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Corbyn will apologise for Iraq War on behalf of Labour if he win
Topic Started: Aug 20 2015, 10:02 PM (624 Views)
Phoenix One UK
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Jeremy Corbyn will apologise for Iraq War on behalf of Labour if he wins leadership contest

Labour leader frontrunner Jeremy Corbyn has promised to apologise for the Iraq War on behalf of the party if he becomes leader.
Corbyn will issue a statement saying sorry for the invasion of Iraq if he wins the battle to succeed Ed Miliband as party leader in the hotly contested race.

He told the Guardian: "... it is past time that Labour apologised to the British people for taking them into the Iraq war on the basis of deception and to the Iraqi people for the suffering we have helped cause. Under our Labour, we will make this apology."

“Let us say we will never again unnecessarily put our troops under fire and our country’s standing in the world at risk. Let us make it clear that Labour will never make the same mistake again, will never flout the United Nations and international law,” he said.

http://www.cityam.com/222759/jeremy-corbyn-will-apologise-iraq-war-behalf-labour-if-he-wins-leadership-contest

Unquote:===========================

This should prove interesting, and I doubt Blair would be impressed.

I wrote an article on Tony Blair's action. A copy can be found here: http://democracyforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=74044
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gee4444
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Steve K
Aug 22 2015, 05:59 PM
gee4444
Aug 22 2015, 05:43 PM
Steve K
Aug 22 2015, 12:21 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I stated 'secretly' desired. So your request is impractical.
Hasn't stopped you before.

But C-Too did come up with that odious twat Hannan, he's close to extremist right wing even if he doesn't tick all the boxes

But with Corbyn as supposed opposition the likes of Hannan could easily become the mainstream of a Tory government

Put your handbag down.

Hannan - just another Tory, nothing exceptional.

I'm not overly concerned with Tory leadership matters. They're an irrelevance to me.
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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RJD
Aug 22 2015, 05:29 PM
I have just had opportunity to visit part of what was once the DDR and a local told me that when he passed his driving test at the age of 20 he registered, notifying the State that he would like to acquire a car. He received the OK, the permission, when he was 38 years of age. When I listen to Corbyn I am reminded of those sad times when the lefty Aperatchiks supped cream and the Proles queued for bread. This man is a none-entity, he has done nothing with his long years only suck on the State's tits. Maybe those that support his ideology should take a lesson in history.



maybe those who rail against him should take a look at that same history book.

Today Labour Westminster Villagers enjoy their £2.25 artisan baked loaf toast and £2 a shot coffee and £1 croissants while the people the party was set up to be the voice of are lucky if they can afford the Lidl 39p cardboard shite ...


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gee4444
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Tytoalba
Aug 22 2015, 10:24 PM
gee4444
Aug 22 2015, 05:43 PM
Steve K
Aug 22 2015, 12:21 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I stated 'secretly' desired. So your request is impractical.
And you have no idea if that is what they want or not, for being secret no one can know. Most Tories I know support the idea of unions representing their members in the work place. Most managers would prefer to negotiate with one body than individually.
Correct. It was not a statement of fact, just conjecture. The same SK used but massaged a bit for obvious effect. Why didn't you pull SK up I wonder.

I don't doubt there must be some Tories who agree with the idea of Unions. You perceive most do it to facilitate easier negotiations, time is money after all, so your view is logical. Appears most Tories don't like the idea of Unions having any real negotiating power - strikes cost businesses money.

Most Tories perceive strikes as the actions of a selfish and inconsiderate greedy mass of sheep being mislead by a nefarious power mad Union leader (a view hammered into them by a corporate run media) - or am I imagining that?

So I'm struggling to accept your view of Union supporting Tories.
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Cymru
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johnofgwent
Aug 22 2015, 11:01 PM
RJD
Aug 22 2015, 05:29 PM
I have just had opportunity to visit part of what was once the DDR and a local told me that when he passed his driving test at the age of 20 he registered, notifying the State that he would like to acquire a car. He received the OK, the permission, when he was 38 years of age. When I listen to Corbyn I am reminded of those sad times when the lefty Aperatchiks supped cream and the Proles queued for bread. This man is a none-entity, he has done nothing with his long years only suck on the State's tits. Maybe those that support his ideology should take a lesson in history.



maybe those who rail against him should take a look at that same history book.

Today Labour Westminster Villagers enjoy their £2.25 artisan baked loaf toast and £2 a shot coffee and £1 croissants while the people the party was set up to be the voice of are lucky if they can afford the Lidl 39p cardboard shite ...


What's more an increasing number of those people the Labour Party was set up to represent are having to queue up outside food banks for the pleasure of eating that cardboard shite.

The only difference between our capitalism today and the Eastern European socialism of three decades ago is that our elites are richer than their Eastern European equivalents, whilst our propaganda system is more effective than its rival Eastern European one in convincing the majority of its citizens, who aren't lucky enough to be so rich and who consequently often struggle to make ends meet, to be content with this intolerable situation.
Edited by Cymru, Aug 22 2015, 11:20 PM.
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Pro Veritas
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Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 09:45 PM
But that is to deny that Labour selected Blair and John Smith before him and Labour endorsed his reform of Clause 4

You seem to believe that anyone not agreeing with your particular wishes cannot be a true Labour supporter. Do you not see the dogmatic folly in that?
Look, it really is simple.

Certain ideologies have core values that are non-negotiable.

You can't claim to be Jewish and then choose to eat pork.
You can't claim to be Muslim and then choose to drink alcohol.
You can't claim to be Catholic and then deny the necessity of confession.

And you can't claim to be Labour and choose to walk away from socialism.

That Blair and his supporters choose to think differently only show how hypocritical they are for doing it, and how stupid they are for thinking anyone but them buys that shite.

It really, really, really, really is THAT SIMPLE.

All The Best
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Heinrich
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RJD
Aug 22 2015, 05:29 PM
I have just had opportunity to visit part of what was once the DDR and a local told me that when he passed his driving test at the age of 20 he registered, notifying the State that he would like to acquire a car. He received the OK, the permission, when he was 38 years of age. When I listen to Corbyn I am reminded of those sad times when the lefty Aperatchiks supped cream and the Proles queued for bread. This man is a none-entity, he has done nothing with his long years only suck on the State's tits. Maybe those that support his ideology should take a lesson in history.



There were no food banks in the DDR and everyone had a job.
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Gnikkk
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Heinrich
Aug 22 2015, 05:03 AM
Gnikkk
Aug 22 2015, 04:14 AM
Heinrich
Aug 21 2015, 11:28 PM
... arranging for Andy Burnham or Yvette Cooper who both supported the invasion will put paid to bringing back old Labour support.
What you will have to do to bring back old labour support is to satisfy those who believe that even though they are on benefits they should still have 'nice things'. If you wish to live the dream then head north to Lowryville or Skinnerworld, it's still there stuck in history.
Traditional Labour supporters were hard-working men and women who belonged to unions. There were also professional people who were socialists. Your suggestion that Labour supporters were all unemployed and on benefits is a slur.
To Heinrich. I detect a strawman argument, the labour supporters you require are currently on benefits and live in towns that were always backward thinking. If you can overcome their rampant racism, self delusion and woe is me mentality (all someone else's fault) you may get them out to the ballot boxes, maybe a few more freebies and Farageisms would incentivise them.
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Oddball
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I never cease to be curious at folks who feel they have to make public mea culpas for others' sins and transgressions. Sin unless by deliberate association is surely the other guys'? We have more than enough of our own to ponder and atone for, without attempting to do a sort of Christ on the Cross thing and take on everyone else's transgressions.

Should 'I' apologise for slavery if I haven't been [knowingly] actually involved in it? Should 'I' have to apologise for Pol Pot and Hitler, etc., because 'I' like them are homo sapiens? Same goes for all those folks who wiped out the dodo and the passenger pidgeons, should 'I' have to apologise for them?
Edited by Oddball, Aug 23 2015, 07:20 AM.
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RJD
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gee4444
Aug 22 2015, 05:45 PM
RJD
Aug 22 2015, 05:29 PM
I have just had opportunity to visit part of what was once the DDR and a local told me that when he passed his driving test at the age of 20 he registered, notifying the State that he would like to acquire a car. He received the OK, the permission, when he was 38 years of age. When I listen to Corbyn I am reminded of those sad times when the lefty Aperatchiks supped cream and the Proles queued for bread. This man is a none-entity, he has done nothing with his long years only suck on the State's tits. Maybe those that support his ideology should take a lesson in history.



You could be right - Corbyn will model himself on Stalin. Or you could be simply spouting the same old Tory propaganda drivel to insight fear. We'll let people decide for themselves.
If Corbyn wins and he could then there will be a purge of the Blairites from the Party. Corbyn has an army of very committed, dare I say it "latter day Communists", ready and willing, using any means possible to achieve their goals of fashioning the Labour Party to be Their Party. In such a situation I would expect to see the rebirth of the SDP which will attract a number from the Lib-Dems and form a new Party of Opposition. The left have no future and they are only tolerated because we feel secure and the chances of them ever governing the UK appears to be the theme of a Sci-Fi novel. "The People's QE"? You have to be kidding! Such a policy could/would to a grinding down of the value of £Sterling and lead to hyperinflation. Seems to me that Corbyn has modelled his economics on the experiences of one Mr Mugabe.

Maybe it is time as Labour currently have no settled political ID to split and form new branches on the left that represent the differing strands on the left.

Me I cannot take Corbyn as serious, more a very sad joke.

If Corbyn wins then watch very closely as the anti-democratiic forces rapidly change the rules to bolster their positions are guarantors of a continued dominance of that Party. Labour will bleed to death.
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Lewis
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Well the Tory incompetents ae split down the middle over Europe. We are also pis5ed off with all the lies that the incompetents put about in regard to the election. Their manifesto reveals that and is nothing more than a pile of scrap paper.

As regards Corbyn, there is no way he will be leader of Labour, come September. Andy Burnham will be though and Giddie and the soon to be gone Scameron are crapping themselves at the prospect.
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C-too
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Pro Veritas
Aug 22 2015, 11:22 PM
Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 09:45 PM
But that is to deny that Labour selected Blair and John Smith before him and Labour endorsed his reform of Clause 4

You seem to believe that anyone not agreeing with your particular wishes cannot be a true Labour supporter. Do you not see the dogmatic folly in that?
Look, it really is simple.

Certain ideologies have core values that are non-negotiable.

You can't claim to be Jewish and then choose to eat pork.
You can't claim to be Muslim and then choose to drink alcohol.
You can't claim to be Catholic and then deny the necessity of confession.

And you can't claim to be Labour and choose to walk away from socialism.

That Blair and his supporters choose to think differently only show how hypocritical they are for doing it, and how stupid they are for thinking anyone but them buys that shite.

It really, really, really, really is THAT SIMPLE.

All The Best
To your mind maybe.

It took an NL approach to stop 18 years of Tory callousness and to do many things for the lower paid and for the unemployed.

The Old labour party failed both the working people and the country by ensuring majority Tory domination in government.

Do you want some sort of would be socialist, almost permanent opposition ?
Or do you want a government that can and does do things for the low paid and the unemployed ?

I have no doubt that in the different circumstances that now exist, the majority of those who flocked to the early the Labour movement would vote for the latter.
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RJD
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C-too
Aug 23 2015, 08:20 AM
Pro Veritas
Aug 22 2015, 11:22 PM
Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 09:45 PM
But that is to deny that Labour selected Blair and John Smith before him and Labour endorsed his reform of Clause 4

You seem to believe that anyone not agreeing with your particular wishes cannot be a true Labour supporter. Do you not see the dogmatic folly in that?
Look, it really is simple.

Certain ideologies have core values that are non-negotiable.

You can't claim to be Jewish and then choose to eat pork.
You can't claim to be Muslim and then choose to drink alcohol.
You can't claim to be Catholic and then deny the necessity of confession.

And you can't claim to be Labour and choose to walk away from socialism.

That Blair and his supporters choose to think differently only show how hypocritical they are for doing it, and how stupid they are for thinking anyone but them buys that shite.

It really, really, really, really is THAT SIMPLE.

All The Best
To your mind maybe.

It took an NL approach to stop 18 years of Tory callousness and to do many things for the lower paid and for the unemployed.

The Old labour party failed both the working people and the country by ensuring majority Tory domination in government.

Do you want some sort of would be socialist, almost permanent opposition ?
Or do you want a government that can and does do things for the low paid and the unemployed ?

I have no doubt that in the different circumstances that now exist, the majority of those who flocked to the early the Labour movement would vote for the latter.
Correct. No point in being an MP of a Party that does not fight to win the authority in order that it can govern. The last thing we want is an Opposition Party of no-hopers. I see no possibility of a Corbyn ever being the PM of the UK and I doubt that he and his close followers believe in such. They just wish to wrestle the Labour Party from the moderate wing on the right and demand their agenda is adopted. Just watch how they will ruthlessly purge the Labour Party and install their own Place-persons.

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Heinrich
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RJD
Aug 23 2015, 01:55 PM
... No point in being an MP of a Party that does not fight to win the authority in order that it can govern. ...
On the contrary, principles matter more than power. In a proper democracy it is for a party to have a principled platform and let the people decide. It is more honorable to accept the will of the people having heard different policies and judging the records of candidates. If this means not being in power, so be it.
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RJD
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Heinrich
Aug 23 2015, 02:14 PM
RJD
Aug 23 2015, 01:55 PM
... No point in being an MP of a Party that does not fight to win the authority in order that it can govern. ...
On the contrary, principles matter more than power. In a proper democracy it is for a party to have a principled platform and let the people decide. It is more honorable to accept the will of the people having heard different policies and judging the records of candidates. If this means not being in power, so be it.
I am all for conviction politics, but such convictions need to be based in facts. And I repeat there is no point in a Political Party droning on policies that nobody believes and alienates voters, which seems to be the objective of the Corbynites. I do not believe that there is a majority of voters in the UK that believe that a Corbyn Gov. could run the Railways or any of the Utilities without requiring massive subsidies from Taxpayers. I do not believe that the vast majority of Voters, or Economists of note, believe that the Public Sector should be financed by printing money. I believe that Corbyn has gained support because he is no threat to the public, he will not gain power, when he becomes one it will drain away. The politics of the left is not yet dead across Europe, but it is rapidly becoming such. Nobody really believes in the BS anymore as they cannot see examples of success only failure.





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marybrown
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What the hell is ''apologising for the war'' going to do??

Will it change anything? ..will people who want to cut our heads off suddenly feel sorry??
Edited by marybrown, Aug 23 2015, 03:08 PM.
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gee4444
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RJD
Aug 23 2015, 07:50 AM
gee4444
Aug 22 2015, 05:45 PM
RJD
Aug 22 2015, 05:29 PM
I have just had opportunity to visit part of what was once the DDR and a local told me that when he passed his driving test at the age of 20 he registered, notifying the State that he would like to acquire a car. He received the OK, the permission, when he was 38 years of age. When I listen to Corbyn I am reminded of those sad times when the lefty Aperatchiks supped cream and the Proles queued for bread. This man is a none-entity, he has done nothing with his long years only suck on the State's tits. Maybe those that support his ideology should take a lesson in history.



You could be right - Corbyn will model himself on Stalin. Or you could be simply spouting the same old Tory propaganda drivel to insight fear. We'll let people decide for themselves.
If Corbyn wins and he could then there will be a purge of the Blairites from the Party. Corbyn has an army of very committed, dare I say it "latter day Communists", ready and willing, using any means possible to achieve their goals of fashioning the Labour Party to be Their Party. In such a situation I would expect to see the rebirth of the SDP which will attract a number from the Lib-Dems and form a new Party of Opposition. The left have no future and they are only tolerated because we feel secure and the chances of them ever governing the UK appears to be the theme of a Sci-Fi novel. "The People's QE"? You have to be kidding! Such a policy could/would to a grinding down of the value of £Sterling and lead to hyperinflation. Seems to me that Corbyn has modelled his economics on the experiences of one Mr Mugabe.

Maybe it is time as Labour currently have no settled political ID to split and form new branches on the left that represent the differing strands on the left.

Me I cannot take Corbyn as serious, more a very sad joke.

If Corbyn wins then watch very closely as the anti-democratiic forces rapidly change the rules to bolster their positions are guarantors of a continued dominance of that Party. Labour will bleed to death.
Judging by that comment it appears you actually do believe Corbyn will model himself on Stalin and even adornish it with a sprinkling of Mugabism! :facepalm:

Funny that QE with the recipients being the plebs is in your opinion a road to disaster but you're willing to tolerate QE to pump up stock markets.
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RJD
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gee4444
Aug 23 2015, 04:42 PM
RJD
Aug 23 2015, 07:50 AM
gee4444
Aug 22 2015, 05:45 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
If Corbyn wins and he could then there will be a purge of the Blairites from the Party. Corbyn has an army of very committed, dare I say it "latter day Communists", ready and willing, using any means possible to achieve their goals of fashioning the Labour Party to be Their Party. In such a situation I would expect to see the rebirth of the SDP which will attract a number from the Lib-Dems and form a new Party of Opposition. The left have no future and they are only tolerated because we feel secure and the chances of them ever governing the UK appears to be the theme of a Sci-Fi novel. "The People's QE"? You have to be kidding! Such a policy could/would to a grinding down of the value of £Sterling and lead to hyperinflation. Seems to me that Corbyn has modelled his economics on the experiences of one Mr Mugabe.

Maybe it is time as Labour currently have no settled political ID to split and form new branches on the left that represent the differing strands on the left.

Me I cannot take Corbyn as serious, more a very sad joke.

If Corbyn wins then watch very closely as the anti-democratiic forces rapidly change the rules to bolster their positions are guarantors of a continued dominance of that Party. Labour will bleed to death.
Judging by that comment it appears you actually do believe Corbyn will model himself on Stalin and even adornish it with a sprinkling of Mugabism! :facepalm:

Funny that QE with the recipients being the plebs is in your opinion a road to disaster but you're willing to tolerate QE to pump up stock markets.
You believe that The Peoples QE is equivalent to the QE carried out by the BofE in recent years. Interesting as that indicates that you have little understanding of the subject.
The allusion to Mugabe was wrt to the debauched value of currency.

Yes I think that a Corbyn if allowed to put his hair-brained policies into action would wreck the UK economy and I would not trust him or his coterie of hard liners with authority over a garden sprinkler. These people are dangerous and doubly so due to their dogmatic certainties. Corbyn may not be as evil as Stalin, but many around him certainly will be as for them "the ends always justified the means".


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Heinrich
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RJD
Aug 23 2015, 02:59 PM
Heinrich
Aug 23 2015, 02:14 PM
RJD
Aug 23 2015, 01:55 PM
... No point in being an MP of a Party that does not fight to win the authority in order that it can govern. ...
On the contrary, principles matter more than power. In a proper democracy it is for a party to have a principled platform and let the people decide. It is more honorable to accept the will of the people having heard different policies and judging the records of candidates. If this means not being in power, so be it.
I am all for conviction politics, but such convictions need to be based in facts. And I repeat there is no point in a Political Party droning on policies that nobody believes and alienates voters, which seems to be the objective of the Corbynites. I do not believe that there is a majority of voters in the UK that believe that a Corbyn Gov. could run the Railways or any of the Utilities without requiring massive subsidies from Taxpayers. I do not believe that the vast majority of Voters, or Economists of note, believe that the Public Sector should be financed by printing money. I believe that Corbyn has gained support because he is no threat to the public, he will not gain power, when he becomes one it will drain away. The politics of the left is not yet dead across Europe, but it is rapidly becoming such. Nobody really believes in the BS anymore as they cannot see examples of success only failure.





Jeremy Corbyn seems to be getting much support from the grass roots which is altogether different from your contention that what he stands for are "policies that nobody believes".
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Steve K
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Pro Veritas
Aug 22 2015, 11:22 PM
Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 09:45 PM
But that is to deny that Labour selected Blair and John Smith before him and Labour endorsed his reform of Clause 4

You seem to believe that anyone not agreeing with your particular wishes cannot be a true Labour supporter. Do you not see the dogmatic folly in that?
Look, it really is simple.

Certain ideologies have core values that are non-negotiable.

You can't claim to be Jewish and then choose to eat pork.
You can't claim to be Muslim and then choose to drink alcohol.
You can't claim to be Catholic and then deny the necessity of confession.

And you can't claim to be Labour and choose to walk away from socialism.

That Blair and his supporters choose to think differently only show how hypocritical they are for doing it, and how stupid they are for thinking anyone but them buys that shite.

It really, really, really, really is THAT SIMPLE.

All The Best
Well lets look at the English language definition of Socialism

Quote:
 
A political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.


owned or regulated by the community as a whole

So Blair WAS and IS a socialist then. Just not your flavour

As to use your analogy method, something can be an ice cream and not be vanilla.
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C-too
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Heinrich
Aug 23 2015, 02:14 PM
RJD
Aug 23 2015, 01:55 PM
... No point in being an MP of a Party that does not fight to win the authority in order that it can govern. ...
On the contrary, principles matter more than power. In a proper democracy it is for a party to have a principled platform and let the people decide. It is more honorable to accept the will of the people having heard different policies and judging the records of candidates. If this means not being in power, so be it.
You fail to understand that all parties are a broad church, brought together by many similar beliefs. By cooperating together they understand that at least some of their ideas will survive and that they do have an influence on policies. Your approach is a recipe for creating a party of whingers, somewhat like yourself.
No party, not even Corbyn's idea of a party will only consist of people with one single idea.

That may be difficult to understand for people like yourself who are so single minded.
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gee4444
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RJD
Aug 23 2015, 06:55 PM
gee4444
Aug 23 2015, 04:42 PM
RJD
Aug 23 2015, 07:50 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Judging by that comment it appears you actually do believe Corbyn will model himself on Stalin and even adornish it with a sprinkling of Mugabism! :facepalm:

Funny that QE with the recipients being the plebs is in your opinion a road to disaster but you're willing to tolerate QE to pump up stock markets.
You believe that The Peoples QE is equivalent to the QE carried out by the BofE in recent years. Interesting as that indicates that you have little understanding of the subject.
The allusion to Mugabe was wrt to the debauched value of currency.

Yes I think that a Corbyn if allowed to put his hair-brained policies into action would wreck the UK economy and I would not trust him or his coterie of hard liners with authority over a garden sprinkler. These people are dangerous and doubly so due to their dogmatic certainties. Corbyn may not be as evil as Stalin, but many around him certainly will be as for them "the ends always justified the means".


Where did I claim The Peoples QE is equivalent to the QE carried out by the BofE in recent years? Please show me.

Please go ahead and explain the difference in these two forms of QE. I've not had a good laugh for a while.

So now you say Corbyn may not be as evil as Stalin but those in the background certainly will be. As you frequently demand: Names of these tyrants in waiting and the facts that prove they are tyrants. Thankyou.
Edited by gee4444, Aug 24 2015, 06:47 PM.
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gee4444
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:tumble:
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RoofGardener
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Heinrich
Aug 22 2015, 06:28 AM
Cymru
Aug 22 2015, 06:23 AM
I wonder what Corbyn's stance on Blair being hauled before a judge to answer for war crimes is?

It might explain why Blair has been so public in his opposition to Corbyn recently, perhaps starting to feel the heat?
Tony Blair knows he is safe while he resides in Britain where there is a strong tradition of pardoning those accused of war crimes or crimes against humanity.
I BEG your pardon, Heinrich ?

Could you care to substantiate that slander ?

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somersetli
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Heinrich
Aug 22 2015, 11:39 PM
RJD
Aug 22 2015, 05:29 PM
I have just had opportunity to visit part of what was once the DDR and a local told me that when he passed his driving test at the age of 20 he registered, notifying the State that he would like to acquire a car. He received the OK, the permission, when he was 38 years of age. When I listen to Corbyn I am reminded of those sad times when the lefty Aperatchiks supped cream and the Proles queued for bread. This man is a none-entity, he has done nothing with his long years only suck on the State's tits. Maybe those that support his ideology should take a lesson in history.



There were no food banks in the DDR and everyone had a job.
2jobs in fact.
Thousands trying to escape and thousands trying to stop them.
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Heinrich
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somersetli
Aug 29 2015, 08:01 PM
Heinrich
Aug 22 2015, 11:39 PM
RJD
Aug 22 2015, 05:29 PM
I have just had opportunity to visit part of what was once the DDR and a local told me that when he passed his driving test at the age of 20 he registered, notifying the State that he would like to acquire a car. He received the OK, the permission, when he was 38 years of age. When I listen to Corbyn I am reminded of those sad times when the lefty Aperatchiks supped cream and the Proles queued for bread. This man is a none-entity, he has done nothing with his long years only suck on the State's tits. Maybe those that support his ideology should take a lesson in history.



There were no food banks in the DDR and everyone had a job.
2jobs in fact.
Thousands trying to escape and thousands trying to stop them.
Ironically, The Bundesrepublik welcomed migrants from the East without question but some Easterners today have disgraced themselves by complaining about the German government's assistance for refugees from Syria. Can you believe it? of course, they will be treated with the disregard they deserve.
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RoofGardener
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Lord of Plantpots
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So what about your slander against the UK, Heinrich ?
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