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Corbyn FAILS to boost Labour's popularity, dire poll
Topic Started: Sep 19 2015, 10:47 PM (1,760 Views)
Phoenix One UK
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Jeremy Corbyn FAILS to boost Labour's popularity, dire poll results reveal

JEREMY Corbyn winning the Labour leadership has done nothing for the party's popularity.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/606532/Jeremy-Corbyn-fails-boost-Labour-popularity-poll

Unquote:=====================

I personally believe this has more to do with most of Labour MPs rather than Corbyn. The moment he was selected as the Leader for Labour party, the attacks began. Clearly this was noticed by population, especially when a number stated they would defect to LibDems at one point if Corbyn did not comply with what they wanted him to do.

The Labour party is deeply divided, and Corbyn is backed into a corner. He very little support, and I seriously doubt he would be able to win any election the way things stand.
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skwirked
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Jessamy Bride
Sep 27 2015, 11:44 PM
Quote:
 
Straight..off the cliff.


Of course not...and if Mcdonnell has a viable plan...then we have an alternative to the current plan

For what its worth...I think business and industry should be encouraged and supported (to keep people in employment)
I'd like to see investment, wealth creation, industry (to keep people in employment)
Councils should stop hiking up business rates (to keep people in employment)

ie...More tax revenue...more money into local economies....less people on the dole

In fact I think any chancellor should have " Keep people in employment"..... tattooed under his eyelids
I noticed that you were presented with evidence as to why this govt are failing economically. You didn't have much of a response did you? You still don't.

McDonnell isn't chancellor, Gideon is and frankly there's plenty to be concerned about, I agree with you there...
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Steve K
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skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 11:19 PM
Steve K
Sep 27 2015, 11:09 PM
skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 10:58 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I'm sure you think there's a big difference between your "He admits he hasn't got the answers" and my "he hasn't got a clue how to make that work" but there really isn't.
Ah, so judge him harshly as possible about what, 3 weeks since he's entered the leadership?

It's clear you are dead set against him and won't give him the time of day, let alone a chance.
Well it's true I'm not impressed. I find him dishonest while at the same time hypocritically accepting this supposed badged of being THE honest politician.

He's intelligent and affable but ultimately way too far from the centre. I find most of the extreme fringes to so preach because they really seek people to blame rather than to look for better inclusive ways of building a good and rewarding society.

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C-too
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skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 11:21 PM
C-too
Sep 27 2015, 11:17 PM
skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 11:01 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
NL WERE CENTRE-LEFT operating in a right-wing economy. One does not have to be particularly bright to be able to recognise that FACT.

If NL were not willing to work in a right-wing economy the 40 years of opposition by Old labour would have been more like 50 Years by now.

So like on that other thread where they were neoliberal but also not?

You really don't make much sense.
They increased social benefits and increased civil servants two thing no Neo Liberal government would do.

Did NL come to office to work within an existing neo liberal economy ?

Did NL introduce the neo liberal economy ?

Did the neo liberal economy appear to be working well in the early years of the NL government ?

Did NL come to office after 18 years of callous Conservatism ?

Did old Labour spend most of its time as an opposition party ?
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skwirked
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Steve K
Sep 27 2015, 11:51 PM
skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 11:19 PM
Steve K
Sep 27 2015, 11:09 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep"He admits he hasn't got the answers" and my "he hasn't got a clue how to make that work" but there really isn't.
Ah, so judge him harshly as possible about what, 3 weeks since he's entered the leadership?

It's clear you are dead set against him and won't give him the time of day, let alone a chance.
Well it's true I'm not impressed. I find him dishonest while at the same time hypocritically accepting this supposed badged of being THE honest politician.

He's intelligent and affable but ultimately way too far from the centre. I find most of the extreme fringes to so preach because they really seek people to blame rather than to look for better inclusive ways of building a good and rewarding society.

He's not set out to blame anyone and inclusiveness is his keyword.

If after 9 or so months it looks like he's really a bit of a hack, fine. but I doubt someone like Kinnock (who I presume you admire) looked too good at first either.

There are elements of NL policy that I admire, I only wish we could pick and choose, and with any luck, Corbyn's policy of democratic decision-making...might actually allow that as a possibility.

Certainly glad the others didnt make it s leader..
Edited by skwirked, Sep 28 2015, 12:02 AM.
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Jessamy Bride
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Quote:
 
You didn't have much of a response did you? You still don't.


Why should I ?....I don't have any affiliations.
Edited by Jessamy Bride, Sep 28 2015, 12:00 AM.
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skwirked
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Jessamy Bride
Sep 27 2015, 11:58 PM
Quote:
 
You didn't have much of a response did you? You still don't.


Why should I ?....I don't have any affiliations.
And you ignore evidence.
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Jessamy Bride
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Which post?

If you mean the interest on debt graph... I posted this


"Of course we have a bigger debt interest.....We have a bigger debt.
The deficit halved over the coalition government though from 10% of GDP to 5% - 154bn to 90 bn in real terms.
Not as good as anyone wanted... but Osbourne borrowed more money than expected and growth was less than expected (because we had a couple of recessions)
Expected to go into the black at some point....who knows when.
Its rather worrying to say the least."

I have been watching the economy carefully for many years.
Edited by Jessamy Bride, Sep 28 2015, 12:10 AM.
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C-too
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gansao
Sep 27 2015, 11:02 PM
C-too
Sep 27 2015, 10:54 PM
gansao
Sep 27 2015, 10:45 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
An inclusive Labour party could not be a socialist party so it seems that Corbyn is trying to fool people. One part of the labour will have to take a back seat. If that is the centre-left of the party then that would be like the centre- right of the Tory party taking a back seat to the right-wing of the their party.

No amount of blather or woolly thinking can make centre-left and left-wing mean the same thing.


The only people who are trying to fool people are the fools who believe that tory lite leadership is the way to go.
Corbyn is a collectivist who had pledged to lead an inclusive Labour party.
If you cannot quite understand this then perhaps you should wait until the party has formed its policies before trying to derail them ... :facepalm:
I wonder why some people hide behind the lie that NL were just "lite" Tories. I imagine they are duped by their own political bias.

Centre-Left is the way to go, NL were successful while leftist Labour were little better than a professional opposition party. FACT. :)

A Socialist who wants a socialist come "Tory Lite" party. !jk!
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skwirked
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C-too
Sep 27 2015, 11:55 PM
skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 11:21 PM
C-too
Sep 27 2015, 11:17 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
So like on that other thread where they were neoliberal but also not?

You really don't make much sense.
They increased social benefits and increased civil servants two thing no Neo Liberal government would do.

Did NL come to office to work within an existing neo liberal economy ?

Did NL introduce the neo liberal economy ?

Did the neo liberal economy appear to be working well in the early years of the NL government ?

Did NL come to office after 18 years of callous Conservatism ?

Did old Labour spend most of its time as an opposition party ?
Most people admired Wilson and Attlee, even Tories.

We need powerful leaders like those guys, but with modern policies that are workable.

NL is dead, it 's best not to continuously extol their praises when even Blair himself has edged away from it all...to the extent of implicitly endorsing Cam.
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skwirked
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Jessamy Bride
Sep 28 2015, 12:05 AM
Which post?
You obviously know the one, you just said "why should I?" regarding responding to it.

Neat get out clause, no I won't be scouring the forum for it.
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C-too
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skwirked
Sep 28 2015, 12:07 AM
C-too
Sep 27 2015, 11:55 PM
skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 11:21 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
They increased social benefits and increased civil servants two thing no Neo Liberal government would do.

Did NL come to office to work within an existing neo liberal economy ?

Did NL introduce the neo liberal economy ?

Did the neo liberal economy appear to be working well in the early years of the NL government ?

Did NL come to office after 18 years of callous Conservatism ?

Did old Labour spend most of its time as an opposition party ?
Most people admired Wilson and Attlee, even Tories.

We need powerful leaders like those guys, but with modern policies that are workable.

NL is dead, it 's best not to continuously extol their praises when even Blair himself has edged away from it all...to the extent of implicitly endorsing Cam.
Attlee Yes, Wilson managed about 8 years in office at a time when the Tories had visited 17 years of abject failure on the country.

NL is dead, Centre left, not socialist, politics is the way to go.

Edit:
I note you completely ignored my questions and moved on to your own agenda. That is something another Corbyn supporter on this forum does a lot of. Is it a case of avoidance, I wonder.
Edited by C-too, Sep 28 2015, 06:54 AM.
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C-too
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gansao
Sep 27 2015, 11:02 PM
C-too
Sep 27 2015, 10:54 PM
gansao
Sep 27 2015, 10:45 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
An inclusive Labour party could not be a socialist party so it seems that Corbyn is trying to fool people. One part of the labour will have to take a back seat. If that is the centre-left of the party then that would be like the centre- right of the Tory party taking a back seat to the right-wing of the their party.

No amount of blather or woolly thinking can make centre-left and left-wing mean the same thing.


The only people who are trying to fool people are the fools who believe that tory lite leadership is the way to go.
Corbyn is a collectivist who had pledged to lead an inclusive Labour party.
If you cannot quite understand this then perhaps you should wait until the party has formed its policies before trying to derail them ... :facepalm:
An "inclusive" Labour party ;D

---- "And he hinted he could give a free vote to Labour MPs on whether to renew the programme at a cost of £20bn, when it comes up in the House of Commons next year, saying it did not matter if there was a split in the party" ----.

Cracks in the party before it has even begun. !jk!
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Steve K
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skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 11:58 PM
He's not set out to blame anyone and inclusiveness is his keyword.

:nono: so you didn't read that economics policy document of his then

Quote:
 
If after 9 or so months it looks like he's really a bit of a hack, fine. but I doubt someone like Kinnock (who I presume you admire) . . ..

Let's stop this right here. Kinnock was appalling
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papasmurf
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Steve K
Sep 28 2015, 09:08 AM
Kinnock was appalling
So is the Tory front bench
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skwirked
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Steve K
Sep 28 2015, 09:08 AM
skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 11:58 PM
He's not set out to blame anyone and inclusiveness is his keyword.

:nono: so you didn't read that economics policy document of his then

Quote:
 
If after 9 or so months it looks like he's really a bit of a hack, fine. but I doubt someone like Kinnock (who I presume you admire) . . ..

Let's stop this right here. Kinnock was appalling
Which one?
Show me just where he's blamed anyone?

And OK, I agree he was awful, glad you think so. ;D
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Steve K
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skwirked
Sep 28 2015, 09:12 AM
Show me just where he's blamed anyone? . .
His economics policy document is full of implied blaming.
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skwirked
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Steve K
Sep 28 2015, 09:29 AM
skwirked
Sep 28 2015, 09:12 AM
Show me just where he's blamed anyone? . .
His economics policy document is full of implied blaming.
He only really blames the Tories, ok so there's a little implied finger pointing at companies and HNW indiciduals minimising their taxes, but it's hardly overt or unfair is it?

There's no really high tax rates spelt out or anything similar.
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Affa
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Steve K
Sep 27 2015, 11:51 PM


He's intelligent and affable but ultimately way too far from the centre. I find most of the extreme fringes to so preach because they really seek people to blame rather than to look for better inclusive ways of building a good and rewarding society.


Unless you are of the opinion that we already do have a 'good and rewarding society', and that there is really nothing wrong to put right, then finding fault/reasons, and attaching blame to them is the proper starting place to not repeat the mistakes of the past.
We have a blame culture that has as its driver political expediency and attempts to woo voters ...... a blame culture that has putting things right and not continuing on the course to ruin is not only right, it is sorely needed.

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Steve K
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Affa
Sep 28 2015, 09:49 AM
Steve K
Sep 27 2015, 11:51 PM


He's intelligent and affable but ultimately way too far from the centre. I find most of the extreme fringes to so preach because they really seek people to blame rather than to look for better inclusive ways of building a good and rewarding society.


Unless you are of the opinion that we already do have a 'good and rewarding society', and that there is really nothing wrong to put right, then finding fault/reasons, and attaching blame to them is the proper starting place to not repeat the mistakes of the past.
We have a blame culture that has as its driver political expediency and attempts to woo voters ...... a blame culture that has putting things right and not continuing on the course to ruin is not only right, it is sorely needed.

Well yes - and I believe a root cause is the short termism the electorate so often take (yes that is blame)

While for most we do have a 'good and rewarding society' there is much to put right and I reject that assertion we have seen from some here that 'most' being OK is good enough. The test to me should be a 'good and rewarding society' for all that try to honestly contribute what they can. And we are far from that, worse we are getting further.

Big business and their political friends have their share of the blame but so often they are just doing what Jo Public asks them to do every day, every week and every election.

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Tytoalba
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Affa
Sep 26 2015, 05:42 PM
Tytoalba
Sep 26 2015, 05:15 PM
Affa
Sep 25 2015, 05:17 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Image
Would that be the Red flag, with the hammer and sickle on it?
Don't you think it's time you Tories found some different 'scares' with which to mask your failings behind? We've had 'it's the Unions fault' war, you won. We've had the 'Labour are Communists' debacle, you lost, and you've gone full circle on the EU is bad, EU is good argument too many times.
Not even the Russians are true communists anymore, so do join us in the 21st century.



They have one policy Affa, and that is to have an open debate on all issues, draw no fixed conclusions, and have no positive policies on any subject other than to reduce austerity measures by borrow or printing more money.
Their attempts to be al things to all people has no substance, ethereal policies that no one can grasp. Other than slagging off the government of course,, which is par for the course at Labour conferences. Its fairytale politics.
Put me right, and define any one of their policies that has purpose and substance. How about on trident, where they have kicked any discussion into the long grass? I watched Caroline Flint, the shadow defence secretary at the conference this morning, and she did speak some sense, but following current government policies
As I pointed out before, access to the true situation is focussing minds but at the same time dividing Labour.
They will never win with their divisive confrontational politics, serving the interests of the minority. They can promise the earth, but are only deceive their supporters that they can do what they say they can.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 27 2015, 09:24 PM
RJD
Sep 27 2015, 07:24 PM

Good to see those here who have identified themselves of friends of the Corbyn Brigade.
I have not noticed anyone in that category. I am merely amused at the sheer terror being shown by the press , media and the Tory party about Corbyn.
If he stands no chance of being Prime Minister why the collective soiling of underwear?
I think it is more shock than terror. I do not think they expected that so many would support such a dangerous loon. Just goes to show how big the portion of absolute idiots there are in the population.

The likes of Corbyn who has never had a proper job, ever fought for an order, had to make sure he can pay Employees wages, in fact done little other than pontificate his objections to just about everything that is necessary to survive in a modern day economy, have absolutely no idea what it takes to survive in this increasingly global economy. He seems to think that industry and commerce do not matter, they are just tits to suck on. best he and others recognise that there is more to the population than those that contribute the least.
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Steve K
Sep 27 2015, 11:46 PM
gansao
Sep 27 2015, 11:19 PM
Steve K
Sep 27 2015, 11:10 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep


Unless you are pushing towards a cliff.
Not if you're trying to push something off a cliff


Depends what it is that you are pushing off the Cliff.
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Tytoalba
Sep 28 2015, 10:10 AM
Affa
Sep 26 2015, 05:42 PM
Tytoalba
Sep 26 2015, 05:15 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Image
Don't you think it's time you Tories found some different 'scares' with which to mask your failings behind? We've had 'it's the Unions fault' war, you won. We've had the 'Labour are Communists' debacle, you lost, and you've gone full circle on the EU is bad, EU is good argument too many times.
Not even the Russians are true communists anymore, so do join us in the 21st century.



They have one policy Affa, and that is to have an open debate on all issues, draw no fixed conclusions, and have no positive policies on any subject other than to reduce austerity measures by borrow or printing more money.
Their attempts to be al things to all people has no substance, ethereal policies that no one can grasp. Other than slagging off the government of course,, which is par for the course at Labour conferences. Its fairytale politics.
Put me right, and define any one of their policies that has purpose and substance. How about on trident, where they have kicked any discussion into the long grass? I watched Caroline Flint, the shadow defence secretary at the conference this morning, and she did speak some sense, but following current government policies
As I pointed out before, access to the true situation is focussing minds but at the same time dividing Labour.
They will never win with their divisive confrontational politics, serving the interests of the minority. They can promise the earth, but are only deceive their supporters that they can do what they say they can.


You and the likes of you have one policy regarding Corbyn and that is to spout negative propaganda to support your fear of him. No matter if its assumptions, conjecture or downright lies.
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Steve K
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gansao
Sep 28 2015, 03:53 PM
Steve K
Sep 27 2015, 11:46 PM
gansao
Sep 27 2015, 11:19 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Not if you're trying to push something off a cliff


Depends what it is that you are pushing off the Cliff.
so many jokes, so few postable
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Deleted User
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Steve K
Sep 28 2015, 07:29 PM
gansao
Sep 28 2015, 03:53 PM
Steve K
Sep 27 2015, 11:46 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep


Depends what it is that you are pushing off the Cliff.
so many jokes, so few postable


I can only think of one about pulling off a Cliff.  :o
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Tigger
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RJD
Sep 28 2015, 10:20 AM
papasmurf
Sep 27 2015, 09:24 PM
RJD
Sep 27 2015, 07:24 PM

Good to see those here who have identified themselves of friends of the Corbyn Brigade.
I have not noticed anyone in that category. I am merely amused at the sheer terror being shown by the press , media and the Tory party about Corbyn.
If he stands no chance of being Prime Minister why the collective soiling of underwear?
I think it is more shock than terror. I do not think they expected that so many would support such a dangerous loon. Just goes to show how big the portion of absolute idiots there are in the population.

The likes of Corbyn who has never had a proper job, ever fought for an order, had to make sure he can pay Employees wages, in fact done little other than pontificate his objections to just about everything that is necessary to survive in a modern day economy, have absolutely no idea what it takes to survive in this increasingly global economy. He seems to think that industry and commerce do not matter, they are just tits to suck on. best he and others recognise that there is more to the population than those that contribute the least.
The usual jumble of mindless drivel laced with far to many tedious cliches.

Of course the Tory party does not want to enter into a proper debate with what is now being proposed, because they will not have convincing answers, instead we got the now pathetic response that the LABOUR PARTY IS A THREAT TO BRITISH FAMILIES. Ok all you right wing retards you can come out from behind the sofa and change your shitty pants now.

Now what was this threat to British families, hint it's a threat to parasites and those who refuse to pay their way despite enjoying what this country has to offer.

What was proposed was a Robin Hood tax on socially useless trading, altering the remit of the Bank of England so it is not just focussed on pumping up property prices and not bothering to include it in it's other remit, tackling inflation, and finally ensuring tax loopholes are properly closed.

And the Tory party claims this is a threat to working families.............Pricks.........  ::)
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Tytoalba
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gansao
Sep 28 2015, 03:56 PM
Tytoalba
Sep 28 2015, 10:10 AM
Affa
Sep 26 2015, 05:42 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Image
They have one policy Affa, and that is to have an open debate on all issues, draw no fixed conclusions, and have no positive policies on any subject other than to reduce austerity measures by borrow or printing more money.
Their attempts to be al things to all people has no substance, ethereal policies that no one can grasp. Other than slagging off the government of course,, which is par for the course at Labour conferences. Its fairytale politics.
Put me right, and define any one of their policies that has purpose and substance. How about on trident, where they have kicked any discussion into the long grass? I watched Caroline Flint, the shadow defence secretary at the conference this morning, and she did speak some sense, but following current government policies
As I pointed out before, access to the true situation is focussing minds but at the same time dividing Labour.
They will never win with their divisive confrontational politics, serving the interests of the minority. They can promise the earth, but are only deceive their supporters that they can do what they say they can.


You and the likes of you have one policy regarding Corbyn and that is to spout negative propaganda to support your fear of him. No matter if its assumptions, conjecture or downright lies.
Corbin and his shadow cabinet members speak for themselves. They may be consulting a lot, but haven't yet come out with a definable policy. Why blame me when the problem lies with them in not making things clear? There has been a lot of popular rhetoric, and the usual soundbites, but no substance.
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Rich
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Tytoalba
Sep 28 2015, 10:10 PM
gansao
Sep 28 2015, 03:56 PM
Tytoalba
Sep 28 2015, 10:10 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Image


You and the likes of you have one policy regarding Corbyn and that is to spout negative propaganda to support your fear of him. No matter if its assumptions, conjecture or downright lies.
Corbin and his shadow cabinet members speak for themselves. They may be consulting a lot, but haven't yet come out with a definable policy. Why blame me when the problem lies with them in not making things clear? There has been a lot of popular rhetoric, and the usual soundbites, but no substance.
But Tyto, that is par for the course where Labour are concerned.....all wind and piss, but no action.
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RJD
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Sep 28 2015, 07:39 PM
RJD
Sep 28 2015, 10:20 AM
papasmurf
Sep 27 2015, 09:24 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I think it is more shock than terror. I do not think they expected that so many would support such a dangerous loon. Just goes to show how big the portion of absolute idiots there are in the population.

The likes of Corbyn who has never had a proper job, ever fought for an order, had to make sure he can pay Employees wages, in fact done little other than pontificate his objections to just about everything that is necessary to survive in a modern day economy, have absolutely no idea what it takes to survive in this increasingly global economy. He seems to think that industry and commerce do not matter, they are just tits to suck on. best he and others recognise that there is more to the population than those that contribute the least.
The usual jumble of mindless drivel laced with far to many tedious cliches.

Of course the Tory party does not want to enter into a proper debate with what is now being proposed, because they will not have convincing answers, instead we got the now pathetic response that the LABOUR PARTY IS A THREAT TO BRITISH FAMILIES. Ok all you right wing retards you can come out from behind the sofa and change your shitty pants now.

Now what was this threat to British families, hint it's a threat to parasites and those who refuse to pay their way despite enjoying what this country has to offer.

What was proposed was a Robin Hood tax on socially useless trading, altering the remit of the Bank of England so it is not just focussed on pumping up property prices and not bothering to include it in it's other remit, tackling inflation, and finally ensuring tax loopholes are properly closed.

And the Tory party claims this is a threat to working families.............Pricks.........  ::)
What is there to discuss? Their stated economic policies are just plain stupid. Not really worthy of debate among adults. Intervention and nationalisation solves nothing, it makes the situation a lot worse and additional costs will need to be covered somehow. That "somehow" is the Moonshine of additional growth (by magic) and the famous big fat tit of corporate tax fraud (a perpetual joke). By the way increasing taxes on the middle income groups will go down like a lead balloon.

People like you, the fantasists, forget that the British, the Germans, the French, the Americans, the Chinese etc. are two thirds pro a capitalist market place and around one third the Usual idiots who believe that somehow by some trick they are able to step around the reality of how the economics of that market place works. Yep a bit of euphoria among the Ignorati who have new faces at the top of a humbled Political Party, but that will not translate into votes at the Ballot Box. Educated people easily see through the BS promulgated by that bunch of Spite and Envy Nerds.

Yes if I saw a Corbynista on fire I would p155 on him and request he be immediately sectioned.

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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 29 2015, 07:37 AM
What is there to discuss? Their stated economic policies are just plain stupid. Not really worthy of debate among adults.
RJD your really should widen your sources of information. (Seriously.)
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 29 2015, 07:44 AM
RJD
Sep 29 2015, 07:37 AM
What is there to discuss? Their stated economic policies are just plain stupid. Not really worthy of debate among adults.
RJD your really should widen your sources of information. (Seriously.)
Seriously I do not. We have had a well established Loon Brigade in the UK all my life and they are, even with improved education, not going to disappear. We just have to put up with them.
I always find it amusing that the Loon Brigade always claim that attempts at imposing Socialism on populations, when it fails, failed because it was not true proper Socialism. Clearly true Socialism, for them, is the variety that works. No point in chasing Moonbeams as no variety has or ever will work for the benefit of the majority of people. Only Capitalism does that. So best regulate Capitalism to work for the benefit of the majority, optimise it. Put away those silly dreams where people will work efficiently and effectively because it is, after all, in their interest to do so. They don't.

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RJD
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Corbyn insists that facts are important, so when he talks of “Tory economic failure”, why does he not mention "current economic growth, record levels of employment, rising real wages and lower taxes for millions of low-paid workers"? (plagiarised from the Torygraph)

Seems to me that Corbyn is talking Old Labour politics to that merry band of traditional clients; namely welfare claimants, council tenants and unionised public sector employees. He will not find the votes he needs in that pond.

What did Corbyn have to say about the Public Sector Deficit or the mountain of public or private debt or about our humongous current account trade deficit, the largest every recorded by the UK in peacetime and the largest of any of the G20 countries? Not a lot! Corbyn ignores the fact that the UK economy is on a knife edge and stupidly calls for political control over interest rates and forcing the BofE to become a Money Tree. Yep Corbyn is an empty vessel that makes music to the left wing fringe Loons and has not one inkling of the risks he proposes.
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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 08:15 AM
Corbyn insists that facts are important, so when he talks of “Tory economic failure”, why does he not mention "current economic growth, record levels of employment, rising real wages and lower taxes for millions of low-paid workers"? (plagiarised from the Torygraph)

Because the reality is somewhat different to the Torygraph spin.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 30 2015, 08:22 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 08:15 AM
Corbyn insists that facts are important, so when he talks of “Tory economic failure”, why does he not mention "current economic growth, record levels of employment, rising real wages and lower taxes for millions of low-paid workers"? (plagiarised from the Torygraph)

Because the reality is somewhat different to the Torygraph spin.
Sorry but these are based on ONS data. Clearly such if it does not suit your weird dogma is also spin. I know you have access to information that if you were to share with us would contravene the Official Secrets Act, that proves that the State and ONS are conspiring against us to defraud millions of low paid workers and those on benefits to make the top 10% even richer. It is rather unfortunate that you cannot share your information as ONS are having field day showing that that group are providing and increased share of income taxes. And again, as we saw yesterday, there appears to be little or no evidence that there has been any changes of significance in the so-called Wealth Gap during the last 25 years. So unless you let us into your secrets it leaves one to claim that you are peddling Red Nag myths again.



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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 08:31 AM
Sorry but these are based on ONS data.
"Based" is not the same as ALL of the ONS data and not just the bits that fit the Torygraph agenda.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 30 2015, 08:38 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 08:31 AM
Sorry but these are based on ONS data.
"Based" is not the same as ALL of the ONS data and not just the bits that fit the Torygraph agenda.
Not necessary to include all of ONS data only that appertaining to the current situation which fully supports the claim. Mr Smurf it is a myth that the UK is living in some Victorian poverty situation where the Masters are whipping the flesh off the backs of Workers. Time for you to travel to the 21st C.

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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 09:36 AM
Not necessary to include all of ONS data only that appertaining to the current situation which fully supports the claim.


The fully supporting the claim is the spin. The full ONS data does not.
Edited by papasmurf, Sep 30 2015, 09:47 AM.
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Steve K
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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 09:36 AM
papasmurf
Sep 30 2015, 08:38 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 08:31 AM
Sorry but these are based on ONS data.
"Based" is not the same as ALL of the ONS data and not just the bits that fit the Torygraph agenda.
Not necessary to include all of ONS data only that appertaining to the current situation which fully supports the claim. Mr Smurf it is a myth that the UK is living in some Victorian poverty situation where the Masters are whipping the flesh off the backs of Workers. Time for you to travel to the 21st C.

But here's the issues

yes total employed is up but when you look at total British employed it is stagnant

yes average wages are up but as your own recent thread shows that is only really for those able to be IT specialists, accountants etc

So the economy the Tories have built is actually growing an underclass and one that is having a series of crude collateral casualty creating measures applied to it to cut welfare spend

In a word: nightmarish
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Rich
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Steve K
Sep 30 2015, 09:53 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 09:36 AM
papasmurf
Sep 30 2015, 08:38 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Not necessary to include all of ONS data only that appertaining to the current situation which fully supports the claim. Mr Smurf it is a myth that the UK is living in some Victorian poverty situation where the Masters are whipping the flesh off the backs of Workers. Time for you to travel to the 21st C.

But here's the issues

yes total employed is up but when you look at total British employed it is stagnant

yes average wages are up but as your own recent thread shows that is only really for those able to be IT specialists, accountants etc

So the economy the Tories have built is actually growing an underclass and one that is having a series of crude collateral casualty creating measures applied to it to cut welfare spend

In a word: nightmarish
With all due respect to your reply Steve, if people find themselves unable to compete in the medium to high end level employment stakes then surely the problem stems from them either not paying attention whilst recieving free education or the education regimen not preparing students for the needs of the 21st century, if all that is left for them is low end unskilled positions then that is not the fault of employers who are in business to make profits or the fault of government/s as the NUT etc have resisted all attempts to upgrade education standards, for instance NL found it more convenient to "dumb down" exam requirements in order to get higher pass rate percentages, Michael Gove was removed from office for being too progressive, as was Frank Field in his portfolio for welfare, it seems to me that unions are frightened to death of change correlated to present needs, perhaps it is because teachers themselves are not properly equipped to teach modern subjects.

Then again the present day class sizes do not help...so many variables and opinions that the real causes of low wages are lost in debate .
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Steve K
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Rich
Sep 30 2015, 10:13 AM
With all due respect to your reply Steve, if people find themselves unable to compete in the medium to high end level employment stakes then surely the problem stems from them either not paying attention whilst recieving free education or the education regimen not preparing students for the needs of the 21st century, if all that is left for them is low end unskilled positions then that is not the fault of employers who are in business to make profits or the fault of government/s as the NUT etc have resisted all attempts to upgrade education standards, for instance NL found it more convenient to "dumb down" exam requirements in order to get higher pass rate percentages, Michael Gove was removed from office for being too progressive, as was Frank Field in his portfolio for welfare, it seems to me that unions are frightened to death of change correlated to present needs, perhaps it is because teachers themselves are not properly equipped to teach modern subjects.

Then again the present day class sizes do not help...so many variables and opinions that the real causes of low wages are lost in debate .
I was not blaming employers

"surely the problem stems from them either not paying attention whilst recieving free education or the education regimen not preparing students for the needs of the 21st century,"

:banghead:

But you forget that half the population are below median IQ and no matter how much attention they pay or how perfect the education system is, you cannot change that. What we can change/mitigate is the way society only really wants to create jobs for those of above average abilities. If we do't then we will have built an evil world that will be destroyed by the evil behaviours such engenders.

And the biggest :banghead: is the left leaning parties and their supporters have been the ones most pursuing the policies that lead us down this road to doom
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