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| Labour Leadership Contest; merged thread | |
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| Topic Started: May 15 2015, 01:02 PM (2,236 Views) | |
| Tytoalba | May 15 2015, 01:02 PM Post #1 |
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Chuka Umunna withdraws Labour leader bid, Who is left to lead them? The BBC has been attacking UKIP and Farrage for days, but at least they have a leader. Labour are in a state of uncertainty, and we do need a good opposition in the HOC, |
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| Tigger | May 16 2015, 10:52 PM Post #41 |
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You can answer your own question here if you want, can you think why they might not trust the public to vote in the "correct" way? And you must stop saying "we" when you mean you, you are not the voice or spokesperson of public opinion, something you need to start understanding. |
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| Tigger | May 16 2015, 10:57 PM Post #42 |
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Garbage. You automatically assume they'll impoverish themselves and then expect you to pay for it, and that's a nice little dig at the tourist industry, presumably based on little more than your barely disguised contempt for the Scots and their decision to reject Westminster. And then you wonder why many find the English intolerable bores.......
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| Steve K | May 16 2015, 10:57 PM Post #43 |
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Once and future cynic
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By all accounts (and I know people that have worked with him) Murphy is an honest hard working guy that cares But he has the leadership ability of a dead duck - which coincidentally is what he was even before the polling stations opened on the 7th. Should have resigned same night once the SNP MP count went past 30 |
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| Rich | May 16 2015, 11:04 PM Post #44 |
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Surely you are wrong there for ALL parties tell us that we are all as one with regards to being a nation, Labour, tory, Lib dems all refer to their theology as being a one nation and all in it together therefore WE is the correct word, personally I think it is all a load of bollocks...but as you correctly tell me all the time....what do I know, how I wish you were in charge and could lead this country to success, after all, with what you profess to know and have apparently achieved in life you must be at least 200 years old. |
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| Tigger | May 16 2015, 11:16 PM Post #45 |
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You mean I disagree with your homespun logic? And England is rapidly descending into anything but a single nation let alone the component parts of the UK which are brimming with indignation at the behaviour of Westminster et al in the last few years. It's a shame you are getting on a bit, five years working abroad might broaden your outlook and cure you of your patriotic self regard that frankly blinds you. |
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| Heinrich | May 17 2015, 01:11 AM Post #46 |
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Regular Guy
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Blairite Jim Murphy insulted the Scottish voters by treating their choice of SNP with contempt. He is the loser. |
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| Tytoalba | May 17 2015, 03:36 PM Post #47 |
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The contempt for the Union is coming from North of the border. They like to think that only they have all the choices and the rest of us must comply , but as the whole thing is divisive . then expect the divisions and resentments to increase South of the border. I get my Electricity supplied by from Scottish power, and I have investments in SAINTS , and in British assets, both run by Scottish investment houses, giving employment to many Scots people. It could be time for a change. There are always unfrozen, consequences, and there is more than one player in the game. If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that. |
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| gee4444 | May 17 2015, 04:20 PM Post #48 |
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Just got around to listening to it. Nothing remarkably new in the comments to be honest. I don't think Burnham is witty or sharp enough to handle Cammers' rhetoric at the despatch box which seems to be the important issue in terms of public perceptions. Labour need someone quicker on their feet with the ability to shame him and his policies via an articulate tongue lashing (as opposed to the type of lashing he probably prefers) - in my opinion. |
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| Steve K | May 17 2015, 04:39 PM Post #49 |
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Once and future cynic
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He did very well on the Marr programme earlier today. Still looked a bit not fully baked but he was credible |
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| Heinrich | May 17 2015, 04:41 PM Post #50 |
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Regular Guy
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You are right. A problem for New Aspiration Labour is that the party is short of talent. |
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| Tigger | May 17 2015, 05:13 PM Post #51 |
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At times you live in a parallel universe that seems to be unaware of recent history, for almost thirty years Scotland has been treated as a second class nation by Westminster and as a result has drifted away, that's a fact. And what the hell are you on about when you say the rest of us must comply with what the Scots want? :-\ Frankly it's self pitying crap! And threatening to remove your investments FFS! Are you aware that Scottish power is owned by a Spanish company? Or are you now showing your true colours and pretending that democracy only applies south of the border? And I'll tell you this for nothing your generic patronising smugness and that from Westminster is the main reason the Scots have voted the way they have and the sad thing is it didn't have to be this way. Edited by Tigger, May 17 2015, 05:18 PM.
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| Nonsense | May 18 2015, 10:52 PM Post #52 |
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Part of Labour's problem is, their MP's are,like today's youth, trained like Pavlovian dogs to obey the 'leader' & NEVER,EVER go 'off message' by thinking independently.. It's that block on Labour MP's ability to express a personal opinion on policies or political philosophy that is really damaging to the party. You cannot advance ideas if one has a muzzle on one's thoughts about politics. In my opinion, Labour will not make progress because the 'old guard' are still in place & the young contenders are of the brainwashed variety without a hope of achieving anything at all. |
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| RJD | May 19 2015, 07:13 AM Post #53 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Brain washed as students, then become passive place-persons on Political Lists with subsidies/bungs to vote the way they are told. How many of these and those on the other benches have actually ever accrued real World experience before claiming their sinecures and toeing The Party Line? An image: Ed Milliband with a school cap and short trousers sitting in a very large chair with his feet 12" from the ground. That was in Joe Voter's mind. |
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| Tytoalba | May 19 2015, 10:19 AM Post #54 |
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If he Scots are concerned about English attitudes towards them then why should not the same attitudes be reciprocated if the Scottish resentments become so overt to the point of seeking independence.? Devolution and separation is not a one way street Tigger.. We have seen that already with claims of English votes for English Laws. and in some instances a call for a separate English Parliament. Scottish Power still has call centres in Scotland, with Scots earning a living from English consumers. It is wise to see beyond the box and to look for the unforeseen consequences . |
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| Tytoalba | May 19 2015, 10:25 AM Post #55 |
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All good people agree, And all good people say, All nice people, like Us, are We And every one else is They: But if you cross over the sea, Instead of over the way, You may end by (think of it!) looking on We As only a sort of They! |
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| C-too | May 19 2015, 11:35 AM Post #56 |
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Good points. |
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| C-too | May 19 2015, 11:50 AM Post #57 |
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All parties may claim to be for one nation, that doesn't mean all have the same picture of a one nation in mind. My idea of a one nation party is not one that stands by and allows 17 years of high/mass unemployment with all the damaging knock-on effects it creates for society. I'm not impressed by a government that prevails over a growing number of people in part time work and a growing number of people on Zero Hour Contracts. Some justification may be found for this at the present time and it may have been more acceptable IF the government had been more honest about the situation. |
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| RJD | May 20 2015, 11:35 AM Post #58 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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"Knock knock". "Who is there"? "Your prospective Labour MP". "What do you want"? "Got any good ideas as we seem to run out of them at Party HQ"? "Doesn't matter what, anything that attracts votes will do"! "Go take a long holiday in the political Wilderness". |
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| C-too | May 20 2015, 02:58 PM Post #59 |
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The good ideas are already in place they will just require a little retuning when the Tory masters in the form NL return. Enjoy doing your damage while you can.
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| RJD | May 20 2015, 03:32 PM Post #60 |
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Could you mention a few of the key ones? Seems to me that the new contenders are rejecting the baggage from the most recent Manifesto asap. Mansion Tax - gone Non-doms - gone very quiet. Higher rate taxation - disappeared into the ether. Rejection of the need for a referendum on the EU - forgotten. Lies on the years of Brown's profligacy - finally overturned and yes, OK, yes we did spend too much and we won't do that again so trust us. NHS - gone quiet after 50 years of claiming that the Tories are going to privatise the whole shooting match in the next 10 minutes. Education - schtum Industry - yep we need to learn to love those Entrepreneurs, those Movers and Shakers that we have absolutely no idea what they do or are about, but we need them to. So what you got left C2? Maybe you are waiting for HQ to get you back on message. Be patient. |
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| C-too | May 21 2015, 06:09 AM Post #61 |
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Ed's policies are not NL policies. My reference was to NL inclusiveness policies, so your rabbiting on about Ed's makes no sense. Another case of you imposing your own agenda. Edited by C-too, May 21 2015, 06:10 AM.
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| RJD | May 21 2015, 06:39 AM Post #62 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Ed's policies were Labour's policies it said so on the Manifesto. Now we see that in truth, after declaring otherwise, the Usuals easily dump that which did not but them votes. So "Please Mr Voter tell me your policy requirements and if there are enough votes in them I will adopt them" seems to be the modus. I really do not understand why Labour is rushing to find a new Leader? It will be in opposition for the next 5 to 10 years, so why rush? Why not take their time and look to skip those tainted by Blair, Brown and now Milliband? I do not see how Burnham will live down his time at the NHS and his flip flopping, not to mention Stoke, not to mention McK. I do not see how Cooper can hide the fact that she is/was part of the Brown/Balls cabal. And lets face it it is now a two horse race. Looks increasingly like "Extinct-Labour" as neither of those two will ever swing the electorate and there is a mountain to climb and both of the Contenders did sign up for the Milliband Manifesto. Also do not forget that Cameron is on a roll and will consolidate the centre ground leaving not an inch for Labour to elbow their way in and he has Osborne designing the play. |
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| Heinrich | May 21 2015, 04:36 PM Post #63 |
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They would be sensible to wait until their next Conference and, yes, they should avoid anyone who supported New Labour. They should leave it to the Tories to be Tories. |
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| Rich | May 21 2015, 07:13 PM Post #64 |
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As far as the thread title is concerned, the way it is going will result in a one horse race, nobody in their right mind wants to take up the poisoned chalice, although all are quick to stab their previous leader in the back |
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| AndyK | May 21 2015, 09:28 PM Post #65 |
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In what way were the Scots treated as second class? That's a genuine question by the way. |
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| Tigger | May 21 2015, 09:47 PM Post #66 |
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Scotland is a long way from Westminster, and the policies affecting Scotland reflected that. A good friend of mine cited getting to try out the Poll Tax a full year before it was imposed on England as one of his pivotal moments. Sometimes the English forget they are no longer the masters, not even of themselves sometimes........... |
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| Tytoalba | May 21 2015, 10:21 PM Post #67 |
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Texas is a long way from Washington, and some states are so big that it takes longer to get from some parts of it to their legislature and is many times the distance than from London to Edinburgh and distance to them is never an argument .Scotland is represented by 58 MPS So distance is not a problem, One can communicate online face to face, and Emails are instantaneous. It worked well enough when stage coaches and Horses were the means of travel followed by Express trains, and now by aircraft and helicopter. Its not true to say Scotland or Wales are too distant to be properly represented in Westminster . That is just an argument to try to make spurious claims. In Blairs Government the Cabinet was well over represented by Scotsmen.it was them that caused the problems we see today. |
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| Tytoalba | May 21 2015, 10:27 PM Post #68 |
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Scotland seems to have a disproportionate amount of pivotal moments, whist others will just see it as national whinging and looking for excuses for all their own problems. It was thought the Scots would appreciate the poll tax as the fairest way of collecting council taxes, but the left used it as a political weapon, for they feared their supporters would not register to vote on the voters register as they would not want to pay their fair share, and you had to be registered to pay it. Bring it back I say. |
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| Tigger | May 21 2015, 10:34 PM Post #69 |
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Unintentional comedy gold! Who thought the Scots would appreciate it? You exhibit brazen high handedness and patronising arrogance and then you wonder why they want to go their own way! Edited by Tigger, May 21 2015, 10:35 PM.
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| Tytoalba | May 22 2015, 10:01 AM Post #70 |
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When do you move Northwards Tigger. or are you going to continue enjoying the fruits of working in England? Nothing wrong in being patriotic, in fact I am that way myself,f but one really has to look at what is in our best interests in the long run, that is taking the pragmatic approach. You cannot survive on unrealistic dreams. Six million Scots count for little in our world of 7 billions. and I doubt that most of the world have ever heard of them, except in association with Englamd and Wales. I watch BBC Wales news, a parochial lot if ever there were, and they were reporting last night on the lack of investment ,decline in their economy, and the poor results in their educational standards and the standards of the NHS compared with the rest of the UK There are three million people in Wales, 20% 0r more who are English, and they really would have difficulty in standing alone Their left wing run Government is failing at every turn, with the Welsh Nationalists losing support, and the Conservative gaining it, yet still claiming they want independence, along with more money from the Westminster Government. Bit like Scotland really. dreams before reality. Beware of what you ask for you might get it. With appreciation to Kipling. THERE are four good legs to my Father's Chair– Scotland , England Ireland and Wales I sits on all of 'em fair and square, And that is reason it never fails,. I won't trust one leg, nor two, nor three, To carry my weight when I sets me down. I wants all four of 'em under me– Scotland England Ireland and Wales I sits on all four and favours none– England Scotland Ireland and Wales And I never tilts in my chair, my son, And that is the reason it don't break down. When your time comes to sit in my Chair, Remember your Father's habits and rules, Sit on all four legs, fair and square, And never be tempted by one-legged stools! |
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| Tigger | May 22 2015, 09:24 PM Post #71 |
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I'm not going anywhere, this is my country just as much as yours. Unfortunately dim, self regarding fools like you are in danger of making this nation a laughing stock, you see the World is a far bigger place than England and the globe does not hang on our every word, we either start acting like grown up's, stop looking to stitch up our friends and co operate instead of practising pathetic divide and rule which in truth no one outside of England falls for these days. I'm sure you'll have a crap poem for that as well. |
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| jaguar | May 24 2015, 11:49 AM Post #72 |
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TAKEN FROM ANOTHER FORUM. Lord Prescott backing Andy Burnham He was Health Secretary at height of the Mid Staffs hospital scandal Andy Burnham presided over a culture of denial and cover-up over NHS care scandals that cost lives in failing hospitals across the country. 'From ignoring repeated warnings about high hospital death rates, to dodging calls for a public inquiry, Andy Burnham put politics before patients every time. 'Worse still, several experts have independently testified that under his leadership there was political pressure to present good news rather than expose poor care. 'Still today, he shows no remorse, has offered no apology and accepts no wrongdoing. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3b3SwohsH Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook |
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| RJD | May 24 2015, 01:36 PM Post #73 |
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Such reports for him were an unwelcome distraction. How dare the Taxpayers complain. Funny thing is that I get 24/7 coverage with the VET and there are three to chose from within 7 miles of where I live. Opticians in abundance offering the latest and greatest at competitive prices. The only service where prices have not reduced is Dentistry, but that is very labour intensive, that said I have four practices to chose from. As for health care I have used both the State Soviet and private and I avoid the former like the plague, but I have to travel all the way to England to get the services I require. That State monopoly needs a good dose of competition. I know lets make GP's compete for our custom. |
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| Opinionater | May 24 2015, 03:33 PM Post #74 |
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More to the point who is going to be the new leader? Who would be best for labours left, labours right and who would the Tories like to win? |
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| RJD | May 24 2015, 05:09 PM Post #75 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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The Tories want Milliband to come back. If not him then Burnham as he is tainted and a serial flip-flopper. Me I like Rachel, she is a true pinko Tory. |
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| Opinionater | May 24 2015, 05:22 PM Post #76 |
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I think we can take it as read that Milliband will not return. I think I agree Burnham would be the Tory choice. But who do Labour want, do you think they know? |
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| Heinrich | May 24 2015, 06:30 PM Post #77 |
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The Tories would like to see Burnham as the leader of New Labour because he has the accent from a working class northern family and has a swarthy look. Southern English Tory toffs will have great fun mocking him in their Parliament. |
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| Rich | May 24 2015, 06:32 PM Post #78 |
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What makes you so sure that he will win the leadership contest? |
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| C-too | May 25 2015, 08:53 AM Post #79 |
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You could begin with finding a more politically reliable source of assessment than the Daily Mail. Then you might look at the appalling state of the NHS during the 18 years of Tory administration along with their failure to avoid a deadly Hospital Acquired Infection spreading through the NHS, just for comparisons and background. And then look at the amazing transformation of the NHS under New Labour. Your hatchet job on Burnham requires an unbiased objective assessment of the situation, otherwise much/all of it might be dismissed as insinuations and propaganda produced by the Tory fear of NL making a come back. .Edited by C-too, May 25 2015, 08:54 AM.
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| Heinrich | May 25 2015, 08:57 AM Post #80 |
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I am not so sure that he will win but he is the favorite because, primarily, traditional core Labour voters will see that he looks and sounds northern working class; "One of ours, our Andy is." He also has New Labour credentials which, while a drawback for the left, can appeal to those on the right who have the aspiration to be middle class and beat the Tories at their own game. In other words, he perfectly meets the bill as someone who stands for nothing to lead a party that lost its reason for existence once they allowed Tony Blair to change it to be indistinguishable from the Tories in policy. |
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