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Affa
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Aug 13 2015, 05:15 AM
Post #281
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- Rich
- Aug 12 2015, 11:35 PM
an unelected union thug.
Partisan convictions makes idiots of otherwise smart people.
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Lewis
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Aug 13 2015, 07:07 AM
Post #282
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- Rich
- Aug 12 2015, 11:35 PM
- Steve K
- Aug 12 2015, 10:58 PM
- Tytoalba
- Aug 12 2015, 10:05 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Well I would prefer AV for electing MPs but that's not the point I would particularly like each and every MP that wants to change the rule on strike ballots to look at their own electoral result and resign if they don't meet the % of eligible criteria they wish to set for others. Better still they just shut it. A majority of those voting is sufficient for the strike BUT REMEMBER such votes have only ever been about absolving the union from being sued for tort for calling a strike. And to Mary's point. Any worker that breaks their contract by striking can be sacked with no compensation for misconduct no matter what the strike vote. The only catch being the employer has to sack them all or none. The RMT etc should be careful that Boris doesn't go for it. Reagan got away with it with his air traffic controllers. But as I said earlier, Boris should take act to take the safety issue out of this dispute IF he can get independent assessors to say his LU plan is safe. On the other issues there is always a deal to be had IF both sides want the deal more than a fight.
You may well be right here, but Boris, HAS to be seen to be stronger than an unelected union thug. Well the Tory thugs who were elected into office by a minority of the people act like Flashman and his cronies, to decent hard working but low paid people.
What about all the pre-election promises they have already broken in their first 100 days of office? Most notable the one about no cuts to tax credits for poorer people.
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C-too
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Aug 13 2015, 07:30 AM
Post #283
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- marybrown
- Aug 12 2015, 01:27 PM
It's not a strike..it is anarchy...bought our capital city to it's knees..millions could not get to work..
I'm a bit of a Thatcherite..bring in other tube drivers..then their strike will be useless..
We won't care....
And sack them... I believe it's the "roster from hell" that's the problem.
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Tytoalba
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Aug 13 2015, 10:11 AM
Post #284
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- Steve K
- Aug 12 2015, 10:58 PM
- Tytoalba
- Aug 12 2015, 10:05 PM
- Pro Veritas
- Aug 12 2015, 07:48 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
The elected government can write the rules on balloting for a strike,but how do you elect a working government by those same rules?. Different intents, different outcomes. Strike votes are one of two options, elections are a myriad of different candidates and parties, a multiple of options. The best you can do is proportional representation, but that doesn't seem to work for good governance. and is always rejected by the main parties. Governments are usually elected by the votes of a big majority of eligible voters ,strikes are b eing called on just a tiny minority of those eligible to vote.
Well I would prefer AV for electing MPs but that's not the point I would particularly like each and every MP that wants to change the rule on strike ballots to look at their own electoral result and resign if they don't meet the % of eligible criteria they wish to set for others. Better still they just shut it. A majority of those voting is sufficient for the strike BUT REMEMBER such votes have only ever been about absolving the union from being sued for tort for calling a strike. And to Mary's point. Any worker that breaks their contract by striking can be sacked with no compensation for misconduct no matter what the strike vote. The only catch being the employer has to sack them all or none. The RMT etc should be careful that Boris doesn't go for it. Reagan got away with it with his air traffic controllers. But as I said earlier, Boris should take act to take the safety issue out of this dispute IF he can get independent assessors to say his LU plan is safe. On the other issues there is always a deal to be had IF both sides want the deal more than a fight. Se elect MPs constituency by constituency, and they are always elected by the first past hte post system , by getting the majority of the votes. The more party supporting MPs are elected if they make in total the majority party , they go to form the Government In theory we do not vote for a party, but for our individual MPs to represent us, and they chose to form the government. Obviously we do vote on party lines but in reality we vote for the individual candidates. Currently the Conservatives have most MJPs so they vote to form the government Seems fair enough to me.{Unless you support an opposition party when we all look to ways to change the system to our advantage}
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Affa
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Aug 13 2015, 10:58 AM
Post #285
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We have a minority government that serves a minority
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C-too
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Aug 13 2015, 01:03 PM
Post #286
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- Tytoalba
- Aug 13 2015, 10:11 AM
- Steve K
- Aug 12 2015, 10:58 PM
- Tytoalba
- Aug 12 2015, 10:05 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Well I would prefer AV for electing MPs but that's not the point I would particularly like each and every MP that wants to change the rule on strike ballots to look at their own electoral result and resign if they don't meet the % of eligible criteria they wish to set for others. Better still they just shut it. A majority of those voting is sufficient for the strike BUT REMEMBER such votes have only ever been about absolving the union from being sued for tort for calling a strike. And to Mary's point. Any worker that breaks their contract by striking can be sacked with no compensation for misconduct no matter what the strike vote. The only catch being the employer has to sack them all or none. The RMT etc should be careful that Boris doesn't go for it. Reagan got away with it with his air traffic controllers. But as I said earlier, Boris should take act to take the safety issue out of this dispute IF he can get independent assessors to say his LU plan is safe. On the other issues there is always a deal to be had IF both sides want the deal more than a fight.
Se elect MPs constituency by constituency, and they are always elected by the first past hte post system , by getting the majority of the votes. The more party supporting MPs are elected if they make in total the majority party , they go to form the Government In theory we do not vote for a party, but for our individual MPs to represent us, and they chose to form the government. Obviously we do vote on party lines but in reality we vote for the individual candidates. Currently the Conservatives have most MJPs so they vote to form the government Seems fair enough to me.{Unless you support an opposition party when we all look to ways to change the system to our advantage} I was of the understanding that a strike ballot had two options, 'those for' and 'those against'. If that system still holds then IMO, if more vote for than against with the non-voters not bothered which outcome is obtained. Then a strike should be legal.
Edited by C-too, Aug 13 2015, 01:04 PM.
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Tytoalba
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Aug 13 2015, 05:51 PM
Post #287
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- C-too
- Aug 13 2015, 01:03 PM
- Tytoalba
- Aug 13 2015, 10:11 AM
- Steve K
- Aug 12 2015, 10:58 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Se elect MPs constituency by constituency, and they are always elected by the first past hte post system , by getting the majority of the votes. The more party supporting MPs are elected if they make in total the majority party , they go to form the Government In theory we do not vote for a party, but for our individual MPs to represent us, and they chose to form the government. Obviously we do vote on party lines but in reality we vote for the individual candidates. Currently the Conservatives have most MJPs so they vote to form the government Seems fair enough to me.{Unless you support an opposition party when we all look to ways to change the system to our advantage}
I was of the understanding that a strike ballot had two options, 'those for' and 'those against'. If that system still holds then IMO, if more vote for than against with the non-voters not bothered which outcome is obtained. Then a strike should be legal. With the right legislation in place the strikes will always be legal. There will be nothing to stop Unions and members from calling for a strike by a ballot of its members. and the intent is that it is called for by a majority eligible to vote. Seems fair to me and stops the vociferous politically motivated greedy few from dictating the agenda. Not all union members support the Union or the politics of the left, and the public and employers need to be protected from the blackmailers.
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Affa
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Aug 13 2015, 05:57 PM
Post #288
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There is no surer example than this of our government victimising labour in order to serve business profits .... and it's depressing that so many working voters actually support this state of affairs. ugh!
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Tytoalba
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Aug 13 2015, 06:10 PM
Post #289
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- Affa
- Aug 13 2015, 05:57 PM
There is no surer example than this of our government victimising labour in order to serve business profits .... and it's depressing that so many working voters actually support this state of affairs. ugh!
Without profit businesses go bust and sack workers. Profit is the name of the game and the reason for their existence. Profit is not a dirty word. The size of the profit depends on what the market will bear, and as for the purchasers Caveat Emptor. I went into a McDonalds today, and was told they employ about 120 people, with 30 0n premises, and the customers were happily paying for what they asked for at the price asked for, and would no doubt have paid more if asked. They are making a big profit. Good coffee BTW.
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Affa
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Aug 13 2015, 06:22 PM
Post #290
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- Tytoalba
- Aug 13 2015, 06:10 PM
Without profit businesses go bust and sack workers. Profit is the name of the game and the reason for their existence. Profit is not a dirty word. The size of the profit depends on what the market will bear, and as for the purchasers Caveat Emptor. I went into a McDonalds today, and was told they employ about 120 people, with 30 0n premises, and the customers were happily paying for what they asked for at the price asked for, and would no doubt have paid more if asked. They are making a big profit. Good coffee BTW. Profit is not a dirty word, GREED is! No employee is going to want the business to fail ....... what happens though is that the owners and some of the management get rich whilst those earning the money struggle on low wages and have their rights removed by government. A very one-sided affair. The decent way is when everybody concerned is rewarded fittingly for the service they provide.
And big bucks executives ought to earn their dosh through enterprise - not cost cutting and short staffing measures. .... oh; and pay taxes.
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gee4444
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Aug 13 2015, 10:05 PM
Post #291
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- Ewill
- Aug 12 2015, 10:43 PM
- gee4444
- Aug 12 2015, 07:57 PM
- Ewill
- Aug 11 2015, 10:15 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
No, it attempts to highlight your brainwashed state. Obviously without success. I'll try and be more subtle in the future. You talk about sheep like mindsets without realising you're one of the biggest sheep in the pen! Remarkable. Misery? You must have lived a pampered life if your idea of misery being held up due to transport issues. Like I said twice earlier, simply take the day off and enjoy the spare time. Seems you are incapable of grasping this concept. Unions today only put barriers in the way of those who seek to exploit them and their members. Don't worry though, the Tories are about to wipe out decades of hard fought for workers rights in the next 5 years. You must be overcome with arrogant joy. Nurses, Doctors, Dentists, Carers, Emergency services never needed to strike in isolation. Other more powerful unions would use their influence to negotiate on their behalf as it was understood those in such professions would cause some real misery (not your faux misery) if they were to strike. A quick search provided one example: http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/16/newsid_2514000/2514195.stmYour rantings against unions goes against the innate belief most people have to look out for others and to work together. You recognise strength comes from unity and will throw every insult possible to denegrate such cooperation. It's only natural, your types prefer to manipulate and exploit individuals - it's much easier.
You didn't understand my post , that much is obvious by your standard union sheep-like reply
Your implication that striking tube drivers cause distress for critical professions was noted. It was ignored for I assumed you were simply being facetious. Were you actually being serious?
I understood your implication all too well, then I dissected it and then finally trashed it. I understand, stating the opposite is your only defence, albiet a feeble one.
Your outstanding inability to recognise the irony of your position is the most depressing point of this exchange so far.
Edited by gee4444, Aug 13 2015, 10:12 PM.
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Tytoalba
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Aug 13 2015, 10:37 PM
Post #292
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- Affa
- Aug 13 2015, 06:22 PM
- Tytoalba
- Aug 13 2015, 06:10 PM
Without profit businesses go bust and sack workers. Profit is the name of the game and the reason for their existence. Profit is not a dirty word. The size of the profit depends on what the market will bear, and as for the purchasers Caveat Emptor. I went into a McDonalds today, and was told they employ about 120 people, with 30 0n premises, and the customers were happily paying for what they asked for at the price asked for, and would no doubt have paid more if asked. They are making a big profit. Good coffee BTW.
Profit is not a dirty word, GREED is! No employee is going to want the business to fail ....... what happens though is that the owners and some of the management get rich whilst those earning the money struggle on low wages and have their rights removed by government. A very one-sided affair. The decent way is when everybody concerned is rewarded fittingly for the service they provide. And big bucks executives ought to earn their dosh through enterprise - not cost cutting and short staffing measures. .... oh; and pay taxes. Its not greed to make big profits. It shows there is a demand for the goods or services , and big profits supplies the means to expand. it has always been a fact that you ask for what the market will stand and the customers are willing to pay . Market forces will decide what is a fair level of cost to the customerr, that being what they are willing to pay. Businesses are NOT charitable institutions. they are there to make a profit from the goods or services they supply. If you don't like the price , or have a moral hang up about the profit margin, simples . Don't buy it and hope to force the price down.
How they run their business is a matter for them, not you. Your not in a position to impose your standards of integrity or morality on others , that is a matter for parliament or the church.
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Tigger
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Aug 13 2015, 10:53 PM
Post #293
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- Tytoalba
- Aug 13 2015, 10:37 PM
How they run their business is a matter for them, not you. Your not in a position to impose your standards of integrity or morality on others , that is a matter for parliament or the church. I'm afraid it is our business Mr Pam Ayres, you see if they are bribing our politicians with slush money and lobbying for legislation that is anti social, let alone playing fast and lose with the tax system, then that is our concern....
And if any person in the established church or indeed Westminster tried to impose their "integrity" or "morality" on me I invite them to take up an offer of sex and travel.........
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Rich
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Aug 13 2015, 10:59 PM
Post #294
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- Tytoalba
- Aug 13 2015, 10:37 PM
- Affa
- Aug 13 2015, 06:22 PM
- Tytoalba
- Aug 13 2015, 06:10 PM
Without profit businesses go bust and sack workers. Profit is the name of the game and the reason for their existence. Profit is not a dirty word. The size of the profit depends on what the market will bear, and as for the purchasers Caveat Emptor. I went into a McDonalds today, and was told they employ about 120 people, with 30 0n premises, and the customers were happily paying for what they asked for at the price asked for, and would no doubt have paid more if asked. They are making a big profit. Good coffee BTW.
Profit is not a dirty word, GREED is! No employee is going to want the business to fail ....... what happens though is that the owners and some of the management get rich whilst those earning the money struggle on low wages and have their rights removed by government. A very one-sided affair. The decent way is when everybody concerned is rewarded fittingly for the service they provide. And big bucks executives ought to earn their dosh through enterprise - not cost cutting and short staffing measures. .... oh; and pay taxes.
Its not greed to make big profits. It shows there is a demand for the goods or services , and big profits supplies the means to expand. it has always been a fact that you ask for what the market will stand and the customers are willing to pay . Market forces will decide what is a fair level of cost to the customerr, that being what they are willing to pay. Businesses are NOT charitable institutions. they are there to make a profit from the goods or services they supply. If you don't like the price , or have a moral hang up about the profit margin, simples . Don't buy it and hope to force the price down. How they run their business is a matter for them, not you. Your not in a position to impose your standards of integrity or morality on others , that is a matter for parliament or the church. It hardly behoves politicians or the church for that matter to impose a set of morals or a standard of integrity that they themselves choose to ignore on the people that look to them to set good examples, those two hypocritical bodies are why we are where we now are...........as with your very own offspring, NEVER ask them to do something that you are not prepared to do yourself.
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Tytoalba
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Aug 14 2015, 10:11 AM
Post #295
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- Rich
- Aug 13 2015, 10:59 PM
- Tytoalba
- Aug 13 2015, 10:37 PM
- Affa
- Aug 13 2015, 06:22 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Its not greed to make big profits. It shows there is a demand for the goods or services , and big profits supplies the means to expand. it has always been a fact that you ask for what the market will stand and the customers are willing to pay . Market forces will decide what is a fair level of cost to the customerr, that being what they are willing to pay. Businesses are NOT charitable institutions. they are there to make a profit from the goods or services they supply. If you don't like the price , or have a moral hang up about the profit margin, simples . Don't buy it and hope to force the price down. How they run their business is a matter for them, not you. Your not in a position to impose your standards of integrity or morality on others , that is a matter for parliament or the church.
It hardly behoves politicians or the church for that matter to impose a set of morals or a standard of integrity that they themselves choose to ignore on the people that look to them to set good examples, those two hypocritical bodies are why we are where we now are...........as with your very own offspring, NEVER ask them to do something that you are not prepared to do yourself. We can only be true to ourselves Rich, practice our own standards of honesty and morality, for we are not in a position to control the standards of others. Shakespeare put it well with his words"" "This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man ". The Jesuits said "Give me the child and I will give you the man" so I assume that both you and I had the right upbringing, and our morality, integrity and principles ingrained in us, and hopefully passed down to our own. I suppose that when you trust people, believe that most are of good intent to others then you will not hold the jaundiced views that some on here hold about their fellow man.
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Tigger
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Aug 14 2015, 08:44 PM
Post #296
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- Tytoalba
- Aug 14 2015, 10:11 AM
We can only be true to ourselves Rich, practice our own standards of honesty and morality, for we are not in a position to control the standards of others. Have you not been correctly reading the dosage on your bottle of Ritalin?
A few posts ago you made the claim that the church and government had a certain responsibility for moral behaviour!
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disgruntled porker
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Aug 15 2015, 02:48 AM
Post #297
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Older than most people think I am.
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- Tytoalba
- Aug 13 2015, 10:37 PM
- Affa
- Aug 13 2015, 06:22 PM
- Tytoalba
- Aug 13 2015, 06:10 PM
Without profit businesses go bust and sack workers. Profit is the name of the game and the reason for their existence. Profit is not a dirty word. The size of the profit depends on what the market will bear, and as for the purchasers Caveat Emptor. I went into a McDonalds today, and was told they employ about 120 people, with 30 0n premises, and the customers were happily paying for what they asked for at the price asked for, and would no doubt have paid more if asked. They are making a big profit. Good coffee BTW.
Profit is not a dirty word, GREED is! No employee is going to want the business to fail ....... what happens though is that the owners and some of the management get rich whilst those earning the money struggle on low wages and have their rights removed by government. A very one-sided affair. The decent way is when everybody concerned is rewarded fittingly for the service they provide. And big bucks executives ought to earn their dosh through enterprise - not cost cutting and short staffing measures. .... oh; and pay taxes.
Its not greed to make big profits. It shows there is a demand for the goods or services , and big profits supplies the means to expand. it has always been a fact that you ask for what the market will stand and the customers are willing to pay . Market forces will decide what is a fair level of cost to the customerr, that being what they are willing to pay. Businesses are NOT charitable institutions. they are there to make a profit from the goods or services they supply. If you don't like the price , or have a moral hang up about the profit margin, simples . Don't buy it and hope to force the price down. How they run their business is a matter for them, not you. Your not in a position to impose your standards of integrity or morality on others , that is a matter for parliament or the church. So let me get this right. Companies should be able to charge whatever they like and if the customer thinks the price is too high, then don't buy it? Good idea. So producers of food and utilities such as gas, electricity and water should be allowed to double/treble their prices to make bigger profits? Could you get by without any of these? Would it be possible for us all to withdraw our patronage in order to get them to drop prices? Fine for those who could afford to pay higher prices as an option. What about those who would find it impossible to pay higher prices? For them there is no option. So is your attitude to these people "tough titty"?
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Tytoalba
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Aug 15 2015, 11:38 AM
Post #298
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- disgruntled porker
- Aug 15 2015, 02:48 AM
- Tytoalba
- Aug 13 2015, 10:37 PM
- Affa
- Aug 13 2015, 06:22 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Its not greed to make big profits. It shows there is a demand for the goods or services , and big profits supplies the means to expand. it has always been a fact that you ask for what the market will stand and the customers are willing to pay . Market forces will decide what is a fair level of cost to the customerr, that being what they are willing to pay. Businesses are NOT charitable institutions. they are there to make a profit from the goods or services they supply. If you don't like the price , or have a moral hang up about the profit margin, simples . Don't buy it and hope to force the price down. How they run their business is a matter for them, not you. Your not in a position to impose your standards of integrity or morality on others , that is a matter for parliament or the church.
So let me get this right. Companies should be able to charge whatever they like and if the customer thinks the price is too high, then don't buy it? Good idea. So producers of food and utilities such as gas, electricity and water should be allowed to double/treble their prices to make bigger profits? Could you get by without any of these? Would it be possible for us all to withdraw our patronage in order to get them to drop prices? Fine for those who could afford to pay higher prices as an option. What about those who would find it impossible to pay higher prices? For them there is no option. So is your attitude to these people "tough titty"? Nothing is for free . If prices rise, people cut down on consumption to the minimum, and the sellers make less profit. The current completion between suppliers if properly supervised and legislated for, with the watchdogs overseeing prices and profits, with the built in penalties and controls effectively give a fair price. I see no sign of excessive pricing or unreasonable profits. Those opposed to profit making in general will find fault no matter how minimal the profit is. The system works, and for the short and long term befit of all, including share holders and pension funds. The inter weaving complexities of the modern world operate well without too much interference, and are generally best left alone. Too much political interference rarely seems to improve matters IMO.
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marybrown
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Aug 15 2015, 11:54 AM
Post #299
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- Tigger
- Aug 12 2015, 09:30 PM
- marybrown
- Aug 12 2015, 01:27 PM
It's not a strike..it is anarchy...bought our capital city to it's knees..millions could not get to work..
I'm a bit of a Thatcherite..bring in other tube drivers..then their strike will be useless..
We won't care....
And sack them...
Did a Pole give you a funny look at the pea factory today Mary? What's that got to do with the price of fish?..
Never worked in a pea factory..lots of people can't get in..even the Polish..because it is the Portuguese that have overtaken it!.. !dvl!
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Tytoalba
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Aug 15 2015, 12:00 PM
Post #300
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- marybrown
- Aug 15 2015, 11:54 AM
- Tigger
- Aug 12 2015, 09:30 PM
- marybrown
- Aug 12 2015, 01:27 PM
It's not a strike..it is anarchy...bought our capital city to it's knees..millions could not get to work..
I'm a bit of a Thatcherite..bring in other tube drivers..then their strike will be useless..
We won't care....
And sack them...
Did a Pole give you a funny look at the pea factory today Mary?
What's that got to do with the price of fish?.. Never worked in a pea factory..lots of people can't get in..even the Polish..because it is the Portuguese that have overtaken it!.. !dvl! Talking about Fish look up 'James the fish' for the best frozen cod.
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marybrown
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Aug 15 2015, 12:54 PM
Post #301
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- Tytoalba
- Aug 15 2015, 12:00 PM
- marybrown
- Aug 15 2015, 11:54 AM
- Tigger
- Aug 12 2015, 09:30 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
What's that got to do with the price of fish?.. Never worked in a pea factory..lots of people can't get in..even the Polish..because it is the Portuguese that have overtaken it!.. !dvl!
Talking about Fish look up 'James the fish' for the best frozen cod. I live in a fishing port..I can get a bagful of fresh thick cod steaks from the docks for £15..
A pint of fresh prawns for £3...
I don't buy fresh cod in the summer..as you tend to get a lot of those black thread worms in it..
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marybrown
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Aug 15 2015, 01:46 PM
Post #302
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But having said that and getting back to the thread..why don't our doctors and nurses go on strike..our care workers..petrol stations...police??
These are the people who we rely on...and have bought London to a halt...
For their greed...
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C-too
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Aug 15 2015, 04:38 PM
Post #303
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- Tytoalba
- Aug 13 2015, 05:51 PM
- C-too
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- Tytoalba
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I was of the understanding that a strike ballot had two options, 'those for' and 'those against'. If that system still holds then IMO, if more vote for than against with the non-voters not bothered which outcome is obtained. Then a strike should be legal.
With the right legislation in place the strikes will always be legal. There will be nothing to stop Unions and members from calling for a strike by a ballot of its members. and the intent is that it is called for by a majority eligible to vote. Seems fair to me and stops the vociferous politically motivated greedy few from dictating the agenda. Not all union members support the Union or the politics of the left, and the public and employers need to be protected from the blackmailers. But that would include the non-voters who are prepared to go along with the outcome of the vote taken. How can one justify including those who in the past have exercised their right not to vote ? Those "eligible" to vote can vote against action, if they do not want action taken.
I can almost feel your anger at your idea of a "greedy" element getting their way. Do you feel the same level of anger when rich people increase their wealth through pure greed, like devious deals or not paying their due taxes ?
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Affa
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Aug 15 2015, 04:53 PM
Post #304
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I'm urged to mention the Firemen's strike and how Tytoalba would view that with his down on public sector employees having grievances with the imposition of wage restraint and reduced manning, terms and conditions?
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Steve K
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Aug 15 2015, 05:03 PM
Post #305
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- marybrown
- Aug 15 2015, 01:46 PM
But having said that and getting back to the thread..why don't our doctors and nurses go on strike..our care workers..petrol stations...police??
These are the people who we rely on...and have bought London to a halt...
For their greed... If you ban people from striking without proper safeguards then dodgy employers will push them around and impose new working conditions on them
Just like Boris is trying to do
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Tytoalba
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Aug 15 2015, 10:34 PM
Post #306
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- Affa
- Aug 15 2015, 04:53 PM
I'm urged to mention the Firemen's strike and how Tytoalba would view that with his down on public sector employees having grievances with the imposition of wage restraint and reduced manning, terms and conditions? I was a public sector employee and one that had no right to strike at all. Never have I said that their should be no right to strike, but as all strikes end in discussions, I think that is a good place to start. The truth is that at the moment strikes are being called by militant unions on a minimal turnout of support for it, and the rest coming out on strike because the union demands it. and from fear of reprisals. There is no intent to stop strikes , just to ensure that the majority are committed to it. I would suggest that the bigger the numbers voting for strike , then the stronger the support for the union position. The governmenst plan is to get decisions without threats or coercion and agreed by a bigger number than at present.
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Tigger
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Aug 15 2015, 10:47 PM
Post #307
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- Tytoalba
- Aug 15 2015, 10:34 PM
The governmenst plan is to get decisions without threats or coercion and agreed by a bigger number than at present. In truth this government will not rest until it can ban all strikes for any reason, this is tantamount to suspending democracy and self determination, in other words if someone pays you for your labour they own you.
Keep it in mind...........
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C-too
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Aug 16 2015, 07:59 AM
Post #308
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Tytoalba.
I was a public sector employee and one that had no right to strike at all Well you do appear to have the limited intellect of a typical old fashioned copper. Biased of thought, limited in understanding, with life being eased by the ownership of fixed opinions.
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Pro Veritas
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Aug 16 2015, 08:44 AM
Post #309
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- Steve K
- Aug 15 2015, 05:03 PM
- marybrown
- Aug 15 2015, 01:46 PM
But having said that and getting back to the thread..why don't our doctors and nurses go on strike..our care workers..petrol stations...police??
These are the people who we rely on...and have bought London to a halt...
For their greed...
If you ban people from striking without proper safeguards then dodgy employers will push them around and impose new working conditions on them Just like Boris is trying to do ^ This.
I would suggest that any employee group denied the right to strike have their employment T&C, including annual wage review, negotiated by an external, fully independent, publicly funded body - ACAS for example.
And that the deliberations and conclusions of that body carry legal weight.
All The Best
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Tigger
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Aug 16 2015, 10:00 AM
Post #310
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- Pro Veritas
- Aug 16 2015, 08:44 AM
^ This.
I would suggest that any employee group denied the right to strike have their employment T&C, including annual wage review, negotiated by an external, fully independent, publicly funded body - ACAS for example.
And that the deliberations and conclusions of that body carry legal weight.
All The Best I can remember striking in the 80's to protect my pension, me and thousands of others took a couple of days off to register our discontent at the firms proposals to effectively use our pension pots to gamble on the stock market, unfortunately it was all a waste of time as the government of the day passed legislation that meant we could do nothing about it, despite promises of bumper returns we watched as our pension pots were slowly frittered away over the years on fees and administration costs until the value was similar to that of putting your money in a biscuit tin under your bed.
Anyone who thinks effective striking should be outlawed has clearly not suffered at the hands of corrupt policies and those that fund the politicians who make them.
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Tytoalba
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Aug 16 2015, 10:00 AM
Post #311
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- C-too
- Aug 16 2015, 07:59 AM
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Tytoalba.
I was a public sector employee and one that had no right to strike at all
Well you do appear to have the limited intellect of a typical old fashioned copper. Biased of thought, limited in understanding, with life being eased by the ownership of fixed opinions. Here we go again More insults instead of reasoning. part for the course. from you . The governors brought in legislation to remove the right to strike from the poice a long time ago,, and ithas not harmed the interests of the police to any degree ,and ben to the benefit of the public. Its a codition of service so if you didn't like it you resigned or didn't join in the first place. The police always had the right to resign with a one months notice of termination for they are a civilian body, not a military one .and you will read that they have no difficulty in recruiting members of a good standard of education many of university standards,, and personal integrity. People like me served people like you well , and still do so on a daily basis in spite of the insults and small mindedness that inevitably exists. exists .
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Tigger
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Aug 16 2015, 10:07 AM
Post #312
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- Tytoalba
- Aug 16 2015, 10:00 AM
Here we go again More insults instead of reasoning. part for the course. from you . The governors brought in legislation to remove the right to strike from the poice a long time ago,, and ithas not harmed the interests of the police to any degree ,and ben to the benefit of the public. Its a codition of service so if you didn't like it you resigned or didn't join in the first place. The police always had the right to resign with a one months notice of termination for they are a civilian body, not a military one .and you will read that they have no difficulty in recruiting members of a good standard of education many of university standards,, and personal integrity. People like me served people like you well , and still do so on a daily basis in spite of the insults and small mindedness that inevitably exists. exists . I think you should revise your post, unless of course you are an I'm alright Jack type who is safely drawing his pension?
You may also have noticed discontent among contemporary police officers many of who would like to see the right to strike given to them as well, the reasons are of course varied from pension theft to forcing elderly officers to work longer and get less when they do go, the present politicising of the police force is also a no no in my view.
Still it's easy to sit back and pontificate if you are safely out of harms way isn't it?
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Affa
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Aug 16 2015, 10:08 AM
Post #313
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- Tytoalba
- Aug 15 2015, 10:34 PM
- Affa
- Aug 15 2015, 04:53 PM
I'm urged to mention the Firemen's strike and how Tytoalba would view that with his down on public sector employees having grievances with the imposition of wage restraint and reduced manning, terms and conditions?
I was a public sector employee and one that had no right to strike at all. Never have I said that their should be no right to strike, but as all strikes end in discussions, I think that is a good place to start. The truth is that at the moment strikes are being called by militant unions on a minimal turnout of support for it, and the rest coming out on strike because the union demands it. and from fear of reprisals. There is no intent to stop strikes , just to ensure that the majority are committed to it. I would suggest that the bigger the numbers voting for strike , then the stronger the support for the union position. The governmenst plan is to get decisions without threats or coercion and agreed by a bigger number than at present.
the Fireman's strike was for an increase in wages of some 20-30% if memory serves me correctly. The basis if this demand, supported as it was by the numbers you declare add justification, was 'a return to parity with what the police were receiving as income'. A dispute that had support from some in government opposition ......
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Tytoalba
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Aug 16 2015, 10:12 AM
Post #314
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- C-too
- Aug 16 2015, 07:59 AM
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Tytoalba.
I was a public sector employee and one that had no right to strike at all
Well you do appear to have the limited intellect of a typical old fashioned copper. Biased of thought, limited in understanding, with life being eased by the ownership of fixed opinions. Policing the streets of London on a daily basis over many years widens ones horizons, gives a good understanding of human behaviour and suffering, and with all actions and decisions overseen by courts,and the legal system in general and by parliament overall. Its a fact based occupation with a need for objectivity and impartiality, the reasons I have difficulty understanding the biased and emotional mind set of so many of the posters of the left. Naturally this will give you and one or two others the opportunity to insult further ,but that is your problem, not mine.
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Tigger
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Aug 16 2015, 10:17 AM
Post #315
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- Tytoalba
- Aug 16 2015, 10:12 AM
Policing the streets of London on a daily basis over many years widens ones horizons, gives a good understanding of human behaviour and suffering, and with all actions and decisions overseen by courts,and the legal system in general and by parliament overall. Its a fact based occupation with a need for objectivity and impartiality, the reasons I have difficulty understanding the biased and emotional mind set of so many of the posters of the left. Naturally this will give you and one or two others the opportunity to insult further ,but that is your problem, not mine. It might give you an insight into the dregs of society but the majority suffer in silence and have to make the best of a bad hand, you may feel it is worth defending the status quo but many would completely disagree with you, including me, empathy is one trait you clearly lack.
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Tytoalba
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Aug 16 2015, 10:35 AM
Post #316
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- Tigger
- Aug 16 2015, 10:07 AM
- Tytoalba
- Aug 16 2015, 10:00 AM
Here we go again More insults instead of reasoning. part for the course. from you . The governors brought in legislation to remove the right to strike from the poice a long time ago,, and ithas not harmed the interests of the police to any degree ,and ben to the benefit of the public. Its a codition of service so if you didn't like it you resigned or didn't join in the first place. The police always had the right to resign with a one months notice of termination for they are a civilian body, not a military one .and you will read that they have no difficulty in recruiting members of a good standard of education many of university standards,, and personal integrity. People like me served people like you well , and still do so on a daily basis in spite of the insults and small mindedness that inevitably exists. exists .
I think you should revise your post, unless of course you are an I'm alright Jack type who is safely drawing his pension? You may also have noticed discontent among contemporary police officers many of who would like to see the right to strike given to them as well, the reasons are of course varied from pension theft to forcing elderly officers to work longer and get less when they do go, the present politicising of the police force is also a no no in my view. Still it's easy to sit back and pontificate if you are safely out of harms way isn't it? I was in harms way for a long time , and suffered injuries as a result. As an insider I know there was no strong call for the ability to stake and of course there were always the militant few like yourself who would like to strike, but we all signed up to not having the right to strike when we joined. so it was never a problem with any of us. If we did not like the conditions we gave a months notice and withdrew our labour that way .No one did. We were well represented by our federation, who negotiated on our behalf. and most enjoyed the job. As for my present situation I looked after my own interests and those of my family. invested well. and the pension was worked for and was the negotiated condition of service. Do you have a problem with that?
The original pension was based on life expectancy on retirement, which was about nine years, and was paid for out of the subscription to pension from serving officers. Times have changed and hours are shorter and more considerate today and life expectancy has improved so pensions have changed Google it yourself,
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Tytoalba
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Aug 16 2015, 10:48 AM
Post #317
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- Tigger
- Aug 16 2015, 10:17 AM
- Tytoalba
- Aug 16 2015, 10:12 AM
Policing the streets of London on a daily basis over many years widens ones horizons, gives a good understanding of human behaviour and suffering, and with all actions and decisions overseen by courts,and the legal system in general and by parliament overall. Its a fact based occupation with a need for objectivity and impartiality, the reasons I have difficulty understanding the biased and emotional mind set of so many of the posters of the left. Naturally this will give you and one or two others the opportunity to insult further ,but that is your problem, not mine.
It might give you an insight into the dregs of society but the majority suffer in silence and have to make the best of a bad hand, you may feel it is worth defending the status quo but many would completely disagree with you, including me, empathy is one trait you clearly lack. Its strange how those on the left of politics see everything wrong with society and its institutions and business practices, and the world around them and those who are central or to the right are more accepting of the world and are generally satisfied with their lives. Now where is the problem . The left are always moaning and groaning , whinging and whining, wanting to change everything to their own advantage,, when the real problem lies within themselves. Our country is well run , and the services we receive are generally satisfactory across the board, and most people are honest hard working, kindly and well intentioned, and that's a fact.
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Lewis
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Aug 16 2015, 11:00 AM
Post #318
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- Tytoalba
- Aug 16 2015, 10:48 AM
- Tigger
- Aug 16 2015, 10:17 AM
- Tytoalba
- Aug 16 2015, 10:12 AM
Policing the streets of London on a daily basis over many years widens ones horizons, gives a good understanding of human behaviour and suffering, and with all actions and decisions overseen by courts,and the legal system in general and by parliament overall. Its a fact based occupation with a need for objectivity and impartiality, the reasons I have difficulty understanding the biased and emotional mind set of so many of the posters of the left. Naturally this will give you and one or two others the opportunity to insult further ,but that is your problem, not mine.
It might give you an insight into the dregs of society but the majority suffer in silence and have to make the best of a bad hand, you may feel it is worth defending the status quo but many would completely disagree with you, including me, empathy is one trait you clearly lack.
Its strange how those on the left of politics see everything wrong with society and its institutions and business practices, and the world around them and those who are central or to the right are more accepting of the world and are generally satisfied with their lives. Now where is the problem . The left are always moaning and groaning , whinging and whining, wanting to change everything to their own advantage,, when the real problem lies within themselves. Our country is well run , and the services we receive are generally satisfactory across the board, and most people are honest hard working, kindly and well intentioned, and that's a fact. There is no such thing as left or right wing these days, especially about the centre. The problem we have is that this incompetent Tory government is a right wing one to the extremes. They lie and cheat, already their manifesto that expected people to vote on has already been proven to be a load of untruths. There is nothing wrong with moaning about a situation that is clearly corrupt. The extremist right wing government we are suffering now wants to ban strikes and remove peoples rights to protest. Stalin would be proud of Scameron!
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C-too
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Aug 16 2015, 11:07 AM
Post #319
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- Tytoalba
- Aug 16 2015, 10:00 AM
- C-too
- Aug 16 2015, 07:59 AM
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Tytoalba.
I was a public sector employee and one that had no right to strike at all
Well you do appear to have the limited intellect of a typical old fashioned copper. Biased of thought, limited in understanding, with life being eased by the ownership of fixed opinions.
Here we go again More insults instead of reasoning. part for the course. from you . The governors brought in legislation to remove the right to strike from the poice a long time ago,, and ithas not harmed the interests of the police to any degree ,and ben to the benefit of the public. Its a codition of service so if you didn't like it you resigned or didn't join in the first place. The police always had the right to resign with a one months notice of termination for they are a civilian body, not a military one .and you will read that they have no difficulty in recruiting members of a good standard of education many of university standards,, and personal integrity. People like me served people like you well , and still do so on a daily basis in spite of the insults and small mindedness that inevitably exists. exists . I was trying to assess where you thinking lies. The contradiction of repeatedly voting for the continuation of Thatcherism and even now defending her, does not gel with some of the moderate claims you make about yourself. Police pay and conditions did not suffer to any great degree by not having the right to strike. That would not be the case for many in the private sector.
The education level for being a policeman was raised around thirty years ago, even so, education does not guarantee common-sense nor does it guarantee an absence of bias, bigotry or fixed opinions.
My post was more about clarification than any attempt to insult you.
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Tytoalba
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Aug 16 2015, 11:08 AM
Post #320
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- Lewis
- Aug 16 2015, 11:00 AM
- Tytoalba
- Aug 16 2015, 10:48 AM
- Tigger
- Aug 16 2015, 10:17 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Its strange how those on the left of politics see everything wrong with society and its institutions and business practices, and the world around them and those who are central or to the right are more accepting of the world and are generally satisfied with their lives. Now where is the problem . The left are always moaning and groaning , whinging and whining, wanting to change everything to their own advantage,, when the real problem lies within themselves. Our country is well run , and the services we receive are generally satisfactory across the board, and most people are honest hard working, kindly and well intentioned, and that's a fact.
There is no such thing as left or right wing these days, especially about the centre. The problem we have is that this incompetent Tory government is a right wing one to the extremes. They lie and cheat, already their manifesto that expected people to vote on has already been proven to be a load of untruths. There is nothing wrong with moaning about a situation that is clearly corrupt. The extremist right wing government we are suffering now wants to ban strikes and remove peoples rights to protest. Stalin would be proud of Scameron! Here we go. , I do not agree with your interpretation of this government being incompetent. What they are doing is necessary for our future welfare as a country. The austerity measures being put in place are necessary , top protect our longer term future and financial security. Another down turn in the economy with losses of jobs will break us with the big increase in social security payments that will require,. so we will just have to disagree. The reality is that we just cannot afford to follow Corbyns {and your own}Utopian vision of the future.
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