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Leaving Lab for LDs 'like quitting Beatles for Bananarama tribute act'; Deputy leader casts scorn on Tim Farron’s suggestions.
Topic Started: Sep 21 2015, 11:00 AM (252 Views)
skwirked
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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/21/leaving-labour-for-lib-dems-like-quitting-beatles-for-bananarama-tribute-act-watson

Love this bit.

Quote:
 
The Lib Dem leader said it was not his job to be a “home wrecker” for Labour MPs, but to “provide a home for liberals and social democrats wherever they may currently be”. He refused to go into more detail about the conversations he had had, saying it would be “indecent”.

Farron first hinted he’d had conversations with Labour MPs thinking of defecting in an interview with the Evening Standard last week, saying he was being called on to play the role of agony aunt. Speaking to the BBC’s Andrew Marr show on Sunday, Farron confirmed that more than two MPs had been in contact.

Despite Farron’s comments, peer and former Lib Dem MP Lady Tonge told the Sunday Times that she was considering defecting to Labour because Corbyn’s honest politics were “a breath of fresh air”, claiming that lots of Lib Dems were thinking of doing the same.

Tonge, a former MP for Richmond Park, is still a Lib Dem party member but left the parliamentary group in 2012 after refusing to apologise for saying Israel “is not going to be there for ever”.


!jk! Business as usual for the lib dumbs; a total own goal.
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Steve K
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If Clegg is said to have crippled the LibDems, Farron is likely to kill them so idiotic and slimy he affects to be.

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Alberich
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Perhaps it's more of rats leaving a sinking ship?
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skwirked
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If they could name a single lab mp then praps.
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Tigger
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Funnily enough and given the thread title Farron has already tried his hand at pop stardom and failed.

Still, the World likes a trier.
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skwirked
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Tigger
Sep 21 2015, 06:12 PM
Funnily enough and given the thread title Farron has already tried his hand at pop stardom and failed.

Still, the World likes a trier.
Trying to be less of a slimey idiot would be a great start.

I think the world would appreciate that a lot.
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Jessamy Bride
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I don't think many will leave given that the policies Corbyn was elected on seem to have been adjusted to suit the party.
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Jessamy Bride
Sep 21 2015, 07:14 PM
I don't think many will leave given that the policies Corbyn was elected on seem to have been adjusted to suit the party.


What the inclusive, consensus politics stuff, embracing all sides of the party? That sort of stuff?
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Jessamy Bride
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Yep....all the stuff he wasn't elected on.
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Jessamy Bride
Sep 21 2015, 07:27 PM
Yep....all the stuff he wasn't elected on.


Really? His views are very clear but he did not stipulate exactly what policies would be pursued iirc.
Anyway what do you not understand about inclusive and consensus( as well as a pledge to embracing all sides of the party) that makes you so confused as to think that he was elected on sticking rigidly to his collective ideals?
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skwirked
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gansao
Sep 21 2015, 07:36 PM
Jessamy Bride
Sep 21 2015, 07:27 PM
Yep....all the stuff he wasn't elected on.


Really? His views are very clear but he did not stipulate exactly what policies would be pursued iirc.
Anyway what do you not understand about inclusive and consensus( as well as a pledge to embracing all sides of the party) that makes you so confused as to think that he was elected on sticking rigidly to his collective ideals?
I'm sure the papers have said that his is the communist manifesto.

That means it must be true, comradeskij.
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Deleted User
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http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/08/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leader-how-i-will-unify-mps-rebuild-party-and-win-2020

Some people seem to be confused with what corbyn promised and tory propaganda...funny that




We need to draw on all the talents and ideas in Labour, no matter which wing of the party they come from


All wings of the party need to reflect on the lessons for us in 2015. We can win back support from Conservative commuters in the south who are fed up with rip-off railways and win back support from those who voted for parties that portrayed themselves as anti-establishment – the SNP, Ukip, the Greens, and so on – by showing that we are not afraid to debate difficult issues such as welfare and the economy and take on Tory myths. We will do so with humanity and honesty and by offering practical policies that resolve problems, not demonising individuals. Recent polls suggest that this approach can work, with both YouGov in London and Survation’s UK-wide polls showing that I am the candidate who can reach out to all voters and former non-voters.


I believe in a different kind of politics, more open and inclusive, raising the debate beyond the intrigue of rival personalities.


We need to draw on all the talents and ideas, no matter which wing of the party they come from. The way we settle disagreements must be through democracy, not back-room deals or leadership diktat.


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Jessamy Bride
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Quote:
 
sticking rigidly to his collective ideals?


New politics?...breath of fresh air?

Exactly how "new" the manifesto will be.... remains to be seen
but he has to run policies which are fit for government.
...and that means much of his personal ideals will be tempered.
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skwirked
Sep 21 2015, 07:38 PM
gansao
Sep 21 2015, 07:36 PM
Jessamy Bride
Sep 21 2015, 07:27 PM
Yep....all the stuff he wasn't elected on.


Really? His views are very clear but he did not stipulate exactly what policies would be pursued iirc.
Anyway what do you not understand about inclusive and consensus( as well as a pledge to embracing all sides of the party) that makes you so confused as to think that he was elected on sticking rigidly to his collective ideals?
I'm sure the papers have said that his is the communist manifesto.

That means it must be true, comradeskij.


Indeed, Corbyn has always been forthright with his collectivist views. However as a genuine collectivist he advocates inclusive and consensus politics.
Trouble is that we have forgotten the notion of the principal of first among equals for our leaders.
The sheeples need a Maggie or a Tony to lead them and a hateful rag or two to extrapolate ( false) truths.
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skwirked
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Good article.

The stuff about real innovation happening at local gov level was interesting.
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Jessamy Bride
Sep 21 2015, 07:44 PM
Quote:
 
sticking rigidly to his collective ideals?


New politics?...breath of fresh air?

Exactly how "new" the manifesto will be.... remains to be seen
but he has to run policies which are fit for government.
...and that means much of his personal ideals will be tempered.


And thats a bad thing?
You still seem to be confused about concensus and inclusive.
You are right it does remain to be seen and it would be a great help if people did not make knee jerk assumptions about him that are plainly wrong then instead of acknowledging that they ARE wrong , post a couple of points that are bloody obvious .
Yes it does remain to be seen.
Yes he will have to run policies that are doable ( which I assume you meant by ' fit for government')
and he has shown that he is willing to temper his pursuit of his personal ideas already.
So what?
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Tigger
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Jessamy Bride
Sep 21 2015, 07:44 PM
Quote:
 
sticking rigidly to his collective ideals?


New politics?...breath of fresh air?

Exactly how "new" the manifesto will be.... remains to be seen
but he has to run policies which are fit for government.
...and that means much of his personal ideals will be tempered.
Can you honestly say that another dose of neo liberalism is just the medicine we need?

No, and an ever increasing number of people are beginning to realise it, the boomers are literally dying off and the young will inhabit the wasteland they intend to leave behind.

We need something new, and quickly.
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RoofGardener
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"Leaving Labour for Lib Dems 'like quitting Beatles for Bananarama tribute act' "

Hmm.. well heres a thought.

Bananaram tribute acts still exist.. you can go to their concerts.

the Beatles no longer exist.. they don't play live anymore, and have no influence over events.
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Tigger
Sep 21 2015, 07:58 PM
Jessamy Bride
Sep 21 2015, 07:44 PM
Quote:
 
sticking rigidly to his collective ideals?


New politics?...breath of fresh air?

Exactly how "new" the manifesto will be.... remains to be seen
but he has to run policies which are fit for government.
...and that means much of his personal ideals will be tempered.
Can you honestly say that another dose of neo liberalism is just the medicine we need?

No, and an ever increasing number of people are beginning to realise it, the boomers are literally dying off and the young will inhabit the wasteland they intend to leave behind.

We need something new, and quickly.


I've said it before and I will repeat it.
Its not Corbyn that we need it is the Corbyn narrative.
We need to question the Tory agenda of austerity and ( as you point out) neo liberalism.
We need to stop hating public services as a pre requisite of debate.
In fact we need to take democracy back to the people...sounds like a sound bite but its not.
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RoofGardener
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gansao
Sep 21 2015, 08:07 PM
..... In fact we need to take democracy back to the people...
to paraphase Churchill... have you SEEN the people recently ? It's not a pretty sight.
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RoofGardener
Sep 21 2015, 08:07 PM
"Leaving Labour for Lib Dems 'like quitting Beatles for Bananarama tribute act' "

Hmm.. well heres a thought.

Bananaram tribute acts still exist.. you can go to their concerts.

the Beatles no longer exist.. they don't play live anymore, and have no influence over events.


What? The Beatles still resonate in British culture. Bananarama resonates in church halls at best.
Anyway it was not meant to be a parallel comparison . I think most people realise that.
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skwirked
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RoofGardener
Sep 21 2015, 08:07 PM
"Leaving Labour for Lib Dems 'like quitting Beatles for Bananarama tribute act' "

Hmm.. well heres a thought.

Bananaram tribute acts still exist.. you can go to their concerts.

the Beatles no longer exist.. they don't play live anymore, and have no influence over events.
"have no influence over events"

You mean except for GM's pioneering in the field of music tech, endless tributes bands and whatever, a record label that found talent like James Taylor, endless solo material, people still love them beyond reason etc.

And one of them is still alive.

;)
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skwirked
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RoofGardener
Sep 21 2015, 08:09 PM
gansao
Sep 21 2015, 08:07 PM
..... In fact we need to take democracy back to the people...
to paraphase Churchill... have you SEEN the people recently ? It's not a pretty sight.
!clp!
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RoofGardener
Sep 21 2015, 08:09 PM
gansao
Sep 21 2015, 08:07 PM
..... In fact we need to take democracy back to the people...
to paraphase Churchill... have you SEEN the people recently ? It's not a pretty sight.


Indeed Churchill was a real throwback to a malicious elite with a sense of entitlement. Just like the Tories.
Well done for pointing that out.
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Jessamy Bride
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Quote:
 
We need something new, and quickly.


Do we?..... We have growth...new jobs....inflation is low.... and the deficit is getting reduced.
Fasted growing country in Europe.

Can't bugger up the economy because you fancy something different.

What are the new policies going to add to this?

Hope its not more borrow and spend ....because that didn't work last time.
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skwirked
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That is a funny and apt quote though.

He had his moments, when he wasnt busy being a tyrant.
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Tigger
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Jessamy Bride
Sep 21 2015, 08:15 PM
Quote:
 
We need something new, and quickly.


Do we?..... We have growth...new jobs....inflation is low.... and the deficit is getting reduced.
Fasted growing country in Europe.

Can't bugger up the economy because you fancy something different.

What are the new policies going to add to this?

Hope its not more borrow and spend ....because that didn't work last time.
You are joking right? I can only assume you are either very naive or under twenty years of age :facepalm:

We have a debt fuelled housing boom with now record amounts of unsecured borrowing, with that "money" being spunked on imported tat, you most probably missed the collapse in our exports last month and the sharp increase in imports, our productivity is now the worst in the G7 and wages alone will not be able to service the debts vast numbers of people are currently running up, these people have probably been as naive as you and think all this is perfectly fine and nothing to worry about because the government told you everything is now ok again.....

Give me strength............  ::)
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Jessamy Bride
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We had a debt fuelled housing boom during the last Labour government tigger

So what is going to be different?

Austerity won't sway the masses.... it will be largely over by the next GE anyway.
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skwirked
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Jessamy Bride
Sep 21 2015, 08:36 PM
We had a debt fuelled housing boom during the last Labour government tigger

So what is going to be different?

Austerity won't sway the masses.... it will be largely over by the next GE anyway.
And if you believe that, please buy some snake oil to go with.
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Jessamy Bride
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I think the game plan is.... Austerity will be over......and everything in the garden will be fixed and rosey.......right before the next GE
so that the Tory's stay in government.

Labour need imo....a charismatic leader and sound economic polices to compete with that.
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Tigger
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Jessamy Bride
Sep 21 2015, 08:36 PM
We had a debt fuelled housing boom during the last Labour government tigger

So what is going to be different?

Austerity won't sway the masses.... it will be largely over by the next GE anyway.


And we learn't how to inflate housing bubbles during the Thatcher years, remember now?

How about a German style economy that makes things and exports them rather than the serial bollox of money shuffling and debt bubbles? Although that would mean proper investment and some real work for a change, and we already have austerity.......  ::)
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C-too
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Tigger
Sep 21 2015, 07:58 PM
Jessamy Bride
Sep 21 2015, 07:44 PM
Quote:
 
sticking rigidly to his collective ideals?


New politics?...breath of fresh air?

Exactly how "new" the manifesto will be.... remains to be seen
but he has to run policies which are fit for government.
...and that means much of his personal ideals will be tempered.
Can you honestly say that another dose of neo liberalism is just the medicine we need?

No, and an ever increasing number of people are beginning to realise it, the boomers are literally dying off and the young will inhabit the wasteland they intend to leave behind.

We need something new, and quickly.
Neo liberalism is dead. Despite the fact that for some time it appeared to be very successful, it died when Thatcher's ---- Deregulation / Financial Services / Free Market Economy ---- hit the buffers in 2008.
Despite the misplaced (hindsight) adulation Thatcher received, there is no way any opposition to the Tories will touch that madness again for a generation or more.

What we need in politics is a higher level of honesty and objectivity, what little we had has virtually disappeared since 2008.

The last thing we need is a heart on the sleeve naïve socialist thinker.
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Pro Veritas
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Jessamy Bride
Sep 21 2015, 08:36 PM
Austerity won't sway the masses.... it will be largely over by the next GE anyway.
Are people so out of touch with reality really allowed to teach our children?

Explains a lot.

austerity will be with us for a generation, the Conservative "growth" you think is real is built upon record levels of borrowing that even labour never dreamed of. What actual growth there is is confined to the the housing sector, with a new bubble (partially funded by dirty money being "cleaned" by our oh-so-reformed banking sector) that will burst and leave a bigger fallout than the last burst housing bubble.

More taxpayer money will be flushed down the pan to save banks, and then that money recouped by cutting public services to the bone and further demonising the poor and vulnerable.

What is so alarming is that you seem to be unaware of this.

All The Best
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Rich
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Tigger
Sep 21 2015, 07:58 PM
Jessamy Bride
Sep 21 2015, 07:44 PM
Quote:
 
sticking rigidly to his collective ideals?


New politics?...breath of fresh air?

Exactly how "new" the manifesto will be.... remains to be seen
but he has to run policies which are fit for government.
...and that means much of his personal ideals will be tempered.
Can you honestly say that another dose of neo liberalism is just the medicine we need?

No, and an ever increasing number of people are beginning to realise it, the boomers are literally dying off and the young will inhabit the wasteland they intend to leave behind.

We need something new, and quickly.
You may well be right, but it seems to me that the Corbynites will go the same way as Tsipras, at the end of the day you cannot spend what you do not have and to borrow on behalf of the next generation to fulfil todays aspirations is just not on.
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Cymru
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Jessamy Bride
Sep 21 2015, 07:44 PM
Quote:
 
sticking rigidly to his collective ideals?


New politics?...breath of fresh air?

Exactly how "new" the manifesto will be.... remains to be seen
There is nothing new under the sun.

Thatcher's new politics were just a rehash of the classical liberalism which voters rejected in the early 1900s.
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papasmurf
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Jessamy Bride
Sep 21 2015, 08:36 PM

Austerity won't sway the masses.... it will be largely over by the next GE anyway.
You really do have to be joking.
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Steve K
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Tigger
Sep 21 2015, 09:47 PM
Jessamy Bride
Sep 21 2015, 08:36 PM
We had a debt fuelled housing boom during the last Labour government tigger

So what is going to be different?

Austerity won't sway the masses.... it will be largely over by the next GE anyway.


And we learn't how to inflate housing bubbles during the Thatcher years, remember now?

How about a German style economy that makes things and exports them rather than the serial bollox of money shuffling and debt bubbles? Although that would mean proper investment and some real work for a change, and we already have austerity.......  ::)
And just how are you going to achieve the needed land borders with the world's biggest market that is what ensures volume manufacturing is still a going concern in Germany?
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Pro Veritas
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Rich
Sep 22 2015, 12:10 AM
You may well be right, but it seems to me that the Corbynites will go the same way as Tsipras, at the end of the day you cannot spend what you do not have and to borrow on behalf of the next generation to fulfil todays aspirations is just not on.
But that is exactly what the Tories have done and are doing.

The Tories borrowed more in 3 years than NuLab borrowed in 13.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/21/uk-borrowing-_n_4316084.html

All The Best

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skwirked
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Pro Veritas
Sep 21 2015, 10:16 PM
Jessamy Bride
Sep 21 2015, 08:36 PM
Austerity won't sway the masses.... it will be largely over by the next GE anyway.
Are people so out of touch with reality really allowed to teach our children?

Explains a lot.

austerity will be with us for a generation, the Conservative "growth" you think is real is built upon record levels of borrowing that even labour never dreamed of. What actual growth there is is confined to the the housing sector, with a new bubble (partially funded by dirty money being "cleaned" by our oh-so-reformed banking sector) that will burst and leave a bigger fallout than the last burst housing bubble.

More taxpayer money will be flushed down the pan to save banks, and then that money recouped by cutting public services to the bone and further demonising the poor and vulnerable.

What is so alarming is that you seem to be unaware of this.

All The Best
A teacher?

That means she(?) has seen Gove's destruction of education first-hand and still votes for these guys.

Turkeys voting for xmas I tell you.

At the rate we are going, there is going to be another crash. All the warning lights are flashing hard enough to make you fit, but hardly anyone seems to see it.
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Affa
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Rich
Sep 22 2015, 12:10 AM
........ at the end of the day you cannot spend what you do not have and to borrow on behalf of the next generation to fulfil todays aspirations is just not on.

Tell that to George Osborne, will you. He's forgotten he ever said it himself.



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