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The Temperate Banana Republic.
Topic Started: Sep 21 2015, 06:30 PM (594 Views)
Tigger
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Who is going to rid us of this public school Mafia?

The latest bollocks is a report in several newspapers that quotes an unnamed army general who has apparently said that the armed forces would depose a democratically elected Corbyn government, although sacking thousands of much needed armed forces bods and flogging off various bits of military hardware is not an offence that would induce a coup d' etat, identify this cock in uniform and at the very least fire him.

I cannot be the only one on here who is getting pissed off with the shrill and not very subtle warnings coming from our increasingly corrupt and out of touch establishment?
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skwirked
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Can you just imagine all the dogsbodies going "yeh that bloody commie, get him out!".

It really is like turkeys voting for xmas.
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Deleted User
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Tory black propaganda for the weak kneed. Probably to offset the story that Cameron put his dick in a dead pigs head when he was a student.
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Lewis
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gansao
Sep 21 2015, 06:41 PM
Tory black propaganda for the weak kneed. Probably to offset the story that Cameron put his dick in a dead pigs head when he was a student.
You mean Doris Johnson was performing oral sex with him?
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Lewis
Sep 21 2015, 06:56 PM
gansao
Sep 21 2015, 06:41 PM
Tory black propaganda for the weak kneed. Probably to offset the story that Cameron put his dick in a dead pigs head when he was a student.
You mean Doris Johnson was performing oral sex with him?


I would of thought Boris was a giver not a receiver. ;D
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Steve K
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Tigger
Sep 21 2015, 06:30 PM
Who is going to rid us of this public school Mafia?

The latest bollocks is a report in several newspapers that quotes an unnamed army general who has apparently said that the armed forces would depose a democratically elected Corbyn government, although sacking thousands of much needed armed forces bods and flogging off various bits of military hardware is not an offence that would induce a coup d' etat, identify this cock in uniform and at the very least fire him.

Agreed, what a prat but then some Army generals aren't exactly known for their intellect (to be fairsome are)

FWIW this was the original article in yesterday's Times that the other papers copied

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/National/article1609597.ece

Quote:
 
A senior serving general said the armed forces would take “direct action” to stop a Corbyn government downgrading them and said his victory had been greeted with “wholesale dismay”, even among Labour-supporting soldiers.

“There would be mass resignations at all levels and you would face the very real prospect of an event which would effectively be a mutiny,” the general said. “Feelings are running very high within the armed forces. You would see a major break in convention with senior generals directly and publicly challenging Corbyn over vital important policy decisions such as Trident, pulling out of Nato and any plans to emasculate and shrink the size of the armed forces. The Army just wouldn’t stand for it. The general staff would not allow a prime minister to jeopardise the security of this country and I think people would use whatever means possible, fair or foul to prevent that. You can’t put a maverick in charge of a country’s security.”

The general, who served in Northern Ireland in the 1980s and 1990s, said he and many soldiers were sickened by Corbyn’s admiration for the IRA. More than 730 British troops were killed and 7,000 injured during the Troubles.


But what type of General? I'm guessing Lieutenant General which sounds impressive but is only a 2 Star rank

All smacks of Perrin's Uncle Jimmy


Edited by Steve K, Sep 21 2015, 08:36 PM.
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Tigger
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That series was bordering on genius!

And I'm wondering if this army general will eventually be named, the anti Corbyn one that is, not Jimmy's!

And when is our CJ due back? ;D
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Pro Veritas
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Tigger
Sep 21 2015, 06:30 PM
Who is going to rid us of this public school Mafia?

The latest bollocks is a report in several newspapers that quotes an unnamed army general who has apparently said that the armed forces would depose a democratically elected Corbyn government, although sacking thousands of much needed armed forces bods and flogging off various bits of military hardware is not an offence that would induce a coup d' etat, identify this cock in uniform and at the very least fire him.

I cannot be the only one on here who is getting pissed off with the shrill and not very subtle warnings coming from our increasingly corrupt and out of touch establishment?
IMO this General should be named, stripped of rank, and lose his pension.

That a senior officer in this nation's armed forces should such disregard, and disrespect, for the principles of democracy that our armed forces have (if we are to believe the hype of said senior officers) bled and died to defend around the globe is shocking in the extreme.

He should be named and shamed.

All The Best
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RoofGardener
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Hmmm... this article is attributed to the Sunday Times. However, when you follow the link, you hit a Paywall. The preview text only talks about a mutiny in the cabinet about Trident.

What IS clear is that the original Sunday Times article is not attributed. It cites an 'unamed' Army general.

I'd agree with ProVertias above (and others). The General... if he exists .. is guilty of incitement to mutiny, and must be cashiered immediatly.

There are channels for the Armed Forces to complain to the government.. there is a Permanant Parliamentary Committee to listen to these comments, and to relay them up to the Cabinet Office.

If an individual - of any rank - is unhappy with this arrangement, then they can resign, and THEN talk to the newspapers in their capacity as an "ex" member of the forces. (subject to the terms of the Official Secrets act).

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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Sep 21 2015, 08:21 PM
Hmmm... this article is attributed to the Sunday Times. However, when you follow the link, you hit a Paywall. The preview text only talks about a mutiny in the cabinet about Trident. . . .
I refer you to my post above
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Lewis
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gansao
Sep 21 2015, 07:01 PM
Lewis
Sep 21 2015, 06:56 PM
gansao
Sep 21 2015, 06:41 PM
Tory black propaganda for the weak kneed. Probably to offset the story that Cameron put his dick in a dead pigs head when he was a student.
You mean Doris Johnson was performing oral sex with him?


I would of thought Boris was a giver not a receiver. ;D
Well it could be a BJ all the same it's a bit of a pig!
Edited by Lewis, Sep 22 2015, 07:54 AM.
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Pro Veritas
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So apparently, according to those intent on protecting the establishment, it would be impossible to accurately identify this General.

Bullshit.

Name him, and shame him.

All The Best
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Steve K
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Pro Veritas
Sep 22 2015, 09:02 AM
So apparently, according to those intent on protecting the establishment, it would be impossible to accurately identify this General.

Bullshit.

Name him, and shame him.

All The Best
and just how are you going to do that and maintain a free press?
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Pro Veritas
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Steve K
Sep 22 2015, 09:06 AM
Pro Veritas
Sep 22 2015, 09:02 AM
So apparently, according to those intent on protecting the establishment, it would be impossible to accurately identify this General.

Bullshit.

Name him, and shame him.

All The Best
and just how are you going to do that and maintain a free press?
The Press can already be required to reveal their sources under exceptional circumstances that may pose a threat to national security; I think that a General threatening a coup is just such an exceptional circumstance.

Don't you?

All The Best
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Affa
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No different from TU militancy, except armed mutiny does over stretch their mark.

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skwirked
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Affa
Sep 22 2015, 10:08 AM
No different from TU militancy, except armed mutiny does over stretch their mark.

By TU, do you mean that awful clothing range? They do the kinds of awful jumpers that trade unionists used to wear.

Yes the militant jumper-wearers really are a force to be reckoned with nowdays, aren't they. (  ::) )
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papasmurf
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Tigger
Sep 21 2015, 06:30 PM


I cannot be the only one on here who is getting pissed off with the shrill and not very subtle warnings coming from our increasingly corrupt and out of touch establishment?
There is some balance appearing:-

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-09-22/david-camerons-foreign-policy-expertise-questioned-in-lord-ashcrofts-biography/

It quotes General Sir David Richards as telling Mr Cameron that "being in the Combined Cadet Force at Eton" did not qualify him to set tactics for complex military operations
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skwirked
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papasmurf
Sep 22 2015, 10:22 AM
Tigger
Sep 21 2015, 06:30 PM


I cannot be the only one on here who is getting pissed off with the shrill and not very subtle warnings coming from our increasingly corrupt and out of touch establishment?
There is some balance appearing:-

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-09-22/david-camerons-foreign-policy-expertise-questioned-in-lord-ashcrofts-biography/

It quotes General Sir David Richards as telling Mr Cameron that "being in the Combined Cadet Force at Eton" did not qualify him to set tactics for complex military operations
!jk! :facepalm: !clp!
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Alberich
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A large pinch of salt is called for.....best if its big enough to completely bury whoever started this.
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Steve K
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Pro Veritas
Sep 22 2015, 09:25 AM
Steve K
Sep 22 2015, 09:06 AM
Pro Veritas
Sep 22 2015, 09:02 AM
So apparently, according to those intent on protecting the establishment, it would be impossible to accurately identify this General.

Bullshit.

Name him, and shame him.

All The Best
and just how are you going to do that and maintain a free press?
The Press can already be required to reveal their sources under exceptional circumstances that may pose a threat to national security; I think that a General threatening a coup is just such an exceptional circumstance.

Don't you?

All The Best
Well yes it would be but had you actually read the article (and I did use my Times access to copy and paste such above) you would see that he did no such thing

So maybe you need to think this out again.
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Pro Veritas
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Steve K
Sep 22 2015, 12:46 PM
Well yes it would be but had you actually read the article (and I did use my Times access to copy and paste such above) you would see that he did no such thing

So maybe you need to think this out again.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ministry-of-defence-condemn-army-general-behind-jeremy-corbyn-mutiny-threat-10510353.html

From which:

Quote:
 
"You can’t have serving officers effectively threatening a coup against an elected government,” they said. “This general seems to have forgotten that we live in a democracy.” A Ministry of Defence source said it was unacceptable for a serving officer to make political comments about a potential “future government”.


A mutiny of the senior command of the Army, using any means foul or fair, to overthrow an elected government is, under any definition you want to use, a coup.

All The Best
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Steve K
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Pro Veritas
Sep 22 2015, 01:30 PM
Steve K
Sep 22 2015, 12:46 PM
Well yes it would be but had you actually read the article (and I did use my Times access to copy and paste such above) you would see that he did no such thing

So maybe you need to think this out again.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ministry-of-defence-condemn-army-general-behind-jeremy-corbyn-mutiny-threat-10510353.html

From which: . . . .
The most relevant part of that article is it links back to this article

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-army-could-stage-mutiny-under-corbyn-says-senior-serving-general-10509742.html

where the only evidence is

Quote:
 
He told the Sunday Times: . .


So as I said, you have to go by what is in the Times article. I have quoted that and it most certainly does not threaten but instead warns of a risk. BIG difference
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Affa
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Steve K
Sep 22 2015, 02:26 PM

So as I said, you have to go by what is in the Times article. I have quoted that and it most certainly does not threaten but instead warns of a risk. BIG difference
The scent of 'double standards' considering what the reaction to what Alan Yentob said precipitated. A warning he gave was considered a real (by implication) threat ........
Quote:
 

Oh yes I understand the word 'threat'

As in Yentob was implicitly threatening to use his BBC position to cause the government of the day real trouble if they didn't send £3M to Ms Batman to fund her fat salary,

Edited by Affa, Sep 22 2015, 03:18 PM.
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RoofGardener
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Just a side note...

Did you ever wonder why we have a Royal Navy, and a Royal Air Force, but the British Army ?

Apparently it is because neither the Navy or the Air Force have ever mutinied en-masse, whereas the Army has.
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Steve K
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Affa
Sep 22 2015, 03:17 PM
Steve K
Sep 22 2015, 02:26 PM

So as I said, you have to go by what is in the Times article. I have quoted that and it most certainly does not threaten but instead warns of a risk. BIG difference
The scent of 'double standards' considering what the reaction to what Alan Yentob said precipitated. A warning he gave was considered a real (by implication) threat ........
Quote:
 

Oh yes I understand the word 'threat'

As in Yentob was implicitly threatening to use his BBC position to cause the government of the day real trouble if they didn't send £3M to Ms Batman to fund her fat salary,

Clever !clp!

I think there's a difference but I guess many won't
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Affa
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Steve K
Sep 22 2015, 03:42 PM
Affa
Sep 22 2015, 03:17 PM
Steve K
Sep 22 2015, 02:26 PM

So as I said, you have to go by what is in the Times article. I have quoted that and it most certainly does not threaten but instead warns of a risk. BIG difference
The scent of 'double standards' considering what the reaction to what Alan Yentob said precipitated. A warning he gave was considered a real (by implication) threat ........
Quote:
 

Oh yes I understand the word 'threat'

As in Yentob was implicitly threatening to use his BBC position to cause the government of the day real trouble if they didn't send £3M to Ms Batman to fund her fat salary,

Clever !clp!

I think there's a difference but I guess many won't

I guess it must be very difficult to appear to be without bias, to remain politically impartial, when the reality is so different ........
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papasmurf
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RoofGardener
Sep 22 2015, 03:18 PM


Apparently it is because neither the Navy or the Air Force have ever mutinied en-masse, whereas the Army has.
Have you never heard of the Spithead and Nore mutinies?

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Steve K
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Affa
Sep 22 2015, 03:57 PM
Steve K
Sep 22 2015, 03:42 PM
Affa
Sep 22 2015, 03:17 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepThe scent of 'double standards' considering what the reaction to what Alan Yentob said precipitated. A warning he gave was considered a real (by implication) threat ........
Clever !clp!

I think there's a difference but I guess many won't

I guess it must be very difficult to appear to be without bias, to remain politically impartial, when the reality is so different ........
Well maybe I have to spell out the difference then. Yentob a very powerful media figure deliberately lent his name to one, this unnamed general did not. A threat has to have a named force behind it, a warning of a risk does not.

ProV says we should invoke national security to force the papers to reveal who this general is. I say that's poppycock and would in effect be a licence to silence future whistle blowers plus a barely hidden drive to suppress criticism of Corbyn. There is no need to use any such mechanism to discover who was behind Yentob's effort as he freely attached his name to it

So big differences but I've no doubt you'll keep trawling through my posts trying to catch me out. Can I suggest you try getting a life instead.
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Tigger
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I think this thread should become a repository for dodgy establishment dealings.

And hot on the heels (trotters?) of Cameron shagging a dead pig, we have the case of Lord Sewel. Despite admitting to taking cocaine, being filmed doing so AND there being two witnesses, one pissed and the other one with a class A drug on both nipples the police have concluded there is "insufficient evidence to proceed", apparently a search of his flat at a later date with sniffer dogs in attendance failed to discover any trace of cocaine.

So the lesson is clear, if you live on a sink estate and do drugs keep the following information handy just in case, ask the police to tip you off so you can get yourself a good cleaning lady, parrot repeatedly that you are sorry, also mentioning that your family are suffering as well, plus mention that you are really embarrassed and your "career" is over.

What a fucking joke...........  ::)
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Malum Unus
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Tigger
Sep 22 2015, 08:11 PM
I think this thread should become a repository for dodgy establishment dealings.

And hot on the heels (trotters?) of Cameron shagging a dead pig, we have the case of Lord Sewel. Despite admitting to taking cocaine, being filmed doing so AND there being two witnesses, one pissed and the other one with a class A drug on both nipples the police have concluded there is "insufficient evidence to proceed", apparently a search of his flat at a later date with sniffer dogs in attendance failed to discover any trace of cocaine.

So the lesson is clear, if you live on a sink estate and do drugs keep the following information handy just in case, ask the police to tip you off so you can get yourself a good cleaning lady, parrot repeatedly that you are sorry, also mentioning that your family are suffering as well, plus mention that you are really embarrassed and your "career" is over.

What a fucking joke...........  ::)


It's well known that in the UK (and I suspect most of the western world) the law only really applies to the common man.
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RoofGardener
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papasmurf
Sep 22 2015, 06:48 PM
RoofGardener
Sep 22 2015, 03:18 PM


Apparently it is because neither the Navy or the Air Force have ever mutinied en-masse, whereas the Army has.
Have you never heard of the Spithead and Nore mutinies?

No, I hadn't. Thanks for posting that Papa' :thumbsup:

Sooo... that being the case.. why isn't the British Army called the Royal Army ?
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Pro Veritas
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RoofGardener
Sep 22 2015, 08:51 PM
Sooo... that being the case.. why isn't the British Army called the Royal Army ?
https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130119131524AAy8gep

From which:
Quote:
 
Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force were raised and formed under a single Royal Warrant on one day. Whereas the army encompasses many different regts and corps, who were raised by Warrants on different dates, some were granted to have the prefix Royal in their title some were not due to them being raise by individual subscription. Example, Duke of Lancaster's Regt is a Royal regiment, meanwhile The Yorkshire Regt is not.


All The Best
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Affa
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Steve K
Sep 22 2015, 07:07 PM
I've no doubt you'll keep trawling through my posts trying to catch me out. Can I suggest you try getting a life instead.
I'm truly sorry to have upset your sensibilities, to have caused you a little embarrassment. It is not my intention to deter you from expressing your own opinions with conviction, I do enjoy and appreciate reading them. However I am induced to inform you that doing so took far less of my time you spend delving the right-wing media for your own interpretations, analysis, and spin for our consumptions.
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Cymru
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RoofGardener
Sep 22 2015, 08:51 PM
papasmurf
Sep 22 2015, 06:48 PM
RoofGardener
Sep 22 2015, 03:18 PM


Apparently it is because neither the Navy or the Air Force have ever mutinied en-masse, whereas the Army has.
Have you never heard of the Spithead and Nore mutinies?

No, I hadn't. Thanks for posting that Papa' :thumbsup:

Sooo... that being the case.. why isn't the British Army called the Royal Army ?
Doesn't the British Army date its foundation to the raising of the New Model Army by Parliament against the King during the Civil War?
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Affa
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Steve K
Sep 22 2015, 07:07 PM
Affa
Sep 22 2015, 03:57 PM
Steve K
Sep 22 2015, 03:42 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepThe scent of 'double standards' considering what the reaction to what Alan Yentob said precipitated. A warning he gave was considered a real (by implication) threat ........

I guess it must be very difficult to appear to be without bias, to remain politically impartial, when the reality is so different ........
Well maybe I have to spell out the difference then. Yentob a very powerful media figure deliberately lent his name to one, this unnamed general did not. A threat has to have a named force behind it, a warning of a risk does not.

ProV says we should invoke national security to force the papers to reveal who this general is. I say that's poppycock and would in effect be a licence to silence future whistle blowers plus a barely hidden drive to suppress criticism of Corbyn. There is no need to use any such mechanism to discover who was behind Yentob's effort as he freely attached his name to it

So big differences but I've no doubt you'll keep trawling through my posts trying to catch me out. Can I suggest you try getting a life instead.
Whilst I understand why Yentob made his warning, I cannot say why this General made his.
Yentob was addressing the government over its action in removing funding for a charity. His warning was that dong so presented a risk that there could be a precipitation of the sort that led to the 2011 riots. A real possibility (consequence of government action), where the only real debate is whether the risk is small or great.
The warning that the general made was based on nothing more than an obscure possibility of Corbyn forming a government in five years time ..... Two very different propositions. The first a consequence of government action the second a response to what the electorate may or may not do in years ahead.
The first an attempt to enlighten government, the second was pure mischief, and interference in politics that he has no right to make.

Your defence of it (military comment) does you no credit!



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Steve K
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Affa
Sep 23 2015, 05:25 PM
. . Your defence of it (military comment) does you no credit!



Can I suggest you should have read post 6 before you posted such trash.
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Affa
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Steve K
Sep 23 2015, 10:16 PM
Affa
Sep 23 2015, 05:25 PM
. . Your defence of it (military comment) does you no credit!



Can I suggest you should have read post 6 before you posted such trash.

I replied to post 22 ........ and there is no need for the insult, I remind.

Nowhere have I suggested that the general made a 'threat', I called it mischief.


!mod! removed ad-hom
Edited by johnofgwent, Sep 25 2015, 05:38 AM.
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Steve K
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Affa
Sep 23 2015, 11:35 PM
Steve K
Sep 23 2015, 10:16 PM
Affa
Sep 23 2015, 05:25 PM
. . Your defence of it (military comment) does you no credit!



Can I suggest you should have read post 6 before you posted such trash.

I replied to post 22 ........ and there is no need for the insult, I remind.

Nowhere have I suggested that the general made a 'threat', I called it mischief. You however do not not have my consistency ......... your double standards are most obviously based on a political preference.
Well I think we're at the stage when someone with authority should look at your posts about me

Seems I have to explain that calling you post "trash" and supplying a supporting reference is attacking content but calling a poster "You however do not not have my consistency ......... your double standards are most obviously based on a political preference." following your "I guess it must be very difficult to appear to be without bias, to remain politically impartial, when the reality is so different" and other comments are blatant use of ad homs.

To the point in hand: had you read my post 6 you will have seen I "Agreed" with the OP's " identify this cock in uniform and at the very least fire him." I then went on to compare him with the risible character in Perrin. Hardly the defence you accuse me of.

A new line of debate emerged in posts 8, 12 to 14 and 20 as to whether we should use the courts to force the Times to give up the identity of this man because he was said to be "a General threatening a coup". My view was and is that that is highly fanciful and would be thrown out of court in minutes because the on the record words (and not other papers' extrapolation of same) only say he was warning of such a coup. Such imho would be protected under the law but that opinion could be intelligently debated.

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Affa
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All perfectly ok ........ but my post wasn't about the general, but about how you called for Yentob to be sacked, disgraced.
You did not apply this same 'thrown-out-of-court' logic to his case (warning) and called his e-mail a 'threat'. I have every right to highlight this duplicity as it does demonstrate that there is a bias to what you post and readers should be aware of that. If the mods consider this an offence, the clear evidence of double standards, then we are not debating, we are mollycoddling.


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Steve K
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Affa
Sep 24 2015, 10:31 AM
. .this duplicity . .


Another libellous adhom. Post ignored.
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