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| Corbyn, the media and the estalishment. Some observations. | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 15 2015, 08:50 PM (814 Views) | |
| Tigger | Sep 15 2015, 08:50 PM Post #1 |
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They can't quite get their heads round Corbyn yet can they? I was listening to R4 on the way home from work this evening and was highly amused at what I heard, a pack of reporters tuned up at the TUC conference in Brighton and amazingly there was no buffet laid on for them! No spin doctors handing out copies of the speech Corbyn was about to deliver and no briefing of any kind, the reporter said that he and his mates ended up somewhere outside the conference centre standing in an area where the wheelie bins were kept! ![]() It got better, they actually had to go in and see him speak, this particular reporter glossed over the content of the speech and criticised the fact that Corbyn had not bothered to seek them out and warned that without them he'd not get his message across, this BBC reporter also snottily claimed that by avoiding the media, as opposed to addressing those you represent first, was a huge error as the BBC, C4, Sky and ITV "were not like the Sun or Mail" the rest of the piece was barely disguised self pity, and to cap it all we had a repeat performance by Norman Smith on the six-o-clock news! I'm enjoying this!
Edited by Tigger, Sep 15 2015, 08:51 PM.
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| skwirked | Sep 16 2015, 04:38 PM Post #81 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Yep the young are effed. Maybe if they had the same chances they'd do it all differently, sadly we'll never find out. Lots of people got shafted under Thatcher, it's just that the other people went blind in one eye..as long as they did well eh? So many "hippies" with right wing views it's funny as hell. Also the mass exodus of trots to thatcherism in tge 80s must have bern a funny sight. |
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| Deleted User | Sep 16 2015, 04:57 PM Post #82 |
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Well you hit the irony button spot on..right wingers pulling up the economic ladder while telling everyone they climbed up on their own. Where I come from we were pretty much shielded from the ravages of Thatcher ( London home counties) and I apologise from any older person who was shafted by Thatcher because I'm pretty confident that they are not singing the praises of the neo liberalist agenda that she ushered in nor are they pontificating via anecdotes of how wise they are. |
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| C-too | Sep 16 2015, 04:57 PM Post #83 |
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Didn't argue the point of the question he asked either. Just allowed Cameron to answer. His approach was somewhat novel but I think a robot could have done pretty much of what he did. |
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| skwirked | Sep 16 2015, 05:13 PM Post #84 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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He argued his points fine, they flowed, led onto the next Q. Good for a first PMQ. Sorry he wasn't busy apologizing for milipede gormless or blur's cock ups. |
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| Deleted User | Sep 16 2015, 05:31 PM Post #85 |
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Stop press! Corbyn agrees to sing the National anthem!!! |
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| skwirked | Sep 16 2015, 05:40 PM Post #86 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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| Deleted User | Sep 16 2015, 05:45 PM Post #87 |
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| C-too | Sep 16 2015, 06:25 PM Post #88 |
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No, he asked a question then went onto a different question ----- ASKED BY OTHERS.
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| Deleted User | Sep 16 2015, 06:34 PM Post #89 |
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Ctoo..That is the new face of PMQs. Corbyn styles himself as an inclusive leader not seeking unnecessary confrontation. He is playing to his strengths. I suspect that he knows that he is not good at sound bites or spin. |
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| C-too | Sep 16 2015, 06:39 PM Post #90 |
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Asking a question and then getting fobbed off is the quick road to nowhere. What will he do, just ask the questions over and over again for the next five years ? |
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| papasmurf | Sep 16 2015, 06:41 PM Post #91 |
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That has been par for the course at PMQs for a very long time. |
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| skwirked | Sep 16 2015, 06:41 PM Post #92 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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His questions contained preempted criticism of the pm's last answer given by someone real and relevant. Sorry, but I thought that was kind of great, he shrugged off Cam's silly economy stuff because he's going to for his OWN econ policies. Past is past. Edited by skwirked, Sep 16 2015, 06:42 PM.
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| Cymru | Sep 16 2015, 06:43 PM Post #93 |
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Alt-Right
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I liked what Corbyn did at PMQs, very clever. Give Cameron enough rope... |
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| Deleted User | Sep 16 2015, 06:45 PM Post #94 |
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Ass for a long time PS said that has been PMQ for a long time already. What is missing with Corbyn style PMQs ( so far) is a bitchfest complete with braying in the background. As said PMQs need not be a battleground..and I add they need not be important. There has always been more heat than light anyway. |
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| C-too | Sep 16 2015, 07:43 PM Post #95 |
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What was missing IMO was any challenge to Cameron's replies. Just asking obvious questions put forward by others makes no sense unless there are serious challenges to the replies. All that came across was that plenty of people are dissatisfied with the government and with many situations. Well Cameron and many people in the country already had no doubt that that was the case. So what was achieved ? |
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| Deleted User | Sep 16 2015, 07:46 PM Post #96 |
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In this case an orderly PMQs and IMO a shift in its emphasis and importance. |
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| C-too | Sep 16 2015, 07:57 PM Post #97 |
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IIRC, an orderly PMQs was what Cameron claimed would happen if he became PM. It was a recognition of the awfulness of the nature of PMQs in the past. Nevertheless, I can't see how just asking questions in an orderly manner and not challenging the replies is a productive improvement on the past. Corbyn might improve so I will follow him for a while and see. |
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| Deleted User | Sep 16 2015, 08:06 PM Post #98 |
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I dont think he claimed that. Why should he? He set out at the beginning of PMQs what he was going to do. Asking questions in an orderly manner and not challenging the replies is a productive improvement over the theatrical slugfests of the past PMQs. As said it reduces the importance of PMQs too and makes them What Corbyn wants them to be ..not what Cameron wants them to be. Corbyn has improved PMQs in his first session. |
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| C-too | Sep 16 2015, 08:12 PM Post #99 |
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Hmm one says "yes", the other says "no". ----- Oh, OK. Status quo remains. |
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| Deleted User | Sep 16 2015, 08:14 PM Post #100 |
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One sneers at the other, the other shouts insults over the despatch box while all the rest brays at each other..status quo remains |
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| C-too | Sep 16 2015, 08:20 PM Post #101 |
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So what happens to progress ? |
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| skwirked | Sep 16 2015, 08:22 PM Post #102 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Progress is being made, some are just blinded by dogma.
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| Deleted User | Sep 16 2015, 08:29 PM Post #103 |
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For a start there is less theatricals and aggression. Secondly there is a formal format that can be exploited ie Camerons responses can be brought back to Cameron after scrutiny from Labour rather than knee jerk sound bites . And thirdly ( and possibly most important) is that PMQs will become less important . All three are progress. |
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| Tigger | Sep 16 2015, 08:51 PM Post #104 |
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Who really cares though? Apart from pompous non entities who never faced enemy fire? My late father WAS a veteran of WW2 and had little time for ceremony or indeed royalty, let alone making a song and dance over what they got up to. He told me that when the lead started flying it was about self preservation and looking out for your mates, not thinking about King and country, strangely those facing death or dying wanted their mothers, the Germans were exactly the same in this respect as are most young men in battle faced with their extinction. The establishment is very good at hi jacking heroic events they were not part of and ensuring THEIR faces are on show for all to see, most of those dressed up yesterday would not know what dignity was if it kicked them up the arse. |
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| Tigger | Sep 16 2015, 08:55 PM Post #105 |
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Good finds, I suspect like me you've had a belly full of the press telling us how to think, react and behave. |
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| Tigger | Sep 16 2015, 09:01 PM Post #106 |
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"When a nations young men are Conservative it's death knell has already rung" Henry Ward Beecher 1813-87.
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| Steve K | Sep 16 2015, 10:55 PM Post #107 |
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Once and future cynic
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He can't be criticised for not singing the anthem IF he is consistent with that. But reports tonight suggest he's changed his mind about that and will sing it in future. The media will just love to shred a ditherer. To me it seems the media reaction to him on PMQs has generally been positive, I'd have thought far better than his supporters would have expected. As I posted in the substance thread, he may not like the way PMQs pan out over time. But as this thread is about the media did anyone see that Guido Fawkes article about him supposedly stealing food meant for RAF veterans . Just one problem with that. Not for the first time Guido turns out to be a big fat liar Edited by Steve K, Sep 16 2015, 10:58 PM.
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| skwirked | Sep 16 2015, 11:21 PM Post #108 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Agreed Steve that guy really is a BFL (c)
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| Steve K | Sep 16 2015, 11:31 PM Post #109 |
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The worry is that so many supposed intellectuals are in thrall to Guido Fawkes (real name Paul Staines) There is a reason Staines uses Irish nationality and publishes his blog through an off shore company. It makes it difficult to sue him for libel |
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| C-too | Sep 17 2015, 02:23 AM Post #110 |
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Where is the progress you post about ? |
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| C-too | Sep 17 2015, 02:30 AM Post #111 |
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I was referring to any progress in political terms. So far Corbyn has asked questions put together by others and has not responded to answers, a robot could have done that. I'm prepared to wait and see if Corbyn improves in the future but I am less than impressed by his approach so far. |
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| johnofgwent | Sep 17 2015, 06:53 AM Post #112 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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"ALL" the pilots ? Sorry Tyto, you lose As a fourteen year old, I was a member of an amateur electronics club that grew out of the interests of a number of people in the south wales area, founded my a number of chaps who were geeks long before the word was invented, for in those days they called then "boffins" and my father was one of its founder members. It was there I was introduced to a chap by the name of Arthur Barnes. A chap who had sat in one of those cockpits. To this day I remember his words, that his job as one of the few was to go up high into the sky and swoop down on some poor unsuspecting sod who did not know he was there, and shoot him in the back before he could return the favour to him, or someone he knew. As he put it, he did it because it had to be done, and somehow he managed to come back each time, while many others did not. And that he wouldn't mind so much politicians going on and on about "the few" if they were honest enough to openly admit and say that this is what they did, and that they did it because it had to be done. The last time I saw Arthur was at the Penarth Holiday Week the year after my marriage. Thatcher had done her "rejoice at that news" stunt a few months earlier. Arthur asked what I was doing these days. I'm not sure he was entirely pleased when I told him, but his words stuck with me every time I plugged the test rig into a harrier's avionics ports ... He didn't sing the National Anthem either. Especially in November. |
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| johnofgwent | Sep 17 2015, 07:05 AM Post #113 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Funny you should say that. One of my great uncles, who refused to pick up a rifle and when offered two other choices one of which was a jail cell chose the other and spent "his" war in North Africa carrying stretchers and bandages and patching up the casualties, said EXACTLY the same thing. He also said funnily enough none of those he went to help seemed to care very much that he had made the choice he had, and in fact almost without exception they seemed rather pleased to see him. He also said he treated men on both sides and and when he found them and generally by the time he got there, the uniforms were more or less the same colour ... |
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| johnofgwent | Sep 17 2015, 07:07 AM Post #114 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Now, moving back on topic... As for Corbyn I'm sure the press will enjoy its field days for many a month. But it's funny how Cameron was unable to resist reverting to the behaviour of the cockfight and the bear pit at PMQ's. Old habits and all that ... |
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| papasmurf | Sep 17 2015, 07:56 AM Post #115 |
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Back in the 1960s in the factory where I did my apprenticeship a lot of the workers had "got some in" during the 2nd World War. Being inquisitive by nature over time I asked them about their wartime experiences and would they go and fight again. A largish number would not and one in a particular, (and I found later he had a lot of medals but never wore them,) stated if his son ever decided to join the armed services he would seriously consider shooting him before someone else did. |
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| Pro Veritas | Sep 17 2015, 08:09 AM Post #116 |
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If anyone reads the i I suggest a perusal of today's letters page. Specifically the first letter, from a guy who served 22 years in the army, and a subsequent 30 years as his town's Poppy Appeal organiser and who freely admits he would rather rip out his tongue that sing the "meaningless, sycophantic drivel" than he considers the national anthem to be. I suspect that, as before the Labour Leadership was announced, every time the neo-lib supporting press attempt a hatchet job on Corbyn all they are doing is increasing support for him. Corbyn has been lucky enough to tap into a ballooning recognition, especially among the under 35 middle-class, that "more of the same old, same old" just isn't good enough anymore. All The Best |
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| Pro Veritas | Sep 17 2015, 08:18 AM Post #117 |
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As I am sure I have mentioned before here (or at least over at Mk1) my paternal grandfather instilled in his kids and grandkids a need to question authority, to rebel against orders, and all of that came from his experiences in WWII. The day he got home he burned all his medals, and there were apparently quite a few, and declared that the war was a waste of life. He barely spoke of it again, he would stand up for the National Anthem but he would not sing, he refused to wear a poppy but did, apparently, on the evening of remembrance day, after all the public outpouring of respect, go and sit at our village's war memorial, with a small bottle of whisky and offer a toast to those who had fallen, and I can attest with my own eyes that every time he passed that war memorial he doffed his cap, and nodded in respect. Media led "patriotism" is far too glorifying of war in my opinion. I have yet to meet a veteran of any conflict that glorifies what they went through, and most recognise that whatever they suffered the enemy suffered too, because the enemy were men, just like them. All The Best |
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| papasmurf | Sep 17 2015, 08:23 AM Post #118 |
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Quite, the press are like politicians far removed from the general public. I am 67 and the National Anthem has been something to be avoided for all of my life. The mass exodus from cinemas at the end of the evening before the National Anthem was played was evidence of that. That does not mean people are unpatriotic, it just means please can we have new national anthem. |
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| C-too | Sep 17 2015, 08:52 AM Post #119 |
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Yes it was a bit difficult for him even though, IIRC, he said something to the effect that PMQs would be more grown up when he became PM. IMO, Corbyn has a slow tic-over brain and would not be able to function in the old style PMQs. I'm still interested to see how it pans out for him. |
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| Tytoalba | Sep 17 2015, 09:08 AM Post #120 |
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Negative or not does it have influence on peoples minds. ? Why make enemies to oppose oneself when you can make friend with the means to give you support ? By all means make political gestures, ut bewre of others gesturing back. |
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