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"Isn't that a war crime?" - The Unbelievable Cynicism of our Politicians; I was astounded by this
Topic Started: Sep 22 2015, 04:03 PM (423 Views)
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/22/ashcrofts-cameron-biography-day-2-what-we-learned

Quote:
 
6. Cameron once witnessed a drone strike attack and concluded that the ‘pilot’ had committed a war crime
A former ambassador told the authors this happened when Cameron visited Afghanistan with William Hague in 2006. He said:

I remember we watched a great, fat, gross American [woman] sitting in an armchair, flying a drone and conducting a strike and pressing a button. There were these Taliban – you could see it on the camera – going across the desert, black and white, and then a puff!

The missile went down. These two wounded people struggled out of the truck, and then the woman pressed the button again, and another missile went down and these people were vaporised.

Cameron said: ‘Isn’t that a war crime?’ He immediately got it – obviously it was a war crime, it showed the whole pointlessness of the campaign.


Astounded by this, surely any honest person would walk far away from doing business with these people..and end all drone strikes?
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Replies:
Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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bit of a posting mistype there ^

Cymru
Sep 30 2015, 06:17 AM
Is using depleted uranium munitions in a heavily civilian populated built-up area with subsequent demonstrable birth defects on the future young of the inhabitants a war crime?

And if so who is culpable?

The soldiers firing the munitions? The officer ordering the attack? The politicians who started the war and who demand the resistance be crushed?

Well the DU is most certainly not a war crime. More accurately not a war crime YET. Alleged links to birth defects unproven either way.

Firing into a heavily civilian populated area is. As is dropping barrel bombs onto same. Perhaps you could remember to mention that next time that Mr Assad comes into discussion

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Affa
Senior Member
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skwirked
Sep 30 2015, 09:10 AM

Oh you make erroneous posts too and Corbyn is no bloody angel.
I wasn't being personal, or disrespecting other posters at all. My comment was about media reporting, and has it happens politicians too when they pronounce on things. Messages that get aired here as if factual .........
As for myself; I never post anything that I do not believe as true! You may disagree with some of it, but that does not make me a liar.
In addition I will post conjecture supported by reasoning which challenges established opinion, and do so to widen debate ....... again, there is no intention to deceive or misinform.
I would welcome proof of anything, past, present or future, that you consider erroneous (etc).

Edited by Affa, Sep 30 2015, 09:23 AM.
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Rich
Senior Member
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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 09:16 AM
skwirked
Sep 30 2015, 09:10 AM
Affa
Sep 30 2015, 08:28 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Oh you make erroneous posts too and Corbyn is no bloody angel.
I though he was the reincarnation of Lev Davidovich Bronshtein (Trotsky). Why do the Russians have so many names?



I have only ever known his ilk as one word........but I dare not repeat it here.
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Cymru
Alt-Right
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Steve K
Sep 30 2015, 09:18 AM
bit of a posting mistype there ^

Cymru
Sep 30 2015, 06:17 AM
Is using depleted uranium munitions in a heavily civilian populated built-up area with subsequent demonstrable birth defects on the future young of the inhabitants a war crime?

And if so who is culpable?

The soldiers firing the munitions? The officer ordering the attack? The politicians who started the war and who demand the resistance be crushed?

Well the DU is most certainly not a war crime. More accurately not a war crime YET. Alleged links to birth defects unproven either way.

Firing into a heavily civilian populated area is. As is dropping barrel bombs onto same. Perhaps you could remember to mention that next time that Mr Assad comes into discussion

American use of depleted uranium munitions good, Syrian use of barrel bombs bad.

Got it.
Edited by Cymru, Sep 30 2015, 10:15 AM.
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Rich
Senior Member
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Cymru
Sep 30 2015, 10:11 AM
Steve K
Sep 30 2015, 09:18 AM
bit of a posting mistype there ^

Cymru
Sep 30 2015, 06:17 AM
Is using depleted uranium munitions in a heavily civilian populated built-up area with subsequent demonstrable birth defects on the future young of the inhabitants a war crime?

And if so who is culpable?

The soldiers firing the munitions? The officer ordering the attack? The politicians who started the war and who demand the resistance be crushed?

Well the DU is most certainly not a war crime. More accurately not a war crime YET. Alleged links to birth defects unproven either way.

Firing into a heavily civilian populated area is. As is dropping barrel bombs onto same. Perhaps you could remember to mention that next time that Mr Assad comes into discussion

American use of depleted uranium munitions good, Syrian use of barrel bombs bad.

Got it.
One could argue whom the end recipients from the weapons are.
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Deleted User
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Rich
Sep 30 2015, 10:17 AM
Cymru
Sep 30 2015, 10:11 AM
Steve K
Sep 30 2015, 09:18 AM
bit of a posting mistype there ^


Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
American use of depleted uranium munitions good, Syrian use of barrel bombs bad.

Got it.
One could argue whom the end recipients from the weapons are.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/19/us-depleted-uranium-weapons-civilian-areas-iraq


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-considine/us-depleted-uranium-as-ma_b_3812888.html


Apart from anything else what effect would you expect from a lot of radioactive material about in populated areas?
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skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 09:16 AM
skwirked
Sep 30 2015, 09:10 AM
Affa
Sep 30 2015, 08:28 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Oh you make erroneous posts too and Corbyn is no bloody angel.
I though he was the reincarnation of Lev Davidovich Bronshtein (Trotsky). Why do the Russians have so many names?



Why do the British? Elysium Smith-Smythe-Smith recurring.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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skwirked
Sep 30 2015, 12:15 PM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 09:16 AM
skwirked
Sep 30 2015, 09:10 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I though he was the reincarnation of Lev Davidovich Bronshtein (Trotsky). Why do the Russians have so many names?



Why do the British? Elysium Smith-Smythe-Smith recurring.
Never erd of im.

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C-too
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Honourable Member
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skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 06:42 PM
C-too
Sep 29 2015, 06:29 PM
skwirked
Sep 29 2015, 05:13 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
---- "Do you for one minute believe that MPs in either party would jeopardize their power for some vote in an illegal war..with silly little people who are powerless"? ----
What a nasty piece of insinuation, if that is how your mind works it's time you had a rethink.

I have never NEVER said "we had no choice".
I am sure you have said that actually, but what's the point? If I presented you with indisputable facts you'd ignore them and continue ranting anyway.

And if you think for one minute that our politicians do not dehumanize the enemy, it's time you had a rethink..actually you probably should anyway.
I have said that I believe an invasion of Iraq was inevitable sooner or later, but I have never said "we had no choice".

Your accusations don't ring true to me, so perhaps you would post a couple of your indisputable points and let's see ? :)
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Cymru
Sep 30 2015, 10:11 AM
Steve K
Sep 30 2015, 09:18 AM
bit of a posting mistype there ^

Cymru
Sep 30 2015, 06:17 AM
Is using depleted uranium munitions in a heavily civilian populated built-up area with subsequent demonstrable birth defects on the future young of the inhabitants a war crime?

And if so who is culpable?

The soldiers firing the munitions? The officer ordering the attack? The politicians who started the war and who demand the resistance be crushed?

Well the DU is most certainly not a war crime. More accurately not a war crime YET. Alleged links to birth defects unproven either way.

Firing into a heavily civilian populated area is. As is dropping barrel bombs onto same. Perhaps you could remember to mention that next time that Mr Assad comes into discussion

American use of depleted uranium munitions good, Syrian use of barrel bombs bad.

Got it.
Good but just to make sure

Barrel bombs are designed and deployed to turn civilians into pieces and red goo to terrorise the rest out of areas Assad wants to own.

DU shells are designed and deployed to defeat armour. You know armour as what civilians do not usually wear.

Got that?
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Rich
Senior Member
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gansao
Sep 30 2015, 12:06 PM
Rich
Sep 30 2015, 10:17 AM
Cymru
Sep 30 2015, 10:11 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
One could argue whom the end recipients from the weapons are.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/19/us-depleted-uranium-weapons-civilian-areas-iraq


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-considine/us-depleted-uranium-as-ma_b_3812888.html


Apart from anything else what effect would you expect from a lot of radioactive material about in populated areas?
The thing is, are you saying that the west is bombing indiscriminately whilst Assads Barrel bombs are just killing innocents regardless when they are just not interested in conflict and want to live the simple life, I think it is fair to say that western bombing missions are to the best of their ability, TARGETTED, unfortunately, due to the underhanded manner in which Arabs use innocents as shiels then there is bound to be a collateral cost which they will whinge about until the cows come home but when they do it then it is okay.
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skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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Steve K
Sep 30 2015, 02:30 PM
Cymru
Sep 30 2015, 10:11 AM
Steve K
Sep 30 2015, 09:18 AM
bit of a posting mistype there ^


Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
American use of depleted uranium munitions good, Syrian use of barrel bombs bad.

Got it.
Good but just to make sure

Barrel bombs are designed and deployed to turn civilians into pieces and red goo to terrorise the rest out of areas Assad wants to own.

DU shells are designed and deployed to defeat armour. You know armour as what civilians do not usually wear.

Got that?
Hmm ok but..

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3812888

Quote:
 

By this time you have likely heard of the atrocity that recently took place in which over 1,000 Syrian civilians reportedly died at the hands of a chemical weapon attack. Seeing the video and images of dead or helpless Syrian civilians struggling for life reminds me of another terrible weapon of war -- depleted uranium.
It is no secret that the U.S., with the assistance of other governments, used depleted uranium in the Gulf and Iraq War. A simple Google search of this topic can produce dozens and dozens of credible reports or stories to confirm these war crimes. For example, an important report on Harvard University's website discusses the fallout of depleted uranium contamination in Iraq. Dr. Souad N. Al-Azzawi, who authored the report after the Gulf War, wrote that:
"Depleted Uranium (DU) weaponry has been used against Iraq for the first time in the history of recent wars. The magnitude of the complications and damage related to the use of such radioactive and toxic weapons on the environment and the human population mostly results from the intended concealment, denial and misleading information released by the Pentagon about the quantities, characteristics and the area's in Iraq, in which these weapons have been used."
Similarly, as Democracy Now! reported in an interview with Al Jazeera reporter Dahr Jamail, "the U.S. invasion of Iraq has left behind a legacy of cancer and birth defects suspected of being caused by the U.S. military's extensive use of depleted uranium and white phosphorus." Democracy Now! wrote:
"Noting the birth defects in the Iraqi city of Fallujah, Jamail says: 'They're extremely hard to bear witness to. But it's something that we all need to pay attention to ... What this has generated is, from 2004 up to this day, we are seeing a rate of congenital malformations in the city of Fallujah that has surpassed even that in the wake of the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki that nuclear bombs were d' pped on at the end of World War II.'"
Moreover, Robert Koehler, a HuffPost blogger, has written extensively about the U.S. government's use of depleted uranium in Iraq. The following passage from Koehler's blog "The Suffering of Fallujah" gives us an idea of the immense impact that depleted uranium has had on Iraqi civilians:
"Thus last November, a group of British and Iraqi doctors petitioned the U.N. to investigate the alarming rise in birth defects at Fallujah's hospitals. 'Young women in Fallujah,' they wrote ... are terrified of having children because of the increasing number of babies born grotesquely deformed, with no heads, two heads, a single eye in their foreheads, scaly bodies or missing limbs. In addition, young children in Fallujah are now experiencing hideous cancers and leukemias.'"
Koehler continues:
"The International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health has just published an epidemiological study, "Cancer, Infant Mortality and Birth Sex-Ratio in Fallujah, Iraq 2005-2009," which has found, among much else, that Fallujah is experiencing higher rates of cancer, leukemia and infant mortality than Hiroshima and Nagasaki did in 1945."
Although Iraqi civilians have born the brunt of this awful weapon, American soldiers that served in the Gulf and Iraq War are also suffering from the fallout of depleted uranium. This issue is discussed in-depth by the Campaign Against Depleted Uranium, which campaigns to "ban on the use of uranium in all conventional weapons and weapon systems and for monitoring, health care, compensation and environmental remediation for communities affected by their use."
Countries around the world have called for the ban of depleted uranium, but unfortunately this demand has fallen on deaf ears. When asked in 2003 about Iraq's complaints about depleted uranium shells, Colonel James Naughton of U.S. Army Material Command stated in a Pentagon briefing that "They want it to go away because we kicked the crap out of the them."
Last week, UK foreign secretary William Hague, said that the use of chemical weapons in Syria is "not something that a humane or civilized world can ignore." Ironically, Western countries such as the UK and their allies have appeared to ignore the use of weapons that are equally vicious.
When "non-Westerners" make use of weapons of mass destruction, there is outrage and calls for military intervention from "the West," but when "Westerners" themselves use them, it is totally permissible, and the world can hardly react.
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Cymru
Alt-Right
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Steve K
Sep 30 2015, 02:30 PM
Cymru
Sep 30 2015, 10:11 AM
Steve K
Sep 30 2015, 09:18 AM
bit of a posting mistype there ^


Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
American use of depleted uranium munitions good, Syrian use of barrel bombs bad.

Got it.
Good but just to make sure

Barrel bombs are designed and deployed to turn civilians into pieces and red goo to terrorise the rest out of areas Assad wants to own.

DU shells are designed and deployed to defeat armour. You know armour as what civilians do not usually wear.

Got that?
Yeah those Fallujah militiamen were well known for their use of main battle tanks.
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