already covered the unions' non reasons for strike action - only one I forgot is them also wanting a reduction in hours and 4 day week suggest you read what is posted instead of the standard kneejerk reaction of the average lefty when a view they disagree with is posted |
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| C-too | Aug 9 2015, 06:18 PM Post #182 |
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"Standard knee jerk of the average lefti" more avoidance by yourself, try addressing the post. I suggest you address the concerns on health as posted earlier by Steve K. Edited by C-too, Aug 9 2015, 06:19 PM.
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| Rich | Aug 9 2015, 06:26 PM Post #183 |
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Why do you suppose they are, as you so eloquently put it "sxxxholes" do you suppose it might have something to do with the fact that those places are governed by Labour dominated councils? |
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| Rich | Aug 9 2015, 06:28 PM Post #184 |
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Perhaps you could now google and find out if such sxxtholes have suffered strikes as well, I could myself but I just cannot be bothered to do so. |
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| Ewill | Aug 9 2015, 06:39 PM Post #185 |
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I work in the private sector where flexibility is a two way street I've held one job for over 25 years, another for about 7 and the third for about 18 months -each function has date critical outcomes and all PAYE Portfolio careers are not unusual in the private sector - many people have them On average I probably work 50-80 hours a week depending on what needs doing at the time but I don't keep tabs. |
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| Ewill | Aug 9 2015, 06:45 PM Post #186 |
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If they aren't being ordered to work extra hours , have optional w/e working and can opt out of night shifts, are getting pay rises and getting bonuses for those who do switch shifts that's covered any alleged work/life issues As for ''health'' , what specific ''health'' concerns does the average tube driver have apart from tedium? |
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| Steve K | Aug 9 2015, 07:05 PM Post #187 |
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Once and future cynic
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What you're communicating is that you don't think LU should have agreed the current driver arrangements in the first place so they should act as total shits and renege on them Nice A deal is a deal, a promise breaker is a shit. End of. Edited by Steve K, Aug 9 2015, 07:08 PM.
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| Ewill | Aug 9 2015, 07:47 PM Post #188 |
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I wouldn't call anyone offering me a pay rise, bonuses , opt out of unwanted shifts, guaranteed hours and a protected job a total sh1t I'd say thanks very much But there again I work in the private sector where the customer is king :worthy: |
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| Rich | Aug 9 2015, 07:57 PM Post #189 |
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As I said earlier, now more than ever, automation of tube trains will be pushed VERY high up the agenda, I cannot stress enough that greed and non compromise will end up in tears for the employees, to anger the very people that rely on you getting them to work in order that you too can be paid is sheer madness. Do not expect sympathy from the paying public and you will not be disappointed when the inevitability of automation laughs in your face as you collect your redundancy cards. |
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| Steve K | Aug 9 2015, 08:13 PM Post #190 |
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Once and future cynic
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But what you would say as a third party is immaterial. A deal between two parties is a deal unless both agree to change it. And my experience of private sector was it really wasn't clever to be known as someone who unilaterally reneges on a deal. Even if you'd made a bad deal. |
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| gee4444 | Aug 9 2015, 08:40 PM Post #191 |
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Jobs doing what exactly? Your reply was pretty vague in that respect. I apologise for prying into your life - tell me to feck off if you like - I won't be offended. I ask only as I've learned it's best not to make assumptions about posters on here before challenging their opinions. |
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| Tigger | Aug 9 2015, 09:05 PM Post #192 |
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Oh good! We can clear the City and turn in into a habitable and affordable area again because the parasites can stay at home and do their jobs! And of course you inadvertently prove my point that train drivers do an essential job without which London grinds to a halt. |
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| Tigger | Aug 9 2015, 09:08 PM Post #193 |
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What a shame your forget to shoehorn in immigrants! Saving that one for later perhaps? |
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| nute | Aug 9 2015, 09:38 PM Post #194 |
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Although that leads to the problem, too many people regard the state as their servant to the point where they no longer need to take responsibility for their own wellbeing. Not referring to you here but each individual needs to be responsible for his own life and actions, only when he is unable to do so for whatever reason is the state a servant in providing what the individual cannot. Edited by nute, Aug 9 2015, 09:49 PM.
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| Tytoalba | Aug 9 2015, 10:00 PM Post #195 |
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Not just bankers, but everyone else from office cleaners, shop workers, fast food staff, street cleaners nurses and carers and every other job you can think of, most I would suggest earning much less than the tube drivers . Your view of London bears no similarity to reality. |
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| Tigger | Aug 9 2015, 10:10 PM Post #196 |
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And here we have yet another one who has failed to see how important train drivers are! And you can probably add to that list the plebs who supply you with wholesome water and those who empty your bins, menial jobs, which is of course what you are implying that train drivers are doing are often the services that underpin our civilisation, we only miss them when they are not there. Got that now?
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| Rich | Aug 9 2015, 10:14 PM Post #197 |
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And who do you think would inhabit those buildings, Calais might give you a clue. |
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| Rich | Aug 9 2015, 10:17 PM Post #198 |
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I will also comment that doctors and nurses, firemen and soldiers do an essential job, as do cleaners, dustmen etc etc, the only exception I would make is an MP. |
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| Tigger | Aug 9 2015, 10:20 PM Post #199 |
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Is this a very poor attempt at linking immigration with striking train drivers? Two birds with one stone and all that?
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| Tigger | Aug 9 2015, 10:25 PM Post #200 |
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Are we supposed to be impressed or just feel sorry for you? There is more to life than work, it's a shame some fail to understand that........... |
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