|
Replies:
|
|
papasmurf
|
Aug 19 2015, 12:09 PM
Post #801
|
- Posts:
- 17,271
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #13
- Joined:
- Jun 27, 2014
|
- gansao
- Aug 19 2015, 12:06 PM
Yup. We might get another Tory government that calls itself Labour.
Quite. Also apparently I was wrong I do have a vote in the Labour leadership contest. (Letter in the post when I got back from holiday.)
|
|
|
| |
|
C-too
|
Aug 19 2015, 12:30 PM
Post #802
|
- Posts:
- 17,666
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #49
- Joined:
- Jul 12, 2014
|
- gansao
- Aug 19 2015, 12:06 PM
- krugerman
- Aug 19 2015, 11:34 AM
The word on the ground is that Jeremy Corbyn will not be allowed to win I state this information as a Labour Party member, but the information has come from a Mr William James Kirkbride, who is a Labour councillor in Whitehaven and an official of the party. This is what William has written in a Labour Party forum :
"EF, if he fails on the 50% its over, if he does then the PLP will remove him"
" Its not a plot, its using the party rules"
"Mark, JC will not be allowed to win"
" The PLP require 20% to start a ballot of the PLP. That is 44 members, at this moment the papers would be signed by 87"
"Mr Deville, after the removal of JC the party will conduct a purge in the same fashion that Lord Kinnock did"
"Calling elected members of the Labour Party, secret Tories is bringing the party into disrepute. Those people will be removed"
"These sites are being inspected as we type, all who have involved themselves in attacks on elected members of the house will see what happens when JC is gone"
"I will not discuss the matter until Sept 15th. By then JC will already have broken the story"
"JC already knows that the PLP will seek a fresh leadership election should he get more than the 50%"
This is on one hand rather sad, but on the other hand it could be exciting times ahead, another realignment of the left and a purge of the old antique socialists holding Labour back, there might actually be another 1997 style landslide in 2020.
Yup. We might get another Tory government that calls itself Labour. To my knowledge we have never had one. All we have had are accusations of one from the malcontents and the subversives who can't see the damage their attitudes inflict upon working people.
Since 1951 and despite many failures by the Tories the UK had 40 years in opposition for Old Labour. That should be warning enough for those who wish to do their best for working people.
Edited by C-too, Aug 19 2015, 12:31 PM.
|
|
|
| |
|
C-too
|
Aug 19 2015, 01:06 PM
Post #803
|
- Posts:
- 17,666
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #49
- Joined:
- Jul 12, 2014
|
- papasmurf
- Aug 19 2015, 12:09 PM
- gansao
- Aug 19 2015, 12:06 PM
Yup. We might get another Tory government that calls itself Labour.
Quite. Also apparently I was wrong I do have a vote in the Labour leadership contest. (Letter in the post when I got back from holiday.) Ed-the-gone, Corbyn-the-naïve, Labour-the-unready with their future in the hands of so many malcontents who will cut off their nose to spite their face as they pursue their own personal emotional needs.
The UK OBVIOUSLY needs a new party that can attract from around the centre of politics, using the good from both the left and the right of politics while focusing on an inclusive, one nation society. Corbyn-the-naïve is not the only one who can dream.
Edited by C-too, Aug 19 2015, 02:50 PM.
|
|
|
| |
|
Lewis
|
Aug 19 2015, 01:20 PM
Post #804
|
- Posts:
- 3,478
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #10
- Joined:
- Jun 27, 2014
|
- gansao
- Aug 19 2015, 12:06 PM
- krugerman
- Aug 19 2015, 11:34 AM
The word on the ground is that Jeremy Corbyn will not be allowed to win
I state this information as a Labour Party member, but the information has come from a Mr William James Kirkbride, who is a Labour councillor in Whitehaven and an official of the party.
This is what William has written in a Labour Party forum :
"EF, if he fails on the 50% its over, if he does then the PLP will remove him"
" Its not a plot, its using the party rules"
"Mark, JC will not be allowed to win"
" The PLP require 20% to start a ballot of the PLP. That is 44 members, at this moment the papers would be signed by 87"
"Mr Deville, after the removal of JC the party will conduct a purge in the same fashion that Lord Kinnock did"
"Calling elected members of the Labour Party, secret Tories is bringing the party into disrepute. Those people will be removed"
"These sites are being inspected as we type, all who have involved themselves in attacks on elected members of the house will see what happens when JC is gone"
"I will not discuss the matter until Sept 15th. By then JC will already have broken the story"
"JC already knows that the PLP will seek a fresh leadership election should he get more than the 50%"
This is on one hand rather sad, but on the other hand it could be exciting times ahead, another realignment of the left and a purge of the old antique socialists holding Labour back, there might actually be another 1997 style landslide in 2020.
Yup. We might get another Tory government that calls itself Labour. Better Tory lite than the extremist right wing government we have now!
|
|
|
| |
|
ACH1967
|
Aug 19 2015, 01:41 PM
Post #805
|
- Posts:
- 4,225
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #56
- Joined:
- Jul 24, 2014
|
Quick quiz. Which of these is extreme right wing behavior?
A Introducing a bedroom tax that costs 14 quid more a week B Gassing millions of Jews
|
|
|
| |
|
Deleted User
|
Aug 19 2015, 01:51 PM
Post #806
|
|
Deleted User
|
- Lewis
- Aug 19 2015, 01:20 PM
- gansao
- Aug 19 2015, 12:06 PM
- krugerman
- Aug 19 2015, 11:34 AM
The word on the ground is that Jeremy Corbyn will not be allowed to win
I state this information as a Labour Party member, but the information has come from a Mr William James Kirkbride, who is a Labour councillor in Whitehaven and an official of the party.
This is what William has written in a Labour Party forum :
"EF, if he fails on the 50% its over, if he does then the PLP will remove him"
" Its not a plot, its using the party rules"
"Mark, JC will not be allowed to win"
" The PLP require 20% to start a ballot of the PLP. That is 44 members, at this moment the papers would be signed by 87"
"Mr Deville, after the removal of JC the party will conduct a purge in the same fashion that Lord Kinnock did"
"Calling elected members of the Labour Party, secret Tories is bringing the party into disrepute. Those people will be removed"
"These sites are being inspected as we type, all who have involved themselves in attacks on elected members of the house will see what happens when JC is gone"
"I will not discuss the matter until Sept 15th. By then JC will already have broken the story"
"JC already knows that the PLP will seek a fresh leadership election should he get more than the 50%"
This is on one hand rather sad, but on the other hand it could be exciting times ahead, another realignment of the left and a purge of the old antique socialists holding Labour back, there might actually be another 1997 style landslide in 2020.
Yup. We might get another Tory government that calls itself Labour.
Better Tory lite than the extremist right wing government we have now!
Why? The present Labour mob would do exactly what the Tories are doing. Better a government that works for the majority rather than the elite.
|
|
|
| |
|
Heinrich
|
Aug 19 2015, 02:35 PM
Post #807
|
- Posts:
- 2,920
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #51
- Joined:
- Jul 22, 2014
|
- krugerman
- Aug 19 2015, 11:34 AM
The word on the ground is that Jeremy Corbyn will not be allowed to win
I state this information as a Labour Party member, but the information has come from a Mr William James Kirkbride, who is a Labour councillor in Whitehaven and an official of the party.
This is what William has written in a Labour Party forum :
"EF, if he fails on the 50% its over, if he does then the PLP will remove him"
" Its not a plot, its using the party rules"
"Mark, JC will not be allowed to win"
" The PLP require 20% to start a ballot of the PLP. That is 44 members, at this moment the papers would be signed by 87"
"Mr Deville, after the removal of JC the party will conduct a purge in the same fashion that Lord Kinnock did"
"Calling elected members of the Labour Party, secret Tories is bringing the party into disrepute. Those people will be removed"
"These sites are being inspected as we type, all who have involved themselves in attacks on elected members of the house will see what happens when JC is gone"
"I will not discuss the matter until Sept 15th. By then JC will already have broken the story"
"JC already knows that the PLP will seek a fresh leadership election should he get more than the 50%"
This is on one hand rather sad, but on the other hand it could be exciting times ahead, another realignment of the left and a purge of the old antique socialists holding Labour back, there might actually be another 1997 style landslide in 2020.
I would not put it past the New Labour MPs. They are rotten to the core.
|
|
|
| |
|
Deleted User
|
Aug 19 2015, 02:37 PM
Post #808
|
|
Deleted User
|
- Heinrich
- Aug 19 2015, 02:35 PM
- krugerman
- Aug 19 2015, 11:34 AM
The word on the ground is that Jeremy Corbyn will not be allowed to win
I state this information as a Labour Party member, but the information has come from a Mr William James Kirkbride, who is a Labour councillor in Whitehaven and an official of the party.
This is what William has written in a Labour Party forum :
"EF, if he fails on the 50% its over, if he does then the PLP will remove him"
" Its not a plot, its using the party rules"
"Mark, JC will not be allowed to win"
" The PLP require 20% to start a ballot of the PLP. That is 44 members, at this moment the papers would be signed by 87"
"Mr Deville, after the removal of JC the party will conduct a purge in the same fashion that Lord Kinnock did"
"Calling elected members of the Labour Party, secret Tories is bringing the party into disrepute. Those people will be removed"
"These sites are being inspected as we type, all who have involved themselves in attacks on elected members of the house will see what happens when JC is gone"
"I will not discuss the matter until Sept 15th. By then JC will already have broken the story"
"JC already knows that the PLP will seek a fresh leadership election should he get more than the 50%"
This is on one hand rather sad, but on the other hand it could be exciting times ahead, another realignment of the left and a purge of the old antique socialists holding Labour back, there might actually be another 1997 style landslide in 2020.
I would not put it past the New Labour MPs. They are rotten to the core.
No less than Swiss or Russian politicians.
|
|
|
| |
|
ACH1967
|
Aug 19 2015, 02:56 PM
Post #809
|
- Posts:
- 4,225
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #56
- Joined:
- Jul 24, 2014
|
- gansao
- Aug 19 2015, 01:51 PM
- Lewis
- Aug 19 2015, 01:20 PM
- gansao
- Aug 19 2015, 12:06 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Better Tory lite than the extremist right wing government we have now!
Why? The present Labour mob would do exactly what the Tories are doing. Better a government that works for the majority rather than the elite. Now all we need is for the majority to understand that too
|
|
|
| |
|
C-too
|
Aug 19 2015, 03:02 PM
Post #810
|
- Posts:
- 17,666
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #49
- Joined:
- Jul 12, 2014
|
- Lewis
- Aug 19 2015, 01:20 PM
- gansao
- Aug 19 2015, 12:06 PM
- krugerman
- Aug 19 2015, 11:34 AM
The word on the ground is that Jeremy Corbyn will not be allowed to win
I state this information as a Labour Party member, but the information has come from a Mr William James Kirkbride, who is a Labour councillor in Whitehaven and an official of the party.
This is what William has written in a Labour Party forum :
"EF, if he fails on the 50% its over, if he does then the PLP will remove him"
" Its not a plot, its using the party rules"
"Mark, JC will not be allowed to win"
" The PLP require 20% to start a ballot of the PLP. That is 44 members, at this moment the papers would be signed by 87"
"Mr Deville, after the removal of JC the party will conduct a purge in the same fashion that Lord Kinnock did"
"Calling elected members of the Labour Party, secret Tories is bringing the party into disrepute. Those people will be removed"
"These sites are being inspected as we type, all who have involved themselves in attacks on elected members of the house will see what happens when JC is gone"
"I will not discuss the matter until Sept 15th. By then JC will already have broken the story"
"JC already knows that the PLP will seek a fresh leadership election should he get more than the 50%"
This is on one hand rather sad, but on the other hand it could be exciting times ahead, another realignment of the left and a purge of the old antique socialists holding Labour back, there might actually be another 1997 style landslide in 2020.
Yup. We might get another Tory government that calls itself Labour.
Better Tory lite than the extremist right wing government we have now! Yes, better to be (nick-named) Tory-Lite than the right-wingers we have in office who in their eagerness to hit the needy forgot to include growth as part of their plans for recovery. NL, in having encouraged and argued for growth to be a part of recovery from the start, established another major difference between NL and the Tories.
|
|
|
| |
|
Affa
|
Aug 19 2015, 03:18 PM
Post #811
|
- Posts:
- 11,999
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #58
- Joined:
- Jul 26, 2014
|
- C-too
- Aug 19 2015, 03:02 PM
Better Tory lite than the extremist right wing government we have now! Yes, better to be (nick-named) Tory-Lite than the right-wingers we have in office who in their eagerness to hit the needy forgot to include growth as part of their plans for recovery. NL, in having encouraged and argued for growth to be a part of recovery from the start, established another major difference between NL and the Tories. [/quote] Austerity measures were needed from an ideological standpoint! Without the having convincing the electorate that the deficit could only be cut if austerity measures and spending cuts were undertaken there was no justification for much of the benefit cuts, wage freeze, and poorer public services (staffing cuts). Growth in the economy would have negated that position ..... hence we had no growth until election year. And are likely to see growth stalled again until the next GE comes around. Austerity measures are imposed for Tory ideology, and never were necessary other than as a short term measure until recovery was attained as it could have been, as it was in 2010 ........ btw The deficit was larger in the mid nineties than it is now. That Tory government did not suffer the admonishment that they inflict on NL.
Edited by Affa, Aug 19 2015, 03:19 PM.
|
|
|
| |
|
Deleted User
|
Aug 19 2015, 03:23 PM
Post #812
|
|
Deleted User
|
- ACH1967
- Aug 19 2015, 02:56 PM
- gansao
- Aug 19 2015, 01:51 PM
- Lewis
- Aug 19 2015, 01:20 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Why? The present Labour mob would do exactly what the Tories are doing. Better a government that works for the majority rather than the elite.
Now all we need is for the majority to understand that too
The majority may understand it. They havent had a government that really offered them that since Attlee's one and since Thatcher it seems that parties were elected because of hatred for the previous parties rather than on real merit...imo
|
|
|
| |
|
Pro Veritas
|
Aug 19 2015, 03:28 PM
Post #813
|
- Posts:
- 7,014
- Group:
- Admins
- Member
- #19
- Joined:
- Jun 27, 2014
|
- krugerman
- Aug 19 2015, 11:34 AM
The word on the ground is that Jeremy Corbyn will not be allowed to win
I state this information as a Labour Party member, but the information has come from a Mr William James Kirkbride, who is a Labour councillor in Whitehaven and an official of the party.
This is what William has written in a Labour Party forum :
"EF, if he fails on the 50% its over, if he does then the PLP will remove him"
" Its not a plot, its using the party rules"
"Mark, JC will not be allowed to win"
" The PLP require 20% to start a ballot of the PLP. That is 44 members, at this moment the papers would be signed by 87"
"Mr Deville, after the removal of JC the party will conduct a purge in the same fashion that Lord Kinnock did"
"Calling elected members of the Labour Party, secret Tories is bringing the party into disrepute. Those people will be removed"
"These sites are being inspected as we type, all who have involved themselves in attacks on elected members of the house will see what happens when JC is gone"
"I will not discuss the matter until Sept 15th. By then JC will already have broken the story"
"JC already knows that the PLP will seek a fresh leadership election should he get more than the 50%"
This is on one hand rather sad, but on the other hand it could be exciting times ahead, another realignment of the left and a purge of the old antique socialists holding Labour back, there might actually be another 1997 style landslide in 2020.
So NuNuLab not only do not believe in socialist values, they don't even believe in Democratic values.
Its clear the plan is to do away with Corbyn by whatever means necessary then usher in the politically spineless David "Tory-Lite-Tony-Puppet" Miliband.
See today's Independent: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/if-you-believe-david-miliband-has-the-answer-for-labour-the-question-is-whats-wrong-with-you-10461122.html
From which:
- Quote:
-
So the first thing Corbyn should do – if and when elected – is finesse Labour’s National Executive Committee to change the rules to ensure that it is the membership, and not the MPs, who spark a leadership challenge.
This, as fervent democrats such as Tony Blair, Alastair Campbell, Peter Mandelson and, indeed, David Miliband must agree, is the democratic way. If Labour is anything, it is for the many, not the few.
And
- Quote:
-
The problem with David Miliband, apart from having the verbal clarity of Professor Stanley Unwin, is cowardice. ...
... As for “political courage”, where in the name of sanity do you begin? In the summer of 2008, when, in an earlier Guardian tour de force, David made a coded challenge to Gordon Brown’s authority days before a) posing with a fruit colour-coded to highlight the yellow streak running through him, and b) scuttling off into the undergrowth when Gordon announced it was no time for a novice? Or a year later, when his bestie James Purnell quit the Cabinet to pave his way to resign and defenestrate Gordon Brown?
Even with the ball on the spot and the one-eyed goalie lying concussed by a post, David couldn’t even manage to take the kick.
Or when he made his drearily narcissistic flight to New York, too enfeebled to conquer wounded pride in the cause of that sacred common good?
A party that claims to court the votes of the "working class" but has no love for socialist values, that employs anti-democratic machinations to seek to sabotage the election of a popular leadership candidate and that seeks to install as leader a coward who is a pale shadow of the biggest liar to ever lead the party is far more unelectable than Corbyn would ever be.
Corbyn has been repeatedly elected for the last 32.
Labour with its NuLab cronies has been unelectable for 8. Yes, I know, but Labour were unelectable with Brown as leader which is why Tony won a third term and then passed the baton.
All The Best
|
|
|
| |
|
Deleted User
|
Aug 19 2015, 04:21 PM
Post #814
|
|
Deleted User
|
Corbyn is pissing on the other candidates sugar pedestals. If he becomes leader they would have no chance to fulfill their destinies. Their sense of self entitlement has been offended. IMO all of the other candidates as well as the leaders before have been fighting each other like rats in a sack and making allies and tactics to one end..to become PM or as near as damn it to PM. The people they represent are just an afterthought. Corbyn seems to have ideas and plans that are inclusive and universally beneficial. He hasnt got a fecking hope in hell
|
|
|
| |
|
Steve K
|
Aug 19 2015, 06:38 PM
Post #815
|
- Posts:
- 33,941
- Group:
- Admins
- Member
- #20
- Joined:
- Jun 27, 2014
|
So now Corbyn pretends he has symptoms of dementia to try to sidestep accusations of dishonesty
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33991920
- Quote:
-
Labour leadership contender Jeremy Corbyn has told the BBC he had "forgotten" meeting a controversial Lebanese activist. Mr Corbyn initially told BBC Radio 4's World at One programme he had no idea who Dyab Abou Jahjah was. He later said he must have forgotten meeting Mr Abou Jahjah, who is banned from the UK over his views on the Middle East, in 2009. . . .
. . . Responding on Twitter to Mr Corbyn's claim not to know him, Mr Abou Jahjah said: "Whatever reasons made Mr Corbyn say this are for him to know and for us to guess." That they shared a platform was "beyond any doubt and is documented and resulted in my ban to enter the UK". "But maybe he forgot all about it," he said. "Who knows?"
And some want us to believe JC is the honest candidate . More like
|
|
|
| |
|
Cymru
|
Aug 19 2015, 07:04 PM
Post #816
|
- Posts:
- 3,504
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #3
- Joined:
- Jun 26, 2014
|
These establishment politicians and their shills are so out of touch with people that they don't realise that every attack they make on Corbyn is just increasing his support.
|
|
|
| |
|
Deleted User
|
Aug 19 2015, 07:19 PM
Post #817
|
|
Deleted User
|
- Cymru
- Aug 19 2015, 07:04 PM
These establishment politicians and their shills are so out of touch with people that they don't realise that every attack they make on Corbyn is just increasing his support.
Indeed. Corbyn must be quite aware that just about everything he has done can be recalled in one way or the other. So he would be rather stupid to deliberately lie. Asked whether he had met Mr Abou Jahjah, Mr Corbyn initially told BBC Radio 4's World at One programme: "No. I saw the name this morning and I asked somebody, 'Who is he?"' He added: "I'm sorry, I don't know who this person is." But Mr Corbyn later issued a statement saying: "My staff have researched this and tell me that I did meet this man in 2009, but I have no recollection of him."
The guy he forgot about... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyab_Abou_Jahjah
Abou Jahjah is a Social democrat and moderate Muslim, although he later revealed that he is rather a Muslim by culture and agnostic on faith.[4] He is an opponent of assimilation. He wants immigrants to be treated as full citizens who can keep their own culture, rather than being treated as guests. He was compared to the American human rights activist Malcolm X, who was also a Muslim and also opposed assimilation and the melting pot model of integration. He sees the integration of Armenians in Lebanon as the ideal model. He has said that, "America's race laws are more advanced than here. I have relatives in Detroit and they are Arab-Americans but they feel American. I don't feel European. Europe needs to make its concept of citizenship inclusive to all cultures and religions.
Abou Jahjah was arrested and detained for several days in 2002 after he allegedly organized riots and called for violence. The riots broke out in Borgerhout, a district of Antwerp, after a 27-year old Belgian-Moroccan was shot by his Flemish neighbor. He was acquitted from all charges on October 21, 2008. A police officer who was watching him the night of the riots said that Abou Jahjah is innocent and that the evidence against him was fabricated.[8] His arrest sparked sharp debates and dominated Belgian politics for months. He gained a lot of support among Belgian intellectuals and academics and was considered as a political prisoner. 300 personalities signed a petition demanding a more moderate approach by the government in dealing with the AEL and the issue of immigration and discrimination in the country. The case became a famous example of demonization of political activists and violation of the separation of powers. The Abou Jahjah affaire is still taught as a case study in some law schools in Belgium and Holland.
|
|
|
| |
|
Pro Veritas
|
Aug 19 2015, 07:36 PM
Post #818
|
- Posts:
- 7,014
- Group:
- Admins
- Member
- #19
- Joined:
- Jun 27, 2014
|
- Steve K
- Aug 19 2015, 06:38 PM
And some want us to believe JC is the honest candidate  . More like Can you remember every single person you have met over the last 10 years, and what their political stance is on any given subject?
No, of course you can't.
So why is it dishonest of him to be unable to do so?
All The Best
|
|
|
| |
|
Deleted User
|
Aug 19 2015, 07:45 PM
Post #819
|
|
Deleted User
|
- Pro Veritas
- Aug 19 2015, 07:36 PM
- Steve K
- Aug 19 2015, 06:38 PM
And some want us to believe JC is the honest candidate  . More like
Can you remember every single person you have met over the last 10 years, and what their political stance is on any given subject? No, of course you can't. So why is it dishonest of him to be unable to do so? All The Best
He cant be honest. That would shatter the dreams of the insipid and resigned. Anyone who proclaims to work for the masses and not the elite must be dishonest .
|
|
|
| |
|
C-too
|
Aug 19 2015, 08:17 PM
Post #820
|
- Posts:
- 17,666
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #49
- Joined:
- Jul 12, 2014
|
- Pro Veritas
- Aug 19 2015, 03:28 PM
- krugerman
- Aug 19 2015, 11:34 AM
The word on the ground is that Jeremy Corbyn will not be allowed to win
I state this information as a Labour Party member, but the information has come from a Mr William James Kirkbride, who is a Labour councillor in Whitehaven and an official of the party.
This is what William has written in a Labour Party forum :
"EF, if he fails on the 50% its over, if he does then the PLP will remove him"
" Its not a plot, its using the party rules"
"Mark, JC will not be allowed to win"
" The PLP require 20% to start a ballot of the PLP. That is 44 members, at this moment the papers would be signed by 87"
"Mr Deville, after the removal of JC the party will conduct a purge in the same fashion that Lord Kinnock did"
"Calling elected members of the Labour Party, secret Tories is bringing the party into disrepute. Those people will be removed"
"These sites are being inspected as we type, all who have involved themselves in attacks on elected members of the house will see what happens when JC is gone"
"I will not discuss the matter until Sept 15th. By then JC will already have broken the story"
"JC already knows that the PLP will seek a fresh leadership election should he get more than the 50%"
This is on one hand rather sad, but on the other hand it could be exciting times ahead, another realignment of the left and a purge of the old antique socialists holding Labour back, there might actually be another 1997 style landslide in 2020.
So NuNuLab not only do not believe in socialist values, they don't even believe in Democratic values. Its clear the plan is to do away with Corbyn by whatever means necessary then usher in the politically spineless David "Tory-Lite-Tony-Puppet" Miliband. See today's Independent: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/if-you-believe-david-miliband-has-the-answer-for-labour-the-question-is-whats-wrong-with-you-10461122.htmlFrom which: - Quote:
-
So the first thing Corbyn should do – if and when elected – is finesse Labour’s National Executive Committee to change the rules to ensure that it is the membership, and not the MPs, who spark a leadership challenge.
This, as fervent democrats such as Tony Blair, Alastair Campbell, Peter Mandelson and, indeed, David Miliband must agree, is the democratic way. If Labour is anything, it is for the many, not the few.
And - Quote:
-
The problem with David Miliband, apart from having the verbal clarity of Professor Stanley Unwin, is cowardice. ...
... As for “political courage”, where in the name of sanity do you begin? In the summer of 2008, when, in an earlier Guardian tour de force, David made a coded challenge to Gordon Brown’s authority days before a) posing with a fruit colour-coded to highlight the yellow streak running through him, and b) scuttling off into the undergrowth when Gordon announced it was no time for a novice? Or a year later, when his bestie James Purnell quit the Cabinet to pave his way to resign and defenestrate Gordon Brown?
Even with the ball on the spot and the one-eyed goalie lying concussed by a post, David couldn’t even manage to take the kick.
Or when he made his drearily narcissistic flight to New York, too enfeebled to conquer wounded pride in the cause of that sacred common good?
A party that claims to court the votes of the "working class" but has no love for socialist values, that employs anti-democratic machinations to seek to sabotage the election of a popular leadership candidate and that seeks to install as leader a coward who is a pale shadow of the biggest liar to ever lead the party is far more unelectable than Corbyn would ever be. Corbyn has been repeatedly elected for the last 32. Labour with its NuLab cronies has been unelectable for 8. Yes, I know, but Labour were unelectable with Brown as leader which is why Tony won a third term and then passed the baton. All The Best
- Quote:
-
Fkn ell, the best laugh I've had in ages. Mind you being aware of someone ranting on about their own clearly biased subjective views has become one of my enjoyments in life after getting used to it on the UK forums.
|
|
|
| |
|
Heinrich
|
Aug 19 2015, 08:19 PM
Post #821
|
- Posts:
- 2,920
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #51
- Joined:
- Jul 22, 2014
|
- Cymru
- Aug 19 2015, 07:04 PM
These establishment politicians and their shills are so out of touch with people that they don't realise that every attack they make on Corbyn is just increasing his support. The critics only increase support for Jeremy Corbyn among people of decency, humanity, and intelligence, especially the young and those who feel unrepresented. The main two right wing parties, Tory and New Labour, and their supporters will remain unmoved and maintain their lock on power in England and consequently in Wales, Scotland, and North Ireland. The first-past-the-post system works in their favor.
Edited by Heinrich, Aug 19 2015, 08:21 PM.
|
|
|
| |
|
C-too
|
Aug 19 2015, 08:24 PM
Post #822
|
- Posts:
- 17,666
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #49
- Joined:
- Jul 12, 2014
|
- Rich
- Aug 18 2015, 06:34 PM
- C-too
- Aug 18 2015, 07:06 AM
- Affa
- Aug 17 2015, 08:26 PM
New Labour under Blair can be labelled in one term only that adequately describes its policies .... Pragmatism! It gave way to the Establishment and attempted to adhere to its core values, serving the working class i.e, by 'not' attacking business, but working with it. Called the 'Third Way' it meant inclusiveness instead of conflict, a proper 'We' party instead of 'Us & Them'.
Sorry Ctoo, but to me, inclusiveness means listening to popular opinion, leading Politicians of all hues appear to be as deaf as a post. Inclusive NL style is to recognise the needs of business, profitability, employment and the needs of the many not just the few. That approach was a godsend after 18 years of callous Conservatism when Thatcher created an economy where the rich got richer, the poorer got poorer and high unemployment was the norm.
|
|
|
| |
|
Tytoalba
|
Aug 19 2015, 08:32 PM
Post #823
|
- Posts:
- 7,580
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #36
- Joined:
- Jun 29, 2014
|
- C-too
- Aug 19 2015, 01:06 PM
- papasmurf
- Aug 19 2015, 12:09 PM
- gansao
- Aug 19 2015, 12:06 PM
Yup. We might get another Tory government that calls itself Labour.
Quite. Also apparently I was wrong I do have a vote in the Labour leadership contest. (Letter in the post when I got back from holiday.)
Ed-the-gone, Corbyn-the-naïve, Labour-the-unready with their future in the hands of so many malcontents who will cut off their nose to spite their face as they pursue their own personal emotional needs. The UK OBVIOUSLY needs a new party that can attract from around the centre of politics, using the good from both the left and the right of politics while focusing on an inclusive, one nation society. Corbyn-the-naïve is not the only one who can dream. Generally speaking that s what we get, for all parties are involved in drafting legislation, presenting, their views ,and in deciding overall policies. I do not think they are as divided in private as they are in public.
|
|
|
| |
|
C-too
|
Aug 19 2015, 08:37 PM
Post #824
|
- Posts:
- 17,666
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #49
- Joined:
- Jul 12, 2014
|
- Rich
- Aug 18 2015, 07:28 PM
- Affa
- Aug 18 2015, 06:45 PM
- C-too
- Aug 18 2015, 03:17 PM
I view PFIs a bit like I do a mortgage, in that it is spread over thirty years with 'inflation' reducing the cost over time. Not sure if that is a justifiable view.
In a decade or so the Nation will own £bns of PFI structures, assets paid for by you and me with our taxes. I wonder how long these assets will remain in public ownership ..... or sold off under privatisation at a fraction of their worth? My bet is that plans are already laid for the future asset stripping we have come to expect from economically incompetent government.
Well, the hospital PFI contract at the hospital (psychiatric) where I work is under PFI control for 30 years and that ends in 2033, after that the site is handed over to the NHS, lock, stock and barrel and the public sector is then responsible for it's maintenance, catering and cleaning, the hospital cost £43 million to build and earns the PFI £2million per annum thereby giving the PFI an overall profit of £17 million over the course of 30 years. What state the superstructure of the site will be in by then is anybody's guess as it was "thrown up" in record time and has already been altered many times from it's original design. The PFI' guarantee of plant and equipment for the buildings was for 12 years, that ends on 1st March next year, after that then the PFI's SPV (special purpose vehicle) which is part owned by the NHS, is liable for any repairs and replacement and they will not want their profit to be eaten into, they may even sell on the remaining years of the contract. The value of payments being made in 20+ years time will have reduced significantly.
The real figures that count are the figures for a non-PFI build subtracted from the coast of the PFI situation. After that, 30 years of private maintenance for the Buildings etc. needs to be added to that figure thus giving a truer picture of the situation.
Just quoting £billions doesn't explain the situation fully.
|
|
|
| |
|
Pro Veritas
|
Aug 19 2015, 08:40 PM
Post #825
|
- Posts:
- 7,014
- Group:
- Admins
- Member
- #19
- Joined:
- Jun 27, 2014
|
- C-too
- Aug 19 2015, 08:24 PM
That approach was a godsend after 18 years of callous Conservatism when Thatcher created an economy where the rich got richer, the poorer got poorer and high unemployment was the norm. This was also true under NuLab.
They just found better ways of cooking the books so the truth wasn't quite so obvious.
The Tories are at least honest in their disregard for the working class.
NuLab are dishonest enough to still pretend to care.
All The Best
|
|
|
| |
|
C-too
|
Aug 19 2015, 08:51 PM
Post #826
|
- Posts:
- 17,666
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #49
- Joined:
- Jul 12, 2014
|
- gansao
- Aug 19 2015, 04:21 PM
Corbyn is pissing on the other candidates sugar pedestals. If he becomes leader they would have no chance to fulfill their destinies. Their sense of self entitlement has been offended. IMO all of the other candidates as well as the leaders before have been fighting each other like rats in a sack and making allies and tactics to one end..to become PM or as near as damn it to PM. The people they represent are just an afterthought. Corbyn seems to have ideas and plans that are inclusive and universally beneficial. He hasnt got a fecking hope in hell He hasn't got a hope in hell of initiating his ideas because he would never win a GE.
|
|
|
| |
|
C-too
|
Aug 19 2015, 08:56 PM
Post #827
|
- Posts:
- 17,666
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #49
- Joined:
- Jul 12, 2014
|
- Cymru
- Aug 19 2015, 07:04 PM
These establishment politicians and their shills are so out of touch with people that they don't realise that every attack they make on Corbyn is just increasing his support. The UK electorate are more likely to vote UKIP into office than Corbyn.
|
|
|
| |
|
C-too
|
Aug 19 2015, 09:04 PM
Post #828
|
- Posts:
- 17,666
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #49
- Joined:
- Jul 12, 2014
|
- Pro Veritas
- Aug 19 2015, 08:40 PM
- C-too
- Aug 19 2015, 08:24 PM
That approach was a godsend after 18 years of callous Conservatism when Thatcher created an economy where the rich got richer, the poorer got poorer and high unemployment was the norm.
This was also true under NuLab. They just found better ways of cooking the books so the truth wasn't quite so obvious. The Tories are at least honest in their disregard for the working class. NuLab are dishonest enough to still pretend to care. All The Best An absolutely crazy comment. It was absolutely not true under NuLab.
Unemployment reality has been posted to you by me in the past, but you just slip back into denial because it suits your biased mind.
1.6 million people taken out of relative poverty and so on, only because NL didn't care.
You are so biased you deny the reality and all because your own personal problems were not addressed by NL.
|
|
|
| |
|
Rich
|
Aug 19 2015, 09:15 PM
Post #829
|
- Posts:
- 14,458
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #30
- Joined:
- Jun 28, 2014
|
- C-too
- Aug 19 2015, 08:51 PM
- gansao
- Aug 19 2015, 04:21 PM
Corbyn is pissing on the other candidates sugar pedestals. If he becomes leader they would have no chance to fulfill their destinies. Their sense of self entitlement has been offended. IMO all of the other candidates as well as the leaders before have been fighting each other like rats in a sack and making allies and tactics to one end..to become PM or as near as damn it to PM. The people they represent are just an afterthought. Corbyn seems to have ideas and plans that are inclusive and universally beneficial. He hasnt got a fecking hope in hell
He hasn't got a hope in hell of initiating his ideas because he would never win a GE. As I have said elsewhere, it is a manifesto that wins or loses an election and not the man/woman.
|
|
|
| |
|
Rich
|
Aug 19 2015, 09:16 PM
Post #830
|
- Posts:
- 14,458
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #30
- Joined:
- Jun 28, 2014
|
- C-too
- Aug 19 2015, 09:04 PM
- Pro Veritas
- Aug 19 2015, 08:40 PM
- C-too
- Aug 19 2015, 08:24 PM
That approach was a godsend after 18 years of callous Conservatism when Thatcher created an economy where the rich got richer, the poorer got poorer and high unemployment was the norm.
This was also true under NuLab. They just found better ways of cooking the books so the truth wasn't quite so obvious. The Tories are at least honest in their disregard for the working class. NuLab are dishonest enough to still pretend to care. All The Best
An absolutely crazy comment. It was absolutely not true under NuLab. Unemployment reality has been posted to you by me in the past, but you just slip back into denial because it suits your biased mind. 1.6 million people taken out of relative poverty and so on, only because NL didn't care. You are so biased you deny the reality and all because your own personal problems were not addressed by NL. But WERE they taken out of poverty or merely recruited as life members of a reliant on the state party?
|
|
|
| |
|
Steve K
|
Aug 19 2015, 09:22 PM
Post #831
|
- Posts:
- 33,941
- Group:
- Admins
- Member
- #20
- Joined:
- Jun 27, 2014
|
- Rich
- Aug 19 2015, 09:15 PM
- C-too
- Aug 19 2015, 08:51 PM
- gansao
- Aug 19 2015, 04:21 PM
Corbyn is pissing on the other candidates sugar pedestals. If he becomes leader they would have no chance to fulfill their destinies. Their sense of self entitlement has been offended. IMO all of the other candidates as well as the leaders before have been fighting each other like rats in a sack and making allies and tactics to one end..to become PM or as near as damn it to PM. The people they represent are just an afterthought. Corbyn seems to have ideas and plans that are inclusive and universally beneficial. He hasnt got a fecking hope in hell
He hasn't got a hope in hell of initiating his ideas because he would never win a GE.
As I have said elsewhere, it is a manifesto that wins or loses an election and not the man/woman. Well we'll have to disagree. The Labour manifesto wasn't bad but the apology of a performance by Miliband in the last 10 days was abysmal and let them snatch defeat from what would have effectively been victory
He was unelectable, just like Kinnock
|
|
|
| |
|
Ewill
|
Aug 19 2015, 10:52 PM
Post #832
|
- Posts:
- 4,381
- Group:
- Admins
- Member
- #62
- Joined:
- Jul 27, 2014
|
- Rich
- Aug 19 2015, 09:16 PM
But WERE they taken out of poverty or merely recruited as life members of a reliant on the state party?
|
|
|
| |
|
Pro Veritas
|
Aug 19 2015, 10:56 PM
Post #833
|
- Posts:
- 7,014
- Group:
- Admins
- Member
- #19
- Joined:
- Jun 27, 2014
|
- C-too
- Aug 19 2015, 09:04 PM
1.6 million people taken out of relative poverty and so on, only because NL didn't care. You are so biased you deny the reality and all because your own personal problems were not addressed by NL. Giving someone tax credits paid for by a tax on someone else doesn't absolutely NOTHING to reduce poverty; only the appearance of poverty.
Letting people keep more of what they earn, and giving them the wherewithal to earn more lifts them out of poverty.
The Coalition did more of that in 5 years than NuLab managed in 15.
And you have no idea how much I hate having to praise a Tory government, even one in coalition.
As to reality, read my signature; you have replaced truth with authority and expect the rest of us to join you in in your cowardly self-delusion.
All The Best
|
|
|
| |
|
Pro Veritas
|
Aug 19 2015, 10:59 PM
Post #834
|
- Posts:
- 7,014
- Group:
- Admins
- Member
- #19
- Joined:
- Jun 27, 2014
|
- Steve K
- Aug 19 2015, 09:22 PM
Well we'll have to disagree. The Labour manifesto wasn't bad but the apology of a performance by Miliband in the last 10 days was abysmal and let them snatch defeat from what would have effectively been victory
He was unelectable, just like Kinnock As was Brown.
The Tories haven't "won" the last two elections; NuLab have lost them because Labour's core voters no longer buy into Blair's third-way bollocks.
All The Best
|
|
|
| |
|
Pro Veritas
|
Aug 20 2015, 07:41 AM
Post #835
|
- Posts:
- 7,014
- Group:
- Admins
- Member
- #19
- Joined:
- Jun 27, 2014
|
Corbyn's "quote of the day" and the reason he is more popular than the rest of the pro-status-quo Blairite candidates:
- Quote:
-
It was not pay rates of nurses, doctors, street cleaners and care workers that crashed the economy in 2008. It was directors on telephone number salaries who were so dispirited in their work that they needed telephone number bonuses to encourage them to go to work to earn their telephone number salaries.
All The Best
|
|
|
| |
|
Steve K
|
Aug 20 2015, 08:35 AM
Post #836
|
- Posts:
- 33,941
- Group:
- Admins
- Member
- #20
- Joined:
- Jun 27, 2014
|
- Pro Veritas
- Aug 19 2015, 10:59 PM
- Steve K
- Aug 19 2015, 09:22 PM
Well we'll have to disagree. The Labour manifesto wasn't bad but the apology of a performance by Miliband in the last 10 days was abysmal and let them snatch defeat from what would have effectively been victory
He was unelectable, just like Kinnock
As was Brown. The Tories haven't "won" the last two elections; NuLab have lost them because Labour's core voters no longer buy into Blair's third-way bollocks. All The Best Exactly the opposite. The move to the left with Brown lost them voters although he himself was electable as he tore into a massive Cameron lead in the run into the 2010 election.
Millipede as with Kinnock before was shown as being too much of a puppet. Tablet of stone anyone?
Meantime we now see the whole election process has the potential to be challenged in court
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/19/leak-eveal-labour-ignored-legal-membership
- Quote:
-
A Labour committee voted not to undertake extra due diligence on voters in its leadership election last week, against the advice of party lawyers, according to leaked meeting notes obtained by the Guardian.
Party lawyers had supported an extra stage of verification in order to protect Labour against a legal challenge by unsuccessful candidates, saying this would put the party in a good position to say its election process had been “robust”.
|
|
|
| |
|
C-too
|
Aug 20 2015, 08:38 AM
Post #837
|
- Posts:
- 17,666
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #49
- Joined:
- Jul 12, 2014
|
- Rich
- Aug 19 2015, 09:16 PM
- C-too
- Aug 19 2015, 09:04 PM
- Pro Veritas
- Aug 19 2015, 08:40 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
An absolutely crazy comment. It was absolutely not true under NuLab. Unemployment reality has been posted to you by me in the past, but you just slip back into denial because it suits your biased mind. 1.6 million people taken out of relative poverty and so on, only because NL didn't care. You are so biased you deny the reality and all because your own personal problems were not addressed by NL.
But WERE they taken out of poverty or merely recruited as life members of a reliant on the state party? Having real unemployment reduced to 1.4m after 18 years of much higher unemployment must have helped.
Even if some were helped by increased finance from the state then, 1. They were taken out of poverty as claimed. 2. Why not help from the state when the country had a growing economy and both the rich and the poor were getting richer ?
It was a case of keeping to the idea of relative poverty.
|
|
|
| |
|
C-too
|
Aug 20 2015, 09:14 AM
Post #838
|
- Posts:
- 17,666
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #49
- Joined:
- Jul 12, 2014
|
- Pro Veritas
- Aug 19 2015, 10:56 PM
- C-too
- Aug 19 2015, 09:04 PM
1.6 million people taken out of relative poverty and so on, only because NL didn't care. You are so biased you deny the reality and all because your own personal problems were not addressed by NL.
Giving someone tax credits paid for by a tax on someone else doesn't absolutely NOTHING to reduce poverty; only the appearance of poverty. Letting people keep more of what they earn, and giving them the wherewithal to earn more lifts them out of poverty. The Coalition did more of that in 5 years than NuLab managed in 15. And you have no idea how much I hate having to praise a Tory government, even one in coalition. As to reality, read my signature; you have replaced truth with authority and expect the rest of us to join you in in your cowardly self-delusion. All The Best
- Quote:
-
PV. Giving someone tax credits paid for by a tax on someone else doesn't absolutely NOTHING to reduce poverty; only the appearance of poverty. No, the recipient receives extra finance. As too do those who received increased family allowance. And the real reduction in unemployment, the details of which I posted to you a few weeks back, would help to pull people out of relative poverty.
'Keeping more of what you earn', what of people who paid hardly any tax ? Giving people the wherewithal to earn more comes under wishful thinking. It seems to me that the coalition gave with one hand and took with the other. You may argue that there were different ways to address the problem but that does not alter the fact that 1.6m people were taken out of poverty.
|
|
|
| |
|
Pro Veritas
|
Aug 20 2015, 09:21 AM
Post #839
|
- Posts:
- 7,014
- Group:
- Admins
- Member
- #19
- Joined:
- Jun 27, 2014
|
- Steve K
- Aug 20 2015, 08:35 AM
- Pro Veritas
- Aug 19 2015, 10:59 PM
- Steve K
- Aug 19 2015, 09:22 PM
Well we'll have to disagree. The Labour manifesto wasn't bad but the apology of a performance by Miliband in the last 10 days was abysmal and let them snatch defeat from what would have effectively been victory
He was unelectable, just like Kinnock
As was Brown. The Tories haven't "won" the last two elections; NuLab have lost them because Labour's core voters no longer buy into Blair's third-way bollocks. All The Best
Exactly the opposite. The move to the left with Brown lost them voters although he himself was electable as he tore into a massive Cameron lead in the run into the 2010 election. Millipede as with Kinnock before was shown as being too much of a puppet. Tablet of stone anyone? Brown didn't lose votes because he moved to the left of Blair - what little movement there was was a) barely perceptible, and b) hadn't had time to filter through to have any significant impact on the ground.
Brown lost votes because a) he was a bullying arrsehole, b) he has less charisma than a dead badger, and c) "that bigoted woman" - in short he was politically clueless.
All The Best
|
|
|
| |
|
C-too
|
Aug 20 2015, 09:28 AM
Post #840
|
- Posts:
- 17,666
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #49
- Joined:
- Jul 12, 2014
|
- Ewill
- Aug 19 2015, 10:52 PM
Unemployment was lower under NL than it was under the 18 years of Tory administration. The numbers claiming some sort of Incapacity Benefit rose from 750,000 in 1979 to 2.2 million in 1997. The numbers on benefits in those days rose to a very high level, higher than during the first ten years of NL in office when 1.6m had been taken out of relative poverty.
Thank goodness NL were such a superior government to the Tory, rely on the state, government. If you want a good laugh then look no further than the Tory party.
Edited by C-too, Aug 20 2015, 09:30 AM.
|
|
|
| |
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
|