| Welcome to Uk Debate Mk 2, the UK's liveliest political and social debate site. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Justification for striking? | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Aug 5 2015, 06:40 AM (2,907 Views) | |
| RJD | Aug 5 2015, 06:40 AM Post #1 |
|
Prudence and Thrift
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
How much a newly-qualified tube driver makes per hour, compared to other careers Career Teacher Firefighter Nurse Policeman Tube driver £/hr worked 7.6 9.66 11.12 11.2 26.53 Are switch flickers worth3.5x more that Teachers? How much do Tube Drivers get I would not use the word earn. Funny when it is a problem with a monopoly supplier of goods and services that we are angry, outraged and the Usuals scream from the rooftops "it's not fair". |
![]() |
|
| Replies: | |
|---|---|
| disgruntled porker | Aug 11 2015, 08:42 AM Post #241 |
|
Older than most people think I am.
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
There are a lot of southern types moving oop north to take advantage of the cheaper living costs, and most I have met are unsociable sods who are so far up themselves they have all on to pass the time of day. My last neighbour was one such person. She couldn't believe how much more sociable people up here were; people that would actually do their neighbour even a small favour. Perhaps my experience of this is limited, but it is what I have found. |
![]() |
|
| Ewill | Aug 11 2015, 09:04 AM Post #242 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
|
![]() |
|
| Ewill | Aug 11 2015, 09:13 AM Post #243 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
She couldn't believe how much more ![]() How's that for stereotyping?
|
![]() |
|
| Ewill | Aug 11 2015, 09:21 AM Post #244 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
<<Ex foxhunter?>> IMO the ONLY good thing the previous Labour government did was to pass the Hunting Act 2004 They deserve credit for that |
![]() |
|
| disgruntled porker | Aug 11 2015, 09:36 AM Post #245 |
|
Older than most people think I am.
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Or possibly "not giving a fuck, or giving a fuck" for someone other than yourself. |
![]() |
|
| Steve K | Aug 11 2015, 10:11 AM Post #246 |
|
Once and future cynic
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Are southerners (well lets be honest south easterners) more insular than northerners? Well yes in my experience they are. I've always put that down to the increased population density here. As a result people value their own space more. Two of my relatives that moved North have commented that Northeners are very friendly - to other Northeners Are we more selfish in the SE? Not that I've seen. Wherever I've lived here people will happily do favours for neighbours. I don't see our regional charities closing down But if you want idiot stereotypes remember that wire is said to have been invented by two Yorkshiremen . . . . .fighting over a penny
|
![]() |
|
| ACH1967 | Aug 11 2015, 11:56 AM Post #247 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I bet we can guess who invented the monofilament |
![]() |
|
| Affa | Aug 11 2015, 12:44 PM Post #248 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
As was but is gradually changing, northerners are more sociable, enjoy the company of others, and like to party - have a good time. southerners are much more materialistic, careful with money, and investments. |
![]() |
|
| Steve K | Aug 11 2015, 12:51 PM Post #249 |
|
Once and future cynic
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Do you think that is because - Southern culture breeds such or - Such people tend to move to the South? or even both equally? |
![]() |
|
| Affa | Aug 11 2015, 01:14 PM Post #250 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Neither! One of the reasons for change is 'job insecurity'. It was once thought that a job, a career was for life, people believed there would always be 'next week', a pay packet. Northerners didn't worry so much about tomorrow,Southerners paid much more attention to wealth, it is how they tend to judge people 'whether they are wealthy or not', it's their social standing they see as important to demeanour. Northerners don't need to feel good about themselves, they just seek to feel good, to enjoy life. A cultural difference I that in some ways identifies the political divide too. But as I say, it is changing at both ends ...... I see southerners parting the w/e away, and northerners staying in, taking care of tomorrow. |
![]() |
|
| Ewill | Aug 11 2015, 01:17 PM Post #251 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I've often found it very disconcerting when in the north , enjoying a private conversation over a drink/meal with a friend or two to have a usually sober a.n. other with a northern accent to take it upon themselves to pull up a chair and try to butt in totally uninvited. It's not a one off thing either and that's not 'just being sociable' , it's impolite and plain rude (last time some nosey northerner tried this on me was about three weeks ago in Harrogate) |
![]() |
|
| Affa | Aug 11 2015, 01:34 PM Post #252 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
It was a compliment to you .. the intruder regarded you as someone worthy of their time, and interest. |
![]() |
|
| Steve K | Aug 11 2015, 01:40 PM Post #253 |
|
Once and future cynic
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Ta both ^ |
![]() |
|
| marybrown | Aug 11 2015, 02:07 PM Post #254 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Should get the asylum seekers on it..I'm sure they would be ecstatic..with only 6 weeks training and earning 50 grand... |
![]() |
|
| C-too | Aug 11 2015, 03:24 PM Post #255 |
|
Honourable Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Despite your claim, you have still sought to defend Thatcher's dismissal of and damage to millions of people. It seems to me that you say the 'right things' but behave differently. |
![]() |
|
| gee4444 | Aug 11 2015, 06:40 PM Post #256 |
|
Regular Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I wasn't assuming, I was concluding. Why do I have no idea 'how the frequency with which shorter term employment has changed'? I'm sure you do enjoy your long term job. Just felt it needed highlighting that in admitting as much you have, by your own words, declared yourself as abnormal. Well done with the voluntary work, very commendable. What you 'do' to your horses is your business. Now back to the point in hand. As PV mentioned earlier, the right to withhold ones labour is usually the only barganing tool most employees have. This inevitably causes disruption. There wouldn't be much point to it otherwise would there? Vilifying all strikers as inconsiderate selfish bastards simply highlights the same characteristics of your own personality - in my opinion. You claim their job is so simple a feckless numpty could do it. Maybe they could, but I've never driven a tube train so I've no idea. Have you driven a tube train? I'll repeat again. Why don't all those workers who are going to be so inconvenienced simply take the day off work? The world won't stop if they do and I'm sure they'd be thankful of some leisure time. What climate exactly have the unions manufactured. It's clear to me the opposite is the truth. Unions are treated worse than criminals if they dare use the collective mass of their members. The government, the press, the news and interviews of cherry picked selfish individuals are forced upon us highlighting how terrible life is because, for instance, the tube isn't operating for one day. Get a fecking grip! |
![]() |
|
| Ewill | Aug 11 2015, 07:19 PM Post #257 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
<<right to withhold ones labour is usually the only barganing tool most employees have>> Unionised , not ''most'' <<I've never driven a tube train so I've no idea. Have you driven a tube train?>> Unless you are in the union there's no chance of it, the unions have a stranglehold over recruitment and ''promotion'' within the tube <<Why don't all those workers who are going to be so inconvenienced simply take the day off work?>> Why should 4 million commuters take holiday because tube drivers on £50k a year have chosen to down tools having rejected guaranteed hours, pay rise,bonuses,£200 extras for every night shifts, opt out of night shifts, no extra w/e working ? Wouldn't be an issue for LU drivers-they get 43 days' hols a year << The government, the press, the news and interviews of cherry picked selfish individuals are forced upon us highlighting how terrible life is because, for instance, the tube isn't operating for one day. Get a fecking grip! >> New strikes just announced - it's not 'one'' day - it's four days in a month ie 20% of a 20 working day month |
![]() |
|
| gee4444 | Aug 11 2015, 08:35 PM Post #258 |
|
Regular Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Non unionised members have just as much right to withhold their labour. So, no, you haven't driven a tube train. A stranglehold? A strange description. Did your application to become a tube driver get rejected? You seem quite bitter toward their Union. Or is it just a generalised organisation of the workforce that upsets you? Why shouldn't they have a day off. They might enjoy it. Brilliant, they can have 4 days off a month.
|
![]() |
|
| Tigger | Aug 11 2015, 09:37 PM Post #259 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I made no firm friends when I lived in London as I found most people superficial and self obsessed, your "friendship" was based on your fiscal usefulness or if they thought they could gain something else from associating with you, sadly you end up acting the same as you'll get burnt if you don't. Morals of a stoat as well, we lost count of the number of couples who broke up because they'd apparently found someone better. All in my opinion of course! |
![]() |
|
| Tigger | Aug 11 2015, 09:39 PM Post #260 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Looks like it was a wasted effort though, the Southern softy was to busy being self important.
|
![]() |
|
| Tigger | Aug 11 2015, 09:47 PM Post #261 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Whilst it is true that just about anyone could drive a train after some basic instruction there are other things to think about to ensure safety, folks who daydream or lack the ability to concentrate for long periods and are easily distracted are potentially lethal when put in charge of a train, applicants are put through numerous psychological tests to weed out the above types before they get anywhere near a train. Our new friend will be telling us later on it's a piece of piss to pilot a Saturn 5, you just light the thing up and enjoy the ride. |
![]() |
|
| Tytoalba | Aug 11 2015, 10:00 PM Post #262 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
One is achievable ,but how do you achieve the other? Your not comparing like with like anyway.. |
![]() |
|
| Steve K | Aug 11 2015, 10:03 PM Post #263 |
|
Once and future cynic
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Can you be a bit clearer please on what you are challenging |
![]() |
|
| Ewill | Aug 11 2015, 10:15 PM Post #264 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Your post and this quote epitomises the selfishness of lefties who have no thought of anyone outside their own sheep like mindset Many of those ,who tube drivers are inflicting misery on, have major responsibilities and ''must'' get to work whatever barriers unions put in their way Nurses, Doctors, Dentists, Carers, Emergency services, vets, zoo keepers, animal sanctuary staff, catering staff, prison staff etc etc all have to get to work- or suffering can result |
![]() |
|
| Tigger | Aug 11 2015, 10:22 PM Post #265 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Oh the irony!
|
![]() |
|
| Rich | Aug 11 2015, 11:06 PM Post #266 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
More importantly, they are the reason for a tube drivers existence and ultimately the wage payers, do not bite the hand that feeds you. |
![]() |
|
| disgruntled porker | Aug 12 2015, 11:03 AM Post #267 |
|
Older than most people think I am.
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
So the workers should stand eggs under their cap? If your boss suddenly changed your agreed working patterns and they didn't suit you, would you just quietly accept the situation so as not to bite the hand that feeds you? That's back to the Victorian mills scenario. It's amazing how the tube drivers are now being told to have a social concience and think about the people it will affect, by those who have none themselves. I don't mean you personally Rich. |
![]() |
|
| Mr Pat | Aug 12 2015, 11:38 AM Post #268 |
|
Regular Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I from the south. And in my opinion and experience, Northerners are much more social, joyful, helpful and down to earth than us southerners. Definitely. The southerners are the stereotype of 'reserved' English, where the Northerners are quite the opposite. Edited by Mr Pat, Aug 12 2015, 11:39 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Ewill | Aug 12 2015, 01:08 PM Post #269 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
So the workers should stand eggs under their cap?>> Never heard this expression-what does it mean? <<If your boss suddenly changed your agreed working patterns and they didn't suit you,>> I'd leave a get a different job |
![]() |
|
| marybrown | Aug 12 2015, 01:27 PM Post #270 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
It's not a strike..it is anarchy...bought our capital city to it's knees..millions could not get to work.. I'm a bit of a Thatcherite..bring in other tube drivers..then their strike will be useless.. We won't care.... And sack them... Edited by marybrown, Aug 12 2015, 01:36 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Alberich | Aug 12 2015, 02:49 PM Post #271 |
|
Alberich
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I think the drivers would do well to consider the fact that they are not really needed on the underground. Driverless trains operate in other cities without any trouble at all. The day will come; and these pointless, thoughtless and greedy strikes will make that day come quicker. Which won't be a bad thing. |
![]() |
|
| Tytoalba | Aug 12 2015, 07:35 PM Post #272 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The balloting system for strikers, and the election of a governments |
![]() |
|
| Pro Veritas | Aug 12 2015, 07:48 PM Post #273 |
|
Upstanding Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
You still haven't said which you think is achievable and which isn't; nor why. All The Best |
![]() |
|
| gee4444 | Aug 12 2015, 07:57 PM Post #274 |
|
Regular Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
No, it attempts to highlight your brainwashed state. Obviously without success. I'll try and be more subtle in the future. You talk about sheep like mindsets without realising you're one of the biggest sheep in the pen! Remarkable. Misery? You must have lived a pampered life if your idea of misery being held up due to transport issues. Like I said twice earlier, simply take the day off and enjoy the spare time. Seems you are incapable of grasping this concept. Unions today only put barriers in the way of those who seek to exploit them and their members. Don't worry though, the Tories are about to wipe out decades of hard fought for workers rights in the next 5 years. You must be overcome with arrogant joy. Nurses, Doctors, Dentists, Carers, Emergency services never needed to strike in isolation. Other more powerful unions would use their influence to negotiate on their behalf as it was understood those in such professions would cause some real misery (not your faux misery) if they were to strike. A quick search provided one example: http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/16/newsid_2514000/2514195.stm Your rantings against unions goes against the innate belief most people have to look out for others and to work together. You recognise strength comes from unity and will throw every insult possible to denegrate such cooperation. It's only natural, your types prefer to manipulate and exploit individuals - it's much easier. |
![]() |
|
| gee4444 | Aug 12 2015, 07:58 PM Post #275 |
|
Regular Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
FFS
|
![]() |
|
| Tigger | Aug 12 2015, 09:30 PM Post #276 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Did a Pole give you a funny look at the pea factory today Mary? |
![]() |
|
| Tytoalba | Aug 12 2015, 10:05 PM Post #277 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The elected government can write the rules on balloting for a strike,but how do you elect a working government by those same rules?. Different intents, different outcomes. Strike votes are one of two options, elections are a myriad of different candidates and parties, a multiple of options. The best you can do is proportional representation, but that doesn't seem to work for good governance. and is always rejected by the main parties. Governments are usually elected by the votes of a big majority of eligible voters ,strikes are b eing called on just a tiny minority of those eligible to vote. |
![]() |
|
| Ewill | Aug 12 2015, 10:43 PM Post #278 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
You didn't understand my post , that much is obvious by your standard union sheep-like reply
Edited by Ewill, Aug 12 2015, 10:43 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Steve K | Aug 12 2015, 10:58 PM Post #279 |
|
Once and future cynic
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Well I would prefer AV for electing MPs but that's not the point I would particularly like each and every MP that wants to change the rule on strike ballots to look at their own electoral result and resign if they don't meet the % of eligible criteria they wish to set for others. Better still they just shut it. A majority of those voting is sufficient for the strike BUT REMEMBER such votes have only ever been about absolving the union from being sued for tort for calling a strike. And to Mary's point. Any worker that breaks their contract by striking can be sacked with no compensation for misconduct no matter what the strike vote. The only catch being the employer has to sack them all or none. The RMT etc should be careful that Boris doesn't go for it. Reagan got away with it with his air traffic controllers. But as I said earlier, Boris should take act to take the safety issue out of this dispute IF he can get independent assessors to say his LU plan is safe. On the other issues there is always a deal to be had IF both sides want the deal more than a fight. |
![]() |
|
| Rich | Aug 12 2015, 11:35 PM Post #280 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
You may well be right here, but Boris, HAS to be seen to be stronger than an unelected union thug. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
![]() ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community. Learn More · Register for Free |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Politics · Next Topic » |




![]](http://z5.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)




doesn't make it correct

8:31 AM Jul 11