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| Labour Leadership Contest; merged thread | |
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| Topic Started: May 15 2015, 01:02 PM (2,231 Views) | |
| Tytoalba | May 15 2015, 01:02 PM Post #1 |
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Chuka Umunna withdraws Labour leader bid, Who is left to lead them? The BBC has been attacking UKIP and Farrage for days, but at least they have a leader. Labour are in a state of uncertainty, and we do need a good opposition in the HOC, |
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| Affa | Jul 22 2015, 01:54 PM Post #241 |
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That was when the hunter gatherer took sole possession of his reward for exploits and wasn't required to give the lion's share to the 'man'. Such exploits that made valuable provisions paved the way for exploitation by others unskilled in self preservation. |
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| Heinrich | Jul 22 2015, 01:57 PM Post #242 |
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Tony Blair does not want Jeremy Corbyn to be the new leader. This is a clincher for true socialists; Corbyn is just what is needed to disinfect the party of New Labour. There is hope yet. |
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| Deleted User | Jul 22 2015, 02:01 PM Post #243 |
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Its ironic that most of the old duffers on here that spout the ' sink or swim ' mantra are the most cossetted generation of Brits..Baby boomers. |
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| Affa | Jul 22 2015, 02:02 PM Post #244 |
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| Deleted User | Jul 22 2015, 02:06 PM Post #245 |
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No its not. A (very) left wing leader will commit Labour to political irrelevance for the foreseeable future. What Labour needs is a charismatic centre left leader that is sympathetic to the left but not controlled by them. Not an overt lefty like Corbyn or a wannabe Thatcher like that scumbag Blair. |
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| RJD | Jul 22 2015, 02:07 PM Post #246 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Tony Blair:
From the man who knew something about winning an election or two or three. When was the last time a left wing Party won a majority in the UK? Was it Wilson in the early 1970s? More than 40 years ago. Best wake up and discover that the World has moved on and the EU has swung to the right. I believe that electing Corbyn will be the first of a series of death rattles for Labour and they might as well then adopt the colour black, the Belladonna as a logo and name "Last Labour". Corbyn could hardly raise enough backers a few weeks ago and now he is front runner, so what does this say about the rest? No-hopers perhaps. As someone said "he is the only one with an ounce of charm and he rarely ever smiles". |
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| Deleted User | Jul 22 2015, 02:20 PM Post #247 |
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TBH being the leader of the labour party at this moment is a poison chalice. The self congratulatory Tory bunch have a short memory. Both Labour and Tories have been consigned to the bin several times since the 70s. If the new new Labour have got their act together by the time the Tories are found to be the political spivs that they are , it all could go full circle. The problem for a left leaning Labour is that the world is changing and the West is getting poorer and less influential. I doubt that we will be able to afford the kind of society that the left desire because wealth and productivity is so easily exported. So it will be difficult to tax the people and institutions who actually have the wealth. |
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| RJD | Jul 22 2015, 02:25 PM Post #248 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Hammer hit the nail square. We spend far too much political capital on welfare and insufficient on that which creates the necessary wealth. Truth is that Labour have totally lost interest in wealth creation and Joe Voter noticed. |
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| Affa | Jul 22 2015, 02:28 PM Post #249 |
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Globalisation, the expansion of the Corporate hegemony has we all over a barrel ...... and why my third choice was a Nationalist government. One that kept ownership of everything we make, consume, and sell. To be in effect self sufficient. |
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| marybrown | Jul 22 2015, 02:33 PM Post #250 |
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Self sufficient..for whom.. So we can continue sending aid to Tanzania so they can still enjoy ''Trampoline lessons?'' |
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| Deleted User | Jul 22 2015, 03:00 PM Post #251 |
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And there we have it. The ' working class' ie middle and low earning employees ( my definition for the purposes of debate) has real issues...housing shortages, stagnating wages, job security etc . Arguably the ' natural' institutions to go for solutions would be labour centred organisations,unions, labour centred political parties ( I am loath to say left wing or socialist political parties because of the range of political views within that definition). However the unions are are but defunked and the ' natural' party of the workers , the labour party is simply tory lite ( Miliband tried to hide this by attacking what he thought were easy targets ie energy companies and spouting politically charged platitudes). UKIP wheeled out Farage who appeared to be far closer and had more empathy for the common man than the party actually was. This must have drained many many potential Labour voters from Labour . Labour had no answer except to simply demonise UKIP as they were demonising everyone else. TBH I never really got what Labour was going to be or do if it got into office. They just seemed to tell us that they were not going to be Tory and expected this ploy to work. Miliband underlined this by talking with an Essex estuary accent while being interviewed by Russel Brand and promising to put an obelisk in no 10.... |
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| Nonsense | Jul 22 2015, 10:07 PM Post #252 |
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"Labour are marching, they are marching left, left, left and left again towards permanent opposition or is it utter irrelevance"? That's the rhetoric of the right wing of politics & applies to all parties with L or R wings.. It's a complete nonsense of course,where would it indicate 'New Labour' was positioned along the political spectrum? Were they 'left' or 'right'? According to Blair, neither of them,as his mantra was , 'The Third Way' ,interpreted as,"throw everything up in the air,see where it lands",not exactly a rational stance in political terms,as one can reasonably argue that the 'reactionary' & arguably, 'radical' way that politics is being redefined by the Tories is a direct result of 'The Third Way'. Others may say of course, that it's typical 'Tory' reactionary politics,based on their ideological point of view,not a shift this way or that way. I personally think that Osborne is reading the long term consequences of what immigration has done to the country,i'm sure that anyone whose interest is in long term projections, would be appalled at the future of governmental problems the country faces. Already,in the 'right wing' press,with the idea of 'retiring' NI contributions, the spectre of retirement without state pensions is being aired,adding to my thoughts that the new compulsory contributions into pension schemes is nothing but cynical politics at play. It's clear that the Tory party is bound to a course of whittling down the welfare state to a shadow of it's former self,a consequence of mass uncontrolled immigration. Even the new state pension is not going to be given in full to a significant proportion of the population about to retire in the next 5-10 years & they will be shocked to know just how little they have to live on. Those who have paid into an occupational pension,will see a significant reduction in the state pension,due to a proportion of their occupational pension being taken off their state pension,a result of additional contributions reliefs being paid back to the goverment through that cut. Labour have little time in which to become electable,the need to reformulate the politics of that party,the effects of those changes on the level of membership,yet alone on potential voters,would seem unatainable in a five year window. The talk by Blair, is 'scaremongering hypocrisy',because what actually drove the potential electorate away at the recent election,was not 'left wing' policies,so much as 'Blairite' 'third way' neo-Liberal Capitalism being practised under a supposedly 'socially inclusive' branding of NL policies,a contradictory position if ever there was one. Edited by Nonsense, Jul 23 2015, 11:31 AM.
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| Tytoalba | Jul 23 2015, 09:37 AM Post #253 |
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In nature AFFA, where there are no artificial controls, or false idealism, Not for nothing is it decreed that that which doesn't kil us makes us stronger. and it truly is a matter of life or death has always been , and still is , the survival of the fittest. I know there is a wider humanitarian argument we can all get involved in, but the reality is in any society one needs to make a contribution to the whole where one can to benefit from it, and where all contribute in some way it makes it easier for everybody. Just helping to shuck peas in the kitchen halves the work, and makes the contribution worthwhile. |
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| Tytoalba | Jul 23 2015, 09:47 AM Post #254 |
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Saw john Prescott on the box this morning. Another Welsh windbag who couldn't stop talking, and said nothing of import, and expressed liberally why the Labour party is so divided, and is in such a mess. They just cannot go on like this and expect to gain the votes and confidence of the public. |
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| RJD | Jul 23 2015, 11:32 AM Post #255 |
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Is Prescott Welsh? I thought he came from Ellesmere Port? |
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| Nonsense | Jul 23 2015, 11:59 AM Post #256 |
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By helping oneself,one helps others. As we all know in our heads,there is no 'balance' when it comes to practicing the above in this country,there's too much helping oneself at the expense of others, no society can remain healthy,whilst there are rules that ligitimise that through the welfare state,when ONLY the needy & vulnerable really deserve such help. |
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| Jessamy Bride | Jul 23 2015, 12:51 PM Post #257 |
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I have dropped a vote for Labour on the odd occasion ...but could never vote for Jeremy Corbyn. If the Labour party are wanting the trust of middle England....they have got the wrong man.......again. This seems a bit of a vanity project by the Labour party but its not a viable alternative for me..... you'll be divorcing me.... and millions alike. |
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| C-too | Jul 23 2015, 12:53 PM Post #258 |
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Labour have driven Labour from the centre ground. The Tories will lie their legs off, in an attempt to take the centre ground, and will probably con many of the naïve to believe them, but in reality the nasty part of their DNA will make the move impossible for them. |
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| C-too | Jul 23 2015, 12:55 PM Post #259 |
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Spot on. It's sad that there are so many who cannot see the reality. |
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| marybrown | Jul 23 2015, 02:29 PM Post #260 |
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Seems that Tony Blair gets to choose the new leader.. |
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| Opinionater | Jul 23 2015, 02:57 PM Post #261 |
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Well two points here Heinrich and you may fine at least one difficult to believe. What Tony Blair has done in my opinion is raised awareness of what Corbyn stands for and as such I think the only thing he has achieved is to help him get elected. The more I listen to Corbyn the more I respect him, he offers something refreshing and seldom seen in politicians, he actually believes in what he is saying and as you say he is a true sociallist. He offers something very different that the others, think he would make a great labour leader. Would I vote for a Labour Party with him as leader, not a chance but I wish him well and my £20 at 8 to 1 to become the new leader looks good to me. |
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| papasmurf | Jul 23 2015, 03:00 PM Post #262 |
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He has got a lot more votes for Corbyn. |
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| AndyK | Jul 23 2015, 03:01 PM Post #263 |
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He is principled for sure, but that doesn't make him a good leader. His standing is pointless since he won't be around to lead the party into the next election. |
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| marybrown | Jul 23 2015, 03:04 PM Post #264 |
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Corbyn..really?..he looks like someone who sleeps on a park bench.. Edited by marybrown, Jul 23 2015, 03:04 PM.
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| Opinionater | Jul 23 2015, 03:05 PM Post #265 |
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Now ike it or not Corbyn could an for Labour if he became the new leader. After another 5 years of Tory rule a leader offering something for nothing will be popular |
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| Opinionater | Jul 23 2015, 03:22 PM Post #266 |
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Should make a good Labour man then. Now if he gets the leadership and I think he will, you could well see the problem with allowing stupid people to vote produce a left wing Labour government. Helping the poor, the unemployed, funding the NHS without limit, no intervention in wars. Oh and no consideration as to what we can afford. Millions will vote for him, it will be like Christmas until the country goes bust. |
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| marybrown | Jul 23 2015, 03:32 PM Post #267 |
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I'm really shocked..is this the best that Labour has?.. Good god... There is absolutely no way that this tramp will ever be voted Prime Minister..It's laughable.. Poisoned chalice anyone?? Until David Milliband makes a miraculous comeback?? |
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| C-too | Jul 23 2015, 03:55 PM Post #268 |
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Corbyn would lead Labour into more years in opposition, the information is there for all to see as in Foot and Milliband. Corbyn's 'heart on his sleeve' approach just does not gel with the British voters. And thank goodness it doesn't, IMO socialism is the dream world of the deluded. Politics SHOULD NOT BE ALL ABOUT ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER. It should, IMO, be about reality, objectivity, inclusivity and fairness. |
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| C-too | Jul 23 2015, 04:33 PM Post #269 |
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The short lived funding of the NHS had two points to be addressed. The scandalous conditions of the NHS inherited from the Tories in 1997 necessitating serious investment. And the long term practise of the NHS of passing economic surpluses from financially efficient hospitals to those hospitals in financial difficulties. NL said this practise must end and all hospitals must became economically sound. Blair set out to bring investment in the NHS up to the average percentage of GDP invested by other developed countries. Despite the excellent improvements in the NHS (Wanless review 2007) it is accepted that the improvements came at too high a cost. IMO the need for improvement came first, the fine tuning of the cost should/would/could have followed. |
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| marybrown | Jul 23 2015, 04:50 PM Post #270 |
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The NHS was fine in 2004..then we had an influx of Eastern Europeans in 2004..breeding for money..we have followed these children..no places in Nursery schools.. no places in junior schools...and now ..surprise, surprise..no room for our children in secondary schools either.. |
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| Heinrich | Jul 23 2015, 04:55 PM Post #271 |
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Check. Check. Check. Check. He would get my vote if I had one. |
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| somersetli | Jul 23 2015, 05:58 PM Post #272 |
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Apart from choosing a new 'leader' the Labour Party will have the task of finding which way it wants to go. It cannot go back to its origins i.e. the political voice of the trade unions, because that path has been discredited. (remember the winter of discontent followed by 17 years in the wilderness). It has had no luck moving away from its base and becoming New Labour under Tony Blair. So what policies can it put before the UK electorate that Labour has not tried before? Having a new leader is one thing, but where is he/she going to lead them |
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| Tytoalba | Jul 23 2015, 07:43 PM Post #273 |
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He comes from Prestatyn North Wales. He is Welsh born and bred. |
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| Tytoalba | Jul 23 2015, 07:46 PM Post #274 |
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Would he get your money to pay for his ambitions. You and he could always tax the rich until they arte squeezed dry but what about increasing your own taxes ? |
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| C-too | Jul 23 2015, 08:12 PM Post #275 |
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Remember the 5% wage increase agreement made between the TUC and Callaghan ? Before discontented workers took things into their own hands with unofficial and wildcat strikes ? Followed by the insinuated lies that the countries problems were caused by unions and nationalised industries ? Talk about lies repeated often enough !! |
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| C-too | Jul 23 2015, 08:15 PM Post #276 |
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The EU insist upon the free movement of people between member countries. It's up to the government to take a firmer stand on immigration. |
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| Marconi | Jul 23 2015, 09:32 PM Post #277 |
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That's a nice ditty. After a good sing song it's only right to play some Tory Budget Bingo... ''All the 4's.... the Working Poor'' ''Food Bank Heaven... No.7'' Edit by the Site Admin Man: I'm being nice to you because you apologised ... Edited by johnofgwent, Jul 26 2015, 07:56 PM.
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| Steve K | Jul 23 2015, 09:37 PM Post #278 |
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The NHS was not fine in 2004 And far from migrants the problems of the NHS have very much been home grown. From 2004 on what you saw more than anything else is the baby boomers moving into their high maintenance years. And it gets worse every year. We should never have banned smoking |
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| Tytoalba | Jul 23 2015, 09:53 PM Post #279 |
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You forget that in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.
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| Tigger | Jul 23 2015, 10:19 PM Post #280 |
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I was pricing up some work today and the customer very seemed pleased that his house had virtually doubled in value in the last decade, in the next breath he was complaining that his three kids who appeared to be in their mid twenties had not yet left home, it was as if the two situations were completely unrelated! It was only the prospect of several thousand pounds worth of work that prevented me from calling him a selfish prick! |
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