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" those who work hard will be rewarded "
Topic Started: Sep 11 2015, 02:29 PM (259 Views)
gus
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Yep that is what camerloon said " those who work hard will be rewarded " well i was rewarded with a £1800.00 fine, I work for a factory that i pay my tax through PAYE, In the meantime i started a new business, approx three years ago, in which i informed the tax office that the nature of the business i will need to build a stock of items before being in profit, so on the self assesment form i asked how do i put in a loss, No one from the tax office could direct me into doing this, with written letters and there abysmal call center, average wait 35 - 45 minutes i had no joy at all, then i recieved a late payment bill of £1800.00 ...

So working four nights at a factory and working four days building up a stock, sometimes with one day off in three months, i find that camerloons words are just a frigging con joke.

Got in touch with local MP to see what he can do, yep , he said he is on the case, hope so as i see that he owes money in false expenses claims, yet they are not being fined for late repayment.

Honesty in declaring my new business does not pay and those who work hard are penalised.

More hollow words from those who come out with slogans that mean nothing......
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RJD
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gus
Sep 11 2015, 02:29 PM
Yep that is what camerloon said " those who work hard will be rewarded " well i was rewarded with a £1800.00 fine, I work for a factory that i pay my tax through PAYE, In the meantime i started a new business, approx three years ago, in which i informed the tax office that the nature of the business i will need to build a stock of items before being in profit, so on the self assesment form i asked how do i put in a loss, No one from the tax office could direct me into doing this, with written letters and there abysmal call center, average wait 35 - 45 minutes i had no joy at all, then i recieved a late payment bill of £1800.00 ...

So working four nights at a factory and working four days building up a stock, sometimes with one day off in three months, i find that camerloons words are just a frigging con joke.

Got in touch with local MP to see what he can do, yep , he said he is on the case, hope so as i see that he owes money in false expenses claims, yet they are not being fined for late repayment.

Honesty in declaring my new business does not pay and those who work hard are penalised.

More hollow words from those who come out with slogans that mean nothing......
I really do advise you to talk to an Accountant. HMRC are revenue collectors, nothing to do with how best to start up a business. I doubt that your MP or even David Cameron could offer better advice. Is BusinessLink still in operation?

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gus
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I will try anything to recover stolen money, i do now have an accountant even though running my other business for 18 years i did my own books, will see how the accountant and mp get on before i can ask you guys on what is best for the next step........... thanks for your help....
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Steve K
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gus
Sep 11 2015, 04:44 PM
I will try anything to recover stolen money, i do now have an accountant even though running my other business for 18 years i did my own books, will see how the accountant and mp get on before i can ask you guys on what is best for the next step........... thanks for your help....
It wasn't stolen was it. The tax rules are there and if you're late you get a penalty.

And what RJD said. You need an accountant especially if you are looking to bank losses. IIRC what you appear to be seeking to do (vest a wholly owned business loss against personal tax) is not allowable.
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gus
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Steve K
Sep 11 2015, 06:35 PM
gus
Sep 11 2015, 04:44 PM
I will try anything to recover stolen money, i do now have an accountant even though running my other business for 18 years i did my own books, will see how the accountant and mp get on before i can ask you guys on what is best for the next step........... thanks for your help....
It wasn't stolen was it. The tax rules are there and if you're late you get a penalty.

And what RJD said. You need an accountant especially if you are looking to bank losses. IIRC what you appear to be seeking to do (vest a wholly owned business loss against personal tax) is not allowable.
It was stolen, if the tax office refuse to givei nformation on how a tax form is filled in , then it is stolen...
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Steve K
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gus
Sep 11 2015, 09:09 PM
Steve K
Sep 11 2015, 06:35 PM
gus
Sep 11 2015, 04:44 PM
I will try anything to recover stolen money, i do now have an accountant even though running my other business for 18 years i did my own books, will see how the accountant and mp get on before i can ask you guys on what is best for the next step........... thanks for your help....
It wasn't stolen was it. The tax rules are there and if you're late you get a penalty.

And what RJD said. You need an accountant especially if you are looking to bank losses. IIRC what you appear to be seeking to do (vest a wholly owned business loss against personal tax) is not allowable.
It was stolen, if the tax office refuse to givei nformation on how a tax form is filled in , then it is stolen...
Well you see it that way and I suggest most of the rest of us tax payers see it different

FWIW I have had my run ins with the tax people. My view of stolen is when they charged me interest on a supposed late payment the subsequent independent review agreed they hadn't actually asked for (due to their very poor English). They refused to refund the interest but in the end I in effect got the money back, just took a while and use of loopholes*

I have to say though that in recent years i have found them very informative both on their web site and phone.


* you could for example try this one: The taxman sees travel from home to your normal place of work as private mileage. However if you divert off that to stop and pick up or drop off something then both journeys home to drop off and drop off to work count as work. So when such increased my 75 mile commute by a mile I claimed 1 mile as expenses and 75 miles as my contribution to work costs that the tax man had to exclude from my taxable income. All perfectly legal and it didn't take too many of those and a few other wheezes before I got my money back. If they ever come back to me and say that's immoral I would say "well you started it, now we're evens"
Edited by Steve K, Sep 11 2015, 10:07 PM.
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skwirked
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Quote:
 
* you could for example try this one: The taxman sees travel from home to your normal place of work as private mileage. However if you divert off that to stop and pick up or drop off something then both journeys home to drop off and drop off to work count as work. So when such increased my 75 mile commute by a mile I claimed 1 mile as expenses and 75 miles as my contribution to work costs that the tax man had to exclude from my taxable income. All perfectly legal and it didn't take too many of those and a few other wheezes before I got my money back. If they ever come back to me and say that's immoral I would say "well you started it, now we're evens"


Not having a go at you personally or even suggesting anything trumps capitalism as we know it but for f- sake.

Can you imagine what would happen overnight, if every worker, no matter how little or how much they earnt, used every possible way of claiming their tax back? And every business..every other individual I missed out..

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Steve K
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skwirked
Sep 11 2015, 10:21 PM
Quote:
 
* you could for example try this one: The taxman sees travel from home to your normal place of work as private mileage. However if you divert off that to stop and pick up or drop off something then both journeys home to drop off and drop off to work count as work. So when such increased my 75 mile commute by a mile I claimed 1 mile as expenses and 75 miles as my contribution to work costs that the tax man had to exclude from my taxable income. All perfectly legal and it didn't take too many of those and a few other wheezes before I got my money back. If they ever come back to me and say that's immoral I would say "well you started it, now we're evens"


Not having a go at you personally or even suggesting anything trumps capitalism as we know it but for f- sake.

Can you imagine what would happen overnight, if every worker, no matter how little or how much they earnt, used every possible way of claiming their tax back? And every business..every other individual I missed out..

Yeah well they shouldn't have made me pay for supposed interest on their fuck up.

Normally I would never use a loophole like that and I never created a drop off just for that purpose but when there was money to be recovered I did such drop off mileage claims off them.
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skwirked
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Steve I wasn't having a go, no one is going to bash you for occasionally reducing your tax a tad.

In fact it's codified in law that you're expected to reduce your own tax burden isn't it? JoG talked about that years and years ago..

I think you must realise, just based on how much tax the biggest businesses pay, that most are nowhere near as moralistic as you are.
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Curious Cdn
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ARBEIT MACHT FREI
Edited by Curious Cdn, Sep 11 2015, 10:50 PM.
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Rich
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skwirked
Sep 11 2015, 10:21 PM
Quote:
 
* you could for example try this one: The taxman sees travel from home to your normal place of work as private mileage. However if you divert off that to stop and pick up or drop off something then both journeys home to drop off and drop off to work count as work. So when such increased my 75 mile commute by a mile I claimed 1 mile as expenses and 75 miles as my contribution to work costs that the tax man had to exclude from my taxable income. All perfectly legal and it didn't take too many of those and a few other wheezes before I got my money back. If they ever come back to me and say that's immoral I would say "well you started it, now we're evens"


Not having a go at you personally or even suggesting anything trumps capitalism as we know it but for f- sake.

Can you imagine what would happen overnight, if every worker, no matter how little or how much they earnt, used every possible way of claiming their tax back? And every business..every other individual I missed out..

And just imagine if Drinking alcohol and smoking tobacco were to be made illegal in this country....where then would the govt finf the funds to fill in the tax revenue gap.........yes you have it in one....income tax.

Be careful what you wish for.
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Oddball
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The more accurate interpretation is, for those who work hard someone gets rewarded. How the pot created by that hard work gets shared out isn't aways the same, nor is it guaranteed to be 'fair'.
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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gus
Sep 11 2015, 04:44 PM
I will try anything to recover stolen money, i do now have an accountant even though running my other business for 18 years i did my own books, will see how the accountant and mp get on before i can ask you guys on what is best for the next step........... thanks for your help....
I have not used an accountant in years. I found them pointless, expensive, and frequently quite frighteningly ill advised. The last taxman who tried to bully me ended up strip-searched by MOD and UKAEA police after the wanker thought he could breeze in to a naval base on demand. Cameron is quite simply a lying ***t at so many levels on the matter of taxation of the small businessman that there simply is no point being in business in the UK now.
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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skwirked
Sep 11 2015, 10:21 PM
Can you imagine what would happen overnight, if every worker, no matter how little or how much they earnt, used every possible way of claiming their tax back? And every business..every other individual I missed out..

YES I can

They would have to go back to the drawing board, and produce a proper set of tax laws instead of the shambolic mess they have had for the past fifty odd years.


Any worker who does NOT take the trouble to research, in detail, exactly how to legally exploit every possible way of claiming every penny of their tax back and more besides, and then make a calculation of whether it is worth their while in time and effort is a fool and exactly the sort of lamb to the slaughter that chancellors depend upon for their annual take.

I gave up being registered for VAT many years ago, because I sat down and priced up my time taken to deal with all that bloody paperwork, and it very, VERY quickly became apparent to me that because I no longer dealt in hardware but directed my customers from joe public to sources they could acquire it, restricted myself to software and services which had next to no capital expenditure or stock requirements, and thanks to the internet no longer drove the mileages I used to, except when clients were particularly anally retentive, I was volunteering to slap a 17 and a half per cent (as it was then) surcharge on my bills to joe public for no fucking benefit to myself whatsoever - although I admit when I priced up that equation, I put a very high value on the sunday afternoons I got to play with the kids or whatever ...

My view is if you've sat down and done the calculation, whatever it is, as I have done, then how you organise yourself is your problem. To NOT do it is the mark of a fool, and to counsel that those who do it are unworthy is contemptuous beyond redemption.
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Lewis
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gus
Sep 11 2015, 02:29 PM
Yep that is what camerloon said " those who work hard will be rewarded " well i was rewarded with a £1800.00 fine, I work for a factory that i pay my tax through PAYE, In the meantime i started a new business, approx three years ago, in which i informed the tax office that the nature of the business i will need to build a stock of items before being in profit, so on the self assesment form i asked how do i put in a loss, No one from the tax office could direct me into doing this, with written letters and there abysmal call center, average wait 35 - 45 minutes i had no joy at all, then i recieved a late payment bill of £1800.00 ...

So working four nights at a factory and working four days building up a stock, sometimes with one day off in three months, i find that camerloons words are just a frigging con joke.

Got in touch with local MP to see what he can do, yep , he said he is on the case, hope so as i see that he owes money in false expenses claims, yet they are not being fined for late repayment.

Honesty in declaring my new business does not pay and those who work hard are penalised.

More hollow words from those who come out with slogans that mean nothing......
I can understand that as I'm self employed myself.

Scameron doesn't give a feck about anyone other than expense fiddling MPs, bankers and hedge fund fiddlers.
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RoofGardener
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Gus, I'm a little confused.

The self assessment form - was that for yourself as a private individual, or for your new company ? (e.g. corporation tax).

If it was relating to your own personal tax, then you can't claim back any money spent "stocking" your business. That expenditure is posted to your COMPANIES balance sheet, and would be deducted from your corporation tax bill at the end of the year.

If you are VAT registered, then you CAN claim the VAT on that expenditure at the end of your first 3-month VAT period. (but again, that refund goes to the company, not to you as a private individual, and has no bearing on your personal tax form.

If it is your personal self-assesment form that we are talking about, then the ONLY reference you can make on it is to the money paid to you BY the company (zero, in this case ? ), either as PAYE salary, or a directors dividend at the end of the year.

Can you clarify this for us ?
Edited by RoofGardener, Sep 12 2015, 07:37 AM.
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Marconi
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I bet HMRC could find the Malaysian MH370 plane, the Nigerian schoolgirls, Jimmy Hoffa, the Loch Ness monster and Big Foot if they thought revenue was owed.
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RJD
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gus
Sep 11 2015, 04:44 PM
I will try anything to recover stolen money, i do now have an accountant even though running my other business for 18 years i did my own books, will see how the accountant and mp get on before i can ask you guys on what is best for the next step........... thanks for your help....
If you have run a business for 18 years and now understand a Balance Sheet you should have some inkling of how this can be constructed in order to strengthen the company and minimise taxes. Tax planning is what Accountants do, get some professional advice as such could be financially productive for you.

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RJD
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Marconi
Sep 12 2015, 08:01 AM
I bet HMRC could find the Malaysian MH370 plane, the Nigerian schoolgirls, Jimmy Hoffa, the Loch Ness monster and Big Foot if they thought revenue was owed.
I doubt it. They find it very hard to discover taxable revenues beyond the UK shores. I suspect most have never been abroad and may not even have Passports.
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skwirked
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johnofgwent
Sep 12 2015, 06:16 AM
.. is a fool and exactly the sort of lamb to the slaughter that chancellors depend upon for their annual take.
Right.

So really our system is based on ignorance, lack of knowledge and the exploitation of those with such.

It's not bright and exciting and based on the wonderful free market, innovation and entrepreneurship that we're told so much about ALL the time.

As I said, nothing seems to trump Capitalism, but if this is the best humanity as a whole can do, it's f-ing abysmal.

By the way, must reiterate that I'm not bashing everyone who researches the reduction of their tax burden, makes sense to do it as you said.
Edited by skwirked, Sep 12 2015, 05:56 PM.
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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RoofGardener
Sep 12 2015, 07:36 AM
Gus, I'm a little confused.

The self assessment form - was that for yourself as a private individual, or for your new company ? (e.g. corporation tax).

If it was relating to your own personal tax, then you can't claim back any money spent "stocking" your business. That expenditure is posted to your COMPANIES balance sheet, and would be deducted from your corporation tax bill at the end of the year.

If you are VAT registered, then you CAN claim the VAT on that expenditure at the end of your first 3-month VAT period. (but again, that refund goes to the company, not to you as a private individual, and has no bearing on your personal tax form.

If it is your personal self-assesment form that we are talking about, then the ONLY reference you can make on it is to the money paid to you BY the company (zero, in this case ? ), either as PAYE salary, or a directors dividend at the end of the year.

Can you clarify this for us ?
Oh it's not that hard to understand, the chap that Barclays brought in to "console" those of us about to be laid off who were thinking of "portfolio working" had the whole thing explained to us. Basically, if you have multiple sources of income on your personal self assesment tax return and one or more of them are self employed, you can use losses made by your registered self employment to reduce your other tax liabilities, both PAYE and self-employed. My youngest knows all about it, her business start adviser showed her the same thing.

I can't do it myself because I've never been a "portfolio worker" in the sense I've never had two parallel cashflow streams. I understand the inland revenue really hate people who run their own ltdco and their own self employed business side by side, largely because of the huge potential there is to make use of the meterorite crater sized lopholes in current tax laws.

As for the £1800, sounds like the HMRC going all out to shag you for everything they can screw,. It;s like the £200 they demanded I pay them personally then when they admitted it wasn't payable the fuckers returned the money as a cheque payable to the company I'd struck off, so liz and fucking phil at buck house got that as part of the companies house seizure scam.

People wonder why I advocate pushing the expenses and deductions to the limit and screwing the revenue to the absolute maximum I can get away with. If they had to deal with these camelshaggers the way we who run our own show have to, they'd soon STFU ....
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Curious Cdn
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Marconi
Sep 12 2015, 08:01 AM
I bet HMRC could find the Malaysian MH370 plane, the Nigerian schoolgirls, Jimmy Hoffa, the Loch Ness monster and Big Foot if they thought revenue was owed.
There you go.

Jimmy Hoffa is locked in a vault on the Isle of Man and flight MH370 is sitting on the bottom of Lake Luzerne,sans iits secret cargo of gold.

The Loch Ness monster was foreclosed on by a Scottish bank and can be purchased at 20% of book value.

Big Foot is running on the GOP ticket just behind Danald Trump ( Its the hair that makes them so popular) and can easily be bought, too.

Edited by Curious Cdn, Sep 13 2015, 05:20 PM.
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Rich
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Curious Cdn
Sep 13 2015, 05:19 PM
Marconi
Sep 12 2015, 08:01 AM
I bet HMRC could find the Malaysian MH370 plane, the Nigerian schoolgirls, Jimmy Hoffa, the Loch Ness monster and Big Foot if they thought revenue was owed.
There you go.

Jimmy Hoffa is locked in a vault on the Isle of Man and flight MH370 is sitting on the bottom of Lake Luzerne,sans iits secret cargo of gold.

The Loch Ness monster was foreclosed on by a Scottish bank and can be purchased at 20% of book value.

Big Foot is running on the GOP ticket just behind Danald Trump ( Its the hair that makes them so popular) and can easily be bought, too.

But you forgot to mention Lord Lucan who apparently is regularly seen sat astride Shergar who is being hand fed carrots by Elvis.
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Malum Unus
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Marconi
Sep 12 2015, 08:01 AM
I bet HMRC could find the Malaysian MH370 plane, the Nigerian schoolgirls, Jimmy Hoffa, the Loch Ness monster and Big Foot if they thought revenue was owed.


They'd all get a visit from someone akin to this guy:

Posted Image

If you've ever seen Red Dwarf, you'll know why.

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skwirked
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Malum Unus
Sep 13 2015, 07:00 PM
Marconi
Sep 12 2015, 08:01 AM
I bet HMRC could find the Malaysian MH370 plane, the Nigerian schoolgirls, Jimmy Hoffa, the Loch Ness monster and Big Foot if they thought revenue was owed.


They'd all get a visit from someone akin to this guy:

Posted Image

If you've ever seen Red Dwarf, you'll know why.

!clp!
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Tytoalba
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gus
Sep 11 2015, 02:29 PM
Yep that is what camerloon said " those who work hard will be rewarded " well i was rewarded with a £1800.00 fine, I work for a factory that i pay my tax through PAYE, In the meantime i started a new business, approx three years ago, in which i informed the tax office that the nature of the business i will need to build a stock of items before being in profit, so on the self assesment form i asked how do i put in a loss, No one from the tax office could direct me into doing this, with written letters and there abysmal call center, average wait 35 - 45 minutes i had no joy at all, then i recieved a late payment bill of £1800.00 ...

So working four nights at a factory and working four days building up a stock, sometimes with one day off in three months, i find that camerloons words are just a frigging con joke.

Got in touch with local MP to see what he can do, yep , he said he is on the case, hope so as i see that he owes money in false expenses claims, yet they are not being fined for late repayment.

Honesty in declaring my new business does not pay and those who work hard are penalised.

More hollow words from those who come out with slogans that mean nothing......
Should have obtained the service of an accountant. who would have completed your return for you. They charge from £100 for a self assessment upwards. I think you have up to five years to claim back overpaid tax.but I sure someone has the answers.
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papasmurf
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" those who work hard will be rewarded "

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