Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Uk Debate Mk 2, the UK's liveliest political and social debate site.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Locked Topic
Labour Leadership Contest; merged thread
Topic Started: May 15 2015, 01:02 PM (2,215 Views)
Tytoalba
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Chuka Umunna withdraws Labour leader bid, Who is left to lead them? The BBC has been attacking UKIP and Farrage for days, but at least they have a leader. Labour are in a state of uncertainty, and we do need a good opposition in the HOC,
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Replies:
C-too
Member Avatar
Honourable Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Pro Veritas
Aug 20 2015, 04:47 PM
C-too
Aug 20 2015, 04:25 PM
New Labour is the way, it's just a case of either exposing the lies and insinuations of Tory propaganda or disguising New Labour in what appears to be new clothing.
How very soviet, and undemocratic of you.

Either re-write history, or lie to the electorate - all to preserve a stagnant and faded ideology that isn't fit for purpose in the current decade.

All The Best
It's politics, Corbyn is being dishonest with his --- let me take you to utopia --- approach, the Tories are being dishonest with their 'we are all in it together'.

Correct the lying and insinuated lies of the distorted Tory version of history ? absolutely yes.

Re-shape NL in order to by-pass the lies and the insinuated lies, why not ?
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Tytoalba
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Lewis
Aug 21 2015, 07:36 AM
ACH1967
Aug 19 2015, 01:41 PM
Quick quiz.
Which of these is extreme right wing behavior?

A Introducing a bedroom tax that costs 14 quid more a week
B Gassing millions of Jews
Answer both are. £14 could mean the difference between eating or not to those who are being punished by this nasty horrible right wing EXTREMIST government.
Lewis Lewis Lewis!
You really must stop exaggerating. The vast majority of people in the UK are doing quite well, and are reasonably satisfied with their personal circumstances., and you know it. I expect that your doing OK, along with the other left wing supporting posters.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
papasmurf
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tytoalba
Aug 21 2015, 08:50 AM
The vast majority of people in the UK are doing quite well, and are reasonably satisfied with their personal circumstances.,
With the greatest of respect, you really do have to be joking.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Tytoalba
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
papasmurf
Aug 21 2015, 07:47 AM
Lewis
Aug 21 2015, 07:36 AM
£14 could mean the difference between eating or not to those who are being punished by this nasty horrible right wing EXTREMIST government.
Where I live the bedroom tax is causing severe hardship due to the near total lack of one bedroom accommodation.
No such thing as the bedroom tax , and many bigger families are benefitting from the downsizing of those living in bigger council accommodation that they no longer need. It is a reduction in benefit for what is no longer required as essential to need.
IT IS NOT A TAX
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Tytoalba
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
papasmurf
Aug 21 2015, 08:53 AM
Tytoalba
Aug 21 2015, 08:50 AM
The vast majority of people in the UK are doing quite well, and are reasonably satisfied with their personal circumstances.,
With the greatest of respect, you really do have to be joking.
Not at \all. Look around for yourself on your next shopping trip, and look at the advertising for holidays with the means to sully them. The majority are living their lives well enough and their needs catered for.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Rich
Aug 21 2015, 12:17 AM
Steve K
Aug 20 2015, 11:45 PM
There are two basic flaws in the Corbyista posts above

1. They think that the 600,000 people apparently entitled to vote in this election are all Labour supporters. If they were they'd have been members when it mattered in May this year when there was a real need to work to get the Tory heartless policies on welfare opposed and out of government.

2. That 600,000 dilitante Labour supporters have the right to get the other 99% of the UK population to fall in line with Corbyn's Hamas/IRA loving, economy destroying, job destroying, defence of the realm annihilating (and if Pro V 's post is believed) thieving policies. They won't.

This whole fiasco has been exactly what the far right of the Tory party wanted. Well done Corbynistas I so hope you are the first to feel the misery he will vest on the UK by letting the Tories run riot.
Is an opposition party essential?

have a quick read.

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/leo-mckinstry/599422/Labour-election-the-myth-strong-Opposition
Well actually I read it twice. I think this extract shows why I reject it

"Similarly, Mrs Thatcher was able to push through her radical economic reforms precisely because Labour was so weak under Michael Foot and Neil Kinnock."

Now whatever anyone thinks of the Thatcher reforms it has to be agreed that many did and still do oppose them and many had their lives destroyed by the savage pace of them. That she could do this was imho not good at all, it re-established a two class society with massive social division simply because there was no way to challenge her.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
papasmurf
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tytoalba
Aug 21 2015, 08:57 AM
Not at \all. Look around for yourself on your next shopping trip,
I do all the time, and trying to get near the at it's sell by date rack is getting to be dangerous. There are more shops shut down every time I go shopping, it is August the so called height of the tourist season and there are vacancy signs every where, plus the numbers needing food banks is ever increasing with more food banks opening.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Ewill
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
C-too
Aug 21 2015, 07:23 AM
Ewill
Aug 20 2015, 11:11 PM
Affa
Aug 20 2015, 06:32 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Nope

Your mates Tone and Gordon invented yet another raft of benefits they could handout with abandon to increase their client base
Only they didn't call them ''benefits'' , they called them ''tax credits''
My knowledge of double entry book-keeping is that in order to have a ''credit'' there should be a corresponding ''debit''

That rule doesn't seem to followed in Labourspeak
As the rich continued to get richer and the call for a reduction in the number of skilled workers created an ever growing number of low paid workers. (A situation created by Thatcher) It became a necessity to financially help those at the bottom of the economic pile. Thatcher and Co. ignored that fact (just as they ignored the state of the NHS and state schools), NL picked up the tab.
Tax credits were there to encourage/help people to take low paid jobs. Having to take low paid jobs was a situation created by Thatcher.

Even so, no reasonable individual could see 18 years of unemployment ranging from well over 2 million to close on 4 million, along with the giant increase in the numbers on IB, then point an accusing finger at NL. To do so would just add to the list of lying insinuations that Tories have so often indulged in.
Tax ''credits'' are no such thing :nono:

It's yet another welfare benefit deliberately misnamed by Labour !===

(There's no ''tax'' on council house bedrooms either !wav! )

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
papasmurf
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 09:33 AM


There's no ''tax'' on council house bedrooms either

There is, if the situation is as it is where I live there are no one bedroomed properties available for people to move to.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Ewill
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
papasmurf
Aug 21 2015, 09:23 AM
Tytoalba
Aug 21 2015, 08:57 AM
Not at \all. Look around for yourself on your next shopping trip,
I do all the time, and trying to get near the at it's sell by date rack is getting to be dangerous. There are more shops shut down every time I go shopping, it is August the so called height of the tourist season and there are vacancy signs every where, plus the numbers needing food banks is ever increasing with more food banks opening.
Foodbanks are a franchise business , obviously the aim is to open as many as possible
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
C-too
Member Avatar
Honourable Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tytoalba
Aug 21 2015, 08:54 AM
papasmurf
Aug 21 2015, 07:47 AM
Lewis
Aug 21 2015, 07:36 AM
£14 could mean the difference between eating or not to those who are being punished by this nasty horrible right wing EXTREMIST government.
Where I live the bedroom tax is causing severe hardship due to the near total lack of one bedroom accommodation.
No such thing as the bedroom tax , and many bigger families are benefitting from the downsizing of those living in bigger council accommodation that they no longer need. It is a reduction in benefit for what is no longer required as essential to need.
IT IS NOT A TAX
The bedroom tax was labelled such because it led to people who had no option but to stay where they where thus requiring them to make increased payments.

If you are the decent individual you work hard at being perceived as, then you will need to take a long hard look at your defence of this move by the government, allowing yourself to be more objective and more aware of the full implications of the move, not just the basic intentions of the move.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
C-too
Member Avatar
Honourable Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 09:33 AM
C-too
Aug 21 2015, 07:23 AM
Ewill
Aug 20 2015, 11:11 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
As the rich continued to get richer and the call for a reduction in the number of skilled workers created an ever growing number of low paid workers. (A situation created by Thatcher) It became a necessity to financially help those at the bottom of the economic pile. Thatcher and Co. ignored that fact (just as they ignored the state of the NHS and state schools), NL picked up the tab.
Tax credits were there to encourage/help people to take low paid jobs. Having to take low paid jobs was a situation created by Thatcher.

Even so, no reasonable individual could see 18 years of unemployment ranging from well over 2 million to close on 4 million, along with the giant increase in the numbers on IB, then point an accusing finger at NL. To do so would just add to the list of lying insinuations that Tories have so often indulged in.
Tax ''credits'' are no such thing :nono:

It's yet another welfare benefit deliberately misnamed by Labour !===

(There's no ''tax'' on council house bedrooms either !wav! )

:) /8/
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Ewill
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
papasmurf
Aug 21 2015, 09:37 AM
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 09:36 AM
Foodbanks are a franchise business , obviously the aim is to open as many as possible
You really are an idiot, or a troll or both.
Neither, that's your domain

Deny all you like , you are wrong

Foodbanks are a franchise

<<The Trussell Trust, which fed 128,000 people last year, mostly works with churches or other local community groups. Those groups will typically approach the trust if they feel there is a need for a food bank in their area. They pay a fee and in return they are provided with a whole package of support to get their franchise off the ground.>>

(theguardian.com)

<<How can my charity sign up for deliveries from FareShare?
For a small monthly fee FareShare can provide your organisation with regular food deliveries. Please look at our list of depots and see if we operate in your area, then contact your local FareShare for details of how to apply.

How can I set up a FareShare in my area?
FareShare operates in partnership with registered charities and social enterprises to run depots around the country. These organisations fund, staff and manage the operation from the planning through the delivery of the FareShare service. Setting up a FareShare costs around £200,000.

If you’re part of an organisation that would like to work with FareShare to develop a franchise in your area please send an email to info@fareshare.org.uk to register your interest.>>>


Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Ewill
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
papasmurf
Aug 21 2015, 10:26 AM
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 10:12 AM


Foodbanks are a franchise

Bollocks, you really are talking out of your fundamental orifice. The Trussell Trust does not run even half of the food banks where I live,(or indeed nationally,) the majority are individual food banks set up by and run by local volunteers.

People with your crap attitude and ill informed mind set are the reason there is now a Tory government which is a disaster for the poor and vulnerable.

Also FareShare is NOT a food bank.
http://www.fareshare.org.uk/

The most vocal and largest Foodbank, Trussell, is a franchise operation where those desiring free food for three days who first popped along to Dr,CAB,Job Centre,clinic etc to collect a voucher can relax whilst enjoying being served drinks in a café atmosphere whilst some well meaning lefty volunteer (Do the paid staff and directors ever go to the front line unless photographers are there?) picks and bags up the free food (Mr Kiplings and other ''essentials'' (sic) are always to the fore in media pics) in non judgemental carrier bags to be handed to them.

......and no-where (apart from in your imagination) did I state that Trussell is the sole operator

Fareshare is a franchise which delivers to foodbanks (amongst others)

I trust that you are now better informed and will be less gullible in future?

The reason there is now a conservative (small c) government is because the conservative party received more votes than any other political party - no other reason

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Affa
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Ewill
Aug 20 2015, 11:11 PM
Affa
Aug 20 2015, 06:32 PM
Ewill
Aug 19 2015, 10:52 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
But the numbers for those claiming benefits always increases under the Tories and fell when Blair was PM .... so the post is completely idiotic1
Nope

Your mates Tone and Gordon invented yet another raft of benefits they could handout with abandon to increase their client base

Only they didn't call them ''benefits'' , they called them ''tax credits''
My knowledge of double entry book-keeping is that in order to have a ''credit'' there should be a corresponding ''debit''

That rule doesn't seem to followed in Labourspeak

Calling tax credits Welfare is OK by me ....... and in that specific regard the Tory led government increases those numbers too ........ so the message remains the same 'It is Conservatives that increase Welfare Dependency', and the idiot idea presented applies more to them than it did to the Blair government - who reduced welfare dependency, reduced the bill - which quadrupled when Mrs T was PM.

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
ACH1967
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
A bit late but I think calling Corbyn a HAMAS/IRA lover is a bit rich.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Ewill
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
papasmurf
Aug 21 2015, 02:44 PM
marybrown
Aug 21 2015, 01:27 PM
You worry me sometimes..how do you know this?
Because of the script he is reading from.
Here's another bit of script for you - you wont read it though because you've stuck your fingers in your ears


>>>The Trussell Trust food bank franchise is one of a new breed of what is called “social franchises” which like McDonalds, charges others for the franchise but unlike commercial franchises the social franchises are considered to be “social enterprises” which usually re-invest a minimum of 50% of the profits back in to the business or the strategic cause the franchise supports.

Social enterprises and social franchises can be set up as a business or a charity and be set up for profit.

Dan Berelowitz, the founder and Chief Executive of The International Centre for Social Franchising, undertook a study comparing McDonald’s commercial franchise to the Trussell Trust social franchise.

According to his report for the successful growth of the Trussell Trust’s food bank franchise “credibility is all important”.

The Trussell Trust target market for their franchise growth is Churches – and what’s more credible and trusted in a community than a church - where the Trussell Trust can expect churches to not only spread the word of God but the Trussell Trust franchise name too.

The report states the Trussell Trust only wants Churches as franchisees. The churches actually have to pay £1500 to the Trussell Trust for the franchise, which the Trussell Trust refers to as a start- up “donation”.

Churches then must find a further £360 per year “donation” for the Trussell Trust’s franchise support.>>>>
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
ACH1967
Aug 21 2015, 02:44 PM
A bit late but I think calling Corbyn a HAMAS/IRA lover is a bit rich.
Well he shouldn't have called them "his friends" then should he
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Ewill
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Aug 20 2015, 11:45 PM
There are two basic flaws in the Corbyista posts above

1. They think that the 600,000 people apparently entitled to vote in this election are all Labour supporters. If they were they'd have been members when it mattered in May this year when there was a real need to work to get the Tory heartless policies on welfare opposed and out of government.

2. That 600,000 dilitante Labour supporters have the right to get the other 99% of the UK population to fall in line with Corbyn's Hamas/IRA loving, economy destroying, job destroying, defence of the realm annihilating (and if Pro V 's post is believed) thieving policies. They won't.

This whole fiasco has been exactly what the far right of the Tory party wanted. Well done Corbynistas I so hope you are the first to feel the misery he will vest on the UK by letting the Tories run riot.
I've just read Corbyns election manifesto (or whatever it's called)
I agree with him on this point

>>We must abolish fees, restore grants and
deliver lifelong education services for all,>>

:thud:
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
marybrown
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 03:09 PM
Steve K
Aug 20 2015, 11:45 PM
There are two basic flaws in the Corbyista posts above

1. They think that the 600,000 people apparently entitled to vote in this election are all Labour supporters. If they were they'd have been members when it mattered in May this year when there was a real need to work to get the Tory heartless policies on welfare opposed and out of government.

2. That 600,000 dilitante Labour supporters have the right to get the other 99% of the UK population to fall in line with Corbyn's Hamas/IRA loving, economy destroying, job destroying, defence of the realm annihilating (and if Pro V 's post is believed) thieving policies. They won't.

This whole fiasco has been exactly what the far right of the Tory party wanted. Well done Corbynistas I so hope you are the first to feel the misery he will vest on the UK by letting the Tories run riot.
I've just read Corbyns election manifesto (or whatever it's called)
I agree with him on this point

>>We must abolish fees, restore grants and
deliver lifelong education services for all,>>

:thud:
I don't like him..he has a hidden agenda that has nothing whatsoever to do with Labour..
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
ACH1967
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 02:59 PM
ACH1967
Aug 21 2015, 02:44 PM
A bit late but I think calling Corbyn a HAMAS/IRA lover is a bit rich.
Well he shouldn't have called them "his friends" then should he
I have plenty (a couple maybe at a stretch) friends that I don't love.I have also called many people friends who are not friends out of politeness.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
marybrown
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
ACH1967
Aug 21 2015, 03:13 PM
Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 02:59 PM
ACH1967
Aug 21 2015, 02:44 PM
A bit late but I think calling Corbyn a HAMAS/IRA lover is a bit rich.
Well he shouldn't have called them "his friends" then should he
I have plenty (a couple maybe at a stretch) friends that I don't love.I have also called many people friends who are not friends out of politeness.
I'm the same..I am very wary of people..I don't want my ''friends'' to bash my door down because they've had a row with their partners..
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
ACH1967
Aug 21 2015, 03:13 PM
Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 02:59 PM
ACH1967
Aug 21 2015, 02:44 PM
A bit late but I think calling Corbyn a HAMAS/IRA lover is a bit rich.
Well he shouldn't have called them "his friends" then should he
I have plenty (a couple maybe at a stretch) friends that I don't love.I have also called many people friends who are not friends out of politeness.
OK so it's slightly OTT to say "lover". Still someone that has gone out of his way to be friends to such in order to get the reflected alternate thinking image.

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
ACH1967
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 03:22 PM
ACH1967
Aug 21 2015, 03:13 PM
Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 02:59 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I have plenty (a couple maybe at a stretch) friends that I don't love.I have also called many people friends who are not friends out of politeness.
OK so it's slightly OTT to say "lover". Still someone that has gone out of his way to be friends to such in order to get the reflected alternate thinking image.

I don't know about that. I do wonder how many people called Blair and his gang IRA lovers but they gave us a semblance of peace with the IRA and less people are dead as a result. It's far from perfect but someone has to be big enough to make the first move.

My issues with Corbyn are the same as yours apart from this I would say. His whole pitch is for dreamers and far more romantic a vision then anything as dreary as reality.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
marybrown
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Why don't we just vote for Diane Abbot..and have done with it..
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Ewill
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
marybrown
Aug 21 2015, 03:09 PM
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 03:05 PM
marybrown
Aug 21 2015, 02:56 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
As I've always stated they are a franchise business and the aim of a franchisor is to have as many franchisees as possible

They have paid staff too

PS and other gullibles don't like the truth being pointed out
So who pays them?

And how do they get money distributing ''free food?''

When they pay a franchise?
Trussell is the franchisor and a charity , they have paid staff vacancies are advertised on their website-last time I looked they were advertising for f/t van drivers at £8.20 an hour and full and p/t retail staff for their charity shops - think I've read that senior management is on £40k a year (need to check that )

I doubt most volunteers would realise that they can be dealing with paid staff, I know someone who is an area manager for a household name charity, salary £38k-they liaise between HQ and volunteer groups in West London - I have asked if the volunteer groups know that she is salaried and was told that being employed was an irrelevance to the relationship
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Ewill
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
marybrown
Aug 21 2015, 03:11 PM
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 03:09 PM
Steve K
Aug 20 2015, 11:45 PM
There are two basic flaws in the Corbyista posts above

1. They think that the 600,000 people apparently entitled to vote in this election are all Labour supporters. If they were they'd have been members when it mattered in May this year when there was a real need to work to get the Tory heartless policies on welfare opposed and out of government.

2. That 600,000 dilitante Labour supporters have the right to get the other 99% of the UK population to fall in line with Corbyn's Hamas/IRA loving, economy destroying, job destroying, defence of the realm annihilating (and if Pro V 's post is believed) thieving policies. They won't.

This whole fiasco has been exactly what the far right of the Tory party wanted. Well done Corbynistas I so hope you are the first to feel the misery he will vest on the UK by letting the Tories run riot.
I've just read Corbyns election manifesto (or whatever it's called)
I agree with him on this point

>>We must abolish fees, restore grants and
deliver lifelong education services for all,>>

:thud:
I don't like him..he has a hidden agenda that has nothing whatsoever to do with Labour..
I don't like him either

I simply agree with that view on tuition fees ;D
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
marybrown
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 03:45 PM
marybrown
Aug 21 2015, 03:09 PM
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 03:05 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
So who pays them?

And how do they get money distributing ''free food?''

When they pay a franchise?
Trussell is the franchisor and a charity , they have paid staff vacancies are advertised on their website-last time I looked they were advertising for f/t van drivers at £8.20 an hour and full and p/t retail staff for their charity shops - think I've read that senior management is on £40k a year (need to check that )

I doubt most volunteers would realise that they can be dealing with paid staff, I know someone who is an area manager for a household name charity, salary £38k-they liaise between HQ and volunteer groups in West London - I have asked if the volunteer groups know that she is salaried and was told that being employed was an irrelevance to the relationship
I can understand that..I worked for Oxfam for a while..what a rip off..

Goods came in at 8..antiques.gold..jewellery were picked off before they got on ''the floor''

And actually the head honcho had a lorry waiting outside to take his booty to his antique shop..500 yds away..

Disgusting..and I told them so..
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
marybrown
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 03:47 PM
marybrown
Aug 21 2015, 03:11 PM
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 03:09 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepWell done
I don't like him..he has a hidden agenda that has nothing whatsoever to do with Labour..
I don't like him either

I simply agree with that view on tuition fees ;D
When he says ''We must deliver lifelong education services for all''

What does that mean?..
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 03:47 PM
marybrown
Aug 21 2015, 03:11 PM
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 03:09 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepWell done
I don't like him..he has a hidden agenda that has nothing whatsoever to do with Labour..
I don't like him either

I simply agree with that view on tuition fees ;D
So are you now disagreeing with him on grants? I do
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
marybrown
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 04:04 PM
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 03:47 PM
marybrown
Aug 21 2015, 03:11 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepWell done
I don't like him either

I simply agree with that view on tuition fees ;D
So are you now disagreeing with him on grants? I do
I would like to know who are these ''grants'' for???
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Ewill
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
marybrown
Aug 21 2015, 03:59 PM
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 03:47 PM
marybrown
Aug 21 2015, 03:11 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepWell done
I don't like him either

I simply agree with that view on tuition fees ;D
When he says ''We must deliver lifelong education services for all''

What does that mean?..
Adult education colleges imo
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
C-too
Member Avatar
Honourable Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 12:13 PM

papasmurf
Aug 21 2015, 11:30 AM

Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 11:26 AM
The most vocal and largest Foodbank, Trussell, is a franchise operation where those desiring free food for three days who first popped along to Dr,CAB,Job Centre,clinic etc to collect a voucher can relax whilst enjoying being served drinks in a café atmosphere whilst some well meaning lefty volunteer
Comment removed By Moderator for breach of house rules
!clp! !clp! !clp! !clp! !clp! typical lefty , can't handle reality so they stick their fingers in their ears !clp! !clp! !clp! !clp! !clp!

Are you really saying that foodbank ''users'' don't need a voucher in order to collect their three days free food? Are you really saying they don't serve drinks while waiting? Some also do non food parcels of toiletries etc

from the Trussell website

<<How a foodbank works

Food is donated
Schools, churches, businesses and individuals donate non-perishable, in-date food to a foodbank. Large collections often take place as part of Harvest Festival celebrations.
Food is also collected at ‘Supermarket Collections’: These are events held at supermarkets where volunteers give shoppers a ‘foodbank shopping list’ and ask them to buy an extra item or two for local people in crisis.
Food is sorted and stored
Volunteers sort food to check that it’s in date and pack it into boxes ready to be given to people in need.



Frontline care professionals identify people in need
Care professionals such as doctors, health visitors, social workers, CAB and police identify people in crisis and issue them with a foodbank voucher. Foodbanks partner with a wide range of care professionals who are best placed to assess need and make sure that it is genuine.


Clients receive food
Foodbank clients bring their voucher to a foodbank centre where it can be redeemed for three days emergency food. Volunteers meet clients over a cup of tea or free hot meal and are able to signpost people to agencies able to solve the longer-term problem.
Some foodbanks also run a rural delivery service,

They have vacancies for f/t van drivers and other staff at £8.20 per hr

From a variety of non Trussell food bank sites(there's lots more-just ask):


<<Volunteering There is plenty of scope for people to help:- 1. In our warehouse, sorting donated food into food types and date order or packing Emergency Food Boxes. Contact David Jones 2. At our supermarket collections mainly on Saturdays a few times per year. Contact Brian Benford 3. At the Distribution Centre, talking to clients, providing tea and cake>>

<<speak to the CAB or your doctor, health visitor, social worker or other care professional and they will issue you with a foodbank voucher.

FoodBank Food StoreBring your voucher into the King's Centre on Wednesday (9-11am) or one of the other centres where it will be redeemed for 3 days worth of food.

While you wait for your food, sit down and have a cup of tea/coffee and chat to the helpers who are ready with a listening ear>>>

<<Foodbank clients bring their voucher to a foodbank centre where it is exchanged for a three day emergency food package, complete with suggested nutritious recipes to help them make best use of the food. At a foodbank centre, clients can meet with our volunteers, relax and enjoy a cup of tea. Where it is difficult for the client to reach one of our foodbank centres we can often arrange delivery of food to a client’s home.>>

GP's have been brought into the voucher issuing mix and just issue vouchers so they aren't blocking time with the genuinely ill(www.mirror.co.uk)

<<Doctors – along with social workers, health visitors and social organisations – are allowed to refer people who need rations .
....

And they say the rising number of those seeking food handouts is stretching resources to the limit.

Dr Peter Swinyard, chair of the Family Doctors Association and a GP in Swindon, Wilts, said: “How are we supposed to know whether someone is, what in Dickensian terms you might call the ‘deserving poor’, and who is basically a scrounger just trying to a get a free meal out of the system? It is putting GPs in an impossible position.”

....... “We’re so busy already I don’t know how we are going to find the time to see all these other patients.”

She revealed: “I had one who asked for a food bank referral because she was on low income. l don’t know how much money she had, but how could I have said no? So I signed it.”

... he simply wrote on one referral note: “My patient tells me he is hungry, and I have no reason to disbelieve him.”

Many GPs are unaware food banks are referring people until they walk through the surgery doors.
<<
Surely the relative point is food banks are an increasing necessity under this government ?
Edited by johnofgwent, Aug 23 2015, 12:13 PM.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Ewill
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 04:04 PM
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 03:47 PM
marybrown
Aug 21 2015, 03:11 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepWell done
I don't like him either

I simply agree with that view on tuition fees ;D
So are you now disagreeing with him on grants? I do
No

I recall a bright (A levels ABB) friend at school who couldn't go to university because their parents (both pharmacists in Boots) refused to ''top up'' - they were only entitled to the minimum means tested grant based on parental salary - £125 a year

Working was out of the question at the time as university was full on contact and evening jobs weren't allowed

Those whose parents ''passed'' the means test had no such barriers to education - they received the full maintenance grant

I believe that those with the level of results needed to enrol on a degree course should be able to - irrespective of parental support

However

I do not support the view that standards should be lowered to allow those with insufficient results but ''disadvantaged'' in other ways to read for a degree
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Ewill
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
marybrown
Aug 21 2015, 04:18 PM
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 04:15 PM
marybrown
Aug 21 2015, 03:59 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepWell done
Adult education colleges imo
For whom??

Comment edited by moderator


Adults

Art, modern languages, flower arranging, brick laying , plumbing, psychology , maths , poetry, EFL etc etc etc

Whatever

Education for education's sake
Edited by johnofgwent, Aug 23 2015, 12:14 PM.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
marybrown
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 04:29 PM


Adults

Art, modern languages, flower arranging, brick laying , plumbing, psychology , maths , poetry, EFL etc etc etc

Whatever

Education for education's sake
There are courses available for these people at the moment..

It's hardly quantum physics..
Edited by johnofgwent, Aug 23 2015, 12:16 PM.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Ewill
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
marybrown
Aug 21 2015, 04:32 PM

Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 04:29 PM


Adults

Art, modern languages, flower arranging, brick laying , plumbing, psychology , maths , poetry, EFL etc etc etc

Whatever

Education for education's sake
There are courses available for these people at the moment..

It's hardly quantum physics..
If someone wants to learn quantum physics in their 30s, 40s, 50s or 80s , good for them they should be able to /8/ /8/

''lifelong learning''
Edited by johnofgwent, Aug 23 2015, 12:16 PM.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 04:27 PM
Steve K
Aug 21 2015, 04:04 PM
. . So are you now disagreeing with him on grants? I do
No . .
:rubchin:

But what you actually posted was

Quote:
 
I agree with him on this point

>>We must abolish fees, restore grants and
deliver lifelong education services for all,>>


"all" means everyone even if they've had grants before. It opens us up to the lifelong student

I support grants and no tuition fees for the deserving IE those seeking education to better their ability to contribute to the UK (and be rewarded for doing so)

But not for the serial undergraduate, not for non Brits and not for those who are going to take their skills we have funded to get fat salaries in lands foreign.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Ewill
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
C-too
Aug 21 2015, 04:23 PM
Ewill
Aug 21 2015, 12:13 PM
papasmurf
Aug 21 2015, 11:30 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
!clp! !clp! !clp! !clp! !clp! typical lefty , can't handle reality so they stick their fingers in their ears !clp! !clp! !clp! !clp! !clp!

Are you really saying that foodbank ''users'' don't need a voucher in order to collect their three days free food? Are you really saying they don't serve drinks while waiting? Some also do non food parcels of toiletries etc

from the Trussell website

<<How a foodbank works

Food is donated
Schools, churches, businesses and individuals donate non-perishable, in-date food to a foodbank. Large collections often take place as part of Harvest Festival celebrations.
Food is also collected at ‘Supermarket Collections’: These are events held at supermarkets where volunteers give shoppers a ‘foodbank shopping list’ and ask them to buy an extra item or two for local people in crisis.
Food is sorted and stored
Volunteers sort food to check that it’s in date and pack it into boxes ready to be given to people in need.



Frontline care professionals identify people in need
Care professionals such as doctors, health visitors, social workers, CAB and police identify people in crisis and issue them with a foodbank voucher. Foodbanks partner with a wide range of care professionals who are best placed to assess need and make sure that it is genuine.


Clients receive food
Foodbank clients bring their voucher to a foodbank centre where it can be redeemed for three days emergency food. Volunteers meet clients over a cup of tea or free hot meal and are able to signpost people to agencies able to solve the longer-term problem.
Some foodbanks also run a rural delivery service,

They have vacancies for f/t van drivers and other staff at £8.20 per hr

From a variety of non Trussell food bank sites(there's lots more-just ask):


<<Volunteering There is plenty of scope for people to help:- 1. In our warehouse, sorting donated food into food types and date order or packing Emergency Food Boxes. Contact David Jones 2. At our supermarket collections mainly on Saturdays a few times per year. Contact Brian Benford 3. At the Distribution Centre, talking to clients, providing tea and cake>>

<<speak to the CAB or your doctor, health visitor, social worker or other care professional and they will issue you with a foodbank voucher.

FoodBank Food StoreBring your voucher into the King's Centre on Wednesday (9-11am) or one of the other centres where it will be redeemed for 3 days worth of food.

While you wait for your food, sit down and have a cup of tea/coffee and chat to the helpers who are ready with a listening ear>>>

<<Foodbank clients bring their voucher to a foodbank centre where it is exchanged for a three day emergency food package, complete with suggested nutritious recipes to help them make best use of the food. At a foodbank centre, clients can meet with our volunteers, relax and enjoy a cup of tea. Where it is difficult for the client to reach one of our foodbank centres we can often arrange delivery of food to a client’s home.>>

GP's have been brought into the voucher issuing mix and just issue vouchers so they aren't blocking time with the genuinely ill(www.mirror.co.uk)

<<Doctors – along with social workers, health visitors and social organisations – are allowed to refer people who need rations .
....

And they say the rising number of those seeking food handouts is stretching resources to the limit.

Dr Peter Swinyard, chair of the Family Doctors Association and a GP in Swindon, Wilts, said: “How are we supposed to know whether someone is, what in Dickensian terms you might call the ‘deserving poor’, and who is basically a scrounger just trying to a get a free meal out of the system? It is putting GPs in an impossible position.”

....... “We’re so busy already I don’t know how we are going to find the time to see all these other patients.”

She revealed: “I had one who asked for a food bank referral because she was on low income. l don’t know how much money she had, but how could I have said no? So I signed it.”

... he simply wrote on one referral note: “My patient tells me he is hungry, and I have no reason to disbelieve him.”

Many GPs are unaware food banks are referring people until they walk through the surgery doors.
<<
Surely the relative point is food banks are an increasing necessity under this government ?
Who says?

If supermarkets gave away free food for three days they would be mobbed

The OP didn't seem to be aware that foodbanks are a franchise business with paid staff so the aim is to have as many franchisees as possible - hence the numbers opening

They also appear to be of the view that it's hard to get a foodbank voucher - that doesn't appear to be true either

The OP also doesn't seem to be aware that foodbanks serve refreshments to users as a matter of course while they await their free food

Some people probably do need help with food use , three days free food isn't going to stop malnutrition and benefits pay more than enough to eat - I wonder the percentage of foodbank users with smartphones,Sky TV, smokers, drinkers etc ?. That's a personal budgeting issue

Schoolchildren get free school meals where required

The only people ''starving'' in the UK today are doing so by choice or illness - they need help from other agencies
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Cymru
Alt-Right
[ *  *  *  * ]
C-too
Aug 21 2015, 08:01 AM
Cymru
Aug 21 2015, 07:44 AM
C-too
Aug 21 2015, 06:41 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Not when you preside over a lack of regulation over the financial markets which causes a crash that results in much more than 1.6 million going back into poverty.
Nonsense, please stop reproducing the lies and the insinuated lies of the Tory party. The international financial meltdown was the problem and no government was prepared for it.

For further education see post 1024 page 26, on this thread.
You are deliberately conflating two separate issues to muddy the waters.

Labour's lack of regulation of the financial sector was a problem in and of itself which, left unresolved, ended up making the predicted crash, when it came, that much more harder to deal with.

If the roof had been fixed whilst the sun was shining we wouldn't have ended up wet when the rain came.

The fact that you barely go a post without mentioning the Tories merely exposes your bias.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Politics · Next Topic »
Locked Topic