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Justification for striking?
Topic Started: Aug 5 2015, 06:40 AM (2,904 Views)
RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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How much a newly-qualified tube driver makes per hour, compared to other careers
Career Teacher Firefighter Nurse Policeman Tube driver
£/hr worked 7.6 9.66 11.12 11.2 26.53


Are switch flickers worth3.5x more that Teachers?


How much do Tube Drivers get

I would not use the word earn.

Funny when it is a problem with a monopoly supplier of goods and services that we are angry, outraged and the Usuals scream from the rooftops "it's not fair".
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Replies:
Tigger
Senior Member
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Tytoalba
Aug 16 2015, 10:35 AM
I was in harms way for a long time , and suffered injuries as a result. As an insider I know there was no strong call for the ability to stake and of course there were always the militant few like yourself who would like to strike, but we all signed up to not having the right to strike when we joined. so it was never a problem with any of us. If we did not like the conditions we gave a months notice and withdrew our labour that way .No one did. We were well represented by our federation, who negotiated on our behalf. and most enjoyed the job. As for my present situation I looked after my own interests and those of my family. invested well. and the pension was worked for and was the negotiated condition of service.
Do you have a problem with that?

The original pension was based on life expectancy on retirement, which was about nine years, and was paid for out of the subscription to pension from serving officers. Times have changed and hours are shorter and more considerate today and life expectancy has improved so pensions have changed
Google it yourself,
I know all about the police and the pension provisions and also the gripes many have as my sister is married to a copper, that aside you once again display self satisfaction and presume your views are wholly representative, and as in any job if you want to attract the very best candidates you need to offer terms and conditions accordingly, please don't tell me that if the police were offered the sort of contracts B&Q dish out we'd have a competent and incoruptable police force, we wouldn't, many people do dangerous jobs, far more dangerous than the police in fact, and get a fraction of the pay so please don't try that self pitying route.

And you may well have done well out of it so why deny others that right by fighting for THEIR pay and conditions? Pay and condition that were not handed to them on a plate and defended by the Police Federation which if you think about it is little more that a trade union for the workers in that job, don't trip arse over head on semantics and pretend your former job was somewhat special, it was is not.
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Tigger
Senior Member
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Tytoalba
Aug 16 2015, 11:08 AM
Here we go. ,
I do not agree with your interpretation of this government being incompetent. What they are doing is necessary for our future welfare as a country. The austerity measures being put in place are necessary , top protect our longer term future and financial security. Another down turn in the economy with losses of jobs will break us with the big increase in social security payments that will require,. so we will just have to disagree.
The reality is that we just cannot afford to follow Corbyns {and your own}Utopian vision of the future.
Yes here we go again.

You are clearly oblivious to the severe damage the present governments debt fuelled binge will cause in the coming years, pray for your skivvy grandchildren......
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C-too
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Honourable Member
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Tytoalba
Aug 16 2015, 10:48 AM
Tigger
Aug 16 2015, 10:17 AM
Tytoalba
Aug 16 2015, 10:12 AM
Policing the streets of London on a daily basis over many years widens ones horizons, gives a good understanding of human behaviour and suffering, and with all actions and decisions overseen by courts,and the legal system in general and by parliament overall. Its a fact based occupation with a need for objectivity and impartiality, the reasons I have difficulty understanding the biased and emotional mind set of so many of the posters of the left. Naturally this will give you and one or two others the opportunity to insult further ,but that is your problem, not mine.
It might give you an insight into the dregs of society but the majority suffer in silence and have to make the best of a bad hand, you may feel it is worth defending the status quo but many would completely disagree with you, including me, empathy is one trait you clearly lack.
Its strange how those on the left of politics see everything wrong with society and its institutions and business practices, and the world around them and those who are central or to the right are more accepting of the world and are generally satisfied with their lives. Now where is the problem .
The left are always moaning and groaning , whinging and whining, wanting to change everything to their own advantage,, when the real problem lies within themselves. Our country is well run , and the services we receive are generally satisfactory across the board, and most people are honest hard working, kindly and well intentioned, and that's a fact.
I find it strange how those on the right can be so callous and are then either surprised of feign surprise when their callousness is pointed out.
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Lewis
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Tytoalba
Aug 16 2015, 11:08 AM
Lewis
Aug 16 2015, 11:00 AM
Tytoalba
Aug 16 2015, 10:48 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
There is no such thing as left or right wing these days, especially about the centre. The problem we have is that this incompetent Tory government is a right wing one to the extremes. They lie and cheat, already their manifesto that expected people to vote on has already been proven to be a load of untruths. There is nothing wrong with moaning about a situation that is clearly corrupt. The extremist right wing government we are suffering now wants to ban strikes and remove peoples rights to protest. Stalin would be proud of Scameron!
Here we go. ,
I do not agree with your interpretation of this government being incompetent. What they are doing is necessary for our future welfare as a country. The austerity measures being put in place are necessary , top protect our longer term future and financial security. Another down turn in the economy with losses of jobs will break us with the big increase in social security payments that will require,. so we will just have to disagree.
The reality is that we just cannot afford to follow Corbyns {and your own}Utopian vision of the future.
Another of Scamerons brainwashed then. We will have to disagree. Austerity just doesn't work.

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Affa
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Lewis
Aug 16 2015, 11:36 AM
Another of Scamerons brainwashed then. We will have to disagree. Austerity just doesn't work.

Importantly, neither is austerity necessary.
There is enough evidence already to show that austerity measures actually make things worse .... prevent growth.

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Lewis
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Affa
Aug 16 2015, 11:55 AM
Lewis
Aug 16 2015, 11:36 AM
Another of Scamerons brainwashed then. We will have to disagree. Austerity just doesn't work.

Importantly, neither is austerity necessary.
There is enough evidence already to show that austerity measures actually make things worse .... prevent growth.

Yes the evidence is there with productivity down, unemployment increasing, exporters struggling and balance of payments up the Creek.
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Rich
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Tigger
Aug 15 2015, 10:47 PM
Tytoalba
Aug 15 2015, 10:34 PM
The governmenst plan is to get decisions without threats or coercion and agreed by a bigger number than at present.
In truth this government will not rest until it can ban all strikes for any reason, this is tantamount to suspending democracy and self determination, in other words if someone pays you for your labour they own you.

Keep it in mind...........
If you do not like the terms and conditions of a contract, then go elsewhere and find a job that suits your skills and needs.....hold on.....first of all you need to have a skill that an employer needs and will help to develop that skill by paying for training to make you even more skillful, as we go through life and technology goes forward in leaps and bounds the needs of the general public relying on transport to get to and from their place of work changes and becomes ever more paramount that they arrive there at a designated and agreed time to carry out their tasks and make sure that they help their employer to stay in business and make a profit.

I do not think that LUT have garnered any public support whatsoever and that will only accelerate the need for automation, what will the drivers and union members do then?.....they have shit in their own nest.
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Pro Veritas
Upstanding Member
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Rich
Aug 16 2015, 12:42 PM
If you do not like the terms and conditions of a contract, then go elsewhere and find a job that suits your skills and needs.....
Sorry Rich, but I do not for one second believe you to be that dumb.

Tiggers point is that EVERY contract will be so stacked against the employee.

That is the purpose of eroding the right to strike - to be able to erode regulations protecting working conditions.

It won't matter what trade / skill you have to offer when the ONLY contract on offer is "do as I say or starve" - and that is exactly what removing the right to strike leads to.

You need be thinking about this in terms of how it will affect your kids, and their kids.

All The Best
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Rich
Senior Member
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Pro Veritas
Aug 16 2015, 12:57 PM
Rich
Aug 16 2015, 12:42 PM
If you do not like the terms and conditions of a contract, then go elsewhere and find a job that suits your skills and needs.....
Sorry Rich, but I do not for one second believe you to be that dumb.

Tiggers point is that EVERY contract will be so stacked against the employee.

That is the purpose of eroding the right to strike - to be able to erode regulations protecting working conditions.

It won't matter what trade / skill you have to offer when the ONLY contract on offer is "do as I say or starve" - and that is exactly what removing the right to strike leads to.

You need be thinking about this in terms of how it will affect your kids, and their kids.

All The Best
So who, exactly is removing the right to strike?
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Pro Veritas
Upstanding Member
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Rich
Aug 16 2015, 07:39 PM
Pro Veritas
Aug 16 2015, 12:57 PM
Rich
Aug 16 2015, 12:42 PM
If you do not like the terms and conditions of a contract, then go elsewhere and find a job that suits your skills and needs.....
Sorry Rich, but I do not for one second believe you to be that dumb.

Tiggers point is that EVERY contract will be so stacked against the employee.

That is the purpose of eroding the right to strike - to be able to erode regulations protecting working conditions.

It won't matter what trade / skill you have to offer when the ONLY contract on offer is "do as I say or starve" - and that is exactly what removing the right to strike leads to.

You need be thinking about this in terms of how it will affect your kids, and their kids.

All The Best
So who, exactly is removing the right to strike?
The government are.

All The Best
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Tigger
Senior Member
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Pro Veritas
Aug 16 2015, 12:57 PM
Rich
Aug 16 2015, 12:42 PM
If you do not like the terms and conditions of a contract, then go elsewhere and find a job that suits your skills and needs.....
Sorry Rich, but I do not for one second believe you to be that dumb.

Tiggers point is that EVERY contract will be so stacked against the employee.

That is the purpose of eroding the right to strike - to be able to erode regulations protecting working conditions.

It won't matter what trade / skill you have to offer when the ONLY contract on offer is "do as I say or starve" - and that is exactly what removing the right to strike leads to.

You need be thinking about this in terms of how it will affect your kids, and their kids.

All The Best
Perhaps in the light of Rich's "advice" on what you should do if your employer decides to cut both your pay and conditions you should ask him why, and by his own recent admission, he meekly accepted a £10k pay cut from his employers? And while you are at it why he is still working for this firm? :)

If I'm not mistaken this is a case of I've been done over and did bugger all about it so you should also roll over and piss in the air like a frightened puppy.........
Edited by Tigger, Aug 16 2015, 08:40 PM.
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Rich
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Pro Veritas
Aug 16 2015, 07:55 PM
Rich
Aug 16 2015, 07:39 PM
Pro Veritas
Aug 16 2015, 12:57 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
So who, exactly is removing the right to strike?
The government are.

All The Best
Really, I understand that they require that a majority must vote on striking and not as it is at present where a minority (aka, union baron) has called for a strike, I do not see that as being difficult to do......do you?
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Tytoalba
Senior Member
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Tigger
Aug 16 2015, 11:09 AM
Tytoalba
Aug 16 2015, 10:35 AM
I was in harms way for a long time , and suffered injuries as a result. As an insider I know there was no strong call for the ability to stake and of course there were always the militant few like yourself who would like to strike, but we all signed up to not having the right to strike when we joined. so it was never a problem with any of us. If we did not like the conditions we gave a months notice and withdrew our labour that way .No one did. We were well represented by our federation, who negotiated on our behalf. and most enjoyed the job. As for my present situation I looked after my own interests and those of my family. invested well. and the pension was worked for and was the negotiated condition of service.
Do you have a problem with that?

The original pension was based on life expectancy on retirement, which was about nine years, and was paid for out of the subscription to pension from serving officers. Times have changed and hours are shorter and more considerate today and life expectancy has improved so pensions have changed
Google it yourself,
I know all about the police and the pension provisions and also the gripes many have as my sister is married to a copper, that aside you once again display self satisfaction and presume your views are wholly representative, and as in any job if you want to attract the very best candidates you need to offer terms and conditions accordingly, please don't tell me that if the police were offered the sort of contracts B&Q dish out we'd have a competent and incoruptable police force, we wouldn't, many people do dangerous jobs, far more dangerous than the police in fact, and get a fraction of the pay so please don't try that self pitying route.

And you may well have done well out of it so why deny others that right by fighting for THEIR pay and conditions? Pay and condition that were not handed to them on a plate and defended by the Police Federation which if you think about it is little more that a trade union for the workers in that job, don't trip arse over head on semantics and pretend your former job was somewhat special, it was is not.
Where have I done that. ? As for your sisters husband , if he is anything like you he is bound to see everything in a negative light. BTW has he the right to strike, and does he accept the terms of his employment, or is he unhappy with his terms of employment and remuneration and set to resign?
Does he actually agree with your thinking, ?
Your invariably personal and offensive,, so I do prefer not to engage with you, as I have said before.
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Tigger
Senior Member
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Tytoalba
Aug 16 2015, 08:46 PM
Where have I done that. ? As for your sisters husband , if he is anything like you he is bound to see everything in a negative light. BTW has he the right to strike, and does he accept the terms of his employment, or is he unhappy with his terms of employment and remuneration and set to resign?
Does he actually agree with your thinking, ?
Your invariably personal and offensive,, so I do prefer not to engage with you, as I have said before.
I was not being especially offensive, and your avoidance of my core point, ie the Police Federation is in effect a union for the police force AND conducts lobbying, was duly noted.

Ok for some if you alter the reference points eh?

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disgruntled porker
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Older than most people think I am.
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Rich
Aug 16 2015, 12:42 PM
Tigger
Aug 15 2015, 10:47 PM
Tytoalba
Aug 15 2015, 10:34 PM
The governmenst plan is to get decisions without threats or coercion and agreed by a bigger number than at present.
In truth this government will not rest until it can ban all strikes for any reason, this is tantamount to suspending democracy and self determination, in other words if someone pays you for your labour they own you.

Keep it in mind...........
If you do not like the terms and conditions of a contract, then go elsewhere and find a job that suits your skills and needs.....hold on.....first of all you need to have a skill that an employer needs and will help to develop that skill by paying for training to make you even more skillful, as we go through life and technology goes forward in leaps and bounds the needs of the general public relying on transport to get to and from their place of work changes and becomes ever more paramount that they arrive there at a designated and agreed time to carry out their tasks and make sure that they help their employer to stay in business and make a profit.

I do not think that LUT have garnered any public support whatsoever and that will only accelerate the need for automation, what will the drivers and union members do then?.....they have shit in their own nest.
Yes it is paramount for many reasons. But what happened to this looking after yourself and the choice privatisation gives you. Fuck the tube off and use the bus. Buy a car (even car share with a mate), buy a motor bike, buy a pushbike, hire a cab. Loads of ways not to rely on the tube.
Edited by disgruntled porker, Aug 17 2015, 12:12 PM.
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