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The dilemma
Topic Started: Sep 3 2015, 07:16 AM (705 Views)
RJD
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Assuming Corbyn wins how is he going to form a Shadow Cabinet? Surely anyone with aspiration, such as current competitors would try and keep a distance?

Quote:
 
“Labour could be about to make an entire generation of future ministers radioactive. If people serve under Corbyn we’ll simply be able to say to them 'you told the British people you backed Jeremy Corbyn to be their next prime minister. Either you genuinely believed that – in which case you’re unfit for office. Or you were lying – in which case you’re unfit for office'."
It’s hard to see how anyone who served under Jeremy Corbyn – and demonstrated collective support for his agenda – would be able to “decontaminate” themselves sufficiently to have a realistic chance of winning a general election in 2020.
- Dan Hodges

LINK

It looks like a few years of internecine warfare in the Labour Camp is on the agenda, with targets for deselection doing the rounds. We will see exactly what I have been saying for years and that is that Labour still has a rump of wannabe Commies in their ranks. They were not purged by the Welsh-windbag, they just hid in closets.



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ACH1967
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RJD
Sep 3 2015, 07:16 AM
Assuming Corbyn wins how is he going to form a Shadow Cabinet? Surely anyone with aspiration, such as current competitors would try and keep a distance?

Quote:
 
“Labour could be about to make an entire generation of future ministers radioactive. If people serve under Corbyn we’ll simply be able to say to them 'you told the British people you backed Jeremy Corbyn to be their next prime minister. Either you genuinely believed that – in which case you’re unfit for office. Or you were lying – in which case you’re unfit for office'."
It’s hard to see how anyone who served under Jeremy Corbyn – and demonstrated collective support for his agenda – would be able to “decontaminate” themselves sufficiently to have a realistic chance of winning a general election in 2020.
- Dan Hodges

LINK

It looks like a few years of internecine warfare in the Labour Camp is on the agenda, with targets for deselection doing the rounds. We will see exactly what I have been saying for years and that is that Labour still has a rump of wannabe Commies in their ranks. They were not purged by the Welsh-windbag, they just hid in closets.



You are absolutely right Labour has a rump of Commies. Kind of like the rump of swivel eyed loons in the Conservative party. The rest of your points are fairly valid too though
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Heinrich
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RJD
Sep 3 2015, 07:16 AM
... Labour still has a rump of wannabe Commies in their ranks. ...



Are they under the bed?
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RJD
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Heinrich
Sep 3 2015, 07:29 AM
RJD
Sep 3 2015, 07:16 AM
... Labour still has a rump of wannabe Commies in their ranks. ...



Are they under the bed?
Not looked, but they do and have shown their true colours from time to time. Once upon a time Communists were proud of their beliefs and paraded them for all to see and hear. These days they are more like a moles or the enemy within working in the shadows and seeking to disguise their true intentions. Even Corbyn has be told be his acolytes to disguise his true intentions wrt to NATO and the Peoples QE. Get power first then spring it upon them.

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papasmurf
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Dan Hodges, David Cameron's favourite journalist, that is a bit of a clue, (that is a bit of a puzzle though, I didn't think Cameron liked swivel eyed loons.)
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Affa
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I find it ludicrous that that the Tories STILL revert to Labour being clset Communists in this day and age.
Along with all the other sound bites, used for political purposes, used to persuade the public of imaginary dangers (Trade Unions are victims of this too), and for no other reason than political advantage.

The only real justification the Tories have for telling these falsities is ....... it works.

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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 3 2015, 08:19 AM
Dan Hodges, David Cameron's favourite journalist, that is a bit of a clue, (that is a bit of a puzzle though, I didn't think Cameron liked swivel eyed loons.)
Is said Hodges not a life long member of the Labour Party? Was his mother not a Labour MP?
I suspect that Cameron likes him as he does not pull punches for the sake of the Party Line.

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RJD
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Affa
Sep 3 2015, 08:49 AM
I find it ludicrous that that the Tories STILL revert to Labour being clset Communists in this day and age.
Along with all the other sound bites, used for political purposes, used to persuade the public of imaginary dangers (Trade Unions are victims of this too), and for no other reason than political advantage.

The only real justification the Tories have for telling these falsities is ....... it works.

But it is also true and based on evidence.
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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 3 2015, 08:53 AM
But it is also true and based on evidence.
Rubbish RJD and you know it.
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Heinrich
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RJD
Sep 3 2015, 08:53 AM
Affa
Sep 3 2015, 08:49 AM
I find it ludicrous that that the Tories STILL revert to Labour being clset Communists in this day and age.
Along with all the other sound bites, used for political purposes, used to persuade the public of imaginary dangers (Trade Unions are victims of this too), and for no other reason than political advantage.

The only real justification the Tories have for telling these falsities is ....... it works.

But it is also true and based on evidence.
Have you read Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy by any chance, RJD?
You might like The Ipcress File.

Edited by Heinrich, Sep 3 2015, 09:03 AM.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 3 2015, 08:55 AM
RJD
Sep 3 2015, 08:53 AM
But it is also true and based on evidence.
Rubbish RJD and you know it.
You could never see such even if under your nose.
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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 3 2015, 09:02 AM
You could never see such even if under your nose.
RJD you are fixated on Communists. There are not enough communists to fill the back room of a pub in Britain and no Labour MP comes even close to being one, not even the Beast of Bolsover.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 3 2015, 09:04 AM
RJD
Sep 3 2015, 09:02 AM
You could never see such even if under your nose.
RJD you are fixated on Communists. There are not enough communists to fill the back room of a pub in Britain and no Labour MP comes even close to being one, not even the Beast of Bolsover.
Of course there are Communists and there are communists, it is all a matter of definition. I do not see Communists in the guise of a Joe Stalin, but I see many left wingers who would seriously like to see Clause 4 back on the Labour Party Manifesto. Now call them Socialists, call them Communists, call them whatever you like, I know exactly what their objectives are and want no part of them. The definitions these days are confused on purpose to disguise the actuality, So you call them what you will, I call them wannabe Commies.



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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 3 2015, 09:12 AM
I see many left wingers who would seriously like to see Clause 4 back on the Labour Party Manifesto.
Evidence please, (and don't say Corbyn because what he actually said and the reporting of it are two very different things.)

It also may have escaped your attention but renationalising rail has majority public support.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 3 2015, 09:16 AM
RJD
Sep 3 2015, 09:12 AM
I see many left wingers who would seriously like to see Clause 4 back on the Labour Party Manifesto.
Evidence please, (and don't say Corbyn because what he actually said and the reporting of it are two very different things.)

It also may have escaped your attention but renationalising rail has majority public support.
So what? So did a certain Adolph Hitler. Joe Public also voted for NL three times on the trot.



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Oddball
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Heinrich
Sep 3 2015, 07:29 AM
RJD
Sep 3 2015, 07:16 AM
... Labour still has a rump of wannabe Commies in their ranks. ...



Are they under the bed?
Only in sweet home Alabammy.

ps. That dates us.
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marybrown
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Oddball2
Sep 3 2015, 02:59 PM
Heinrich
Sep 3 2015, 07:29 AM
RJD
Sep 3 2015, 07:16 AM
... Labour still has a rump of wannabe Commies in their ranks. ...



Are they under the bed?
Only in sweet home Alabammy.

ps. That dates us.
Hey I saw Lynyrd Skynyrd at the Manchester Apollo..

Good show...
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Tytoalba
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ACH1967
Sep 3 2015, 07:21 AM
RJD
Sep 3 2015, 07:16 AM
Assuming Corbyn wins how is he going to form a Shadow Cabinet? Surely anyone with aspiration, such as current competitors would try and keep a distance?

Quote:
 
“Labour could be about to make an entire generation of future ministers radioactive. If people serve under Corbyn we’ll simply be able to say to them 'you told the British people you backed Jeremy Corbyn to be their next prime minister. Either you genuinely believed that – in which case you’re unfit for office. Or you were lying – in which case you’re unfit for office'."
It’s hard to see how anyone who served under Jeremy Corbyn – and demonstrated collective support for his agenda – would be able to “decontaminate” themselves sufficiently to have a realistic chance of winning a general election in 2020.
- Dan Hodges

LINK

It looks like a few years of internecine warfare in the Labour Camp is on the agenda, with targets for deselection doing the rounds. We will see exactly what I have been saying for years and that is that Labour still has a rump of wannabe Commies in their ranks. They were not purged by the Welsh-windbag, they just hid in closets.



You are absolutely right Labour has a rump of Commies. Kind of like the rump of swivel eyed loons in the Conservative party. The rest of your points are fairly valid too though
Swivelled eyed loons are individuals, with differing agenda. Communists are a political movement in their own rights. Not the same thing at all. Of course your interpretation of swivveld eyed loony's is open to individual interpretation, whilst there is no doubt what a group of communists stand for.
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Lewis
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RJD
Sep 3 2015, 08:53 AM
Affa
Sep 3 2015, 08:49 AM
I find it ludicrous that that the Tories STILL revert to Labour being clset Communists in this day and age.
Along with all the other sound bites, used for political purposes, used to persuade the public of imaginary dangers (Trade Unions are victims of this too), and for no other reason than political advantage.

The only real justification the Tories have for telling these falsities is ....... it works.

But it is also true and based on evidence.
Well produce the evidence!
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papasmurf
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Lewis
Sep 3 2015, 05:19 PM
Well produce the evidence!
Quite. But in RJD's case:-



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johnofgwent
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Heinrich
Sep 3 2015, 09:01 AM
RJD
Sep 3 2015, 08:53 AM
Affa
Sep 3 2015, 08:49 AM
I find it ludicrous that that the Tories STILL revert to Labour being clset Communists in this day and age.
Along with all the other sound bites, used for political purposes, used to persuade the public of imaginary dangers (Trade Unions are victims of this too), and for no other reason than political advantage.

The only real justification the Tories have for telling these falsities is ....... it works.

But it is also true and based on evidence.
Have you read Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy by any chance, RJD?
You might like The Ipcress File.

Have YOU researched the biography of the former mp for pontypridd and how well he fared under blair ?

Before you rubbish claims of communists in the cabinet and so on you really should ...
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Now with all that bollocks out of tge way lets get back to the OP

I think if ... or rather WHEN corbyn wins, the sleazy lying fuckers who prospered under blair and brown's patronage will probably fall over themselves to ingratiate themselves with the new boss.

Its what lying sleazeballs do after all
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Heinrich
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johnofgwent
Sep 3 2015, 07:12 PM
Now with all that bollocks out of tge way lets get back to the OP

I think if ... or rather WHEN corbyn wins, the sleazy lying fuckers who prospered under blair and brown's patronage will probably fall over themselves to ingratiate themselves with the new boss.

Its what lying sleazeballs do after all
I regret I do not know about the former MP for Pontypridd, John. I wonder if he was a spy who came in from the cold.

As for politicians being opportunists, there are those who will say and do anything to keep their jobs. They change loyalties like a carnelian.
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gee4444
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Of course RJD attacks Socialist ideals. They oppose the ideals of the plutocrats and oligarchs he fawns over. His continual references to Stalin (and now even Hitler) as examples of 'Socialists' in power is the policy of fear mongering - a very effective technique.

Corbyn supports Unions. He has suggested state control of industries that produce fundamental resources and services would be of benefit to the masses. RJD argues the state is incompetent at managing such based upon previous history (while ignoring the much longer history of abuse of the massess for the benefit of the few). The truth is these policies would remove a vast source of wealth plundered by the few and must be derided at all costs.

But most worrying of all is he claims to have originated from a working class background and while a majority of that demographic share his ideals (I believe because of the brainwashing that individualism is the best way) then England will never change. Preaching Socialist ideals to selfish individuals is a waste of time and effort. Their mindsets need to be addressed first and that can only be done via a sound education - which is a preserve of the priviledged few. So in conclusion - we're fooked.
Edited by gee4444, Sep 3 2015, 07:29 PM.
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gee4444
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johnofgwent
Sep 3 2015, 07:12 PM
Now with all that bollocks out of tge way lets get back to the OP

I think if ... or rather WHEN corbyn wins, the sleazy lying fuckers who prospered under blair and brown's patronage will probably fall over themselves to ingratiate themselves with the new boss.

Its what lying sleazeballs do after all
I disagree. Many NL stalwarts (I actually think some may be Tory plants!) are far too invested in their Tory light beliefs to accept Corbyn's left wing ideals (Burnham excepted - he'll say anything to gain power). I expect there to be a split and I think it's for the best. Better to lance a boil and suffer the short and sharp pain than to let it continue to fester.
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Heinrich
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gee4444
Sep 3 2015, 07:28 PM
johnofgwent
Sep 3 2015, 07:12 PM
Now with all that bollocks out of tge way lets get back to the OP

I think if ... or rather WHEN corbyn wins, the sleazy lying fuckers who prospered under blair and brown's patronage will probably fall over themselves to ingratiate themselves with the new boss.

Its what lying sleazeballs do after all
I disagree. Many NL stalwarts (I actually think some may be Tory plants!) are far too invested in their Tory light beliefs to accept Corbyn's left wing ideals (Burnham excepted - he'll say anything to gain power). I expect there to be a split and I think it's for the best. Better to lance a boil and suffer the short and sharp pain than to let it continue to fester.
Tony Blair was clever and capable enough to destroy the Labour Party, replacing it with New Labour, a conservative party. They were in power as a result for over a decade. Except for Jeremy Corbyn, who never became New Labour, the other three candidates for leadership of the party cannot get the message that the Tories are better conservatives than New Labour which was an aberration. New Labour lost the Scottish vote and the old socialist ideology was embraced there by the Scottish National Party who well understand that most of the English voters are conservative now. Should Jeremy Corbyn resurrect the Labour legacy, they will be unelectable but they will stand for something once again and build a new base among the young and English people of principle.
Edited by Heinrich, Sep 3 2015, 07:43 PM.
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Heinrich
Sep 3 2015, 07:20 PM
johnofgwent
Sep 3 2015, 07:12 PM
Now with all that bollocks out of tge way lets get back to the OP

I think if ... or rather WHEN corbyn wins, the sleazy lying fuckers who prospered under blair and brown's patronage will probably fall over themselves to ingratiate themselves with the new boss.

Its what lying sleazeballs do after all
I regret I do not know about the former MP for Pontypridd, John. I wonder if he was a spy who came in from the cold.

As for politicians being opportunists, there are those who will say and do anything to keep their jobs. They change loyalties like a carnelian.
He was a paid officer if the communist party and the man responsible ... in the sense of organising the picketing activities of ... two men who killed a taxi driver taking a non union miner to work by dropping a concrete block onto his cab.

When police came to interview him they found him frantically shredding documents regarding his coordination of the strikers.

He joined the labour party and enjoyed his path to privy counselorship.

Not bad for a disciple of Marx ..
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Heinrich
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johnofgwent
Sep 3 2015, 07:55 PM
Heinrich
Sep 3 2015, 07:20 PM
johnofgwent
Sep 3 2015, 07:12 PM
Now with all that bollocks out of tge way lets get back to the OP

I think if ... or rather WHEN corbyn wins, the sleazy lying fuckers who prospered under blair and brown's patronage will probably fall over themselves to ingratiate themselves with the new boss.

Its what lying sleazeballs do after all
I regret I do not know about the former MP for Pontypridd, John. I wonder if he was a spy who came in from the cold.

As for politicians being opportunists, there are those who will say and do anything to keep their jobs. They change loyalties like a carnelian.
He was a paid officer if the communist party and the man responsible ... in the sense of organising the picketing activities of ... two men who killed a taxi driver taking a non union miner to work by dropping a concrete block onto his cab.

When police came to interview him they found him frantically shredding documents regarding his coordination of the strikers.

He joined the labour party and enjoyed his path to privy counselorship.

Not bad for a disciple of Marx ..
He sounds like an unethical opportunist to me. He likely never read a word of Karl Marx.
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Affa
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johnofgwent
Sep 3 2015, 07:12 PM

Its what lying sleazeballs do after all
I at one time was of the opinion that what you described here was exactly what was required to govern the nation ....... I changed when i witnessed how damaging it can be when the perpetrators do not have the nation's prosperity as their objective .........
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Tigger
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Tytoalba
Sep 3 2015, 04:20 PM
Swivelled eyed loons are individuals, with differing agenda. Communists are a political movement in their own rights. Not the same thing at all. Of course your interpretation of swivveld eyed loony's is open to individual interpretation, whilst there is no doubt what a group of communists stand for.
Especially dire even for you, where the hell did you get the idea that there are "communists" in the Labour party? :-[

I've just been flicking through the latest edition of Private Eye and there is a section YOU should take some time out to read, Corbyn's words in various speeches have been deliberately and dishonestly misquoted by our totally shite right wing press, many of his comments have been taken completely out of context and with frankly blatant lies replacing his own words, the word libel comes to mind to when reading some of this horseshit that you and thousands of others lap us like obedient little lapdogs......


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Tigger
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RJD
Sep 3 2015, 09:12 AM
Of course there are Communists and there are communists, it is all a matter of definition. I do not see Communists in the guise of a Joe Stalin, but I see many left wingers who would seriously like to see Clause 4 back on the Labour Party Manifesto.
Grade A+ drivel..............
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Tigger
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gee4444
Sep 3 2015, 07:24 PM


But most worrying of all is he claims to have originated from a working class background and while a majority of that demographic share his ideals (I believe because of the brainwashing that individualism is the best way) then England will never change.
The only emotion stronger than "individualism" in the average hard right winger is self pity...........
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Jonksy
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RJD
Sep 3 2015, 08:53 AM
Affa
Sep 3 2015, 08:49 AM
I find it ludicrous that that the Tories STILL revert to Labour being clset Communists in this day and age.
Along with all the other sound bites, used for political purposes, used to persuade the public of imaginary dangers (Trade Unions are victims of this too), and for no other reason than political advantage.

The only real justification the Tories have for telling these falsities is ....... it works.

But it is also true and based on evidence.
Then you won't mind posting this evidence then will you?
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Heinrich
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Affa
Sep 3 2015, 09:10 PM
johnofgwent
Sep 3 2015, 07:12 PM

Its what lying sleazeballs do after all
I at one time was of the opinion that what you described here was exactly what was required to govern the nation ....... I changed when i witnessed how damaging it can be when the perpetrators do not have the nation's prosperity as their objective .........
The problem with a concept like "the nation's prosperity" is that it ends up in the pockets of bankers, financiers, and chief executive officers, instead of the country's services, schools, and hospitals.
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RJD
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Heinrich
Sep 4 2015, 02:41 AM
Affa
Sep 3 2015, 09:10 PM
johnofgwent
Sep 3 2015, 07:12 PM

Its what lying sleazeballs do after all
I at one time was of the opinion that what you described here was exactly what was required to govern the nation ....... I changed when i witnessed how damaging it can be when the perpetrators do not have the nation's prosperity as their objective .........
The problem with a concept like "the nation's prosperity" is that it ends up in the pockets of bankers, financiers, and chief executive officers, instead of the country's services, schools, and hospitals.
Really? You think that the amounts gained by such people totally outweigh that received by the rest of the working population together?
The "nation's prosperity" does not mean that all individuals who make up the nation have a God given right to an equal share. That's Marxist bull.

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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 4 2015, 07:30 AM
You think that the amounts gained by such people totally outweigh that received by the rest of the working population together?


It happens to be a fact RJD, not a thought.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 4 2015, 07:33 AM
RJD
Sep 4 2015, 07:30 AM
You think that the amounts gained by such people totally outweigh that received by the rest of the working population together?


It happens to be a fact RJD, not a thought.
Love to see that. Be careful not to confuse assets values with revenues. IRevenues is the subject matter here.
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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 4 2015, 07:36 AM
Love to see that. Be careful not to confuse assets values with revenues.
Why? The filthy rich have got filthy richer, and CEOs pay has gone up several hundred percent since 2008, whilst Joe Public has had next to eff all or eff all in pay rises since 2008.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 4 2015, 07:41 AM
RJD
Sep 4 2015, 07:36 AM
Love to see that. Be careful not to confuse assets values with revenues.
Why? The filthy rich have got filthy richer, and CEOs pay has gone up several hundred percent since 2008, whilst Joe Public has had next to eff all or eff all in pay rises since 2008.
That is not proof. Try and stick to the claim if able.

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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 4 2015, 07:59 AM
That is not proof. Try and stick to the claim if able.

RJD don't you EVER watch any news and current affairs. (You are always referencing the Torygraph, there has been a lot of detail about it over the past year.)
If I referenced proof you wouldn't read it.
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