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| Corbyn-economics? | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 7 2015, 07:27 AM (798 Views) | |
| RJD | Sep 7 2015, 07:27 AM Post #1 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Somebody has to kick this off as it looks like it could become official Labour policy. Two things; higher tax rates and The People's QE. The 50P or higher appeals to the Spite and Envy Brigade, but they present no evidence of how such will bring sustainable increases in revenues.
The People's QE
LINK Would those that support the above policies care to attempt to justify them and show how such would be beneficial to the vast majority of UK citizens? |
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| papasmurf | Sep 7 2015, 07:36 AM Post #2 |
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Senior Member
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Yet another link top a newspaper article which as usual means nothing. |
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| skwirked | Sep 7 2015, 08:49 AM Post #3 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Corbyn will be savaged by the RW press, the markets, ratings agencies will make assumptions and give us a downcast, businesses and jigh net worth individuals would get twitchy and might move their money out of the UK. On that basis alone, poor old honest Corbyn stands little chance even if he were leader. Our system needs people like Corbyn from time to time, to calm down the revolting peasants with their pitchforks from stringing Cam and co up by the lampposts. That's Corbyn's function in the system. Few will trust Corbynomics unless he shows he has some real imagination and confidence. Think of Attlee and Wilson.. No? I doubt it too. At least the LP of 1900 is making itself truer to its roots. |
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| Affa | Sep 7 2015, 08:54 AM Post #4 |
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Senior Member
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Hollande has been hampered by private sector business not wanting to support his policies and so have, like the very rich, sifted away the money they make by fair means or foul. For near four years the UK economy was a flatline, and even today UK productivity is below what it was in 2007 - Hollande could argue that the UK example of austerity alone does not reduce the debts or improve living standards. |
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| RJD | Sep 7 2015, 08:55 AM Post #5 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Great contribution that adds up to exactly nothing. |
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| RJD | Sep 7 2015, 09:02 AM Post #6 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Just look at what high rates of taxation in France has done for job creation. but that is off topic. Here Corbyn supports the printing of money to fund infrastructure projects, these costs by definition include salaries and hence current consumption, as directed by Politicians. We know that any economy from time to time requires some stimulus, but at times it requires none. What do Politicians do to win votes? A few points made by others: As ex-BoE economist Tony Yates puts it, less temperately:
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One other comment I noted that rings true is: the left will love The Peoples QE as they think it will print them into becoming rich, as they always attempt to vote themselves such. |
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| papasmurf | Sep 7 2015, 09:33 AM Post #7 |
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But your links are what add exactly nothing, they are opinion in a newspaper by people with the same agenda as you. |
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| RJD | Sep 7 2015, 09:41 AM Post #8 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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So the report was an opinion worth nothing was it? Those like yourself that condemn everything you do not like the sound of out of hand are the ones with absolutely nothing but ignorant emotions on offer. I expect a big fat nothing from your extremely bigoted contributions. I know you read little before spouting as I have, in the past, checked your speed reading ability and your claims to have read such links indicate that you are a Savant with a photographic memory who can read individual pages with individual eyeballs. Mr Smurf you really are full of it. |
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| papasmurf | Sep 7 2015, 09:58 AM Post #9 |
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Senior Member
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You didn't link to a report RJD, you linked to a newspaper article. |
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| Steve K | Sep 7 2015, 10:08 AM Post #10 |
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Once and future cynic
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Corbynomics = Cuba without the Sun It's not just the high tax to drive away job creating talent, it's not just the runaway inflation creating and economy destroying idiocy of one state printing money. He has made huge promises to fund worthy sounding policies with money that not only is not there now, there will be even less once you look at his raft of industry killing ideas that will kill off the money creators that pay for what we do now. But then we should have known it was all bollocks when he had to get Richard Murphy to write his economic policy and then have the sheer dishonesty to claim the same Murphy as independent verification. 'Different' is never 'Better' just by dint of not being the same as now. For the whole picture of Corbynuttery see http://www.jeremyforlabour.com/policy If you care about Britain, if you really care about welfare for the disadvantaged then read and weep Edited by Steve K, Sep 7 2015, 10:20 AM.
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| papasmurf | Sep 7 2015, 10:23 AM Post #11 |
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Senior Member
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I do care about welfare for the disadvantaged , and the Tories callous attitude make me very, very, angry. |
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| papasmurf | Sep 7 2015, 10:24 AM Post #12 |
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Senior Member
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I do care about welfare for the disadvantaged , and the Tories callous attitude make me very, very, angry. As does the Labour leadership complete lack of opposition to it. |
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| Steve K | Sep 7 2015, 10:41 AM Post #13 |
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Once and future cynic
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I'd stick at very angry but yes it is very wrong Well to a great extent they started the problems. I'd say completely inept opposition though. |
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| skwirked | Sep 7 2015, 10:46 AM Post #14 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Yep and there seems little any can do about either of those things |
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| Steve K | Sep 7 2015, 10:58 AM Post #15 |
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Once and future cynic
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Well to return to topic, not voting for Corbyn would help. Corbynomics would ensure even less money in real terms for the disadvantaged and Corbynistas are very likely to let the Torries drift to the further right ad still get elected |
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| Tytoalba | Sep 7 2015, 12:50 PM Post #16 |
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Only another five days to go before the result is declared.{Sigh} Then we will all know and the speculation will end. |
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| ACH1967 | Sep 7 2015, 02:30 PM Post #17 |
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I am still struggling to understand why QE is OK for bailing out the banks but not OK as peoples QE. |
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| RJD | Sep 7 2015, 03:27 PM Post #18 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Who claims it was the right solution for bailing out Banks? By the way they are not the same the similarity stops with the use of the acronym QE. For the ignorant QE = Quantitative Easing. |
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| Affa | Sep 7 2015, 04:22 PM Post #19 |
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As I have indicated before, these criticisms are all basically conjecture, with some for certain biased for political reasons. Scaremongering is a well tried tactic and undoubted past success ....... if the analysis were in the nation's interest and not the Establishment's we could be reassured. |
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| RJD | Sep 7 2015, 04:25 PM Post #20 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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But the sum total of the analysis is that such adventures are not in the nation's interest. |
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| Bruv | Sep 7 2015, 05:02 PM Post #21 |
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Junior Member
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Corbyn Wins Backing From Over 40 Economists
Another less biased opinion |
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| Affa | Sep 7 2015, 05:02 PM Post #22 |
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Senior Member
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thanks |
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| gee4444 | Sep 7 2015, 05:11 PM Post #23 |
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Regular Member
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QE wasn't used to bail out the banks. The tax payers did with subsequent increase in State/Public debt. The QE process and the downfalls of QE are the same regardless of the recipients of the new magicked up currency. Obviously pro Capitalist right wing fantasists who are dependent on stock markets will tell you otherwise to scare you. They ONLY whine when free money is to be used in the way Corbyn suggests. Such an idea really does get under their skin - free money is historically speaking the domain of the pampered minority and using it to improve the lives of the masses disgusts them. |
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| Affa | Sep 7 2015, 06:03 PM Post #24 |
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Senior Member
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As is evidenced by the coalition attempts to restore/increase liquidity to the banks in return for them lending to SMEs ....... three different approaches, and the banks just used the money in ways that were best for them. |
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| Steve K | Sep 7 2015, 06:45 PM Post #25 |
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Once and future cynic
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We did that piece of media misrepresentation ages ago Here is the key line in the letter
So in a country with thousands of economists he couldn't even get 40 to back him |
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| Steve K | Sep 7 2015, 06:56 PM Post #26 |
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Once and future cynic
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Err it was Gordon Brown who did that. Rightly imho as the banks would otherwise have to have reacted to the downturn and hiked reserve requirements by driving businesses into liquidation by calling in the loans. The BofE has some very good notes on QE. Here's one http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetarypolicy/Pages/qe/qe_faqs.aspx# It was a one off £375B while other countries were doing the same so the £ did not collapse. Richard Murphy pretending to be Corbyn thinks we can go it alone and continually print money to sustain increased welfare payments and not even think thatthe £ might collapse, interest of gov bonds go Sky High and the economy tank. He's an arse and Corbyn's a bigger one for signing up to Murphy's plan to destroy the UK |
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| skwirked | Sep 7 2015, 07:06 PM Post #27 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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The markets rule our economy, if you buck the market they won't tolerate it. Yes, they don,t want the govt printing money and giving it to normal people, they want it to go to institutions that are, in their eyes, trustworthy. |
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| Steve K | Sep 7 2015, 07:18 PM Post #28 |
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Once and future cynic
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Nope The market is slave to no one be they rich, poor, individual or corporate. Been to buy a fridge at Comet lately? |
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| Affa | Sep 7 2015, 07:44 PM Post #29 |
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Err I said 'Coalition' and I meant Coalition ... George Osborne Announces Boost for SMEs 2014 Merlin 2011 Funding For Lending 2013 Three failed persuasions ..... each one giving the banks assistance with funding, and no appreciable benefits to SMEs. |
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| skwirked | Sep 7 2015, 07:56 PM Post #30 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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And I never said it was, but credit rating agencies and huge financial institutions do dtermine a lot of what's allowed. If you disagree, why? |
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| Steve K | Sep 7 2015, 08:22 PM Post #31 |
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Once and future cynic
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They report the market, the don't control it.
Funding for Lending scheme was small beer compared to QE http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/markets/Pages/FLS/extensiondata.aspx The data always looks like all the money went to the banks because FLS money goes through the banks. It is often misrepresented that that's where it stayed. If there is one thing you can always rely on SMEs to do in life it is to whine that they aren't getting enough subsidised rides. |
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| Bruv | Sep 7 2015, 08:29 PM Post #32 |
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Junior Member
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They DON'T back Corbyn, just his economic policies............................or did I miss something ? |
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| skwirked | Sep 7 2015, 09:07 PM Post #33 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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They substantially influence it. Groups of people who make enormous decisions. And some live up to their names, moodys.. s&p.. |
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| disgruntled porker | Sep 7 2015, 09:48 PM Post #34 |
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Older than most people think I am.
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I'm so glad you are trying to educate us all by explaining all those obscure abreiviations. It has made things so much easier. |
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| Rich | Sep 7 2015, 09:53 PM Post #35 |
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Senior Member
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Apparently, Mr Corbyn is under the impression that he can pay for all of his projected policies by "ordering" the IR (inland revenue) to sequester ALL unpaid evaded taxes. David Blunketts reply?...........If Jeremy thinks it is that easy then the Labour party would already have done so whilst in office, he is a dreamer. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06bg6ty/panorama-jeremy-corbyn-labours-earthquake It begins at 19 mins and 10 secs in. Edited by Rich, Sep 7 2015, 09:57 PM.
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| Affa | Sep 7 2015, 10:21 PM Post #36 |
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Senior Member
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Read post 24 again .......... which was not a direct reference to QE, but you knew that when posting, or should have. What I further replied with was additional evidence to support what Gee444 had posted, and that does stand as claimed. ......... and the remainder of your above post declaring that the bankers did not take advantage of these measures for their own benefit (as implied when saying) indicates that you are/were aware of what was being expressed (and not a reference to QE). None of the three measures introduced made an appreciable difference to or for SMEs as intended, and that is the verdict of SMEs themself. SME Insider sic Edited by Affa, Sep 7 2015, 10:31 PM.
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| Steve K | Sep 7 2015, 11:39 PM Post #37 |
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Once and future cynic
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Read the letter, they clearly did not back his economic policies. They just said that they had been unfairly criticised BIG difference |
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| Steve K | Sep 8 2015, 09:58 AM Post #38 |
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Once and future cynic
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Well I can see now you meant it that way but post 24 was quoting a point made about QE so I took the obvious inference that you were using SME's as a viewpoint about that. So no I don't see I should have |
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| RJD | Sep 8 2015, 03:54 PM Post #39 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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You know that is not true. The two processes are not the same. The similarity stops with the words QE. Anyway there is no reason that we could not take the creation of debt out of the hands of the Banks and institute full reserve rather than fractional Banking. The following is worthy of your study: TOWARDS A TWENTY-‐FIRST CENTURY BANKING AND MONETARY SYSTEM SUBMISSION TO THE INDEPENDENT COMMISSION ON BANKING by Ben Dyson, Tony Greenham, Josh Ryan-‐Collins and Richard A. Werner Joint submission by the Centre for Banking, Finance and Sustainable Development University of Southampton, School of Management |
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| RJD | Sep 8 2015, 03:55 PM Post #40 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Oh dear "SME" what's that? |
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