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| Keep your moralising to yourself | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 12 2015, 03:32 PM (328 Views) | |
| RJD | Sep 12 2015, 03:32 PM Post #1 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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LINK Well said, it needed saying. When the likes of Corbyn say the killing of Osuma Bin Ladin was a tragedy one has to wonder why his removal from this Planet has been a set back. No we cannot get a Court of Law to sanction every action that is necessary to eradicate this World of the likes of ISIL and/or individuals acting under their banner. We are not ordered in a way that such is possible, not even the UN could or would make this necessary action a possibility. There is a judgement to be made of the consequences of acting or not acting. As we have seen the anti-war mongers took away the stick to beat Assad over the head and now millions are refugees. If we wait until some Court of Law provides a warrant for us to legally act, then we will wait forever and the World will see many more refugees on the march. |
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| Deleted User | Sep 12 2015, 03:42 PM Post #2 |
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OK if you want people who are deemed to be our enemies assassinated then you cant really whine when other people kill our citizens because THEY deem them to be their enemies can you? The tragedy of Bin Laden's assassination is that the yanks could of captured him and put him on trial...you dont understand this? |
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| skwirked | Sep 12 2015, 03:45 PM Post #3 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Moralising..telegraph..pot kettle black. The article ITSELF is a moralistic diatribe.
Edited by skwirked, Sep 12 2015, 03:46 PM.
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| Deleted User | Sep 12 2015, 03:47 PM Post #4 |
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Shit what can be more ' moralising' than assassinating a fucking person you deemed to be your enemy.
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| Deleted User | Sep 12 2015, 04:00 PM Post #5 |
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Also how about Mr Cameron scrambling atop of his own self built moral high ground when he trumpeted about the drone killings of a British ISIS member. There was plenty of self glorification in there too. The killings may or may not have been justified but there is no justification in criticising people who want to know whether it was necessary to do it. |
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| skwirked | Sep 12 2015, 04:03 PM Post #6 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Oh well expect the intransigent defence committee to arrive anytime, ignore all that and insist it was the right thing to do. Who cares about innocent civilians lives after all. Maybe it's more justified if you think that no one is innocent..oh hold on, who else stood by that line? Edited by skwirked, Sep 12 2015, 04:04 PM.
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| Deleted User | Sep 12 2015, 04:05 PM Post #7 |
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If we kill 'em they are de facto guilty of the crimes we attributed to them...because we wouldnt kill 'em otherwise................would we? |
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| RJD | Sep 12 2015, 04:05 PM Post #8 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Really. They would have had the full cooperation of the Pakistani Gov. would they? Best you concentrate on that which you do not understand prior to attempting to be judgemental. |
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| Deleted User | Sep 12 2015, 04:10 PM Post #9 |
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WTF are you on about? The Pakistani government ( allegedly) knew nothing about it?...and that would not have prevented the Yanks to capture Bin Laden and take him back to the US. In fact iirc the Pakistani government were furious about it. Best you stop posting bollocks accusing others of your own ignorance. |
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| Marconi | Sep 12 2015, 04:16 PM Post #10 |
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Regular Member
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Normally RJD, even when your views oppose mine, you make sense. I'm not convinced on this one. Actually, I'm glad their both dead. But thereafter I could hardly complain if their relatives come looking for me and use the same summary justice. And this why we're in the sh1t we are in. At some point the killing on both sides need to stop and some peace process needs to start. |
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| skwirked | Sep 12 2015, 04:16 PM Post #11 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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The mind boggles but I'm pretty sure he's trying to stick with the 'hawkish neocon' view that dem damn terreezsts knew all aboudit and done dang ddiddly squat. |
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| Deleted User | Sep 12 2015, 04:27 PM Post #12 |
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TBH it wouldnt matter if they did or did not. The fact remains that Bin Laden was assassinated and need not of been. I suspect that Bin Laden may have been seen to be a liability if he was tried so was despatched instead. This and the killer drone campaign reveals the hypocrisy that permeates Western thinking. If Hamas was to assassinate a prominent Israeli politician because he was responsible for killing innocent Palestinians there would be an overwhelming backlash against Hamas..even if their case was proven but the West can kill others with impunity if we simply declare that they are a threat. If anyone questions this the usual suspects come out the woodwork and claim the moral highground. |
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| johnofgwent | Sep 12 2015, 04:44 PM Post #13 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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well the asshole from penarth who berated his fellow moslems for not doing their bit for martyrdom in is "the only way is jihad" video certainly didn't seem to care who got wasted I'm just sorry I did not get to see the stuff I helped develop to stop the russians dumped on him. Now that WOULD be a youtube video worth watching. Bottom line: these bastards crossed the line and they're a greasy stain on a sand-filled shithole now and I for one am off for pint to celebrate it. |
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| johnofgwent | Sep 12 2015, 04:48 PM Post #14 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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No, that's not how it works. The killing will stop when every last stinking one of them is a greasy stain on the sand like they are. This is the only way. Not because it's OUR way, but because it is THEIRS. |
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| RoofGardener | Sep 12 2015, 05:27 PM Post #15 |
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Lord of Plantpots
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Consider this. If we sanction our governments actions in this case, we are giving them carte blanche to kill any British citizen, regardless of their location, without ANY judicial process whatsoever. All it requires is an 'intelligence finding' that the individual represents a threat to the state. Ultimately, it merely requires the OPINION of the Prime Minister. Hitler had this power; so did Stalin and Mao. Do you REALLY want Jeremy Corbyn to have it as well ? We must put a stop to this, otherwise it could come back to haunt us onethousandfold. This goes WAY beyond the issue of a couple of stupid ISIS revolutionaries |
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| Deleted User | Sep 12 2015, 05:28 PM Post #16 |
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Problem is that by killing them with drones all you are doing is finding an expensive way to create more of them. So even if the 'morality' of it is abandoned ,the practicality of doing it must be in question. |
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| Deleted User | Sep 12 2015, 05:30 PM Post #17 |
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Indeed,What they do to them today, they may do to us tomorrow. |
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| skwirked | Sep 12 2015, 05:45 PM Post #18 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Excellent post. I'd say that unquantifiable little beast called karma plays a part too. If we indiscriminately kill these 'stains'(bloody hell, such flowery language) then there might be hell to pay. Don't want a lot more attacks on our soil.. |
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| Deleted User | Sep 12 2015, 06:03 PM Post #19 |
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If we stop projecting military power into the middle east and let ISIS's natural enemies defeat them then those blighters might think that they can get by without us...and that would never do , would it? |
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| skwirked | Sep 12 2015, 06:16 PM Post #20 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Nah..always have to 'improve things'. and intervene. PS love this video and song written about d kelly, the modifying the bird thing is brilliant: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M8ybWaIvmaM |
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| C-too | Sep 12 2015, 06:23 PM Post #21 |
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Honourable Member
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Isis are an evil bunch of criminals, extreme in their personal acts of butchering, torturing and rape. If you are not one of them then you are fair game for their atrocities. Anyone who attempts to defend them in any way is IMO in need of psychological help. |
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| Deleted User | Sep 12 2015, 06:25 PM Post #22 |
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Anyone who thought anyone has been 'defending' them on this thread is in need of a better pair of specs
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| gee4444 | Sep 12 2015, 07:06 PM Post #23 |
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Regular Member
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I don't support ISIS either but there's a lot of BS in the media over this issue. If my memory serves me correctly I do believe the Tories supported ISIS not too long ago in order to remove Assad. I'm not defending Assad either. The whole situation is a first class (possibly engineered) fuck up. This is a good read: http://www.stopwar.org.uk/news/eight-facts-everyone-should-know-about-the-rise-of-isis-and-the-new-war-in-iraq |
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| Deleted User | Sep 12 2015, 07:30 PM Post #24 |
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| Steve K | Sep 12 2015, 10:00 PM Post #25 |
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Once and future cynic
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Even if those supposed 'facts' were true (and its a whopping big IF) that does not back your "I do believe the Tories supported ISIS not too long ago" Perhaps you could please post something a bit more tangible to show that accusation has any merit |
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| C-too | Sep 12 2015, 11:03 PM Post #26 |
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Honourable Member
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I agree. |
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| gee4444 | Sep 12 2015, 11:09 PM Post #27 |
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Regular Member
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Aug 2013, Cameron lost a vote to attack Assad's Syria regime: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/aug/30/cameron-mps-syria Given those very people fighting Assad at the time are now believed to be members of ISIS it's clear Cammy has switched sides: 2015: Assad is fighting ISIS in Syria ad West should assist him: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/president-bashar-alassad-should-have-role-in-fight-against-isis-says-austrian-foreign-minister-10491906.html Debating with you always follows the same pattern. Any links presented which challenge your position are dismissed as suspicious and dismissed. Your choice, just don't expect me to run around trying to convince you otherwise. I'd suggest the whole situation highlights Camers' inconsistencies in his preferred responses. 1st bomb Assad, helping ISIS, now bomb ISIS and help Assad. He's out of his depth on this matter. |
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| Steve K | Sep 13 2015, 11:43 AM Post #28 |
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Once and future cynic
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Wrong First the resolution was not as you described. It was seeking HofC approval to join international action to attack Syria for use of chemical weapons. That was not approved. As for "those very people fighting Assad at the time are now believed to be members of ISIS " what rubbish. Please do some research before posting such broad brush statements. There were and are lots of factions fighting Assad, so deeply is he hated by the majority in Syria. supposedIS is but one of them. |
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| Cymru | Sep 13 2015, 04:11 PM Post #29 |
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Alt-Right
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Were that the case why is he still there? Why does he still have a large military and paramilitary forces fighting for him? Russian guns, Iranian money and Hezbollah fighters can only do so much, and it is not as if this gives Assad a massive advantage considering the even greater foreign support (in arms, money, training and volunteers) that his opponents receive and indeed are more dependent on. Clearly he is not hated by the majority in Syria. |
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| Rich | Sep 13 2015, 07:04 PM Post #30 |
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Senior Member
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Once we obtain energy security rather than relying on ME oil, then we can and should leave the Arabian countries to their own devices, I do however fear the consequences of the saudi royal family and others like them suddenly coming to realise that they are of no longer any use to the west, oh dear, they too will have to learn what "drawing ones belt in " really means. |
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| RoofGardener | Sep 13 2015, 07:06 PM Post #31 |
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Lord of Plantpots
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I agree with Rich. |
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| gee4444 | Sep 13 2015, 07:17 PM Post #32 |
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Regular Member
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Whatever. |
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| Steve K | Sep 13 2015, 10:25 PM Post #33 |
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Once and future cynic
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Did you mistype Syria for Kremlin where the majority support him? For it is very much Putin's equipment and financial support that has kept him in power. |
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| Cymru | Sep 13 2015, 10:46 PM Post #34 |
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Alt-Right
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By the same token then it is Pentagon and their puppets' equipment and financial support that has kept the rebels in the field. |
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| Steve K | Sep 13 2015, 11:05 PM Post #35 |
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Once and future cynic
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Not even remotely comparable levels of support How many planeloads of support have the US landed in Syria during the conflict? Zero Whereas Assad is bragging about two of these monsters arriving from Russia just today ![]() |
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| Cymru | Sep 14 2015, 01:13 AM Post #36 |
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Alt-Right
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http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/mi6-the-cia-and-turkeys-rogue-game-in-syria-9256551.html How many planeloads? I couldn't say. The CIA don't appear to be as open as others about the support they have been giving the Syrian rebels but that they have giving extensive support themselves and helped facilitate even larger support from its allies there can be no doubt. Though instead of planeloads you should think more in terms of boatloads and truckloads. Edited by Cymru, Sep 14 2015, 01:20 AM.
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| Tytoalba | Sep 17 2015, 10:29 AM Post #37 |
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They certainlyy do not return to cause you more grief. |
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| ranger121 | Sep 17 2015, 10:48 AM Post #38 |
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Administrator
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Re this line:
Isn't that completely out of context? |
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| C-too | Sep 17 2015, 11:48 AM Post #39 |
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Honourable Member
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No attempt to arrest him as far as "I can see". So he doesn't actually know. |
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| ranger121 | Sep 17 2015, 02:11 PM Post #40 |
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Administrator
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How should anyone know exactly what happened? As far as we the general public are informed, the body was unceremoniously dumped out of a helicopter so there would be no martyr. Why should Corbyn be privy to more detailed information than everyone else, and secondly be able to speak about it to the media? |
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