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"Isn't that a war crime?" - The Unbelievable Cynicism of our Politicians; I was astounded by this
Topic Started: Sep 22 2015, 04:03 PM (422 Views)
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/22/ashcrofts-cameron-biography-day-2-what-we-learned

Quote:
 
6. Cameron once witnessed a drone strike attack and concluded that the ‘pilot’ had committed a war crime
A former ambassador told the authors this happened when Cameron visited Afghanistan with William Hague in 2006. He said:

I remember we watched a great, fat, gross American [woman] sitting in an armchair, flying a drone and conducting a strike and pressing a button. There were these Taliban – you could see it on the camera – going across the desert, black and white, and then a puff!

The missile went down. These two wounded people struggled out of the truck, and then the woman pressed the button again, and another missile went down and these people were vaporised.

Cameron said: ‘Isn’t that a war crime?’ He immediately got it – obviously it was a war crime, it showed the whole pointlessness of the campaign.


Astounded by this, surely any honest person would walk far away from doing business with these people..and end all drone strikes?
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Deleted User
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I very interesting article. Thank you . :thumbsup:
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skwirked
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http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/09/09/cameron-seems-keen-to-join-the-ranks-of-british-war-criminals/

Yes, the killing was a war crime, yes the RAF personnel in question were subservient to a US chain f command.

Still not acceptable.

David Cameron's incompetence is partially responsible for:

The breakdown in Libya, Syria. ISIS's growth and 'righteous indignation' bs.
Civilians killed in Pk.
Mass crackdowns in Iran.
Further breakdown in Iraq and Afghanistan

Get troops out of all unsafe foreign countries and STOP meddling, our foreign policy is politically, economically and morally unaffordable.
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Tytoalba
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skwirked
Sep 22 2015, 04:03 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/22/ashcrofts-cameron-biography-day-2-what-we-learned

Quote:
 
6. Cameron once witnessed a drone strike attack and concluded that the ‘pilot’ had committed a war crime
A former ambassador told the authors this happened when Cameron visited Afghanistan with William Hague in 2006. He said:

I remember we watched a great, fat, gross American [woman] sitting in an armchair, flying a drone and conducting a strike and pressing a button. There were these Taliban – you could see it on the camera – going across the desert, black and white, and then a puff!

The missile went down. These two wounded people struggled out of the truck, and then the woman pressed the button again, and another missile went down and these people were vaporised.

Cameron said: ‘Isn’t that a war crime?’ He immediately got it – obviously it was a war crime, it showed the whole pointlessness of the campaign.


Astounded by this, surely any honest person would walk far away from doing business with these people..and end all drone strikes?
Needs must when the devil drives. What were the victims up to and why were they attacked.?
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Oddball
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skwirked - I by and large agree with many of your points, but would hasten to suggest that if 'we' don't supply those sorts of folks with the weapons, it is most likely that others will.

Kind of reminds me of Jeremy Corbyn's climb down over his anti-Trident replacement stance, caused by pressure from the Unions - it often comes down to things like the impact on employment and fiscal issues.

ps. If we left these iffy' countries to sort out which 'iffy' dictators and/or regimes will rule over them, could we retaliate whenever they come 'Jihading' into 'our' part of the world - the dar al-Harb?
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Tytoalba
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skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 12:39 PM
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/09/09/cameron-seems-keen-to-join-the-ranks-of-british-war-criminals/

Yes, the killing was a war crime, yes the RAF personnel in question were subservient to a US chain f command.

Still not acceptable.

David Cameron's incompetence is partially responsible for:

The breakdown in Libya, Syria. ISIS's growth and 'righteous indignation' bs.
Civilians killed in Pk.
Mass crackdowns in Iran.
Further breakdown in Iraq and Afghanistan

Get troops out of all unsafe foreign countries and STOP meddling, our foreign policy is politically, economically and morally unaffordable.
Didn't know you were so well informed about the reasons for the attacks and the intents of the enemy.
Bring back national service to put a bit of backbone into our young.
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skwirked
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Tytoalba
Sep 29 2015, 01:11 PM
skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 12:39 PM
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/09/09/cameron-seems-keen-to-join-the-ranks-of-british-war-criminals/

Yes, the killing was a war crime, yes the RAF personnel in question were subservient to a US chain f command.

Still not acceptable.

David Cameron's incompetence is partially responsible for:

The breakdown in Libya, Syria. ISIS's growth and 'righteous indignation' bs.
Civilians killed in Pk.
Mass crackdowns in Iran.
Further breakdown in Iraq and Afghanistan

Get troops out of all unsafe foreign countries and STOP meddling, our foreign policy is politically, economically and morally unaffordable.
Didn't know you were so well informed about the reasons for the attacks and the intents of the enemy.
Bring back national service to put a bit of backbone into our young.
You mean you'd like to force the young to learn what you did, so that they believe in the same completely morally legit, fair and balanced principles that you offered up in your earlier post.

National service is dead and is likely to stay dead, I agree entirely it's a shame people don't end up as well informed as you and others once did, you can consider yourself special. :)
Edited by skwirked, Sep 29 2015, 01:53 PM.
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RJD
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I am unsure that killing by drone is any more of a war crime than killing by Sniper bullet. On what basis does one differentiate? In both situations the target is identified remotely and means of inflicting damage possibly death also initiated remotely by a Human Operator. Clearly if the target was not classified as an enemy combatant then there would be questions. So what is the difference between a Snipers bullet and a drone? Perhaps the fact that the latter can kill whilst sitting comfortably in his armchair with a mug of tea?

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skwirked
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RJD
Sep 29 2015, 02:11 PM
I am unsure that killing by drone is any more of a war crime than killing by Sniper bullet. On what basis does one differentiate? In both situations the target is identified remotely and means of inflicting damage possibly death also initiated remotely by a Human Operator. Clearly if the target was not classified as an enemy combatant then there would be questions. So what is the difference between a Snipers bullet and a drone? Perhaps the fact that the latter can kill whilst sitting comfortably in his armchair with a mug of tea?

Pretty much, gives the operator and government the ability to act with far more indifference.

That must make a difference. A potential casualty vs a good chunk of cash wasted.
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marybrown
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War crimes are happening every day..

And nothing to do with ''drones''
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RJD
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skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 02:33 PM
RJD
Sep 29 2015, 02:11 PM
I am unsure that killing by drone is any more of a war crime than killing by Sniper bullet. On what basis does one differentiate? In both situations the target is identified remotely and means of inflicting damage possibly death also initiated remotely by a Human Operator. Clearly if the target was not classified as an enemy combatant then there would be questions. So what is the difference between a Snipers bullet and a drone? Perhaps the fact that the latter can kill whilst sitting comfortably in his armchair with a mug of tea?

Pretty much, gives the operator and government the ability to act with far more indifference.

That must make a difference. A potential casualty vs a good chunk of cash wasted.
Killing by Drone is very expensive compared with killing by Sniper's bullet. However, the question is whether killing by Drone is a war crime? I think not.

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RJD
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marybrown
Sep 29 2015, 03:18 PM
War crimes are happening every day..

And nothing to do with ''drones''
Surprise surprise Mary such crimes are actually also carried out by people who are not either British or American. Unbelievable.
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marybrown
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RJD
Sep 29 2015, 03:27 PM
skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 02:33 PM
RJD
Sep 29 2015, 02:11 PM
I am unsure that killing by drone is any more of a war crime than killing by Sniper bullet. On what basis does one differentiate? In both situations the target is identified remotely and means of inflicting damage possibly death also initiated remotely by a Human Operator. Clearly if the target was not classified as an enemy combatant then there would be questions. So what is the difference between a Snipers bullet and a drone? Perhaps the fact that the latter can kill whilst sitting comfortably in his armchair with a mug of tea?

Pretty much, gives the operator and government the ability to act with far more indifference.

That must make a difference. A potential casualty vs a good chunk of cash wasted.
Killing by Drone is very expensive compared with killing by Sniper's bullet. However, the question is whether killing by Drone is a war crime? I think not.

I don't think so either..it will save our little soldier boys from having to put a foot down in these god forsaken hell holes..
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RJD
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marybrown
Sep 29 2015, 03:30 PM
RJD
Sep 29 2015, 03:27 PM
skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 02:33 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Killing by Drone is very expensive compared with killing by Sniper's bullet. However, the question is whether killing by Drone is a war crime? I think not.

I don't think so either..it will save our little soldier boys from having to put a foot down in these god forsaken hell holes..
How many Drones do we have? How many Drone carrying weapons do we have? I am sure we have a lot more Soldiers with rifles and bullets. Not sure whether they have boots and body armour though.
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Tytoalba
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skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 01:23 PM
Tytoalba
Sep 29 2015, 01:11 PM
skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 12:39 PM
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/09/09/cameron-seems-keen-to-join-the-ranks-of-british-war-criminals/

Yes, the killing was a war crime, yes the RAF personnel in question were subservient to a US chain f command.

Still not acceptable.

David Cameron's incompetence is partially responsible for:

The breakdown in Libya, Syria. ISIS's growth and 'righteous indignation' bs.
Civilians killed in Pk.
Mass crackdowns in Iran.
Further breakdown in Iraq and Afghanistan

Get troops out of all unsafe foreign countries and STOP meddling, our foreign policy is politically, economically and morally unaffordable.
Didn't know you were so well informed about the reasons for the attacks and the intents of the enemy.
Bring back national service to put a bit of backbone into our young.
You mean you'd like to force the young to learn what you did, so that they believe in the same completely morally legit, fair and balanced principles that you offered up in your earlier post.

National service is dead and is likely to stay dead, I agree entirely it's a shame people don't end up as well informed as you and others once did, you can consider yourself special. :)
You never know when the next conflict will start, and pacifists lie you will be called to defend your family and country. Better to be prepared than enslaved, just like those who went before.
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Tytoalba
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RJD
Sep 29 2015, 03:34 PM
marybrown
Sep 29 2015, 03:30 PM
RJD
Sep 29 2015, 03:27 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I don't think so either..it will save our little soldier boys from having to put a foot down in these god forsaken hell holes..
How many Drones do we have? How many Drone carrying weapons do we have? I am sure we have a lot more Soldiers with rifles and bullets. Not sure whether they have boots and body armour though.
None at all if Corbin gets his way.
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skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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RJD
Sep 29 2015, 03:27 PM
skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 02:33 PM
RJD
Sep 29 2015, 02:11 PM
I am unsure that killing by drone is any more of a war crime than killing by Sniper bullet. On what basis does one differentiate? In both situations the target is identified remotely and means of inflicting damage possibly death also initiated remotely by a Human Operator. Clearly if the target was not classified as an enemy combatant then there would be questions. So what is the difference between a Snipers bullet and a drone? Perhaps the fact that the latter can kill whilst sitting comfortably in his armchair with a mug of tea?

Pretty much, gives the operator and government the ability to act with far more indifference.

That must make a difference. A potential casualty vs a good chunk of cash wasted.
Killing by Drone is very expensive compared with killing by Sniper's bullet. However, the question is whether killing by Drone is a war crime? I think not.

Why not? A sniper is so much more precise and drones have killed tens of thousands of civilians now.

That's one reason.

Another is that they ARE used for preemptive killings of "prospective" terrorists or "suspicious" people. Read vox link.

Fact is, it offers more indifference and ease to govt and op.

No I don't want soldiers killed, nor do I want illegal wars.
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RJD
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skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 03:47 PM
RJD
Sep 29 2015, 03:27 PM
skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 02:33 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Killing by Drone is very expensive compared with killing by Sniper's bullet. However, the question is whether killing by Drone is a war crime? I think not.

Why not? A sniper is so much more precise and drones have killed tens of thousands of civilians now.

That's one reason.

Another is that they ARE used for preemptive killings of "prospective" terrorists or "suspicious" people. Read vox link.

Fact is, it offers more indifference and ease to govt and op.

No I don't want soldiers killed, nor do I want illegal wars.
"Illegal Wars". Who is deciding that our current actions in Iraq are illegal? Same goes for Blair, many claim he is a War Criminal, but I really do not see the basis on which that can stick as he had the full approval of the House of Commons. Seems to me that the only place he can be judged is by that House via impeaching him for misleading them. Fat chance of that and thus far there seems to be no solid proof, mores the pity.
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marybrown
Senior Member
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RJD
Sep 29 2015, 03:34 PM
marybrown
Sep 29 2015, 03:30 PM
RJD
Sep 29 2015, 03:27 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I don't think so either..it will save our little soldier boys from having to put a foot down in these god forsaken hell holes..
How many Drones do we have? How many Drone carrying weapons do we have? I am sure we have a lot more Soldiers with rifles and bullets. Not sure whether they have boots and body armour though.
Well we were aware of the last cock up...No proper uniforms..no guns ...no boots..

Shameful..
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skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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RJD
Sep 29 2015, 04:23 PM
skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 03:47 PM
RJD
Sep 29 2015, 03:27 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Why not? A sniper is so much more precise and drones have killed tens of thousands of civilians now.

That's one reason.

Another is that they ARE used for preemptive killings of "prospective" terrorists or "suspicious" people. Read vox link.

Fact is, it offers more indifference and ease to govt and op.

No I don't want soldiers killed, nor do I want illegal wars.
"Illegal Wars". Who is deciding that our current actions in Iraq are illegal? Same goes for Blair, many claim he is a War Criminal, but I really do not see the basis on which that can stick as he had the full approval of the House of Commons. Seems to me that the only place he can be judged is by that House via impeaching him for misleading them. Fat chance of that and thus far there seems to be no solid proof, mores the pity.
The HofC's votes are rigged by Whips by default.

Do you for one minute believe that MPs in either party would jeopardize their power for some vote in an illegal war..with silly little people who are powerless?

What evidence do you need? So much has been presented and the likes of Ctoo simply say "we had no choice". This topic has been done to death and it looks like the pro-war side have totally flounced it.
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RJD
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skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 05:13 PM
RJD
Sep 29 2015, 04:23 PM
skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 03:47 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
"Illegal Wars". Who is deciding that our current actions in Iraq are illegal? Same goes for Blair, many claim he is a War Criminal, but I really do not see the basis on which that can stick as he had the full approval of the House of Commons. Seems to me that the only place he can be judged is by that House via impeaching him for misleading them. Fat chance of that and thus far there seems to be no solid proof, mores the pity.
The HofC's votes are rigged by Whips by default.

Do you for one minute believe that MPs in either party would jeopardize their power for some vote in an illegal war..with silly little people who are powerless?

What evidence do you need? So much has been presented and the likes of Ctoo simply say "we had no choice". This topic has been done to death and it looks like the pro-war side have totally flounced it.
I need the evidence required by a Court of Law to convict, nothing more and certainly nothing less.

I was persuaded by Blair that it was the right thing to do, ridding the World of Saddam, now I regret that I was easily taken in. The cost was disproportionate to that gained and here I mean to the Iraqis.

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skwirked
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RJD
Sep 29 2015, 06:00 PM
skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 05:13 PM
RJD
Sep 29 2015, 04:23 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
The HofC's votes are rigged by Whips by default.

Do you for one minute believe that MPs in either party would jeopardize their power for some vote in an illegal war..with silly little people who are powerless?

What evidence do you need? So much has been presented and the likes of Ctoo simply say "we had no choice". This topic has been done to death and it looks like the pro-war side have totally flounced it.
I need the evidence required by a Court of Law to convict, nothing more and certainly nothing less.

I was persuaded by Blair that it was the right thing to do, ridding the World of Saddam, now I regret that I was easily taken in. The cost was disproportionate to that gained and here I mean to the Iraqis.

Now that is amusing, do you believe that Blair with Cherie QC by his side, would get convicted for anything?

Anyway, this war crime legalese stuff has been done to death and reading legal documents gives
me a headache, so I will pass on your offer on this occasion, maybe another time.


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C-too
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marybrown
Sep 29 2015, 04:26 PM
RJD
Sep 29 2015, 03:34 PM
marybrown
Sep 29 2015, 03:30 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
How many Drones do we have? How many Drone carrying weapons do we have? I am sure we have a lot more Soldiers with rifles and bullets. Not sure whether they have boots and body armour though.
Well we were aware of the last cock up...No proper uniforms..no guns ...no boots..

Shameful..
Almost as bad as it was for the poor UK squaddies involved in the Crimea war.
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C-too
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skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 05:13 PM
RJD
Sep 29 2015, 04:23 PM
skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 03:47 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
"Illegal Wars". Who is deciding that our current actions in Iraq are illegal? Same goes for Blair, many claim he is a War Criminal, but I really do not see the basis on which that can stick as he had the full approval of the House of Commons. Seems to me that the only place he can be judged is by that House via impeaching him for misleading them. Fat chance of that and thus far there seems to be no solid proof, mores the pity.
The HofC's votes are rigged by Whips by default.

Do you for one minute believe that MPs in either party would jeopardize their power for some vote in an illegal war..with silly little people who are powerless?

What evidence do you need? So much has been presented and the likes of Ctoo simply say "we had no choice". This topic has been done to death and it looks like the pro-war side have totally flounced it.
---- "Do you for one minute believe that MPs in either party would jeopardize their power for some vote in an illegal war..with silly little people who are powerless"? ----
What a nasty piece of insinuation, if that is how your mind works it's time you had a rethink.

I have never NEVER said "we had no choice".
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skwirked
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C-too
Sep 29 2015, 06:29 PM
skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 05:13 PM
RJD
Sep 29 2015, 04:23 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
The HofC's votes are rigged by Whips by default.

Do you for one minute believe that MPs in either party would jeopardize their power for some vote in an illegal war..with silly little people who are powerless?

What evidence do you need? So much has been presented and the likes of Ctoo simply say "we had no choice". This topic has been done to death and it looks like the pro-war side have totally flounced it.
---- "Do you for one minute believe that MPs in either party would jeopardize their power for some vote in an illegal war..with silly little people who are powerless"? ----
What a nasty piece of insinuation, if that is how your mind works it's time you had a rethink.

I have never NEVER said "we had no choice".
I am sure you have said that actually, but what's the point? If I presented you with indisputable facts you'd ignore them and continue ranting anyway.

And if you think for one minute that our politicians do not dehumanize the enemy, it's time you had a rethink..actually you probably should anyway.
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Steve K
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skwirked
Sep 22 2015, 04:03 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/22/ashcrofts-cameron-biography-day-2-what-we-learned

Quote:
 
6. Cameron once witnessed a drone strike attack and concluded that the ‘pilot’ had committed a war crime
A former ambassador told the authors this happened when Cameron visited Afghanistan with William Hague in 2006. He said:

I remember we watched a great, fat, gross American [woman] sitting in an armchair, flying a drone and conducting a strike and pressing a button. There were these Taliban – you could see it on the camera – going across the desert, black and white, and then a puff!

The missile went down. These two wounded people struggled out of the truck, and then the woman pressed the button again, and another missile went down and these people were vaporised.

Cameron said: ‘Isn’t that a war crime?’ He immediately got it – obviously it was a war crime, it showed the whole pointlessness of the campaign.


Astounded by this, surely any honest person would walk far away from doing business with these people..and end all drone strikes?
As RJD has raised, why would that be a war crime? You and the Guardian reporter and maybe many others might find the killing of enemy combatants sickening or even immoral but war crimes are defined in less emotional terms and this alleged incident appears to be no such crime. I would like to see please your chapter and verse on why such would be war crimes.

The story also seems sus and made up in some bar after way too many sherbets.

To point out an obvious falsehood Cameron did not visit Afghanistan with William Hague in 2006. Also at that time the Predator drones were controlled by sat link from Nellis Air Base which most certainly is not in Asia so Cameron could never have seen those screens while visiting Afghanistan then

File under falsehood
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skwirked
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Steve K
Sep 29 2015, 10:16 PM
skwirked
Sep 22 2015, 04:03 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/22/ashcrofts-cameron-biography-day-2-what-we-learned

Quote:
 
6. Cameron once witnessed a drone strike attack and concluded that the ‘pilot’ had committed a war crime
A former ambassador told the authors this happened when Cameron visited Afghanistan with William Hague in 2006. He said:

I remember we watched a great, fat, gross American [woman] sitting in an armchair, flying a drone and conducting a strike and pressing a button. There were these Taliban – you could see it on the camera – going across the desert, black and white, and then a puff!

The missile went down. These two wounded people struggled out of the truck, and then the woman pressed the button again, and another missile went down and these people were vaporised.

Cameron said: ‘Isn’t that a war crime?’ He immediately got it – obviously it was a war crime, it showed the whole pointlessness of the campaign.


Astounded by this, surely any honest person would walk far away from doing business with these people..and end all drone strikes?
As RJD has raised, why would that be a war crime? You and the Guardian reporter and maybe many others might find the killing of enemy combatants sickening or even immoral but war crimes are defined in less emotional terms and this alleged incident appears to be no such crime. I would like to see please your chapter and verse on why such would be war crimes.

The story also seems sus and made up in some bar after way too many sherbets.

To point out an obvious falsehood Cameron did not visit Afghanistan with William Hague in 2006. Also at that time the Predator drones were controlled by sat link from Nellis Air Base which most certainly is not in Asia so Cameron could never have seen those screens while visiting Afghanistan then

File under falsehood
Oh well, you would pick at this wouldn't you, even if piggate was more implausible. Absolutely typical.

However, you could have a point, I found no mention of Hague going there in 06. Only Fox and Cam.
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Steve K
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Yep and Hague is a bit hard to mistake for Fox just like Nellis is for Asia. The story is a made up lie.

How you getting on showing that the piece of fiction describes a theoretical war crime?
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skwirked
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Well, if you comprehended my post you might see a resentful sign of resignation. It comes from Ashcrock, who's head looks like the pig on that pink floyd cover.
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Steve K
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skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 10:45 PM
Ashcrock
He certainly is now. An amazing business career based on backing his business nous with his money big time but he's blown it now.

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skwirked
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Amazing business career? You admire these people?
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Rich
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skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 03:47 PM
RJD
Sep 29 2015, 03:27 PM
skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 02:33 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Killing by Drone is very expensive compared with killing by Sniper's bullet. However, the question is whether killing by Drone is a war crime? I think not.

Why not? A sniper is so much more precise and drones have killed tens of thousands of civilians now.

That's one reason.

Another is that they ARE used for preemptive killings of "prospective" terrorists or "suspicious" people. Read vox link.

Fact is, it offers more indifference and ease to govt and op.

No I don't want soldiers killed, nor do I want illegal wars.
I have to ask......what is a "legal" war as opposed to an illegal war?
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Steve K
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skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 10:56 PM
Amazing business career? You admire these people?
yes and no

He really has gone from rags to riches by being prepared to stake the lot on the roulette wheel of new business and then do it again and again.

But as I've posted countless times we have false and skewed measures of business success and I'd want to see those entrepreneurs rewarded that backed their ideas for creating decent job creating businesses.

And as for THAT book, I find him contemptible
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Rich
Sep 29 2015, 11:01 PM
skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 03:47 PM
RJD
Sep 29 2015, 03:27 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Why not? A sniper is so much more precise and drones have killed tens of thousands of civilians now.

That's one reason.

Another is that they ARE used for preemptive killings of "prospective" terrorists or "suspicious" people. Read vox link.

Fact is, it offers more indifference and ease to govt and op.

No I don't want soldiers killed, nor do I want illegal wars.
I have to ask......what is a "legal" war as opposed to an illegal war?
one not in conflict with the UN charter and UNSC resolutions and not prosecuted by war crimes
Edited by Steve K, Sep 29 2015, 11:03 PM.
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skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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Steve K
Sep 29 2015, 11:01 PM
skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 10:56 PM
Amazing business career? You admire these people?
yes and no

He really has gone from rags to riches by being prepared to stake the lot on the roulette wheel of new business and then do it again and again.

But as I've posted countless times we have false and skewed measures of business success and I'd want to see those entrepreneurs rewarded that backed their ideas for creating decent job creating businesses.

And as for THAT book, I find him contemptible


Wasn't there some social business bill?

With loads of loopholes no doubt.
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Cymru
Alt-Right
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Steve K
Sep 29 2015, 11:02 PM
Rich
Sep 29 2015, 11:01 PM
skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 03:47 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I have to ask......what is a "legal" war as opposed to an illegal war?
one not in conflict with the UN charter and UNSC resolutions and not prosecuted by war crimes
Is using depleted uranium munitions in a heavily civilian populated built-up area with subsequent demonstrable birth defects on the future young of the inhabitants a war crime?

And if so who is culpable?

The soldiers firing the munitions? The officer ordering the attack? The politicians who started the war and who demand the resistance be crushed?
Edited by Cymru, Sep 30 2015, 06:32 AM.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Rich
Sep 29 2015, 11:01 PM
skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 03:47 PM
RJD
Sep 29 2015, 03:27 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Why not? A sniper is so much more precise and drones have killed tens of thousands of civilians now.

That's one reason.

Another is that they ARE used for preemptive killings of "prospective" terrorists or "suspicious" people. Read vox link.

Fact is, it offers more indifference and ease to govt and op.

No I don't want soldiers killed, nor do I want illegal wars.
I have to ask......what is a "legal" war as opposed to an illegal war?
Good question and often left for Courts to decide. However that Court could be the UN or even those politically motivated lot in the Hague.

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Affa
Senior Member
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Steve K
Sep 29 2015, 10:16 PM


Quote:
 
The story also seems sus and made up in some bar after way too many sherbets.

Quote:
 
Yeah; "Don't believe everything you read" should be tattooed/etched on everybody's typing hand.
At least half of the topics on here stem from some form of erroneous reporting.

I'm not expecting Corbyn to be any part of that ..... integrity doesn't allow it. Affa reply



Edited by Affa, Sep 30 2015, 09:26 AM.
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skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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Affa
Sep 30 2015, 08:28 AM
Steve K
Sep 29 2015, 10:16 PM


The story also seems sus and made up in some bar after way too many sherbets.

Yeah; "Don't believe everything you read" should be tattooed/etched on everybody's typing hand.
At least half of the topics on here stem from some form of erroneous reporting.

I'm not expecting Corbyn to be any part of that ..... integrity doesn't allow it.



Oh you make erroneous posts too and Corbyn is no bloody angel.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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skwirked
Sep 30 2015, 09:10 AM
Affa
Sep 30 2015, 08:28 AM
Steve K
Sep 29 2015, 10:16 PM


The story also seems sus and made up in some bar after way too many sherbets.

Yeah; "Don't believe everything you read" should be tattooed/etched on everybody's typing hand.
At least half of the topics on here stem from some form of erroneous reporting.

I'm not expecting Corbyn to be any part of that ..... integrity doesn't allow it.



Oh you make erroneous posts too and Corbyn is no bloody angel.
I though he was the reincarnation of Lev Davidovich Bronshtein (Trotsky). Why do the Russians have so many names?



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