Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Uk Debate Mk 2, the UK's liveliest political and social debate site.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Locked Topic
Labour Leadership Contest; merged thread
Topic Started: May 15 2015, 01:02 PM (2,208 Views)
Tytoalba
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Chuka Umunna withdraws Labour leader bid, Who is left to lead them? The BBC has been attacking UKIP and Farrage for days, but at least they have a leader. Labour are in a state of uncertainty, and we do need a good opposition in the HOC,
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Replies:
Affa
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
disgruntled porker
Aug 31 2015, 09:21 AM

You are missing the point. I have always aknowledged that we need entrepreneurs. We also need a workforce. The best entrepreneur in the world cannot succeed without a workforce to work for him. They are as vital to the end result as the entrepreneur himself. Lets not get pedantic about who is most important; neither would prosper without each other.

My daughter works for an entrepreneur, and in his own words, during and after the last crisis/recession, 'if it had not been for you we would have folded this time', she apparently worked hard to establish new outlets to replace some of those that had been lost ........ today the roster is twice what it was. They all owe her a lot.

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
disgruntled porker
Member Avatar
Older than most people think I am.
[ *  *  * ]
Affa
Aug 31 2015, 09:31 AM
disgruntled porker
Aug 31 2015, 09:21 AM

You are missing the point. I have always aknowledged that we need entrepreneurs. We also need a workforce. The best entrepreneur in the world cannot succeed without a workforce to work for him. They are as vital to the end result as the entrepreneur himself. Lets not get pedantic about who is most important; neither would prosper without each other.

My daughter works for an entrepreneur, and in his own words, during and after the last crisis/recession, 'if it had not been for you we would have folded this time', she apparently worked hard to establish new outlets to replace some of those that had been lost ........ today the roster is twice what it was. They all owe her a lot.

I imagine that the unskilled workers at the bottom of the pile also worked very hard to produce the goods to supply to these new outlets too. Or doesn't their part in it count at all?
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
RJD
Aug 31 2015, 07:03 AM


As for the company he keeps, I generally do not like the "guilt by association" slur, but Mr Corbyn does seem to want to invite such.


Cameron employing a criminal who hacks the phones of dead schoolgirls?

Blair parading with Gadaffi, Assad et al?

Major cuddling up to ME despots and serial violators of human rights?

Thatch? Take your pick on that one.........

Best not to pretend you don't mean something when you do, it's a bit dishonest in my opinion. :)
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
RJD
Aug 31 2015, 07:17 AM
Yes you need air to breath. But it is the bravery of Entrepreneurs that take great personal risks to create such business Empires not the Workers who clearly over rate their importances in such activities.


Really? Bravery? :'(

I've yet to meet a single business owner who did not do it it enrich himself, myself included, a few might develop a conscience when the money starts to flood in and you are able to meet all your own material needs, you then might even consider spreading some of that money around.

Now if you run a business that needs skills other than those you might find Piotr has after he steps of the ferry at Hull you will be in a position of being totally reliant on those skilled people to keep the business viable and functioning on a day to day basis. It takes time to build any business and without quality staff the business will fold in very short order. I've found that businesses who treat their staff with the sort of barely disguised contempt you are exhibiting here tend to run into several problems regarding productivity, staff turnover and customer satisfaction. Continuity is vital for success.

File under bog standard compo, minus the deprived childhood that sometimes it would seem removes humility......
Edited by Tigger, Aug 31 2015, 11:56 AM.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Pro Veritas
Upstanding Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
So it seems Corbyn is now a defender of Osama Bin Ladan......

...except of course he isn't, and if you read what he actually said it is abundantly clear that he isn't.

So here's the BBC article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34106214

Here are comments from two, supposedly, intelligent MPs:
Quote:
 
Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron said Mr Corbyn was "utterly wrong" for what he had said while Kevan Jones, Labour's defence spokesman, said: "This just shows you how out of touch he is with what most people's views are."
Conservative MP Nadhim Zahawi said: "Osama bin Laden was a terrorist who any sensible human being in the world would want either killed or arrested. For him to call this a tragedy and appear to compare it to what happened on 9/11 is frightening."


And here is what Mr Corbyn actually said:
Quote:
 
In an interview with Iranian Press TV show The Agenda, Mr Corbyn described the attack on the World Trade Centre, wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the death of Bin Laden as tragedies, arguing "the solution has got to be law not war".
"There was no attempt whatsoever that I can see to arrest him and put him on trial, to go through that process," he said.
"This was an assassination attempt, and is yet another tragedy, upon a tragedy, upon tragedy."


Now, my personal opinion is that the world is a lot better off with Mr Bin Laden out of it.

But I would still rather, in principle, see countries try to uphold the principles of law and order.

All The Best
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Phoenix One UK
Regular Member
[ *  *  * ]
Labour have been “in denial” about threat from UKIP, says Dan Jarvis

http://labourlist.org/2015/08/labour-have-been-in-denial-about-threat-from-ukip-says-dan-jarvis/

More than 40,000 union activists caught voting twice: Fears grow over validity of Labour's leader race

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3210801/40-000-union-activists-caught-voting-twice-Fears-grow-validity-Labour-s-leader-race.html#ixzz3kOuSjLsK


Unquote:=====================

The first link is to Labour's own site, the second is DM. I was so tempted to start a thread n both, but the hell with it. The GE is over, and Labour are in a mess.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Phoenix One UK
Regular Member
[ *  *  * ]
'Labour MUST tackle Ukip head on if they want to win in 2020', warns Dan Jarvis

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/labour-must-tackle-ukip-head-6340034

Unquote:=====================

The above headline comes from the Mirror, a Labour paper.

Anyway, I will leave you all to it.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Cymru
Alt-Right
[ *  *  *  * ]
Thank God we have the right-wing press to tell us what a disaster Jeremy Corbyn as PM would be

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/thank-god-we-have-the-rightwing-press-to-tell-us-what-a-disaster-jeremy-corbyn-as-pm-would-be-10475557.html

Steel nails it.

The right-wing hysteria over Corbyn is reaching ludicrous levels.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Cymru
Sep 1 2015, 12:19 PM
Thank God we have the right-wing press to tell us what a disaster Jeremy Corbyn as PM would be

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/thank-god-we-have-the-rightwing-press-to-tell-us-what-a-disaster-jeremy-corbyn-as-pm-would-be-10475557.html

Steel nails it.

The right-wing hysteria over Corbyn is reaching ludicrous levels.
Well that's written by Mark Steel whose dotty politics make Corbyn seem right wing in comparison

"nails it" more like a heap of bollocks from a comedian
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
For the education of Cymru and Mark Steel

http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2003-04/1255

House of Commons Motion
 
That this House . .believes that humans represent the most obscene, perverted, cruel, uncivilised and lethal species ever to inhabit the planet and looks forward to the day when the inevitable asteroid slams into the earth and wipes them out thus giving nature the opportunity to start again.


Supported by just Tony Banks, Jeremy Corbyn and some months later John McDonnell

No it wasn't April Fools day but it was 3 fools that signed it. This will come back to haunt him if he ever makes PMQs
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Cymru
Alt-Right
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Sep 1 2015, 01:29 PM
For the education of Cymru and Mark Steel

http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2003-04/1255

House of Commons Motion
 
That this House . .believes that humans represent the most obscene, perverted, cruel, uncivilised and lethal species ever to inhabit the planet and looks forward to the day when the inevitable asteroid slams into the earth and wipes them out thus giving nature the opportunity to start again.


Supported by just Tony Banks, Jeremy Corbyn and some months later John McDonnell

No it wasn't April Fools day but it was 3 fools that signed it. This will come back to haunt him if he ever makes PMQs
Interesting the bit you missed out, rather puts a different context on what was being said, one which most people would probably agree with.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
marybrown
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Heinrich
Aug 30 2015, 09:27 AM
British Jews come to Jeremy Corbyn's defense
"Hundeds of British Jews have launched a campaign to rally behind Jeremy Corbyn’s bid for the Labour leadership in the face of smears painting him as an anti-semite."
Morning Star
This Jewish group is particularly critical of "some unscrupulous sections of the media" in England. It did surprise me that recently Channel 4 News jumped on the bandwagon by devoting an interview by Cathy Newman, in an attempt to slur Jeremy Corbyn, to his alleged links with Holocaust deniers and people with anti-Semitic views.

What a tangled web we weave..when first we practice to deceive..
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Cymru
Sep 1 2015, 02:03 PM
Steve K
Sep 1 2015, 01:29 PM
For the education of Cymru and Mark Steel

http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2003-04/1255

House of Commons Motion
 
That this House . .believes that humans represent the most obscene, perverted, cruel, uncivilised and lethal species ever to inhabit the planet and looks forward to the day when the inevitable asteroid slams into the earth and wipes them out thus giving nature the opportunity to start again.


Supported by just Tony Banks, Jeremy Corbyn and some months later John McDonnell

No it wasn't April Fools day but it was 3 fools that signed it. This will come back to haunt him if he ever makes PMQs
Interesting the bit you missed out, rather puts a different context on what was being said, one which most people would probably agree with.
No it's not, that's a false flag by you. It's arguably worse but certainly more verbose when you read the whole thing

Jeremy Corbyn and Tony Banks
 
That this House is appalled, but barely surprised, at the revelations in M15 files regarding the bizarre and inhumane proposals to use pigeons as flying bombs; recognises the important and live-saving role of carrier pigeons in two world wars and wonders at the lack of gratitude towards these gentle creatures; and believes that humans represent the most obscene, perverted, cruel, uncivilised and lethal species ever to inhabit the planet and looks forward to the day when the inevitable asteroid slams into the earth and wipes them out thus giving nature the opportunity to start again.


it matters not a flying fig why he wanted us all to die, the fact is he's an unstable little nutjob that when peeved by MI5 about Pigeons decided he wanted us all to die.

Or perhaps in your language "that humans represent the most obscene, perverted, cruel, uncivilised and lethal species ever to inhabit the planet and looks forward to the day when the inevitable asteroid slams into the earth and wipes them out" has a different meaning

Corbyn = Nutter, end of.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Cymru
Alt-Right
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Sep 1 2015, 02:34 PM
Cymru
Sep 1 2015, 02:03 PM
Steve K
Sep 1 2015, 01:29 PM
For the education of Cymru and Mark Steel

http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2003-04/1255


Quoting limited to 3 levels deepooks forward to the day when the inevitable asteroid slams into the earth and wipes them outJeremy Corbyn and some months later John McDonnell

No it wasn't April Fools day but it was 3 fools that signed it. This will come back to haunt him if he ever makes PMQs
Interesting the bit you missed out, rather puts a different context on what was being said, one which most people would probably agree with.
No it's not, that's a false flag by you. It's arguably worse but certainly more verbose when you read the whole thing

Jeremy Corbyn and Tony Banks
 
That this House is appalled, but barely surprised, at the revelations in M15 files regarding the bizarre and inhumane proposals to use pigeons as flying bombs; recognises the important and live-saving role of carrier pigeons in two world wars and wonders at the lack of gratitude towards these gentle creatures; and believes that humans represent the most obscene, perverted, cruel, uncivilised and lethal species ever to inhabit the planet and looks forward to the day when the inevitable asteroid slams into the earth and wipes them out thus giving nature the opportunity to start again.


it matters not a flying fig why he wanted us all to die, the fact is he's an unstable little nutjob that when peeved by MI5 about Pigeons decided he wanted us all to die.

Or perhaps in your language "that humans represent the most obscene, perverted, cruel, uncivilised and lethal species ever to inhabit the planet and looks forward to the day when the inevitable asteroid slams into the earth and wipes them out" has a different meaning

Corbyn = Nutter, end of.
Well if you are going to bandy about allegations of false flags I'd say the false flag was all yours. :P

But in all seriousness there's nothing particularly unusual in the deliberately passionate language used in that statement. The fact you give it an importance way beyond what it merits is likely exactly what those behind the statement intended when they used such language.
Edited by Cymru, Sep 1 2015, 05:09 PM.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Sep 1 2015, 01:09 PM
Cymru
Sep 1 2015, 12:19 PM
Thank God we have the right-wing press to tell us what a disaster Jeremy Corbyn as PM would be

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/thank-god-we-have-the-rightwing-press-to-tell-us-what-a-disaster-jeremy-corbyn-as-pm-would-be-10475557.html

Steel nails it.

The right-wing hysteria over Corbyn is reaching ludicrous levels.
Well that's written by Mark Steel whose dotty politics make Corbyn seem right wing in comparison

"nails it" more like a heap of bollocks from a comedian
It's going to be hilarious to watch a non establishment figure standing opposite Cameron in the Commons and pointing out all the stuff that former Labour leaders would not dare highlight, on account of their policies being virtually as corrupt and venal as the Tories!

Can't wait, chaos and fun for sure, but will it wake up the comatose British public?
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Cymru
Sep 1 2015, 12:19 PM
Thank God we have the right-wing press to tell us what a disaster Jeremy Corbyn as PM would be

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/thank-god-we-have-the-rightwing-press-to-tell-us-what-a-disaster-jeremy-corbyn-as-pm-would-be-10475557.html

Steel nails it.

The right-wing hysteria over Corbyn is reaching ludicrous levels.
A good piece and far from being a bit of a joke as some on here seem to think, these is absolutely nothing wrong with the factual content of that article.

I can only conclude that many British people have become so brainwashed, so insecure and so frightened of anything that tests their brazen hypocrisy their heads would explode if they had to think for themselves instead of pandering to the whims of our "leaders"........
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Cymru
Sep 1 2015, 04:47 PM
Steve K
Sep 1 2015, 02:34 PM
Cymru
Sep 1 2015, 02:03 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deephttp://www.parliament.uk/edm/2003-04/1255


Quoting limited to 3 levels deepooks forward to the day when the inevitable asteroid slams into the earth and wipes them outJeremy Corbyn
No it's not, that's a false flag by you. It's arguably worse but certainly more verbose when you read the whole thing

Jeremy Corbyn and Tony Banks
 
That this House is appalled, but barely surprised, at the revelations in M15 files regarding the bizarre and inhumane proposals to use pigeons as flying bombs; recognises the important and live-saving role of carrier pigeons in two world wars and wonders at the lack of gratitude towards these gentle creatures; and believes that humans represent the most obscene, perverted, cruel, uncivilised and lethal species ever to inhabit the planet and looks forward to the day when the inevitable asteroid slams into the earth and wipes them out thus giving nature the opportunity to start again.


it matters not a flying fig why he wanted us all to die, the fact is he's an unstable little nutjob that when peeved by MI5 about Pigeons decided he wanted us all to die.

Or perhaps in your language "that humans represent the most obscene, perverted, cruel, uncivilised and lethal species ever to inhabit the planet and looks forward to the day when the inevitable asteroid slams into the earth and wipes them out" has a different meaning

Corbyn = Nutter, end of.
Well if you are going to bandy about allegations of false flags I'd say the false flag was all yours. :P

But in all seriousness there's nothing particularly unusual in the deliberately passionate language used in that statement. The fact you give it an importance way beyond what it merits is likely exactly what those behind the statement intended when they used such language.
Perhaps you are missing the point. No one seriously believes Corbyn is deranged enough to really want the world to end.

But he is monumentally stupid enough to sign a document that says such. Shouldn't be trusted to boil an egg let alone carry out a vital function of our constitution or even worse of government.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Sep 1 2015, 10:19 PM


But he is monumentally stupid enough to sign a document that says such. Shouldn't be trusted to boil an egg let alone carry out a vital function of our constitution or even worse of government.
Well there is someone else I could mention who signed up a communications director despite the fact that there had been stories circulating since 2006 that this chap had been illegally tapping phones, he was also regularly publishing stories that could only have come from those covert sources.

The employer of this bloke was re elected despite this and is apparently still boiling eggs on behalf of the nation.........
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tigger
Sep 1 2015, 10:34 PM
Steve K
Sep 1 2015, 10:19 PM


But he is monumentally stupid enough to sign a document that says such. Shouldn't be trusted to boil an egg let alone carry out a vital function of our constitution or even worse of government.
Well there is someone else I could mention who signed up a communications director despite the fact that there had been stories circulating since 2006 that this chap had been illegally tapping phones, he was also regularly publishing stories that could only have come from those covert sources.

The employer of this bloke was re elected despite this and is apparently still boiling eggs on behalf of the nation.........
Ah but maybe he was being blackmailed by something Coulson had tapped off his phone ;-)

Actually the record probably went more like this. CMD asked for him to be security cleared and the intelligence services came back and said "squeaky clean" and CMD didn't think these might be the same obsequious bozos who were prepared to tell Blair exactly what he wanted to hear too.

But we digress. Corbyn is a nut for signing that please kill us all motion
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Rich
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Sep 1 2015, 10:19 PM
Cymru
Sep 1 2015, 04:47 PM
Steve K
Sep 1 2015, 02:34 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deephttp://www.parliament.uk/edm/2003-04/1255


Quoting limited to 3 levels deepooks forward to the day when the inevitable asteroid slams into the earth and wipes them outJeremy Corbyn"that humans represent the most obscene, perverted, cruel, uncivilised and lethal species ever to inhabit the planet and looks forward to the day when the inevitable asteroid slams into the earth and wipes them out" has a different meaning

Corbyn = Nutter, end of.
Well if you are going to bandy about allegations of false flags I'd say the false flag was all yours. :P

But in all seriousness there's nothing particularly unusual in the deliberately passionate language used in that statement. The fact you give it an importance way beyond what it merits is likely exactly what those behind the statement intended when they used such language.
Perhaps you are missing the point. No one seriously believes Corbyn is deranged enough to really want the world to end.

But he is monumentally stupid enough to sign a document that says such. Shouldn't be trusted to boil an egg let alone carry out a vital function of our constitution or even worse of government.
The thing is, what other world statesman like person would take him seriously....Gordon Brown was snubbed in the states, Mr Corbyn would not even be invited let alone given listening time.

I have no problems with the Labour party choosing him as their leader because that will only show that the membership themselves have no good sense of judgement unless you look at it from the stance that he is the best of the bunch which only says the others must be even worse.

What can one say?, the future of the labour party/movement is in the hands of it's members whom I think will be carping from the sidelines for the next 2 decades if Mr Corbyn wins.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
johnofgwent
Member Avatar
It .. It is GREEN !!
[ *  *  *  * ]
gansao
Aug 30 2015, 02:01 PM
Well as you mentioned the IRA...it would not be supporting terrorism to meet Sinn fein/IRA members and claiming that they have a grievance.

Well that's your opinion.

I think you will find the law somewhat deviates from your ideal. For a start, meeting with IRA Members whether to discuss their grievances or not would be a bit of a problem seeing as they are a proscribed organisation. Meeting members of Sinn Fein may not have the same problem in SOME people's eyes ... but I think Corbyn and Livingstone's hob-nobbing was done at the height of the ban on Adams' voice being broadcast as part of Thatcher's policy f denying them the oxygen of publicity - for all the good that did.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Heinrich
Member Avatar
Regular Guy
[ *  *  *  * ]
By trying to get the convictions overturned on a charge of conspiracy to bomb the Israeli embassy in London of two people, Jeremy Corbyn is smeared again as somehow Antisemitic by The Jewish Chronicle. The court case was in 1996 and Corbyn believed it was a "miscarriage of justice".
The Jewish Chronicle
This newspaper is like a dog with a bone, one might say on a campaign to malign Jeremy Corbyn as an enemy of Jews.
In 2002 Paul Foot (RIP), writing in The Guardian and given the lack of disclosure of evidence by MI5 which would have exonerated the pair, reasoned, "Surely these two young people should not have to rot any longer in jail. The plain fact is that someone else, with no connection to either prisoner, bombed the Israeli embassy. No European court or hearing under the Human Rights Act could possibly conclude that the trial of Samar and Jawad was fair. Both should be released at once on bail while their innocence is established."
The Guardian
Perhaps The Jewish Chronicle considers Paul Foot to have been an Antisemite too.
Edited by Heinrich, Sep 1 2015, 11:37 PM.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
Truth is that the claims of the Jewish community are not restricted to a single matter, but relate to a string of situations where they claim that Corbyn gave succour to the enemies of Israel. Heinrich stop being a Cherry Picker.
I would not condemn Corbyn for such, for me his silly views on the People's QE are enough for me to believe he would be a danger to Joe Public. Clearly he is a loon. He even thinks that nationalising the Rail Carriers and Utilities would benefit Joe Public. Clearly he has learned little in his long life of doing not much other than sucking on the State's titties. The man is a joke.

If elected it will be interesting to see how much authority he will command over Labour MPs. I suspect he will be a lame duck from Day One and doubt he would last more than a year. Still it will be interesting watching Labour move from being an electable Party to one that tears itself apart. I think that Labour will no longer be a Political Party as such wishes to gain power to implement it's preferred policies, but become a Debating Group determined to to expose it's massive differences in public.

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Heinrich
Member Avatar
Regular Guy
[ *  *  *  * ]
RJD
Sep 2 2015, 08:43 AM
Truth is that the claims of the Jewish community are not restricted to a single matter, but relate to a string of situations where they claim that Corbyn gave succour to the enemies of Israel. Heinrich stop being a Cherry Picker.
I would not condemn Corbyn for such, for me his silly views on the People's QE are enough for me to believe he would be a danger to Joe Public. Clearly he is a loon. He even thinks that nationalising the Rail Carriers and Utilities would benefit Joe Public. Clearly he has learned little in his long life of doing not much other than sucking on the State's titties. The man is a joke.

If elected it will be interesting to see how much authority he will command over Labour MPs. I suspect he will be a lame duck from Day One and doubt he would last more than a year. Still it will be interesting watching Labour move from being an electable Party to one that tears itself apart. I think that Labour will no longer be a Political Party as such wishes to gain power to implement it's preferred policies, but become a Debating Group determined to to expose it's massive differences in public.

I cannot be accused of cherry-picking since my post is in response to the campaign of The Jewish Chronicle to malign Jeremy Corbyn as Antisemitic. The article said nothing of his rejection of the British government to borrow billions in order to nationalize the debt of private banks and how this money could better have been used as quantitative easing for investment in industry, education, and infrastructure.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
Heinrich
Sep 2 2015, 08:54 AM
RJD
Sep 2 2015, 08:43 AM
Truth is that the claims of the Jewish community are not restricted to a single matter, but relate to a string of situations where they claim that Corbyn gave succour to the enemies of Israel. Heinrich stop being a Cherry Picker.
I would not condemn Corbyn for such, for me his silly views on the People's QE are enough for me to believe he would be a danger to Joe Public. Clearly he is a loon. He even thinks that nationalising the Rail Carriers and Utilities would benefit Joe Public. Clearly he has learned little in his long life of doing not much other than sucking on the State's titties. The man is a joke.

If elected it will be interesting to see how much authority he will command over Labour MPs. I suspect he will be a lame duck from Day One and doubt he would last more than a year. Still it will be interesting watching Labour move from being an electable Party to one that tears itself apart. I think that Labour will no longer be a Political Party as such wishes to gain power to implement it's preferred policies, but become a Debating Group determined to to expose it's massive differences in public.

I cannot be accused of cherry-picking since my post is in response to the campaign of The Jewish Chronicle to malign Jeremy Corbyn as Antisemitic. The article said nothing of his rejection of the British government to borrow billions in order to nationalize the debt of private banks and how this money could better have been used as quantitative easing for investment in industry, education, and infrastructure.
You used a single example when the claims, by the Jewish Community not me, are legion. You lack balance. Your reference to the British Gov. is irrelevant. My interest here is to expose you as a serial bigot who cherry picks and never offers a balanced view.

Tell us how the UK rates in accepting Asylum Seekers compared with all other EU countries over the last decade, say. Year by year will do.

Tell us about the stance taken by other EU countries wrt to taking a share of these Economic Migrants?





Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Heinrich
Member Avatar
Regular Guy
[ *  *  *  * ]
RJD
Sep 2 2015, 08:59 AM
Heinrich
Sep 2 2015, 08:54 AM
RJD
Sep 2 2015, 08:43 AM
Truth is that the claims of the Jewish community are not restricted to a single matter, but relate to a string of situations where they claim that Corbyn gave succour to the enemies of Israel. Heinrich stop being a Cherry Picker.
I would not condemn Corbyn for such, for me his silly views on the People's QE are enough for me to believe he would be a danger to Joe Public. Clearly he is a loon. He even thinks that nationalising the Rail Carriers and Utilities would benefit Joe Public. Clearly he has learned little in his long life of doing not much other than sucking on the State's titties. The man is a joke.

If elected it will be interesting to see how much authority he will command over Labour MPs. I suspect he will be a lame duck from Day One and doubt he would last more than a year. Still it will be interesting watching Labour move from being an electable Party to one that tears itself apart. I think that Labour will no longer be a Political Party as such wishes to gain power to implement it's preferred policies, but become a Debating Group determined to to expose it's massive differences in public.

I cannot be accused of cherry-picking since my post is in response to the campaign of The Jewish Chronicle to malign Jeremy Corbyn as Antisemitic. The article said nothing of his rejection of the British government to borrow billions in order to nationalize the debt of private banks and how this money could better have been used as quantitative easing for investment in industry, education, and infrastructure.
You used a single example when the claims, by the Jewish Community not me, are legion. You lack balance. Your reference to the British Gov. is irrelevant. My interest here is to expose you as a serial bigot who cherry picks and never offers a balanced view.

Tell us how the UK rates in accepting Asylum Seekers compared with all other EU countries over the last decade, say. Year by year will do.

Tell us about the stance taken by other EU countries wrt to taking a share of these Economic Migrants?





The article in The Jewish Chronicle was about a single issue of Jeremy Corbyn's belief that the conviction for conspiracy of two people was a miscarriage of justice. It has happened before and proved to be so with people whom the MI5 and the police knew to be innocent but proceeded to stitch-up in a court of law.

You went on to talk about quantitative easing proposed by Jeremy Corbyn and out of politeness I answered you to give a balanced opinion.

The article I cited said nothing about exaggerated numbers of "economic migrants" among the refugee families seeking asylum in Europe.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Tytoalba
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Heinrich
Sep 2 2015, 08:54 AM
RJD
Sep 2 2015, 08:43 AM
Truth is that the claims of the Jewish community are not restricted to a single matter, but relate to a string of situations where they claim that Corbyn gave succour to the enemies of Israel. Heinrich stop being a Cherry Picker.
I would not condemn Corbyn for such, for me his silly views on the People's QE are enough for me to believe he would be a danger to Joe Public. Clearly he is a loon. He even thinks that nationalising the Rail Carriers and Utilities would benefit Joe Public. Clearly he has learned little in his long life of doing not much other than sucking on the State's titties. The man is a joke.

If elected it will be interesting to see how much authority he will command over Labour MPs. I suspect he will be a lame duck from Day One and doubt he would last more than a year. Still it will be interesting watching Labour move from being an electable Party to one that tears itself apart. I think that Labour will no longer be a Political Party as such wishes to gain power to implement it's preferred policies, but become a Debating Group determined to to expose it's massive differences in public.

I cannot be accused of cherry-picking since my post is in response to the campaign of The Jewish Chronicle to malign Jeremy Corbyn as Antisemitic. The article said nothing of his rejection of the British government to borrow billions in order to nationalize the debt of private banks and how this money could better have been used as quantitative easing for investment in industry, education, and infrastructure.
Corbyn has voted against his party line, over 500 times, from a report I heard on a discussion programme.
If he is elected to lead the party he is likely to get the same response from his fellow MPs to his proposals. He would hardly be in a position to complain about their principles when he will have set the precedence for them to follow.
He may well be a good constancy MP, but he is not Cabinet material, or he would have been in the shadow cabinet already, and is certainly not a fit person to lead a united party party into an election.

Quote.

A rival camp supporter claims: “Jeremy can’t even pretend to claim he believes in party discipline. Even if he argues that he has a mandate from party members, it will be no greater than any mandate previous leaders have had when Jeremy was happy to rebel against them on every other vote. He will be absolutely stuffed when it comes to getting Labour MPs to toe the party line and obey the whips.”
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Cymru
Alt-Right
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tytoalba
Sep 2 2015, 09:33 AM
Heinrich
Sep 2 2015, 08:54 AM
RJD
Sep 2 2015, 08:43 AM
Truth is that the claims of the Jewish community are not restricted to a single matter, but relate to a string of situations where they claim that Corbyn gave succour to the enemies of Israel. Heinrich stop being a Cherry Picker.
I would not condemn Corbyn for such, for me his silly views on the People's QE are enough for me to believe he would be a danger to Joe Public. Clearly he is a loon. He even thinks that nationalising the Rail Carriers and Utilities would benefit Joe Public. Clearly he has learned little in his long life of doing not much other than sucking on the State's titties. The man is a joke.

If elected it will be interesting to see how much authority he will command over Labour MPs. I suspect he will be a lame duck from Day One and doubt he would last more than a year. Still it will be interesting watching Labour move from being an electable Party to one that tears itself apart. I think that Labour will no longer be a Political Party as such wishes to gain power to implement it's preferred policies, but become a Debating Group determined to to expose it's massive differences in public.

I cannot be accused of cherry-picking since my post is in response to the campaign of The Jewish Chronicle to malign Jeremy Corbyn as Antisemitic. The article said nothing of his rejection of the British government to borrow billions in order to nationalize the debt of private banks and how this money could better have been used as quantitative easing for investment in industry, education, and infrastructure.
Corbyn has voted against his party line, over 500 times, from a report I heard on a discussion programme.
Good.

Fed up of the usual party toadies.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Heinrich
Member Avatar
Regular Guy
[ *  *  *  * ]
Cymru
Sep 2 2015, 10:49 AM
Tytoalba
Sep 2 2015, 09:33 AM
Heinrich
Sep 2 2015, 08:54 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep The Jewish Chronicle to malign Jeremy Corbyn as Antisemitic. The article said nothing of his rejection of the British government to borrow billions in order to nationalize the debt of private banks and how this money could better have been used as quantitative easing for investment in industry, education, and infrastructure.
Corbyn has voted against his party line, over 500 times, from a report I heard on a discussion programme.
Good.

Fed up of the usual party toadies.
Yes indeed. One of the ways in which Parliament is dysfunctional is how the Cabinet impose their policies on backbenchers. It gives the impression that MPs are expected to be more loyal to the prime minister than to their constituents or their own conscience.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
Heinrich
Sep 2 2015, 11:29 AM
Cymru
Sep 2 2015, 10:49 AM
Tytoalba
Sep 2 2015, 09:33 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep The Jewish Chronicle
Good.

Fed up of the usual party toadies.
Yes indeed. One of the ways in which Parliament is dysfunctional is how the Cabinet impose their policies on backbenchers. It gives the impression that MPs are expected to be more loyal to the prime minister than to their constituents or their own conscience.
Have you not noticed that such is universal and has been custom and practise for hundreds of years. Without such discipline there would be chaos and Gov. would grind to a halt. Grinding to a halt could be a good idea as it will stop politicians wasting Taxpayer's money.

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
RJD
Sep 2 2015, 11:55 AM
Heinrich
Sep 2 2015, 11:29 AM
Cymru
Sep 2 2015, 10:49 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep The Jewish Chronicle
Yes indeed. One of the ways in which Parliament is dysfunctional is how the Cabinet impose their policies on backbenchers. It gives the impression that MPs are expected to be more loyal to the prime minister than to their constituents or their own conscience.
Have you not noticed that such is universal and has been custom and practise for hundreds of years. Without such discipline there would be chaos and Gov. would grind to a halt. Grinding to a halt could be a good idea as it will stop politicians wasting Taxpayer's money.

The problem is the great British electorate who voted for First Past the Post

Such makes it very rare for a candidate to get elected unless they take on the flag of an existing party. It's not unreasonable for such party to quid pro quo expect such MP to then be loyal to the party line

The blame lies with the electorate, such is democracy :banghead:
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Sep 2 2015, 11:59 AM
RJD
Sep 2 2015, 11:55 AM
Heinrich
Sep 2 2015, 11:29 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep The Jewish Chronicle
Have you not noticed that such is universal and has been custom and practise for hundreds of years. Without such discipline there would be chaos and Gov. would grind to a halt. Grinding to a halt could be a good idea as it will stop politicians wasting Taxpayer's money.

The problem is the great British electorate who voted for First Past the Post

Such makes it very rare for a candidate to get elected unless they take on the flag of an existing party. It's not unreasonable for such party to quid pro quo expect such MP to then be loyal to the party line

The blame lies with the electorate, such is democracy :banghead:
I do not see that lists of place-persons provided by Politicians and their Political Parties would be different. That could drive a wedge between MP and the Constituency.
I think the fundamental problem is that there are far too many career Politicians who put, for obvious reasons, Party before principle. The fact that most of these, throughout the spectrum, have little or no real World, real job, experience does not help as this does not foster individual views based on own experience. Conviction Politicians are a near extinct species.

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Affa
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tigger
Sep 1 2015, 10:34 PM
Well there is someone else I could mention who signed up a communications director despite the fact that there had been stories circulating since 2006 that this chap had been illegally tapping phones, he was also regularly publishing stories that could only have come from those covert sources.

The employer of this bloke was re elected despite this and is apparently still boiling eggs on behalf of the nation.........

He is also a signatory of the UAF ...... that blood thirsty anti democratic organisation that exists to prevent peaceful protest.

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
papasmurf
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Affa
Sep 2 2015, 06:40 PM

He is also a signatory of the UAF
So is David Cameron.
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Affa
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Rich
Sep 1 2015, 11:08 PM
The thing is, what other world statesman like person would take him seriously....Gordon Brown was snubbed in the states, Mr Corbyn would not even be invited let alone given listening time.

I have no problems with the Labour party choosing him as their leader because that will only show that the membership themselves have no good sense of judgement unless you look at it from the stance that he is the best of the bunch which only says the others must be even worse.

What can one say?, the future of the labour party/movement is in the hands of it's members whom I think will be carping from the sidelines for the next 2 decades if Mr Corbyn wins.

More Tory BS ...... G Brown was invited to address Congress, and it has been two (maybe three) recent Tory leaders that the US government have snubbed.
Which makes you point invalid.

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Affa
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
papasmurf
Sep 2 2015, 06:47 PM
Affa
Sep 2 2015, 06:40 PM

He is also a signatory of the UAF
So is David Cameron.
That's who I was referring to .........

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Sep 1 2015, 10:42 PM
Ah but maybe he was being blackmailed by something Coulson had tapped off his phone ;-)

Actually the record probably went more like this. CMD asked for him to be security cleared and the intelligence services came back and said "squeaky clean" and CMD didn't think these might be the same obsequious bozos who were prepared to tell Blair exactly what he wanted to hear too.

But we digress. Corbyn is a nut for signing that please kill us all motion
I think it's far more banal than that, Cameron thought he could get a Murdoch apparatchic on the staff and get some favourable headlines into the bargain. It'll be interesting to see in the newly reinstated ginger one goes after Cameron and his establishment chums after what she and Rupe were put through.

Corbyn is but an amateur by comparison to what Cameron has got himself into here..........
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
RJD
Sep 2 2015, 03:48 PM
Conviction Politicians are a near extinct species.

Jeffery Archer, Lord Hanningfield, the Jock bloke who beats up teenagers?
Offline Profile Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
RJD
Sep 2 2015, 03:48 PM
Steve K
Sep 2 2015, 11:59 AM
The problem is the great British electorate who voted for First Past the Post

Such makes it very rare for a candidate to get elected unless they take on the flag of an existing party. It's not unreasonable for such party to quid pro quo expect such MP to then be loyal to the party line

The blame lies with the electorate, such is democracy :banghead:
I do not see that lists of place-persons provided by Politicians and their Political Parties would be different. That could drive a wedge between MP and the Constituency. . .
I agree.

That's why AV would have worked, you still get a constituency MP but he/she could no longer sit back and be an arse knowing that wrapping themself in a Tory or Labour flag would guarantee their re-election.

But the UK electorate wanted what it thought it wanted without thinking it through. Dumb :banghead:

Offline Profile Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
Steve K
Sep 2 2015, 09:55 PM
RJD
Sep 2 2015, 03:48 PM
Steve K
Sep 2 2015, 11:59 AM
The problem is the great British electorate who voted for First Past the Post

Such makes it very rare for a candidate to get elected unless they take on the flag of an existing party. It's not unreasonable for such party to quid pro quo expect such MP to then be loyal to the party line

The blame lies with the electorate, such is democracy :banghead:
I do not see that lists of place-persons provided by Politicians and their Political Parties would be different. That could drive a wedge between MP and the Constituency. . .
I agree.

That's why AV would have worked, you still get a constituency MP but he/she could no longer sit back and be an arse knowing that wrapping themself in a Tory or Labour flag would guarantee their re-election.

But the UK electorate wanted what it thought it wanted without thinking it through. Dumb :banghead:

I suppose the British Electorate are always dumb if they do not agree with one's opinions. I think they were dumb for voting in Blair and NL, I was proven to be correct, but that's democracy for you. We have to accept the will of the people even if we think them dumb.



Offline Profile Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums with no limits on posts or members.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Politics · Next Topic »
Locked Topic