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Locked Topic
Labour Leadership Contest; merged thread
Topic Started: May 15 2015, 01:02 PM (2,204 Views)
Tytoalba
Senior Member
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Chuka Umunna withdraws Labour leader bid, Who is left to lead them? The BBC has been attacking UKIP and Farrage for days, but at least they have a leader. Labour are in a state of uncertainty, and we do need a good opposition in the HOC,
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Pro Veritas
Upstanding Member
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Tytoalba
Sep 9 2015, 09:17 AM
As the saying goes "when rape is inevitable, lie back and enjoy it."
Whatever credibility you think you had here has just been flushed down the drain.

All The Best
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Tytoalba
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Rich
Sep 9 2015, 12:01 AM
Cymru
Sep 8 2015, 11:59 PM
Rich
Sep 8 2015, 11:54 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
When the state of British politics gives you a choice between McCluskey's man or Murdoch's man I'll opt for the former.
You are of course entitled to your opinion....but please ask yourself why we have come to such a sorry state of options and why people are so cynical and distrustful of politicians.
It could be that they are basically undemocratic, and want to obtain their own way, and impose their own policies by protest, and if necessary , by force and bully boy tactics. The ballot box does not speak for them and is accepted by them except when they win. They expect others to comply, but not themselves if it does not suit their purpose.
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Pro Veritas
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Tytoalba
Sep 9 2015, 09:24 AM
The ballot box does not speak for them and is accepted by them except when they win. They expect others to comply, but not themselves if it does not suit their purpose.
And when the ballot box does speak for the Tory Fascist Bastards change the rules on how a ballot is to be held.

All The Best
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Tytoalba
Senior Member
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Pro Veritas
Sep 9 2015, 09:26 AM
Tytoalba
Sep 9 2015, 09:24 AM
The ballot box does not speak for them and is accepted by them except when they win. They expect others to comply, but not themselves if it does not suit their purpose.
And when the ballot box does speak for the Tory Fascist Bastards change the rules on how a ballot is to be held.

All The Best
So speaks the voice of reason and tolerance, substituted by vitriol and aggression. My point well made I think.
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Pro Veritas
Upstanding Member
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Tytoalba
Sep 9 2015, 09:44 AM
Pro Veritas
Sep 9 2015, 09:26 AM
Tytoalba
Sep 9 2015, 09:24 AM
The ballot box does not speak for them and is accepted by them except when they win. They expect others to comply, but not themselves if it does not suit their purpose.
And when the ballot box does speak for the Tory Fascist Bastards change the rules on how a ballot is to be held.

All The Best
So speaks the voice of reason and tolerance, substituted by vitriol and aggression. My point well made I think.
Damn right I feel aggressive towards the Tories for changing how ballots for strikes are held, but keeping an apparently broken system for elections.

Everyone who cares about democracy should be getting angry.

There are few things I have no capacity to tolerate - hypocrisy being chief among them.

The Tories wanting strike ballots to be held to higher standards than general election ballots is just such an example of hypocrisy.

And despite all the things the Tories have done that I wholeheartedly disagree with it was only when they started messing with ballots - the cornerstone of democracy and democratic representation - that I started calling them Tory Fascist Bastards.

Because making it impossible for those you oppress to express dissent at that oppression is fascism.

All The Best
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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papasmurf
Sep 9 2015, 08:01 AM
RJD
Sep 9 2015, 07:46 AM
Sounds like opinion again and that as you should know by now does not count as proof.
There is no opinion of mine involved.
What happens at Select and other Committees, is on their websites and in Hansard, video is usually available for select committee meetings as well.
If you rely on media and the press to know what is happening you will stay in the dark.
Plus there are these websites:-

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications (updated everyday in some cases weekends as well.)

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/index.html

https://www.nomisweb.co.uk/

http://tabulation-tool.dwp.gov.uk/#content

http://www.gist.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/
I do not follow your links unless you first provide good reason. Which of these links deal with job creation?
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Pro Veritas
Sep 9 2015, 09:52 AM
Tytoalba
Sep 9 2015, 09:44 AM
Pro Veritas
Sep 9 2015, 09:26 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
So speaks the voice of reason and tolerance, substituted by vitriol and aggression. My point well made I think.
Damn right I feel aggressive towards the Tories for changing how ballots for strikes are held, but keeping an apparently broken system for elections.

Everyone who cares about democracy should be getting angry.

There are few things I have no capacity to tolerate - hypocrisy being chief among them.

The Tories wanting strike ballots to be held to higher standards than general election ballots is just such an example of hypocrisy.

And despite all the things the Tories have done that I wholeheartedly disagree with it was only when they started messing with ballots - the cornerstone of democracy and democratic representation - that I started calling them Tory Fascist Bastards.

Because making it impossible for those you oppress to express dissent at that oppression is fascism.

All The Best
You are confused. Strike ballots are about a minority interest and whether they should inconvenience the majority, the GE is a different matter altogether and should be considered and debated separately.

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Pro Veritas
Upstanding Member
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RJD
Sep 9 2015, 09:57 AM
You are confused. Strike ballots are about a minority interest and whether they should inconvenience the majority, the GE is a different matter altogether and should be considered and debated separately.

No, I'm not confused at all.

Whatever rules we have for ballots should apply equally to ALL ballots, regardless of what it being balloted.

That is the ONLY way that a fair and functioning democracy can be maintained.

All The Best
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Pro Veritas
Sep 9 2015, 09:59 AM
RJD
Sep 9 2015, 09:57 AM
You are confused. Strike ballots are about a minority interest and whether they should inconvenience the majority, the GE is a different matter altogether and should be considered and debated separately.

No, I'm not confused at all.

Whatever rules we have for ballots should apply equally to ALL ballots, regardless of what it being balloted.

That is the ONLY way that a fair and functioning democracy can be maintained.

All The Best
On what logical basis do you make such a conclusion. If we decide on PR for a GE does that automatically mean all Union votes should be based on such? I see no logical connection only that they are voting.

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Pro Veritas
Upstanding Member
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RJD
Sep 9 2015, 10:01 AM
On what logical basis do you make such a conclusion.
If you need to ask that question I think it likely you do not understand the concept of logical.

All The Best
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Tytoalba
Senior Member
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Pro Veritas
Sep 9 2015, 09:52 AM
Tytoalba
Sep 9 2015, 09:44 AM
Pro Veritas
Sep 9 2015, 09:26 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
So speaks the voice of reason and tolerance, substituted by vitriol and aggression. My point well made I think.
Damn right I feel aggressive towards the Tories for changing how ballots for strikes are held, but keeping an apparently broken system for elections.

Everyone who cares about democracy should be getting angry.

There are few things I have no capacity to tolerate - hypocrisy being chief among them.

The Tories wanting strike ballots to be held to higher standards than general election ballots is just such an example of hypocrisy.

And despite all the things the Tories have done that I wholeheartedly disagree with it was only when they started messing with ballots - the cornerstone of democracy and democratic representation - that I started calling them Tory Fascist Bastards.

Because making it impossible for those you oppress to express dissent at that oppression is fascism.

All The Best
Contact your MP and argue your case with him. That is the democratic way.
As you have just found out your release of pent up emotion got you no where, and served no useful purpose at all. ;D
I Kinjgs 19 -12
And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

To cotact your MP etc
http://https://www.writetothem.com
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Pro Veritas
Sep 9 2015, 10:03 AM
RJD
Sep 9 2015, 10:01 AM
On what logical basis do you make such a conclusion.
If you need to ask that question I think it likely you do not understand the concept of logical.

All The Best
But I do. The onus is on you, as you made the claim, to prove that the two matters are identical in nature. I have shown that they are not hence your claim logically fails the litmus test. Over to you to show your proof logically.



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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 9 2015, 09:55 AM
I do not follow your links unless you first provide good reason.
I just did RJD provide good reason, it is because you rely on the media/press which does not report the information provided on those sites that you remain in ignorance of what a complete dogs breakfast the Tories are making of things.
As for job creation austerity is killing that off, there is a big increase in zero hours jobs though. (Office For National statistics.)
Edited by papasmurf, Sep 9 2015, 10:24 AM.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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papasmurf
Sep 9 2015, 10:23 AM
RJD
Sep 9 2015, 09:55 AM
I do not follow your links unless you first provide good reason.
I just did RJD provide good reason, it is because you rely on the media/press which does not report the information provided on those sites that you remain in ignorance of what a complete dogs breakfast the Tories are making of things.
As for job creation austerity is killing that off, there is a big increase in zero hours jobs though. (Office For National statistics.)
No you provided your opinion, that should not be confused with good reason and you provided zero information as to why anyone should follow the links. Please do not fall into the trap of assuming all of your opinions are scientific fact or that your chosen links will support such as history indicates otherwise.

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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 9 2015, 10:27 AM
No you provided your opinion, that should not be confused with good reason and you provided zero information as to why anyone should follow the links.
The reason to look at those links regularly RJD is that if you bothered to do so, you would know zero hour contracts have increased dramatically but job creation has hit the buffers.
There is no opinion in those links only data.
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Stephen
Regular Member
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Steve K
Sep 6 2015, 11:25 PM
Corbyn has the dishonesty to promise what is manifestly not achievable and has the pure dishonesty to use that "the economist Richard Murphy endorses my economics" line which i showed earlier to be as dishonest a political trick as you will ever seen. He also has a track record of lying to his own party
Look we understand that you revile Mr Corby's politics and would prefer the status quo of bland non-entities all endorsing a variation of neo-liberal servitude. But you really do not have to get into such a libelous rage about it. The strategy is back-firing.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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papasmurf
Sep 9 2015, 10:53 AM
RJD
Sep 9 2015, 10:27 AM
No you provided your opinion, that should not be confused with good reason and you provided zero information as to why anyone should follow the links.
The reason to look at those links regularly RJD is that if you bothered to do so, you would know zero hour contracts have increased dramatically but job creation has hit the buffers.
There is no opinion in those links only data.
From data one makes deductions and the steps at arriving at such are for you to explain.
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papasmurf
Senior Member
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RJD
Sep 9 2015, 03:19 PM
From data one makes deductions and the steps at arriving at such are for you to explain.
Numbers on zero hours has gone up, number of jobs has stopped increasing, that is the data, all that is necessary is to look at it.
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C-too
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Stephen
Sep 9 2015, 03:14 PM
Steve K
Sep 6 2015, 11:25 PM
Corbyn has the dishonesty to promise what is manifestly not achievable and has the pure dishonesty to use that "the economist Richard Murphy endorses my economics" line which i showed earlier to be as dishonest a political trick as you will ever seen. He also has a track record of lying to his own party
Look we understand that you revile Mr Corby's politics and would prefer the status quo of bland non-entities all endorsing a variation of neo-liberal servitude. But you really do not have to get into such a libelous rage about it. The strategy is back-firing.
While many of Corbyn's desires are commendable the problem is that his approach is Old Labour. So we have to take into account that since 1951 old Labour has the grand total of 11 years in office. The Tories have a total of 40 years in office.

Despite Tory policies and influence dominating politics during the demise of the UK economy in the 20th century, they still managed to get themselves elected time after time. Those who vote for Corbyn need to ask themselves why this happens.
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skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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RJD
Sep 9 2015, 10:17 AM
Pro Veritas
Sep 9 2015, 10:03 AM
RJD
Sep 9 2015, 10:01 AM
On what logical basis do you make such a conclusion.
If you need to ask that question I think it likely you do not understand the concept of logical.

All The Best
But I do. The onus is on you, as you made the claim, to prove that the two matters are identical in nature. I have shown that they are not hence your claim logically fails the litmus test. Over to you to show your proof logically.



If you attempt to take too much power from unions, just as if you give them too much, expect some kind of backlash.

No one really wants to see any significant strikes or perhaps even civil unrest, but the inflammatory rhetoric from ALL sides, isn't a promising sign.
Edited by skwirked, Sep 9 2015, 03:41 PM.
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Stephen
Sep 9 2015, 03:14 PM
Steve K
Sep 6 2015, 11:25 PM
Corbyn has the dishonesty to promise what is manifestly not achievable and has the pure dishonesty to use that "the economist Richard Murphy endorses my economics" line which i showed earlier to be as dishonest a political trick as you will ever seen. He also has a track record of lying to his own party
Look we understand that you revile Mr Corby's politics and would prefer the status quo of bland non-entities all endorsing a variation of neo-liberal servitude. But you really do not have to get into such a libelous rage about it. The strategy is back-firing.
Well I'm quite capable of putting my opinions, I really do not need others to put words in my mouth. Should I ever do so please do not wait by the phone waiting for an invite as judging by that heap of bollocks ^ then clearly you less than qualified to do so.

FWIW yes I revile Corbyn's dishonesty and his icing on the cake hypocrisy for trading as the supposed white knight honest candidate when he is anything but.

Only someone who has spent a lot of time with their head in the sand going Posted Image when I post would post what you just did.

"status quo of bland non-entities all endorsing a variation of neo-liberal servitude." !jk! How risible.
Edited by Steve K, Sep 9 2015, 09:31 PM.
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Cymru
Alt-Right
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Suffragettes died for my right to vote, so don't tell me that I shouldn't vote for Jeremy Corbyn

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/suffragettes-died-for-my-right-to-vote-so-dont-tell-me-that-i-shouldnt-vote-for-jeremy-corbyn-10495014.html

This was an enjoyable read.
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Cymru
Sep 10 2015, 04:36 PM
Suffragettes died for my right to vote, so don't tell me that I shouldn't vote for Jeremy Corbyn

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/suffragettes-died-for-my-right-to-vote-so-dont-tell-me-that-i-shouldnt-vote-for-jeremy-corbyn-10495014.html

This was an enjoyable read.
Well I did think the absurdity of this bit was rather risible
Quote:
 
“If the Tories get back in, it’s down to you guys for pushing supporters like me away," I said. . . .It’s ironic that traditional Labour voters, like myself, were forced to vote elsewhere in the last election because New Labour reinvented the party on Thatcher’s principles


As if there's any evidence they were pushed away to vote for something further to the left that then failed to get MPs as a result.

The SNP clearly got MPs who formed part of a MINORITY opposition. Respect got 9,989, Communists got 1,229 votes, Workers party got 2,724 and none of the rest got more than 1,000

So the sum total of such that moved from Labour and allowed the Tories to march on is under 50,000 - which is about 1,000 times the IQ of the vacuous prat that wrote that article.

Labour lost because for right or wrong, Liberal voters in England moved to the right not left.
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C-too
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Cymru
Sep 10 2015, 04:36 PM
Suffragettes died for my right to vote, so don't tell me that I shouldn't vote for Jeremy Corbyn

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/suffragettes-died-for-my-right-to-vote-so-dont-tell-me-that-i-shouldnt-vote-for-jeremy-corbyn-10495014.html

This was an enjoyable read.
It was certainly a laughable read.
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Tytoalba
Senior Member
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Cymru
Sep 10 2015, 04:36 PM
Suffragettes died for my right to vote, so don't tell me that I shouldn't vote for Jeremy Corbyn

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/suffragettes-died-for-my-right-to-vote-so-dont-tell-me-that-i-shouldnt-vote-for-jeremy-corbyn-10495014.html

This was an enjoyable read.
Always thought you were a bloke. Never guessed
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Cymru
Alt-Right
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Tytoalba
Sep 10 2015, 09:56 PM
Cymru
Sep 10 2015, 04:36 PM
Suffragettes died for my right to vote, so don't tell me that I shouldn't vote for Jeremy Corbyn

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/suffragettes-died-for-my-right-to-vote-so-dont-tell-me-that-i-shouldnt-vote-for-jeremy-corbyn-10495014.html

This was an enjoyable read.
Always thought you were a bloke. Never guessed
Pardon?
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Well I for one am bloody glad it's all over. I understand the verdict is announced tomorrow. I shall look forward to the smirk being wiped off the face of the asshole who has for the last few years strutted round SW1A 0AA "in the name" of those of us round here ...
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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papasmurf
Sep 9 2015, 03:33 PM
RJD
Sep 9 2015, 03:19 PM
From data one makes deductions and the steps at arriving at such are for you to explain.
Numbers on zero hours has gone up, number of jobs has stopped increasing, that is the data, all that is necessary is to look at it.
Gone up from what to what? What portion of those on such contracts are content to stay with such as it is convenient for them? How many on such contracts would like to convert to full time jobs? Such date in numerical form is pertinent unless one dismisses all ZHC out of hand as not being acceptable and recommends that JSA is a better alternative.

As for the rate of job creation, high public spending hinders such. The Exchequer still needs a higher VAT rate and a Tax on Jobs in order to cover the deficit. Maybe he should just print some more dosh and print us rich?







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RJD
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johnofgwent
Sep 11 2015, 06:06 AM
Well I for one am bloody glad it's all over. I understand the verdict is announced tomorrow. I shall look forward to the smirk being wiped off the face of the asshole who has for the last few years strutted round SW1A 0AA "in the name" of those of us round here ...
To whom do you allude?
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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RJD
Sep 11 2015, 11:05 AM
johnofgwent
Sep 11 2015, 06:06 AM
Well I for one am bloody glad it's all over. I understand the verdict is announced tomorrow. I shall look forward to the smirk being wiped off the face of the asshole who has for the last few years strutted round SW1A 0AA "in the name" of those of us round here ...
To whom do you allude?
question seconded
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Steve K
Sep 10 2015, 05:08 PM
Cymru
Sep 10 2015, 04:36 PM
Suffragettes died for my right to vote, so don't tell me that I shouldn't vote for Jeremy Corbyn

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/suffragettes-died-for-my-right-to-vote-so-dont-tell-me-that-i-shouldnt-vote-for-jeremy-corbyn-10495014.html

This was an enjoyable read.
Well I did think the absurdity of this bit was rather risible
Quote:
 
“If the Tories get back in, it’s down to you guys for pushing supporters like me away," I said. . . .It’s ironic that traditional Labour voters, like myself, were forced to vote elsewhere in the last election because New Labour reinvented the party on Thatcher’s principles


As if there's any evidence they were pushed away to vote for something further to the left that then failed to get MPs as a result.

The SNP clearly got MPs who formed part of a MINORITY opposition. Respect got 9,989, Communists got 1,229 votes, Workers party got 2,724 and none of the rest got more than 1,000

So the sum total of such that moved from Labour and allowed the Tories to march on is under 50,000 - which is about 1,000 times the IQ of the vacuous prat that wrote that article.

Labour lost because for right or wrong, Liberal voters in England moved to the right not left.
Solution - move Labour policies further to the left. Somehow that does not seem to add up. Looks like Labour wants to become a minority Party.

I think it is time for an official SDP as it will take the vast majority of Labour MPs and a good number of Tory wets and possibly the Lib-Dem rump. Labour needs to dump the Loons. I believe an SDP formed in the next 12 months could win the GE in 2020. If Labour sticks with the Loons then I see a Tory majority Gov. to at least 2025.



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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Posted Image

Apt!
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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;D
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Tytoalba
Senior Member
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Cymru
Sep 10 2015, 10:52 PM
Tytoalba
Sep 10 2015, 09:56 PM
Cymru
Sep 10 2015, 04:36 PM
Suffragettes died for my right to vote, so don't tell me that I shouldn't vote for Jeremy Corbyn

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/suffragettes-died-for-my-right-to-vote-so-dont-tell-me-that-i-shouldnt-vote-for-jeremy-corbyn-10495014.html

This was an enjoyable read.
Always thought you were a bloke. Never guessed
Pardon?
Your words Suffragettes fought for your right to vote, The suffragettes fought for woman to have the right to vote, when men already had it. That reasons that you are a woman. If you are male you would already have had such a right. Simples.
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skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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Steve K
Sep 11 2015, 11:09 AM
RJD
Sep 11 2015, 11:05 AM
johnofgwent
Sep 11 2015, 06:06 AM
Well I for one am bloody glad it's all over. I understand the verdict is announced tomorrow. I shall look forward to the smirk being wiped off the face of the asshole who has for the last few years strutted round SW1A 0AA "in the name" of those of us round here ...
To whom do you allude?
question seconded
The MP for Blaneuanfyddgyddhugf Gwent I presume who must be some millionth gen now ex coal miner donkey jacket wearing 70s labour person thing
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Cymru
Alt-Right
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Tytoalba
Sep 11 2015, 09:17 PM
Cymru
Sep 10 2015, 10:52 PM
Tytoalba
Sep 10 2015, 09:56 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepSuffragettes died for my right to vote, so don't tell me that I shouldn't vote for Jeremy Corbyn

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/suffragettes-died-for-my-right-to-vote-so-dont-tell-me-that-i-shouldnt-vote-for-jeremy-corbyn-10495014.html
Pardon?
Your words Suffragettes fought for your right to vote, The suffragettes fought for woman to have the right to vote, when men already had it. That reasons that you are a woman. If you are male you would already have had such a right. Simples.
They were the words of the article writer and title of her piece, hence why I emboldened that text.
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Rich
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skwirked
Sep 11 2015, 09:28 PM
Steve K
Sep 11 2015, 11:09 AM
RJD
Sep 11 2015, 11:05 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
question seconded
The MP for Blaneuanfyddgyddhugf Gwent I presume who must be some millionth gen now ex coal miner donkey jacket wearing 70s labour person thing
What does Neil Kinnock have to do with this particular thread? !dvl!
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C-too
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Honourable Member
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Tytoalba
Sep 10 2015, 09:56 PM
Cymru
Sep 10 2015, 04:36 PM
Suffragettes died for my right to vote, so don't tell me that I shouldn't vote for Jeremy Corbyn

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/suffragettes-died-for-my-right-to-vote-so-dont-tell-me-that-i-shouldnt-vote-for-jeremy-corbyn-10495014.html

This was an enjoyable read.
Always thought you were a bloke. Never guessed
He was referring to the lefts version of Sarah Palin.
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Have the beeb got a leaked source ? their wales page title seems all about falling prostrate before the new leader Corbyn, although the first paragraph is rather more their usual mealy mouthed fare, and doesnlt actually crown him ahead of the declaration ...
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C-too
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johnofgwent
Sep 12 2015, 10:22 AM
Have the beeb got a leaked source ? their wales page title seems all about falling prostrate before the new leader Corbyn, although the first paragraph is rather more their usual mealy mouthed fare, and doesnlt actually crown him ahead of the declaration ...
The election of Corbyn reaffirms Labour's long term ability to shoot itself in the foot.
:facepalm:
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