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Corbyn will apologise for Iraq War on behalf of Labour if he win
Topic Started: Aug 20 2015, 10:02 PM (626 Views)
Phoenix One UK
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Jeremy Corbyn will apologise for Iraq War on behalf of Labour if he wins leadership contest

Labour leader frontrunner Jeremy Corbyn has promised to apologise for the Iraq War on behalf of the party if he becomes leader.
Corbyn will issue a statement saying sorry for the invasion of Iraq if he wins the battle to succeed Ed Miliband as party leader in the hotly contested race.

He told the Guardian: "... it is past time that Labour apologised to the British people for taking them into the Iraq war on the basis of deception and to the Iraqi people for the suffering we have helped cause. Under our Labour, we will make this apology."

“Let us say we will never again unnecessarily put our troops under fire and our country’s standing in the world at risk. Let us make it clear that Labour will never make the same mistake again, will never flout the United Nations and international law,” he said.

http://www.cityam.com/222759/jeremy-corbyn-will-apologise-iraq-war-behalf-labour-if-he-wins-leadership-contest

Unquote:===========================

This should prove interesting, and I doubt Blair would be impressed.

I wrote an article on Tony Blair's action. A copy can be found here: http://democracyforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=74044
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Pro Veritas
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Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 07:04 PM
You mean the greater Labour party PLUS tories various that have signed up PLUS Socialist Workers party activists that have signed up etc etc

It's a farce and you know it
It's within the rules the Labour Party mandated.

Surely they must have known that when they a) had thrown enough support behind Corbyn to get him on the ticket, and b) changed how the leader is elected some of the 5 million who turned away from Blairism would come back to try and reclaim their party.

All The Best
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Steve K
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Pro Veritas
Aug 21 2015, 07:18 PM
Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 07:04 PM
You mean the greater Labour party PLUS tories various that have signed up PLUS Socialist Workers party activists that have signed up etc etc

It's a farce and you know it
It's within the rules the Labour Party mandated.

Surely they must have known that when they a) had thrown enough support behind Corbyn to get him on the ticket, and b) changed how the leader is elected some of the 5 million who turned away from Blairism would come back to try and reclaim their party.

All The Best
Blair was out of office in 2007, he never lost them 5 milion anything

You staking a great deal of reputation that there will still be 600,000 registered Labour supporters this time next year. In fact you suggest it will be even higher. Believable? :nono:
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Pro Veritas
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Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 07:40 PM

You staking a great deal of reputation that there will still be 600,000 registered Labour supporters this time next year. In fact you suggest it will be even higher. Believable? :nono:
No.

The pet press in this country will do a hatchet job on Corbyn, because even if he wins the LP leadership with 95% of the votes the remaining Blairites still have far too many vested personal interests to ever allow him to implement some of his policies - even if those policies are a) true to original Labour ideals and b) good for the country (Please Note: I said IF).

For the record Corbyn is a little too far left for my liking, but I like that he is invigourating the political landscape, and I like that he has principles he sticks to, and I like (as so many do) that he intends to turn Labour away from Tory-Lite Blairism.

At the moment the choice in this country is Centre-Right (Labour) or Right-Of-Centre (Tory).

The electorate is getting shafted by the esablishment; if Corbyn shakes that up abit then great.

All The Best
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Steve K
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The whole thing has been a farce in so many respects. The three credible leaders (Chukka, Burnham and Cooper) either walked or had their personalities walk away. Chukka I can respect but Cooper should then have walked this, she's been an accomplished player for years. But what happens ? She goes all wet. Kendall should never have dreamt she could win.

but Corbyn is not the answer to anything. He should be like Skinner, excellent at keeping others on their toes
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Rich
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Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 08:10 PM
The whole thing has been a farce in so many respects. The three credible leaders (Chukka, Burnham and Cooper) either walked or had their personalities walk away. Chukka I can respect but Cooper should then have walked this, she's been an accomplished player for years. But what happens ? She goes all wet. Kendall should never have dreamt she could win.

but Corbyn is not the answer to anything. He should be like Skinner, excellent at keeping others on their toes
The latest rumour according to the early evening news is of another"breakaway" party, Umuna is involved in this "rumour" and the tired old phrase of SDP was mentioned, as I say, it is only a rumour at present.
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Rich
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Mr Corbyn an hour ago on any questions.

It begins at 4 minutes and 7 seconds in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b065xk23#play
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Cymru
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Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 07:04 PM
Cymru
Aug 21 2015, 05:16 PM
Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 04:58 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Another awkward fact is that this same greater Labour Party are overwhelmingly in favour of this man, even after his stated desire to bring back clause 4, becoming the next leader of their party.
You mean the greater Labour party PLUS tories various that have signed up PLUS Socialist Workers party activists that have signed up etc etc

It's a farce and you know it
Yeah, all those hundreds of thousands of crypto-Trotskyists and Tory entryists, they are clearly the difference in this election...

You aren't John McTernan by any chance are you?
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Tigger
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Tytoalba
Aug 21 2015, 09:03 AM
The majority of the electorate are sensible people.
No they are not, they frequently confuse self interest with national interest, are frightened of anything new or not properly understood, and will happily swallow virtually any old bollocks the press makes up simply because they are too lazy to think for themselves.........
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Tigger
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Pro Veritas
Aug 21 2015, 07:48 PM


The electorate is getting shafted by the esablishment; if Corbyn shakes that up abit then great.

This is the reason I'd like to see him given a couple of years facing Cameron and his self serving government, there will be far less of the cosy club atmosphere we currently have to put up with.
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AndyK
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Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 07:04 PM
Cymru
Aug 21 2015, 05:16 PM
Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 04:58 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Another awkward fact is that this same greater Labour Party are overwhelmingly in favour of this man, even after his stated desire to bring back clause 4, becoming the next leader of their party.
You mean the greater Labour party PLUS tories various that have signed up PLUS Socialist Workers party activists that have signed up etc etc

It's a farce and you know it
Plus 4 llamas.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4531215.ece
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Steve K
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Cymru
Aug 21 2015, 09:05 PM
Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 07:04 PM
Cymru
Aug 21 2015, 05:16 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
You mean the greater Labour party PLUS tories various that have signed up PLUS Socialist Workers party activists that have signed up etc etc

It's a farce and you know it
Yeah, all those hundreds of thousands of crypto-Trotskyists and Tory entryists, they are clearly the difference in this election...

You aren't John McTernan by any chance are you?
No more than you're that nice Mr Putin. But an interesting try at diverting from the point in hand. So sad we haven't got rules on this forum.

Can you show that the voting list has not been hopelessly corrupted? :nono:

Is it wildly increased from the numbers of honest Labour party workers who flogged their hearts out trying to win the last election? Oh yes it certainly is.




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Pro Veritas
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Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 09:27 PM
Is it wildly increased from the numbers of honest Labour party workers who flogged their hearts out trying to win the last election? Oh yes it certainly is.




If they were supporting a Blairite platform they were no more "honest" Labour supporters than I am the Prince of Persia.

Blairism != Labour Values


All The Best
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Steve K
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Pro Veritas
Aug 21 2015, 09:39 PM
Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 09:27 PM
Is it wildly increased from the numbers of honest Labour party workers who flogged their hearts out trying to win the last election? Oh yes it certainly is.




If they were supporting a Blairite platform they were no more "honest" Labour supporters than I am the Prince of Persia.

Blairism != Labour Values


All The Best
But that is to deny that Labour selected Blair and John Smith before him and Labour endorsed his reform of Clause 4

You seem to believe that anyone not agreeing with your particular wishes cannot be a true Labour supporter. Do you not see the dogmatic folly in that?
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Tytoalba
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marybrown
Aug 21 2015, 01:44 PM
What the hell is apologising going to do??

Empty gesture...
Makes them "nice" people, until the next time. These things never seem to end, and I could list athe warts and atrocities that have occurred since the last war to end all wars. Currently North and South Korea are shooting at each other , and other wars are taking place leading to the displacement of millions.
Apologise away but, it wont change a thing.
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Tigger
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Tytoalba
Aug 21 2015, 09:51 PM

Apologise away but, it wont change a thing.
Try telling that to the Swiss.......
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Heinrich
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The last people to understand the importance of Jeremy Corbyn's promise to apologize for waging an aggressive invasion of Iraq would be New Labour members such as his three opponents or Tories who were even more in favor of the illegal war and for whom, on principle, apologizing is considered treacherous.

Many life-long Labour supporters left New Labour and had nowhere to go, except perhaps to the Liberal Democrats. Many more must have stayed away from the polls, determined not to vote New Labour ever again. When Ed Miliband said it was wrong to have attacked Iraq, that was true but lame. An apology is the minimum required to bring back traditional Labour voters. Furthermore, arranging for Andy Burnham or Yvette Cooper who both supported the invasion will put paid to bringing back old Labour support.
Edited by Heinrich, Aug 21 2015, 11:29 PM.
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Gnikkk
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His election would at least be honest and allow the British public to make a properly informed choice. They all want the same things but the rest want power more and will tell you what you want to hear in order to get it. It's a deception the British people will see through if someone else gets in and hopefully we won't get this bunch of charlatans ever again. In retrospect the wars made things a whole lot worse, but how were those in control to know? We are dealing with a screwed mentality and now we have given them an excuse for it.
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Gnikkk
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Heinrich
Aug 21 2015, 11:28 PM
... arranging for Andy Burnham or Yvette Cooper who both supported the invasion will put paid to bringing back old Labour support.
What you will have to do to bring back old labour support is to satisfy those who believe that even though they are on benefits they should still have 'nice things'. If you wish to live the dream then head north to Lowryville or Skinnerworld, it's still there stuck in history.
Edited by Gnikkk, Aug 22 2015, 04:16 AM.
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C-too
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Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 07:04 PM
Cymru
Aug 21 2015, 05:16 PM
Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 04:58 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Another awkward fact is that this same greater Labour Party are overwhelmingly in favour of this man, even after his stated desire to bring back clause 4, becoming the next leader of their party.
You mean the greater Labour party PLUS tories various that have signed up PLUS Socialist Workers party activists that have signed up etc etc

It's a farce and you know it
Plus many of his mates from the 'Stop the War Coalition' ? Otherwise known as the 'Magic Wand Brigade'.

Edited by C-too, Aug 22 2015, 06:45 AM.
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Heinrich
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Gnikkk
Aug 22 2015, 04:14 AM
Heinrich
Aug 21 2015, 11:28 PM
... arranging for Andy Burnham or Yvette Cooper who both supported the invasion will put paid to bringing back old Labour support.
What you will have to do to bring back old labour support is to satisfy those who believe that even though they are on benefits they should still have 'nice things'. If you wish to live the dream then head north to Lowryville or Skinnerworld, it's still there stuck in history.
Traditional Labour supporters were hard-working men and women who belonged to unions. There were also professional people who were socialists. Your suggestion that Labour supporters were all unemployed and on benefits is a slur.
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C-too
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Heinrich
Aug 21 2015, 11:28 PM
The last people to understand the importance of Jeremy Corbyn's promise to apologize for waging an aggressive invasion of Iraq would be New Labour members such as his three opponents or Tories who were even more in favor of the illegal war and for whom, on principle, apologizing is considered treacherous.

Many life-long Labour supporters left New Labour and had nowhere to go, except perhaps to the Liberal Democrats. Many more must have stayed away from the polls, determined not to vote New Labour ever again. When Ed Miliband said it was wrong to have attacked Iraq, that was true but lame. An apology is the minimum required to bring back traditional Labour voters. Furthermore, arranging for Andy Burnham or Yvette Cooper who both supported the invasion will put paid to bringing back old Labour support.
I think the smart mouthers like yourself should at least attempt to explain what should have been done about the situation in Iraq between 1998 and 2003. Instead of cowardly hiding behind the outcome.

As far as the UK is concerned the invasion was legal.

As far as I'm concerned an invasion was, sooner or later, inevitable, made inevitable by the madness of Saddam.
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Cymru
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I wonder what Corbyn's stance on Blair being hauled before a judge to answer for war crimes is?

It might explain why Blair has been so public in his opposition to Corbyn recently, perhaps starting to feel the heat?
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Heinrich
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Aug 22 2015, 06:23 AM
I wonder what Corbyn's stance on Blair being hauled before a judge to answer for war crimes is?

It might explain why Blair has been so public in his opposition to Corbyn recently, perhaps starting to feel the heat?
Tony Blair knows he is safe while he resides in Britain where there is a strong tradition of pardoning those accused of war crimes or crimes against humanity.
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C-too
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Aug 22 2015, 06:23 AM
I wonder what Corbyn's stance on Blair being hauled before a judge to answer for war crimes is?

It might explain why Blair has been so public in his opposition to Corbyn recently, perhaps starting to feel the heat?
Corbyn's stance counts for a great big zero. As you well know. ;D
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Lewis
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Pro Veritas
Aug 21 2015, 07:48 PM
Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 07:40 PM

You staking a great deal of reputation that there will still be 600,000 registered Labour supporters this time next year. In fact you suggest it will be even higher. Believable? :nono:
No.

The pet press in this country will do a hatchet job on Corbyn, because even if he wins the LP leadership with 95% of the votes the remaining Blairites still have far too many vested personal interests to ever allow him to implement some of his policies - even if those policies are a) true to original Labour ideals and b) good for the country (Please Note: I said IF).

For the record Corbyn is a little too far left for my liking, but I like that he is invigourating the political landscape, and I like that he has principles he sticks to, and I like (as so many do) that he intends to turn Labour away from Tory-Lite Blairism.

At the moment the choice in this country is Centre-Right (Labour) or Right-Of-Centre (Tory).

The electorate is getting shafted by the esablishment; if Corbyn shakes that up abit then great.

All The Best
The Tories are not centre right but extremist right.
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Steve K
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Lewis
Aug 22 2015, 07:03 AM
The Tories are not centre right but extremist right.
You don't know what extremist right is

How many Tories have called for banning of all trade unions, abolishing all human rights, ending all free healthcare and education and ending of all welfare payments?

That'd be none then wouldn't it
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gee4444
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Steve K
Aug 22 2015, 10:02 AM
Lewis
Aug 22 2015, 07:03 AM
The Tories are not centre right but extremist right.
You don't know what extremist right is

How many Tories have called for banning of all trade unions, abolishing all human rights, ending all free healthcare and education and ending of all welfare payments?

That'd be none then wouldn't it
How many Tories secretely desire banning of all trade unions, abolishing all human rights, ending all free healthcare and education and ending of all welfare payments?

That'd be more than 1 wouldn't it.
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Steve K
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gee4444
Aug 22 2015, 11:52 AM
Steve K
Aug 22 2015, 10:02 AM
Lewis
Aug 22 2015, 07:03 AM
The Tories are not centre right but extremist right.
You don't know what extremist right is

How many Tories have called for banning of all trade unions, abolishing all human rights, ending all free healthcare and education and ending of all welfare payments?

That'd be none then wouldn't it
How many Tories secretely desire banning of all trade unions, abolishing all human rights, ending all free healthcare and education and ending of all welfare payments?

That'd be more than 1 wouldn't it.
name them then
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C-too
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gee4444
Aug 22 2015, 11:52 AM
Steve K
Aug 22 2015, 10:02 AM
Lewis
Aug 22 2015, 07:03 AM
The Tories are not centre right but extremist right.
You don't know what extremist right is

How many Tories have called for banning of all trade unions, abolishing all human rights, ending all free healthcare and education and ending of all welfare payments?

That'd be none then wouldn't it
How many Tories secretely desire banning of all trade unions, abolishing all human rights, ending all free healthcare and education and ending of all welfare payments?

That'd be more than 1 wouldn't it.
Extreme right-wingers will exist in the Tory party and extreme left-wingers in the Labour party.

I would suggest Hannan in the Tory party and Corbyn in Labour. Although they might not be quite extreme enough.


Edited by C-too, Aug 22 2015, 12:53 PM.
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Tytoalba
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Tigger
Aug 21 2015, 09:55 PM
Tytoalba
Aug 21 2015, 09:51 PM

Apologise away but, it wont change a thing.
Try telling that to the Swiss.......
In what language? French German or Italian.?
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RJD
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I have just had opportunity to visit part of what was once the DDR and a local told me that when he passed his driving test at the age of 20 he registered, notifying the State that he would like to acquire a car. He received the OK, the permission, when he was 38 years of age. When I listen to Corbyn I am reminded of those sad times when the lefty Aperatchiks supped cream and the Proles queued for bread. This man is a none-entity, he has done nothing with his long years only suck on the State's tits. Maybe those that support his ideology should take a lesson in history.



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Cymru
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C-too
Aug 22 2015, 06:43 AM
Cymru
Aug 22 2015, 06:23 AM
I wonder what Corbyn's stance on Blair being hauled before a judge to answer for war crimes is?

It might explain why Blair has been so public in his opposition to Corbyn recently, perhaps starting to feel the heat?
Corbyn's stance counts for a great big zero. As you well know. ;D
That's no way to talk about your future leader.
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Lewis
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C-too
Aug 22 2015, 12:21 PM
gee4444
Aug 22 2015, 11:52 AM
Steve K
Aug 22 2015, 10:02 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
How many Tories secretely desire banning of all trade unions, abolishing all human rights, ending all free healthcare and education and ending of all welfare payments?

That'd be more than 1 wouldn't it.
Extreme right-wingers will exist in the Tory party and extreme left-wingers in the Labour party.

I would suggest Hannan in the Tory party and Corbyn in Labour. Although they might not be quite extreme enough.


The whole of the Tory leadership have extreme right wing tendencies.
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gee4444
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Steve K
Aug 22 2015, 12:21 PM
gee4444
Aug 22 2015, 11:52 AM
Steve K
Aug 22 2015, 10:02 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
How many Tories secretely desire banning of all trade unions, abolishing all human rights, ending all free healthcare and education and ending of all welfare payments?

That'd be more than 1 wouldn't it.
name them then
I stated 'secretly' desired. So your request is impractical.
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gee4444
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RJD
Aug 22 2015, 05:29 PM
I have just had opportunity to visit part of what was once the DDR and a local told me that when he passed his driving test at the age of 20 he registered, notifying the State that he would like to acquire a car. He received the OK, the permission, when he was 38 years of age. When I listen to Corbyn I am reminded of those sad times when the lefty Aperatchiks supped cream and the Proles queued for bread. This man is a none-entity, he has done nothing with his long years only suck on the State's tits. Maybe those that support his ideology should take a lesson in history.



You could be right - Corbyn will model himself on Stalin. Or you could be simply spouting the same old Tory propaganda drivel to insight fear. We'll let people decide for themselves.
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Steve K
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gee4444
Aug 22 2015, 05:43 PM
Steve K
Aug 22 2015, 12:21 PM
gee4444
Aug 22 2015, 11:52 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
name them then
I stated 'secretly' desired. So your request is impractical.
Hasn't stopped you before.

But C-Too did come up with that odious twat Hannan, he's close to extremist right wing even if he doesn't tick all the boxes

But with Corbyn as supposed opposition the likes of Hannan could easily become the mainstream of a Tory government

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Tytoalba
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gee4444
Aug 22 2015, 05:43 PM
Steve K
Aug 22 2015, 12:21 PM
gee4444
Aug 22 2015, 11:52 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
name them then
I stated 'secretly' desired. So your request is impractical.
And you have no idea if that is what they want or not, for being secret no one can know. Most Tories I know support the idea of unions representing their members in the work place. Most managers would prefer to negotiate with one body than individually.
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Rich
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gee4444
Aug 22 2015, 05:45 PM
RJD
Aug 22 2015, 05:29 PM
I have just had opportunity to visit part of what was once the DDR and a local told me that when he passed his driving test at the age of 20 he registered, notifying the State that he would like to acquire a car. He received the OK, the permission, when he was 38 years of age. When I listen to Corbyn I am reminded of those sad times when the lefty Aperatchiks supped cream and the Proles queued for bread. This man is a none-entity, he has done nothing with his long years only suck on the State's tits. Maybe those that support his ideology should take a lesson in history.



You could be right - Corbyn will model himself on Stalin. Or you could be simply spouting the same old Tory propaganda drivel to insight fear. We'll let people decide for themselves.
Insight?........or did you perhaps mean incite?
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Tigger
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Tytoalba
Aug 22 2015, 04:39 PM
In what language? French German or Italian.?
All three, and in English as well if you like, as I implied they are generally a bit brighter than the average tabloid fed Brit.......... ;-)
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Tigger
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Steve K
Aug 22 2015, 05:59 PM
gee4444
Aug 22 2015, 05:43 PM
Steve K
Aug 22 2015, 12:21 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I stated 'secretly' desired. So your request is impractical.
Hasn't stopped you before.

But C-Too did come up with that odious twat Hannan, he's close to extremist right wing even if he doesn't tick all the boxes

But with Corbyn as supposed opposition the likes of Hannan could easily become the mainstream of a Tory government

Hannan can seem superficially quite clever, that is if you are poorly informed and a willing recipient of having your right wing balls tickled.....
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