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In a quandry as to where to post this; Migration
Topic Started: Sep 9 2015, 09:41 AM (626 Views)
Tytoalba
Senior Member
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I don't know where to post this ,but I think it matters.
A German Woman said on the BBC today that the majority of migrants coming to Germany are young men , , their journey paid for by family members, The intent is that the young men get settled and find work ,and then to pay for the rest of their family to follow in their footsteps. The 80.000 or more that Germany accepts will turn out to be 400,000 or more when their siblings, parents and Grandparents decide to follow and join them, and once in the EU they can travel to where they wish. The same scenario will be played out across the whole of Europe. with a continuous flow stoking up the fires.
This really is a demographic and cultural change that is going to cause huge problems for us all in the future.
The EU is a failure, and the problems set to get lot worse.
God protect us from the idealistic well intended, for they neverr seem able to see into the future consequences of their actions.
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Heinrich
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Tytoalba
Sep 9 2015, 09:41 AM
... God protect us from the idealistic well intended, for they neverr seem able to see into the future consequences of their actions.
Who knew how Europe would be destroyed in the last century by xenophobic racism. The European Union will fail if we do not scrutinize the nationalistic xenophobia in former Communist countries and England who have been allowed into the Union. The contagion needs to be confronted and eliminated. There is a chance that England will leave next year but Hungary is a particular worry now.
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Heinrich
Sep 9 2015, 09:48 AM
Tytoalba
Sep 9 2015, 09:41 AM
... God protect us from the idealistic well intended, for they neverr seem able to see into the future consequences of their actions.
Who knew how Europe would be destroyed in the last century by xenophobic racism. The European Union will fail if we do not scrutinize the nationalistic xenophobia in former Communist countries and England who have been allowed into the Union. The contagion needs to be confronted and eliminated. There is a chance that England will leave next year but Hungary is a particular worry now.
Your hobby horse has absolutely fuck all to do with the fact that young men are indeed choosing to immigrate to this country, obtain the right to stay here, and import their entire family. There was a time when the BBC felt free to report the minutes of Slough council, the nearest local authority to heathrow airport, and the misgivings of the councillors at the demands of those newly received that the council make preparations to house their entire family when they are allowed to apply for a british passport in a few years time. There was a time when the BBC felt free to report these facts, as they appear in the minutes of the council meetings, but these days, any attempt to do so gets shot down by your hatred of the british and the british desire to enjoy the country as it is, rather than see it invaded
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RJD
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Heinrich
Sep 9 2015, 09:48 AM
Tytoalba
Sep 9 2015, 09:41 AM
... God protect us from the idealistic well intended, for they neverr seem able to see into the future consequences of their actions.
Who knew how Europe would be destroyed in the last century by xenophobic racism. The European Union will fail if we do not scrutinize the nationalistic xenophobia in former Communist countries and England who have been allowed into the Union. The contagion needs to be confronted and eliminated. There is a chance that England will leave next year but Hungary is a particular worry now.
My goodness you do talk a load of unsubstantiated tripe. The UK is and has been more welcoming to displaced people over the centuries and Xenophobia is more a term one can associate with those that have come very late to democratic Government. Violence again immigrants is currently predominantly a German phenomena.

When did Germany become democratic? Was it 1949 and the DDR after 1990. What about Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece and the erstwhile Ost Bloc.

If England leaves then it will take Scotland and Wales plus NI with it, then how long before Scandinavia follows suit. As for the EZ well that is built on a pack of cards.

The problem is fundamentally that the EU is not designed to solve such problems as the Euro or the current Migration crisis. It has only one hammer and one nail and that is that the only solution is greater centralisation of power. The EU cannot solve the Migration problem, it only looks to coordinate decisions made by individual nation States.

By the way the joke is that all the migrants that the EU wishes to settle are already within it's borders. They are already safe.

Heinrich your antipathy against the English fogs your thought processes such as they are.


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Mr Pat
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Not only that but Europe has the added Brucie Bonus of issues like this:

Posted Image



:facepalm:
Edited by Mr Pat, Sep 9 2015, 10:21 AM.
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skwirked
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^I read somewhere tgat the first image is fake. It was in the indy I believe
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marybrown
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I've heard that IS are really pissed off in Syria..because there is no Nutella..or Mars bars..

The answer is simple..cut off their chocolate supplies!!
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C-too
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marybrown
Sep 9 2015, 12:41 PM
I've heard that IS are really pissed off in Syria..because there is no Nutella..or Mars bars..

The answer is simple..cut off their chocolate supplies!!
;D !jk!
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Alberich
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Perhaps we are really witnessing the gradual Islamification of Europe, which we are now actively encouraging. This current immigration tsunami is like no other in history. Previous immigration waves have been just that...waves of limited duration. From the Hugenots, from the Jews fleeing Germany, from the Ugandan Asians; these inflows had one thing in common. They were of limited duration, and of manageable numbers. But the present problem is open ended, ongoing and apparently without limit of numbers. No nation...not even the EU, can continue to offer sanctuary to all and sundry, from wherever, and for whatever reason. And yet there is no plan, no forward thinking, no real will to stop the flow.

Where is Prester John when he is needed?
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marybrown
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Alberich
Sep 9 2015, 02:28 PM
Perhaps we are really witnessing the gradual Islamification of Europe, which we are now actively encouraging. This current immigration tsunami is like no other in history. Previous immigration waves have been just that...waves of limited duration. From the Hugenots, from the Jews fleeing Germany, from the Ugandan Asians; these inflows had one thing in common. They were of limited duration, and of manageable numbers. But the present problem is open ended, ongoing and apparently without limit of numbers. No nation...not even the EU, can continue to offer sanctuary to all and sundry, from wherever, and for whatever reason. And yet there is no plan, no forward thinking, no real will to stop the flow.

Where is Prester John when he is needed?
Are you actively encouraging it?..am I actively encouraging it??

The word must be ''NO''

And at some point..we will have to make a stance..
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Stephen
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johnofgwent
Sep 9 2015, 10:06 AM
Your hobby horse has absolutely fuck all to do with the fact that young men are indeed choosing to immigrate to this country, obtain the right to stay here, and import their entire family. There was a time when the BBC felt free to report the minutes of Slough council, the nearest local authority to heathrow airport, and the misgivings of the councillors at the demands of those newly received that the council make preparations to house their entire family when they are allowed to apply for a british passport in a few years time
On what basis do these "young men" enter the country? As refugees? Under the authority of work permits? If they are not EU citizens then the British government has complete control over whether to accept them or not. I have read many documented cases of how difficult it is for British citizens to bring in relatives so I take the "misgivings" of these councillors with half a cwt of salt.
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marybrown
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Stephen
Sep 9 2015, 03:05 PM
johnofgwent
Sep 9 2015, 10:06 AM
Your hobby horse has absolutely fuck all to do with the fact that young men are indeed choosing to immigrate to this country, obtain the right to stay here, and import their entire family. There was a time when the BBC felt free to report the minutes of Slough council, the nearest local authority to heathrow airport, and the misgivings of the councillors at the demands of those newly received that the council make preparations to house their entire family when they are allowed to apply for a british passport in a few years time
On what basis do these "young men" enter the country? As refugees? Under the authority of work permits? If they are not EU citizens then the British government has complete control over whether to accept them or not. I have read many documented cases of how difficult it is for British citizens to bring in relatives so I take the "misgivings" of these councillors with half a cwt of salt.
Of course..these young men come into Britain..the next thing we know..their wives and children are allowed here as well..Grandparents. Parents.Aunties..uncles.nephews..cousins twice removed..
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Stephen
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marybrown
Sep 9 2015, 03:08 PM
Of course..these young men come into Britain..the next thing we know..their wives and children are allowed here as well..Grandparents. Parents.Aunties..uncles.nephews..cousins twice removed..
Then how do you explain the extreme difficulties experienced by many Britons and their foreign spouses?

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/kirsten-han/britains-new-visa-laws-are-breaking-families-and-hearts

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RJD
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Alberich
Sep 9 2015, 02:28 PM
Perhaps we are really witnessing the gradual Islamification of Europe, which we are now actively encouraging. This current immigration tsunami is like no other in history. Previous immigration waves have been just that...waves of limited duration. From the Hugenots, from the Jews fleeing Germany, from the Ugandan Asians; these inflows had one thing in common. They were of limited duration, and of manageable numbers. But the present problem is open ended, ongoing and apparently without limit of numbers. No nation...not even the EU, can continue to offer sanctuary to all and sundry, from wherever, and for whatever reason. And yet there is no plan, no forward thinking, no real will to stop the flow.

Where is Prester John when he is needed?
They looked for Prester John for a very long time and eventually accepted he was a figment of imagination. But Richard the Lionheart did exist.
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RJD
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Stephen
Sep 9 2015, 03:19 PM
marybrown
Sep 9 2015, 03:08 PM
Of course..these young men come into Britain..the next thing we know..their wives and children are allowed here as well..Grandparents. Parents.Aunties..uncles.nephews..cousins twice removed..
Then how do you explain the extreme difficulties experienced by many Britons and their foreign spouses?

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/kirsten-han/britains-new-visa-laws-are-breaking-families-and-hearts

HMS Pinafore

And so do his sisters, and his cousins, and his aunts!
His sisters and his cousins,
Whom he reckons up by dozens,
And his aunts!
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marybrown
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Stephen
Sep 9 2015, 03:19 PM
marybrown
Sep 9 2015, 03:08 PM
Of course..these young men come into Britain..the next thing we know..their wives and children are allowed here as well..Grandparents. Parents.Aunties..uncles.nephews..cousins twice removed..
Then how do you explain the extreme difficulties experienced by many Britons and their foreign spouses?

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/kirsten-han/britains-new-visa-laws-are-breaking-families-and-hearts

I am glad they are experiencing difficulties..

It is a Scam..

About time we woke up..
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marybrown
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RJD
Sep 9 2015, 03:25 PM
Stephen
Sep 9 2015, 03:19 PM
marybrown
Sep 9 2015, 03:08 PM
Of course..these young men come into Britain..the next thing we know..their wives and children are allowed here as well..Grandparents. Parents.Aunties..uncles.nephews..cousins twice removed..
Then how do you explain the extreme difficulties experienced by many Britons and their foreign spouses?

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/kirsten-han/britains-new-visa-laws-are-breaking-families-and-hearts

HMS Pinafore

And so do his sisters, and his cousins, and his aunts!
His sisters and his cousins,
Whom he reckons up by dozens,
And his aunts!
Lol..I love Gilbert and Sullivan..thank you..
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Stephen
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marybrown
Sep 9 2015, 03:26 PM
What a deeply unpleasant little person you are. Yes, I am sure you are happy that they are experiencing difficulties. The point that you seem intellectually ill-equipped to deal with is that such cases prove that you claims about he ease of bringing families into the UK are made up tabloid cock-waffle. I note also that you have no evidence whatsoever that the canadian wife was engaging in a "scam".
Edited by Stephen, Sep 9 2015, 03:34 PM.
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skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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Alberich
Sep 9 2015, 02:28 PM
Perhaps we are really witnessing the gradual Islamification of Europe, which we are now actively encouraging. This current immigration tsunami is like no other in history. Previous immigration waves have been just that...waves of limited duration. From the Hugenots, from the Jews fleeing Germany, from the Ugandan Asians; these inflows had one thing in common. They were of limited duration, and of manageable numbers. But the present problem is open ended, ongoing and apparently without limit of numbers. No nation...not even the EU, can continue to offer sanctuary to all and sundry, from wherever, and for whatever reason. And yet there is no plan, no forward thinking, no real will to stop the flow.

Where is Prester John when he is needed?
They said that of all the other groups you mentioned, at the time. :)
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marybrown
Senior Member
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Stephen
Sep 9 2015, 03:34 PM
marybrown
Sep 9 2015, 03:26 PM
What a deeply unpleasant little person you are. Yes, I am sure you are happy that they are experiencing difficulties. The point that you seem intellectually ill-equipped to deal with is that such cases prove that you claims about he ease of bringing families into the UK are made up tabloid cock-waffle. I note also that you have no evidence whatsoever that the canadian wife was engaging in a "scam".
Listen Stephen..I really do not have time to reply to W***ers..

I do put up evidence..usually..because people do accuse you of being a liar..

But in your case..I will put it down to a lack of education..
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Rich
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RJD
Sep 9 2015, 10:14 AM
Heinrich
Sep 9 2015, 09:48 AM
Tytoalba
Sep 9 2015, 09:41 AM
... God protect us from the idealistic well intended, for they neverr seem able to see into the future consequences of their actions.
Who knew how Europe would be destroyed in the last century by xenophobic racism. The European Union will fail if we do not scrutinize the nationalistic xenophobia in former Communist countries and England who have been allowed into the Union. The contagion needs to be confronted and eliminated. There is a chance that England will leave next year but Hungary is a particular worry now.
My goodness you do talk a load of unsubstantiated tripe. The UK is and has been more welcoming to displaced people over the centuries and Xenophobia is more a term one can associate with those that have come very late to democratic Government. Violence again immigrants is currently predominantly a German phenomena.

When did Germany become democratic? Was it 1949 and the DDR after 1990. What about Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece and the erstwhile Ost Bloc.

If England leaves then it will take Scotland and Wales plus NI with it, then how long before Scandinavia follows suit. As for the EZ well that is built on a pack of cards.

The problem is fundamentally that the EU is not designed to solve such problems as the Euro or the current Migration crisis. It has only one hammer and one nail and that is that the only solution is greater centralisation of power. The EU cannot solve the Migration problem, it only looks to coordinate decisions made by individual nation States.

By the way the joke is that all the migrants that the EU wishes to settle are already within it's borders. They are already safe.

Heinrich your antipathy against the English fogs your thought processes such as they are.


It is only shite if you listen to it, you make matters worse by replying to the troll.
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Rich
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skwirked
Sep 9 2015, 03:36 PM
Alberich
Sep 9 2015, 02:28 PM
Perhaps we are really witnessing the gradual Islamification of Europe, which we are now actively encouraging. This current immigration tsunami is like no other in history. Previous immigration waves have been just that...waves of limited duration. From the Hugenots, from the Jews fleeing Germany, from the Ugandan Asians; these inflows had one thing in common. They were of limited duration, and of manageable numbers. But the present problem is open ended, ongoing and apparently without limit of numbers. No nation...not even the EU, can continue to offer sanctuary to all and sundry, from wherever, and for whatever reason. And yet there is no plan, no forward thinking, no real will to stop the flow.

Where is Prester John when he is needed?
They said that of all the other groups you mentioned, at the time. :)
It seems to me that the much wished for "caliphate" is going to be a whole lot larger than first envisaged, the European elite have a lot to answer for as they are literally helping to build and enshrine Islamism in Europe and all that I.S. have to do is keep on terrorising Islamic states causint the nationals to flee to the west and eventually create Islam only areas that can only get larger due to birth rates.
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skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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It's hardly islamic migrants' fault that indig . rates are so low.

As for the caliphate blurb, most Muslims are moderate and there's no evidence to the contrary, apart from 'observations'.
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Malum Unus
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skwirked
Sep 9 2015, 08:19 PM

As for the caliphate blurb, most Muslims are moderate and there's no evidence to the contrary, apart from 'observations'.


Trouble is, the fanatical Muslims often end up in positions of power over the 'moderates'.

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skwirked
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There are very few fanatical leaders in this country and most other w. euro countries.
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Malum Unus
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skwirked
Sep 9 2015, 08:27 PM
There are very few fanatical leaders in this country and most other w. euro countries.


That we know of, sure we know about the loudmouths, they aren't the ones we have to watch out for.

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skwirked
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Same for non-moderate Muslims, the majority are still moderate though, just as they are in most majority-Islamic countries where hate preachers are allowed far more freedom.


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Heinrich
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Stephen
Sep 9 2015, 03:34 PM
What a deeply unpleasant little person you are. Yes, I am sure you are happy that they are experiencing difficulties. The point that you seem intellectually ill-equipped to deal with is that such cases prove that you claims about he ease of bringing families into the UK are made up tabloid cock-waffle. I note also that you have no evidence whatsoever that the canadian wife was engaging in a "scam".
Stephen, you have only yourself to blame. Choose more judiciously with whom to debate.
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RJD
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Heinrich
Sep 9 2015, 10:36 PM
Stephen
Sep 9 2015, 03:34 PM
What a deeply unpleasant little person you are. Yes, I am sure you are happy that they are experiencing difficulties. The point that you seem intellectually ill-equipped to deal with is that such cases prove that you claims about he ease of bringing families into the UK are made up tabloid cock-waffle. I note also that you have no evidence whatsoever that the canadian wife was engaging in a "scam".
Stephen, you have only yourself to blame. Choose more judiciously with whom to debate.
Really? Surely it is the subject matter and the veracity of the evidence said to support claims that is of interest. This is why you in particular are now under the microscope.
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Tytoalba
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Stephen
Sep 9 2015, 03:05 PM
johnofgwent
Sep 9 2015, 10:06 AM
Your hobby horse has absolutely fuck all to do with the fact that young men are indeed choosing to immigrate to this country, obtain the right to stay here, and import their entire family. There was a time when the BBC felt free to report the minutes of Slough council, the nearest local authority to heathrow airport, and the misgivings of the councillors at the demands of those newly received that the council make preparations to house their entire family when they are allowed to apply for a british passport in a few years time
On what basis do these "young men" enter the country? As refugees? Under the authority of work permits? If they are not EU citizens then the British government has complete control over whether to accept them or not. I have read many documented cases of how difficult it is for British citizens to bring in relatives so I take the "misgivings" of these councillors with half a cwt of salt.
When they are accepted by Germany, and Austria and France, or any other EU country foolish enough to welcome them and given citizenship of the EU, we cannot stop them entering the UK. We have open borders with Europe. Until we close our borders and operate a system like Australia, then we are stuffed. UKIP has it right on this issue. I forsee cultural and religious changes leading to division, extremism and conflict
The assumption that all will be well and peaceful integration guaranteed if only we are nice to each goes against human nature. Already we are at war with ISIS on a religious basis, and we seem to have a growing number of enemies within, and there seems no stopping the immigrants from Africa.
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Tytoalba
Senior Member
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Rich
Sep 9 2015, 07:13 PM
skwirked
Sep 9 2015, 03:36 PM
Alberich
Sep 9 2015, 02:28 PM
Perhaps we are really witnessing the gradual Islamification of Europe, which we are now actively encouraging. This current immigration tsunami is like no other in history. Previous immigration waves have been just that...waves of limited duration. From the Hugenots, from the Jews fleeing Germany, from the Ugandan Asians; these inflows had one thing in common. They were of limited duration, and of manageable numbers. But the present problem is open ended, ongoing and apparently without limit of numbers. No nation...not even the EU, can continue to offer sanctuary to all and sundry, from wherever, and for whatever reason. And yet there is no plan, no forward thinking, no real will to stop the flow.

Where is Prester John when he is needed?
They said that of all the other groups you mentioned, at the time. :)
It seems to me that the much wished for "caliphate" is going to be a whole lot larger than first envisaged, the European elite have a lot to answer for as they are literally helping to build and enshrine Islamism in Europe and all that I.S. have to do is keep on terrorising Islamic states causint the nationals to flee to the west and eventually create Islam only areas that can only get larger due to birth rates.
Its been happening and is still happening, to the point tha more than one of our major cities will be predominantly Muslim, electing their own representatives, and putting their own MPs into parliament.
They will draw more Muslims into their sphere of influence and when sufficiently strong enough will draft their own laws, and try to impose their will on the rest of us.
If it can be done it will be done. IMO
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Pro Veritas
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Stephen
Sep 9 2015, 03:34 PM
marybrown
Sep 9 2015, 03:26 PM
What a deeply unpleasant little person you are. Yes, I am sure you are happy that they are experiencing difficulties. The point that you seem intellectually ill-equipped to deal with is that such cases prove that you claims about he ease of bringing families into the UK are made up tabloid cock-waffle. I note also that you have no evidence whatsoever that the canadian wife was engaging in a "scam".
Having briefly skimmed the OD article that Mary linked to I'd like to point out a clear case of where people who advocate less immigration controls, more open borders, etc. are manifestly incapable of intelligent, joined-up thinking.

To wit:
Quote:
 
The changes that came into force on 9 July 2012 stipulate that the British spouse has to earn an annual income of £18,600 (and show that he/she has been earning that amount for at least six months) in order to sponsor his/her non-EEA spouse for a visa. The foreign spouse’s income is not taken into account. The financial threshold increases if they have children also in need of sponsorship.

In a time of unpaid internships and zero-hour contracts, 47% of people in employment in the UK are unable to meet this financial requirement. Even the assistant immigration officers who work within this system are unable to meet the requirement; the only make about £15,386 to £17,377 a year.


The meteoric rise of unpaid internships, zero-hour contracts, ever downward pressures on wages, and ever upward pressures on living costs are a direct result of letting too many people into the country too easily, and the author of the article in question is clearly either too blinded by PC ideology, or too moronic to figure that out for themselves.

So, with some reservation, I am in agreement with mary - I am glad they are having trouble getting into the country, I only hope it is made MUCH harder for them to do so in the future.

All The Best
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disgruntled porker
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A couple of minor points here worth looking at.

The conflict in Syria has been ongoing for about 5 years. Why the sudden desire of so many to get out at this moment in time rather than any other?

We have made promises about how many we are willing to take over the next 5 years. So we are expecting the conflict to carry on for a further 5 years, if not more? Are we all to sit back and allow this, or would it not be better to use our resources to end the conflict. We see interviews on TV with refugees who say they are only too eager to go back home after the conflict. So as soon as it's over, they are all going to up sticks, trek back across Europe and doggy paddle back across the Med to get back home? Of course they are! !clp! :shitstorm:
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C-too
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Pro Veritas
Sep 10 2015, 09:40 AM
Stephen
Sep 9 2015, 03:34 PM
marybrown
Sep 9 2015, 03:26 PM
What a deeply unpleasant little person you are. Yes, I am sure you are happy that they are experiencing difficulties. The point that you seem intellectually ill-equipped to deal with is that such cases prove that you claims about he ease of bringing families into the UK are made up tabloid cock-waffle. I note also that you have no evidence whatsoever that the canadian wife was engaging in a "scam".
Having briefly skimmed the OD article that Mary linked to I'd like to point out a clear case of where people who advocate less immigration controls, more open borders, etc. are manifestly incapable of intelligent, joined-up thinking.

To wit:
Quote:
 
The changes that came into force on 9 July 2012 stipulate that the British spouse has to earn an annual income of £18,600 (and show that he/she has been earning that amount for at least six months) in order to sponsor his/her non-EEA spouse for a visa. The foreign spouse’s income is not taken into account. The financial threshold increases if they have children also in need of sponsorship.

In a time of unpaid internships and zero-hour contracts, 47% of people in employment in the UK are unable to meet this financial requirement. Even the assistant immigration officers who work within this system are unable to meet the requirement; the only make about £15,386 to £17,377 a year.


The meteoric rise of unpaid internships, zero-hour contracts, ever downward pressures on wages, and ever upward pressures on living costs are a direct result of letting too many people into the country too easily, and the author of the article in question is clearly either too blinded by PC ideology, or too moronic to figure that out for themselves.

So, with some reservation, I am in agreement with mary - I am glad they are having trouble getting into the country, I only hope it is made MUCH harder for them to do so in the future.

All The Best
I think you are blinded by your own personal interpretations.

The biggest single cause of UK and much of the world being in the economic mire is the international financial meltdown.

Isis is mainly formed by the Sunnis who's needs and inclusion were ignored by the elected Shia government of Iraq.

I once saw a list of countries with information showing that the larger the Muslim citizenship increased in a country, so too did their demands for change grow. Once their population exceeded 30% of the population their demands began being backed up with threats and actions.
So I too have concerns about immigration, and in particular the immigration of Muslims.
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Heinrich
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RJD
Sep 10 2015, 07:12 AM
Heinrich
Sep 9 2015, 10:36 PM
Stephen
Sep 9 2015, 03:34 PM
What a deeply unpleasant little person you are. Yes, I am sure you are happy that they are experiencing difficulties. The point that you seem intellectually ill-equipped to deal with is that such cases prove that you claims about he ease of bringing families into the UK are made up tabloid cock-waffle. I note also that you have no evidence whatsoever that the canadian wife was engaging in a "scam".
Stephen, you have only yourself to blame. Choose more judiciously with whom to debate.
Really? Surely it is the subject matter and the veracity of the evidence said to support claims that is of interest. This is why you in particular are now under the microscope.
What "microscope" is that, RJD? Are you under it too?
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Heinrich
Sep 10 2015, 02:06 PM
RJD
Sep 10 2015, 07:12 AM
Heinrich
Sep 9 2015, 10:36 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Really? Surely it is the subject matter and the veracity of the evidence said to support claims that is of interest. This is why you in particular are now under the microscope.
What "microscope" is that, RJD? Are you under it too?
Not here but elsewhere.
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Heinrich
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Regular Guy
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RJD
Sep 11 2015, 11:18 AM
Heinrich
Sep 10 2015, 02:06 PM
RJD
Sep 10 2015, 07:12 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
What "microscope" is that, RJD? Are you under it too?
Not here but elsewhere.
Meaning?
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Pro Veritas
Upstanding Member
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C-too
Sep 10 2015, 01:22 PM
I think you are blinded by your own personal interpretations.

The biggest single cause of UK and much of the world being in the economic mire is the international financial meltdown.
Partially correct.

The general economic mire was, in very large part, caused by the international financial meltdown; a meltdown that didn't just happen out of the blue - but was a direct result neo-liberal economic thinking. Part of which includes the the very economic policies espoused by New Labour and continued, and increased under the Coalition and Conservative governments.

However, the particular position that the UK finds itself in struggling more than most to deal with the fallout of that meltdown is a direct result of New Labour policies that promoted the de-skilling of the economy by an over abundance of un/semi skilled labour - a significant proportion of which is migrant labour. The massive rise in immigration under Labour was not sustainable even if Brown had told the truth about ending boom and bust. Such a rapid increase made it impossible for housing and infrastructure to keep up with demand, leading to the very issues I outlined and which you claim are nothing to do with immigration.

Well, they are, and no amount of half-truths, deception or bullshit from you is going to change that.

Immigration has had a major impact on the UK's ability to ride out the effects of the meltdown.

And adding more people to an economy that is already over-manned, under-paid, faces ever rising living costs, a housing shortage, a health service at close to crisis point, and which is (if latest figures are to be believed) heading back toward recession will ONLY MAKE MATTERS WORSE.

Explain to me how making things worse is part of the long-term solution.

Look, if this country was undergoing sustained and sustainable economic growth, based on the production of real products that we were exporting across the globe, and we weren't heading toward yet another housing bubble burst, and living cost increases were not outstripping wage increases, and (and this should really read AND) we had genuine skill shortages that could not be filled by the small number of unemployed we had then I would welcome immigrants with open arms.

The country would a) need them, b) benefit from them, c) be able to afford them.

But we don't live in that country.

You claim I am blinded by my "own personal interpretations" (whatever the fuck that means).

I'm blinded by reality:
Unemployment: too high.
Under employment: too high.
Living costs: too high.
Wages: depreciating.
Housing costs: too high.
Public services: stretched to breaking point.

Look at the reality of things: that is not an economy that needs more immigrants; and anyone who thinks it is, is delusional.

And you? You are blinded by your sycophantic adoration of Tony Blair and New Labour.

All The Best
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gus
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Junior Member
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Tytoalba
Sep 9 2015, 09:41 AM
I don't know where to post this ,but I think it matters.
A German Woman said on the BBC today that the majority of migrants coming to Germany are young men , , their journey paid for by family members, The intent is that the young men get settled and find work ,and then to pay for the rest of their family to follow in their footsteps. The 80.000 or more that Germany accepts will turn out to be 400,000 or more when their siblings, parents and Grandparents decide to follow and join them, and once in the EU they can travel to where they wish. The same scenario will be played out across the whole of Europe. with a continuous flow stoking up the fires.
This really is a demographic and cultural change that is going to cause huge problems for us all in the future.
The EU is a failure, and the problems set to get lot worse.
God protect us from the idealistic well intended, for they neverr seem able to see into the future consequences of their actions.
800,00 is what Germany is going to accept..
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skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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Pro Veritas
Sep 11 2015, 05:36 PM
C-too
Sep 10 2015, 01:22 PM
I think you are blinded by your own personal interpretations.

The biggest single cause of UK and much of the world being in the economic mire is the international financial meltdown.
Partially correct.

The general economic mire was, in very large part, caused by the international financial meltdown; a meltdown that didn't just happen out of the blue - but was a direct result neo-liberal economic thinking. Part of which includes the the very economic policies espoused by New Labour and continued, and increased under the Coalition and Conservative governments.

However, the particular position that the UK finds itself in struggling more than most to deal with the fallout of that meltdown is a direct result of New Labour policies that promoted the de-skilling of the economy by an over abundance of un/semi skilled labour - a significant proportion of which is migrant labour. The massive rise in immigration under Labour was not sustainable even if Brown had told the truth about ending boom and bust. Such a rapid increase made it impossible for housing and infrastructure to keep up with demand, leading to the very issues I outlined and which you claim are nothing to do with immigration.

Well, they are, and no amount of half-truths, deception or bullshit from you is going to change that.

Immigration has had a major impact on the UK's ability to ride out the effects of the meltdown.

And adding more people to an economy that is already over-manned, under-paid, faces ever rising living costs, a housing shortage, a health service at close to crisis point, and which is (if latest figures are to be believed) heading back toward recession will ONLY MAKE MATTERS WORSE.

Explain to me how making things worse is part of the long-term solution.

Look, if this country was undergoing sustained and sustainable economic growth, based on the production of real products that we were exporting across the globe, and we weren't heading toward yet another housing bubble burst, and living cost increases were not outstripping wage increases, and (and this should really read AND) we had genuine skill shortages that could not be filled by the small number of unemployed we had then I would welcome immigrants with open arms.

The country would a) need them, b) benefit from them, c) be able to afford them.

But we don't live in that country.

You claim I am blinded by my "own personal interpretations" (whatever the fuck that means).

I'm blinded by reality:
Unemployment: too high.
Under employment: too high.
Living costs: too high.
Wages: depreciating.
Housing costs: too high.
Public services: stretched to breaking point.

Look at the reality of things: that is not an economy that needs more immigrants; and anyone who thinks it is, is delusional.

And you? You are blinded by your sycophantic adoration of Tony Blair and New Labour.

All The Best
Hard to argue against most of that PV.

We aren't taking in many refugees and a lot of our legal migrants are students.

All I'd say is that our foreign policy has been shocking. True, migrants shouldn't be pitted against indig. Brits but IMO, there are many migrants who are just as deserving of a better standard of living as anyone else.

The cause of the migration crisis and subsequent resentment stems from:

- Corrupt interventionist foreign policy
- Unscrupulous exploitative elements including MP's themselves underpaying unregistered migrants (and reg'd ones)
- A corrupt set of self serving governments not addressing the main problems in our economy and infrastructure

I would say addressing any one of those things would help ANY resentful indigenous Brit, far more than changing immigration policy.

It's true that NO country can take in an unlimited amount of people, but I feel if we address the problems in other countries without an aggressive foreign policy, people won't want to flee.

The small amount who inevitably still would, would pose no problem to the EU member states.
Edited by skwirked, Sep 11 2015, 06:11 PM.
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