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Appointed to Corbyn's cabinet - without ever meeting
Topic Started: Sep 14 2015, 03:05 PM (663 Views)
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34245061

Why not?

Might get lucky and find a bright star. The others certainly are nothing special.
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C-too
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skwirked
Sep 15 2015, 02:04 PM
C-too
Sep 15 2015, 12:44 PM
skwirked
Sep 15 2015, 12:20 PM
Well, there's some counterweight ie new statesman, guardian, indy and err others I forget.

I'd trust constituents over politicians to regulate themselves through their unaccountable committees any day.
IMO all papers have a bias. In the past I've even heard disc jockeys and others on the radio making biased political comments.

All politicians have to depend on being elected and being re-elected. My preference would be to leave things as they are, although I understand many would like to see changes.
Yes we get it, go back to NL and don't rock the boat.

Thankfully the world moves on.

Anyone who doesn't adapt is liable to be eaten alive, yes it's unfair.

Hopefully something good will come out of the pretty extreme things going on politically.
As has been said change doesn't necessarily mean good. I think people should realise that in politics it is better to go on what they know rather than being driven by a desire to change things to suit their own particular ideas when there are just too many different independent ideas. That's why we have centrist parties.

A left wing government would further divide the country every bit as much as a right-wing government would.



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C-too
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papasmurf
Sep 15 2015, 02:25 PM
marybrown
Sep 15 2015, 02:09 PM
Has feckin Jeremy Corbin done anything yet..if he has..please post me a link..
Terrified the right wing press, there is no other reason for them to go completely overboard attacking him. The Tory propaganda video is ridiculous.

No he hasn't terrified them, he has just supplied them with political fodder.
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Cymru
Alt-Right
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papasmurf
Sep 15 2015, 02:25 PM
marybrown
Sep 15 2015, 02:09 PM
Has feckin Jeremy Corbin done anything yet..if he has..please post me a link..
Terrified the right wing press, there is no other reason for them to go completely overboard attacking him. The Tory propaganda video is ridiculous.

And it seems it has backfired too:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-jeremy-corbyn-attack-ad-6447737
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Cymru
Alt-Right
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This one is even better:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/russia-trolls-david-cameron-over-6443105#rlabs=1%20rt$category%20p$9
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Steve K
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Cymru
Sep 15 2015, 05:31 PM
Not as good as that “taking a fair amount of shit” revelation about Corbyn's back of a seed packet* approach to cabinet forming.

The man couldn't be trusted to boil an egg, not that Kerry McCarthy his new shadow environmental secretary would let him have an egg.


* © Kevin Mcguire editor of the Daily Mirror
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Cymru
Alt-Right
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Steve K
Sep 15 2015, 07:44 PM
Cymru
Sep 15 2015, 05:31 PM
Not as good as that “taking a fair amount of shit” revelation about Corbyn's back of a seed packet* approach to cabinet forming.

The man couldn't be trusted to boil an egg, not that Kerry McCarthy his new shadow environmental secretary would let him have an egg.


* © Kevin Mcguire editor of the Daily Mirror
Sky news reporters overheard, BBC reporters overheard, Labour source confirms... that people will believe any bad thing said of someone if that someone is somebody they themselves dislike.
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Steve K
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Cymru
Sep 15 2015, 07:54 PM
Steve K
Sep 15 2015, 07:44 PM
Cymru
Sep 15 2015, 05:31 PM
Not as good as that “taking a fair amount of shit” revelation about Corbyn's back of a seed packet* approach to cabinet forming.

The man couldn't be trusted to boil an egg, not that Kerry McCarthy his new shadow environmental secretary would let him have an egg.


* © Kevin Mcguire editor of the Daily Mirror
Sky news reporters overheard, BBC reporters overheard, Labour source confirms... that people will believe any bad thing said of someone if that someone is somebody they themselves dislike.
So all Sky and the BBC are lying their arses off about that oh shit we'd better get Angela something else fiasco are they?  ::)

You know it's true, even more importantly everyone knows it's true.

Corbyn the back of a seed packet man, McDonell the foot in mouth man and Murphy the born again aggressive tax avoider. What a team




not
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skwirked
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Still better than the current power shower of dung.
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AndyK
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The real problem for Corbyn is that he dos not have the support of the parliamentary Labour party.

A leader with no support is not going to last long.
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Cymru
Alt-Right
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Steve K
Sep 15 2015, 07:59 PM
Cymru
Sep 15 2015, 07:54 PM
Steve K
Sep 15 2015, 07:44 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deephttp://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/russia-trolls-david-cameron-over-6443105#rlabs=1%20rt$category%20p$9“taking a fair amount of shit” revelation about Corbyn's back of a seed packet* approach to cabinet forming.

The man couldn't be trusted to boil an egg, not that Kerry McCarthy his new shadow environmental secretary would let him have an egg.


* © Kevin Mcguire editor of the Daily Mirror
Sky news reporters overheard, BBC reporters overheard, Labour source confirms... that people will believe any bad thing said of someone if that someone is somebody they themselves dislike.
So all Sky and the BBC are lying their arses off about that oh shit we'd better get Angela something else fiasco are they?  ::)

You know it's true, even more importantly everyone knows it's true.

Corbyn the back of a seed packet man, McDonell the foot in mouth man and Murphy the born again aggressive tax avoider. What a team




not
I'm only asking for the same standard of proof you demand from others.
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Tigger
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Cymru
Sep 15 2015, 05:31 PM
Perhaps Cameron could follow Putins lead in dealing with awkward political foes?


Check your sandwiches Jeremy! ;D
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Cymru
Sep 15 2015, 08:24 PM
Steve K
Sep 15 2015, 07:59 PM
Cymru
Sep 15 2015, 07:54 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deephttp://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/russia-trolls-david-cameron-over-6443105#rlabs=1%20rt$category%20p$9“taking a fair amount of shit” revelation about Corbyn's back of a seed packet* approach to cabinet forming.

The man couldn't be trusted to boil an egg, not that Kerry McCarthy his new shadow environmental secretary would let him have an egg.


*
So all Sky and the BBC are lying their arses off about that oh shit we'd better get Angela something else fiasco are they?  ::)

You know it's true, even more importantly everyone knows it's true.

Corbyn the back of a seed packet man, McDonell the foot in mouth man and Murphy the born again aggressive tax avoider. What a team




not
I'm only asking for the same standard of proof you demand from others.
no you're not, you're being perverse

Is that supplied link to the well known Labour supporting quality paper that you have used so often suddenly not good enough just because it shows your man to be a vacuous prat.

Let's give you the full quote.

from the Labour supporting Guardian
 
The new shadow business secretary, Angela Eagle, was given an title of first secretary of state after one of Jeremy Corbyn’s staff had said they were “taking a fair amount of shit” about the lack of women in top jobs in his team.

Eagle was initially appointed as shadow business secretary in an email sent to the media by Labour headquarters at 10.35pm on Sunday. A second email announcing her extra title as first shadow secretary of state – a title once held in government by Peter Mandelson – was sent at 12.19am on Monday.

A conversation overhead by Sky News and BBC News reporters also confirmed that this extra title was an afterthought after it emerged that Corbyn was being criticised for handing the top three positions to men, . .


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Rich
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C-too
Sep 15 2015, 03:28 PM
skwirked
Sep 15 2015, 02:04 PM
C-too
Sep 15 2015, 12:44 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Yes we get it, go back to NL and don't rock the boat.

Thankfully the world moves on.

Anyone who doesn't adapt is liable to be eaten alive, yes it's unfair.

Hopefully something good will come out of the pretty extreme things going on politically.
As has been said change doesn't necessarily mean good. I think people should realise that in politics it is better to go on what they know rather than being driven by a desire to change things to suit their own particular ideas when there are just too many different independent ideas. That's why we have centrist parties.

A left wing government would further divide the country every bit as much as a right-wing government would.



I could not agree more, but FFS, all that the electorate wants is for the representative that they have sent to the house, actually represents them, especially on the manifesto platform that they stood for.....after all, that IS what they are paid to do......even Meerkats understand that.
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skwirked
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Rich
Sep 15 2015, 10:24 PM
C-too
Sep 15 2015, 03:28 PM
skwirked
Sep 15 2015, 02:04 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
As has been said change doesn't necessarily mean good. I think people should realise that in politics it is better to go on what they know rather than being driven by a desire to change things to suit their own particular ideas when there are just too many different independent ideas. That's why we have centrist parties.

A left wing government would further divide the country every bit as much as a right-wing government would.



I could not agree more, but FFS, all that the electorate wants is for the representative that they have sent to the house, actually represents them, especially on the manifesto platform that they stood for.....after all, that IS what they are paid to do......even Meerkats understand that.
And "what we know" as Ctoo puts it, is a system of unaccountable "professional politicians" clambering about to satisfy their Whips.

Few MP's stick by their manifestos and then we have people arguing against anything that could make the system more representative..arguing against recall and referenda.

Do people enjoy being taken for a ride? Some perverse pleasure perhaps?

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skwirked
Sep 16 2015, 03:47 PM
Rich
Sep 15 2015, 10:24 PM
C-too
Sep 15 2015, 03:28 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I could not agree more, but FFS, all that the electorate wants is for the representative that they have sent to the house, actually represents them, especially on the manifesto platform that they stood for.....after all, that IS what they are paid to do......even Meerkats understand that.
And "what we know" as Ctoo puts it, is a system of unaccountable "professional politicians" clambering about to satisfy their Whips.

Few MP's stick by their manifestos and then we have people arguing against anything that could make the system more representative..arguing against recall and referenda.

Do people enjoy being taken for a ride? Some perverse pleasure perhaps?



Clearly they dont. Many either throw their hands up in the air and stop taking part in the democratic process ( as small as it is) or ( when the opportunity arises) follow a political doctrine or personality that appears to be honest and equip with real answers to their problems.
This was demonstrated when so many working class people seemed to follow the UKIP right wing doctrine when traditionally it would be labour organisations that they would turn to. They hung on Farages every word because he addressed problems that other politicians failed to..indeed some seemed to deny that they existed at all.
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Pro Veritas
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Steve K
Sep 15 2015, 12:13 PM
And you might want to compare Cleg's one issue with the staggering number of times Corbyn voted against the government he promised was the basis of his constituency campaign.

And yet he was returned year after year as MP for that constituency, this time around with the biggest margin, on the highest turnout.

Guess no one there felt they had been misled, huh?

All The Best
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papasmurf
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marybrown
Sep 15 2015, 02:32 PM
I would just like him to..talk..
He did but you could not be bothered to watch it:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06ckjck

Edited by papasmurf, Sep 16 2015, 04:14 PM.
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skwirked
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papasmurf
Sep 16 2015, 04:13 PM
marybrown
Sep 15 2015, 02:32 PM
I would just like him to..talk..
He did but you could not be bothered to watch it:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06ckjck

She actually said she didn't watch it ("boring") and continued (in the next post) to complain about his performance.

:rubchin:
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skwirked
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gansao
Sep 16 2015, 04:10 PM
skwirked
Sep 16 2015, 03:47 PM
Rich
Sep 15 2015, 10:24 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
And "what we know" as Ctoo puts it, is a system of unaccountable "professional politicians" clambering about to satisfy their Whips.

Few MP's stick by their manifestos and then we have people arguing against anything that could make the system more representative..arguing against recall and referenda.

Do people enjoy being taken for a ride? Some perverse pleasure perhaps?



Clearly they dont. Many either throw their hands up in the air and stop taking part in the democratic process ( as small as it is) or ( when the opportunity arises) follow a political doctrine or personality that appears to be honest and equip with real answers to their problems.
This was demonstrated when so many working class people seemed to follow the UKIP right wing doctrine when traditionally it would be labour organisations that they would turn to. They hung on Farages every word because he addressed problems that other politicians failed to..indeed some seemed to deny that they existed at all.
And then these guys turn to Corbyn, likely without even exammoning what he really stands for.

"he might leave the EU and close the gates"

You ..ugh, he's made so many statements in total support of refugees and migrants.

"he wont engage in the punch and judy show the way I demand"
Because that works so well.
*slow clap*

"I voted UKIP because I believe in a fair and free NHS"

:facepalm:

"I dont want more democracy because the system is fine"

Then stop complaining and eat it up?

Lots people want to remain ignorant and think they're political wizards, it's really strange.
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C-too
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skwirked
Sep 16 2015, 03:47 PM
Rich
Sep 15 2015, 10:24 PM
C-too
Sep 15 2015, 03:28 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I could not agree more, but FFS, all that the electorate wants is for the representative that they have sent to the house, actually represents them, especially on the manifesto platform that they stood for.....after all, that IS what they are paid to do......even Meerkats understand that.
And "what we know" as Ctoo puts it, is a system of unaccountable "professional politicians" clambering about to satisfy their Whips.

Few MP's stick by their manifestos and then we have people arguing against anything that could make the system more representative..arguing against recall and referenda.

Do people enjoy being taken for a ride? Some perverse pleasure perhaps?

As I understand it a manifesto is a statement of intent, it is not and cannot be a promise to deliver because situations change. For me the natural thing for me to do is to vote for the party who I believe will take the country in the direction I would like to see it go in, and leave it to those who do the job of seeking information, receiving information, assessing information and acting accordingly to make the decisions. While the rest of society gets on with life.
Edited by C-too, Sep 16 2015, 04:28 PM.
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Phoenix One UK
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C-too
Sep 16 2015, 04:23 PM
skwirked
Sep 16 2015, 03:47 PM
Rich
Sep 15 2015, 10:24 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
And "what we know" as Ctoo puts it, is a system of unaccountable "professional politicians" clambering about to satisfy their Whips.

Few MP's stick by their manifestos and then we have people arguing against anything that could make the system more representative..arguing against recall and referenda.

Do people enjoy being taken for a ride? Some perverse pleasure perhaps?

As I understand it a manifesto is a statement of intent, it is not and cannot be a promise to deliver because situations change. For me the natural thing }edit} --- for me --- to do is to vote for the party who I believe will take the country in the direction I would like to see it go in, and leave it to those who do the job of seeking information, receiving information, assessing information and acting accordingly to make the decisions. While the rest of society gets on with life.
I can see the reasoning behind what you say, but there is a danger in allowing a selected few decide the fate of a nation or even the world. It is here that democracy has real value, as people, as a rule, are capable of making rational decisions. In many cases, it is often more rational than MPs elected to represent them.

Where Corvbyn is concerned, I have seen a number of MPs stating something on Corbyn's behalf, and I would rather hear it from him. After all, he is the new leader of Labour party despite more than a 100 Labours MPs not liking the idea.

I am not at this point [prepared to form any opinions on Corbyn. I had visited his site (at link supplied by SteveK), and I see what he wants, but even he must know compromises must be made for good of the party and people they are supposed to represent. The real question is, what will he do? We will have to see on that point.

The one thing I can say about Corbyn is that he is not New labour like Blair or Brown, and he ignored Blair as Milliband should have done.

Edited by Phoenix One UK, Sep 16 2015, 04:40 PM.
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skwirked
Sep 16 2015, 04:23 PM
gansao
Sep 16 2015, 04:10 PM
skwirked
Sep 16 2015, 03:47 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep


Clearly they dont. Many either throw their hands up in the air and stop taking part in the democratic process ( as small as it is) or ( when the opportunity arises) follow a political doctrine or personality that appears to be honest and equip with real answers to their problems.
This was demonstrated when so many working class people seemed to follow the UKIP right wing doctrine when traditionally it would be labour organisations that they would turn to. They hung on Farages every word because he addressed problems that other politicians failed to..indeed some seemed to deny that they existed at all.
And then these guys turn to Corbyn, likely without even exammoning what he really stands for.

"he might leave the EU and close the gates"

You ..ugh, he's made so many statements in total support of refugees and migrants.

"he wont engage in the punch and judy show the way I demand"
Because that works so well.
*slow clap*

"I voted UKIP because I believe in a fair and free NHS"

:facepalm:

"I dont want more democracy because the system is fine"

Then stop complaining and eat it up?

Lots people want to remain ignorant and think they're political wizards, it's really strange.


:thumbsup:

Corbyn needs a political astute public supporting him . He says he wants an inclusive Labour party and ( maybe) government . There may be an alternative to voting and hoping.
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Steve K
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Pro Veritas
Sep 16 2015, 04:12 PM
Steve K
Sep 15 2015, 12:13 PM
And you might want to compare Cleg's one issue with the staggering number of times Corbyn voted against the government he promised was the basis of his constituency campaign.

And yet he was returned year after year as MP for that constituency, this time around with the biggest margin, on the highest turnout.

Guess no one there felt they had been misled, huh?

All The Best
As you full well know in a first past the post system no one had any other Labour candidate to vote for.

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Steve K
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skwirked
Sep 16 2015, 03:47 PM
. .Few MP's stick by their manifestos . .
And you have evidence to back that? Please post it
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skwirked
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The obvious ones like LD tuition fees, greater democracy stand out.

I honestly don't know where to begin with Tory mps.

Some of the most straightforward stuff would be the BS about "compassion" and the "big society" which has been unequivocally been shelved.

Labour mps might be the worst, voting for Tory policies where their manifesto explicitly rejects them.

Note: never said anything about promises, it was an intentionally vague term I used. I will not be producing a list of every contravention an mp made.
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Steve K
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skwirked
Sep 17 2015, 01:01 AM
The obvious ones like LD tuition fees, greater democracy stand out.

I honestly don't know where to begin with Tory mps.

Some of the most straightforward stuff would be the BS about "compassion" and the "big society" which has been unequivocally been shelved.

Labour mps might be the worst, voting for Tory policies where their manifesto explicitly rejects them.

Note: never said anything about promises, it was an intentionally vague term I used. I will not be producing a list of every contravention an mp made.
I suggest you actually check your assertion

And remember a manifesto is dead if that party is not elected so you can't blame the LDs for that.

Most MPs back their manifestoes. Even Corbyn does most of the time. It's just become popular over the years for people to spread the lie that they don't. A very harmful lie but many people have been taken in and repeat the lie believing it to be true.
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skwirked
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Hmm, what I said was 'stick by'. They drift away from the things they said they'd try to do, or more commonly in my eyes - have a half hearted stab and then shelve it for a long while if it proves too taxing.

Some MPs fight tooth and nail everyday for their constituents yet who really gives them any publicity?

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Tytoalba
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skwirked
Sep 14 2015, 04:00 PM
More capable of what, making soundbites and fooling idiots into believing their vacuous drivel?

Corbyn might well prove to be the answer, it's too early to make such rash judgements.
That concludes that Corbyn might or might not be the answer, th weight of opinion oin the Labour Parliamentary party leaning to the might not's. It would be better if there was a degree of certainty about his leadership, and the full support from within his party. Remember always that to make changes he has to win an election, and at the moment there is no sign that he will or can. Hope seems to be running a long way ahead of expectation and objectivity.
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Tytoalba
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skwirked
Sep 17 2015, 01:01 AM
The obvious ones like LD tuition fees, greater democracy stand out.

I honestly don't know where to begin with Tory mps.

Some of the most straightforward stuff would be the BS about "compassion" and the "big society" which has been unequivocally been shelved.

Labour mps might be the worst, voting for Tory policies where their manifesto explicitly rejects them.

Note: never said anything about promises, it was an intentionally vague term I used. I will not be producing a list of every contravention an mp made.
Money, money, money., Where's the money coming from to pay for it all other than by printing it?
Money is payment for the fruits of labour, a return on effort and work Printing it without that support is the road to inflation and financial disaster, and the withdrawal of business support from around the world.
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skwirked
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..What does money hqve to do with the post of mine you quoted.
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Pro Veritas
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Steve K
Sep 17 2015, 12:40 AM
As you full well know in a first past the post system no one had any other Labour candidate to vote for.

:facepalm:

Well, if he had done a really, really bad job they would have voted elsewhere - they didn't.

Had he done an OK job he would have been returned, but with a diminishing majority.

Had he done a reasonable job he would probably have been returned with a slightly increased majority.

Had he done a stellar job one would expect an increasing majority, and perhaps even a higher turn out as more and more people realised what a great MP they had.

I wonder, which of these did Corbyn experience at the last general election?

 ::)

All The Best
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Steve K
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Pro Veritas
Sep 17 2015, 01:36 PM
Steve K
Sep 17 2015, 12:40 AM
As you full well know in a first past the post system no one had any other Labour candidate to vote for.

:facepalm:

Well, if he had done a really, really bad job they would have voted elsewhere - they didn't.

Had he done an OK job he would have been returned, but with a diminishing majority.

Had he done a reasonable job he would probably have been returned with a slightly increased majority.

Had he done a stellar job one would expect an increasing majority, and perhaps even a higher turn out as more and more people realised what a great MP they had.

I wonder, which of these did Corbyn experience at the last general election?

 ::)

All The Best
Well yes since 2001 his share of the Islington vote has declined

and the Tories share increased

Your point was?
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Pro Veritas
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Steve K
Sep 17 2015, 01:51 PM
Well yes since 2001 his share of the Islington vote has declined

and the Tories share increased

Your point was?
Hang on, you do know we are in 2015, right?

So the important factor here is the result of his selection as MP in 2015.

For which he was elected with 60.2% of the vote, and upswing of 5.8%.

In fact Corbyn has only seen his share of the vote fall twice.

In 2001, when Labour support was starting to dwindle right across the nation.

And in 2005 when even the Sainted Tony "Tory Lite" Blair could not have led Labour to victory.

And in fact since that low he has increased his share of the vote by 9.1%.

How many other Labour MPs can say that?

All The Best
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Phoenix One UK
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New Labour leader could boost the numbers of Liberal Democrats

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11870776/Jeremy-Corbyn-Labour-party-live.html

Unquote:================================

What a mess Labour is in. Further, if any Labour MP does defect to LibDems will there be a bi-election? :rubchin:
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Tytoalba
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skwirked
Sep 17 2015, 12:42 PM
..What does money hqve to do with the post of mine you quoted.
Money has a connection with the whole of political expectations. Without the means you can do little.
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Steve K
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Pro Veritas
Sep 17 2015, 02:14 PM
. . How many other Labour MPs can say that? . .
I don't know

But I do know in 2001 he got 61.9% of the local vote (he got 69% before) and in 2015 he got 60.2% of the vote. It went DOWN

And that rather runs counter to your point doesn't it
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Pro Veritas
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Steve K
Sep 17 2015, 04:25 PM
Pro Veritas
Sep 17 2015, 02:14 PM
. . How many other Labour MPs can say that? . .
I don't know

But I do know in 2001 he got 61.9% of the local vote (he got 69% before) and in 2015 he got 60.2% of the vote. It went DOWN

And that rather runs counter to your point doesn't it
Yes, his share of the vote went down if you compare 2001 and 2015; but why would someone compare those two specific elections while missing out the most recent election (prior to 2015) of 2010.

That might lead one to conclude that the person making that comparison was being deliberately dishonest to hide something that they hoped others would miss.

For the record the more recent results show an upturn in support 2010 (+3.3%) and 2015 (+5.8%).

Not yet enough to wipe out the loss of support from 2001 (-7.4%) and 2005 (-10.7%), but getting there.

I have no fear of the more complete picture.

I can only conclude that you do because you are still (to use an online term) butthurt about NuLab getting the finger from Labour party members.

All The Best
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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You can invent any false agenda you like but it would be you being dishonest with that barely concealed ad hom of "deliberately dishonest to hide something that they hoped others would miss."

I just thought the span of this century would be reasonable. As you full well know if I'd wanted to make a distorted point surely I'd have compared with 1997.

But talking of distorted points perhaps you merely forgot to mention that between 2010 and 2015 London (which I guess I have to point out is where Islington is) in general bucked the trend and swung to Labour. So your carefully selected narrow time span proves the square root of sod all.


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skwirked
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"But I do know in 2001 he got 61.9% of the local vote (he got 69% before) and in 2015 he got 60.2% of the vote. It went DOWN"

That could be within the margin for error it's less than a 2% change.

Pretty good considering how angry people rightly felt with Gaudy
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