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Alan Johnson MP: UK should stay in EU even if workers lose their rights
Topic Started: Sep 27 2015, 12:54 PM (191 Views)
Phoenix One UK
Regular Member
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UK should stay in EU even if British workers lose their rights, says Labour's Alan Johnson

Labour should campaign to stay in the EU even if David Cameron negotiates away British workers’ rights that come with membership of it, a senior Labour politician has said.

Former Home Secretary Alan Johnson criticised a previous suggestion by his party leader Jeremy Corbyn that Labour should wait to see whether the prime minister’s package was acceptable.

“Even if [David Cameron] did come back with a package that interferes with workers’ rights we don’t get rid of the EU, we get rid of the Tories,” he told a fringe meeting at Labour party conference.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-should-stay-in-eu-even-if-british-workers-lose-their-rights-says-labours-alan-johnson-a6668966.html

Unquote:=================================

I thought it was Labours mandate to protect workers rights. Even the Unions finance the Labour party for that very reason. Looks like I assumed wrong. :rubchin:
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skwirked
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Alan Johnson is a tit, suspect he might be playing sabotage here or he really is that stupid. Hard to tell.
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Rich
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Phoenix One UK
Sep 27 2015, 12:54 PM
UK should stay in EU even if British workers lose their rights, says Labour's Alan Johnson

Labour should campaign to stay in the EU even if David Cameron negotiates away British workers’ rights that come with membership of it, a senior Labour politician has said.

Former Home Secretary Alan Johnson criticised a previous suggestion by his party leader Jeremy Corbyn that Labour should wait to see whether the prime minister’s package was acceptable.

“Even if [David Cameron] did come back with a package that interferes with workers’ rights we don’t get rid of the EU, we get rid of the Tories,” he told a fringe meeting at Labour party conference.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-should-stay-in-eu-even-if-british-workers-lose-their-rights-says-labours-alan-johnson-a6668966.html

Unquote:=================================

I thought it was Labours mandate to protect workers rights. Even the Unions finance the Labour party for that very reason. Looks like I assumed wrong. :rubchin:
I am sure you must be wrong as Mr Johnson is a dyed in the wool lifelong union stalwart, or then again he could just be playing "politics" with a small fringe group hoping that he will appeal to someone, perhaps he will have the gumption as a "grandee" to stand up in conference (which begins today) and utter the same so that all the world and it's mother will know where he stands and also if as Mr Corbyn has declared, everyone must be listened to in order to bring forth debate........we shall see what occurs.
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Deleted User
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LOSE?

“Even if [David Cameron] did come back with a package that interferes with workers’ rights we don’t get rid of the EU, we get rid of the Tories,” he told a fringe meeting at Labour party conference.


“For those colleagues, trade unionists, who raise the understandable concern that if he touches the social chapter, the European Working Time directive, the protection for workers – then he will have a bigger job in getting a yes vote.”


You dont know the difference between 'lose' and ' interfere'?
Also look at the second sentence, it explains quite simply that if Cameron reduces certain rights he would have less chance of getting a yes vote anyway.
Nothing to see here folks :facepalm:
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skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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gansao
Sep 27 2015, 01:03 PM
LOSE?

“Even if [David Cameron] did come back with a package that interferes with workers’ rights we don’t get rid of the EU, we get rid of the Tories,” he told a fringe meeting at Labour party conference.


“For those colleagues, trade unionists, who raise the understandable concern that if he touches the social chapter, the European Working Time directive, the protection for workers – then he will have a bigger job in getting a yes vote.”


You dont know the difference between 'lose' and ' interfere'?
Also look at the second sentence, it explains quite simply that if Cameron reduces certain rights he would have less chance of getting a yes vote anyway.
Nothing to see here folks :facepalm:
It was an idiotic thing to say, he 's not helping Corbyn IMO.

Although it is true that the Tories are a far bigger threat to workers rights than the EU.
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Rich
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skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 01:11 PM
gansao
Sep 27 2015, 01:03 PM
LOSE?

“Even if [David Cameron] did come back with a package that interferes with workers’ rights we don’t get rid of the EU, we get rid of the Tories,” he told a fringe meeting at Labour party conference.


“For those colleagues, trade unionists, who raise the understandable concern that if he touches the social chapter, the European Working Time directive, the protection for workers – then he will have a bigger job in getting a yes vote.”


You dont know the difference between 'lose' and ' interfere'?
Also look at the second sentence, it explains quite simply that if Cameron reduces certain rights he would have less chance of getting a yes vote anyway.
Nothing to see here folks :facepalm:
It was an idiotic thing to say, he 's not helping Corbyn IMO.

Although it is true that the Tories are a far bigger threat to workers rights than the EU.
Here I must disagree, with the enforced social engineering and muliculturalism brought upon us by new labour, we now have a very cheap source of labour which only undermines any bargaining power that the indigenous worker had, these foreigners are not tied into mortgages or direct debits or any other cohesive means that make a nation what it is and dtermines it's culture and character and THAT is what the British hating Labour party hoped to achieve and have done so in no small manner......Labour the friend of the worker......my fucking arse, I would not vote fot them if they were the only party standing, they are treacherous betraying bastards.

THERE, I think you know where my feelings lay.
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Deleted User
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Rich
Sep 27 2015, 01:33 PM
skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 01:11 PM
gansao
Sep 27 2015, 01:03 PM
LOSE?

“Even if [David Cameron] did come back with a package that interferes with workers’ rights we don’t get rid of the EU, we get rid of the Tories,” he told a fringe meeting at Labour party conference.


“For those colleagues, trade unionists, who raise the understandable concern that if he touches the social chapter, the European Working Time directive, the protection for workers – then he will have a bigger job in getting a yes vote.”


You dont know the difference between 'lose' and ' interfere'?
Also look at the second sentence, it explains quite simply that if Cameron reduces certain rights he would have less chance of getting a yes vote anyway.
Nothing to see here folks :facepalm:
It was an idiotic thing to say, he 's not helping Corbyn IMO.

Although it is true that the Tories are a far bigger threat to workers rights than the EU.
Here I must disagree, with the enforced social engineering and muliculturalism brought upon us by new labour, we now have a very cheap source of labour which only undermines any bargaining power that the indigenous worker had, these foreigners are not tied into mortgages or direct debits or any other cohesive means that make a nation what it is and dtermines it's culture and character and THAT is what the British hating Labour party hoped to achieve and have done so in no small manner......Labour the friend of the worker......my fucking arse, I would not vote fot them if they were the only party standing, they are treacherous betraying bastards.

THERE, I think you know where my feelings lay.


Rich. The Tories are and were just as bad as New Labour. They just spout different rhetoric .
Also you seem to be another migrantphobe who lays the blame for everything at the feet of immigrants.
Even if the OP has nothing to do with it.
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skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 12:59 PM
Alan Johnson is a tit, suspect he might be playing sabotage here or he really is that stupid. Hard to tell.


He was expressing an opinion. There was no 'criticism' because there was nothing to criticise.
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Deleted User
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skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 01:11 PM
gansao
Sep 27 2015, 01:03 PM
LOSE?

“Even if [David Cameron] did come back with a package that interferes with workers’ rights we don’t get rid of the EU, we get rid of the Tories,” he told a fringe meeting at Labour party conference.


“For those colleagues, trade unionists, who raise the understandable concern that if he touches the social chapter, the European Working Time directive, the protection for workers – then he will have a bigger job in getting a yes vote.”


You dont know the difference between 'lose' and ' interfere'?
Also look at the second sentence, it explains quite simply that if Cameron reduces certain rights he would have less chance of getting a yes vote anyway.
Nothing to see here folks :facepalm:
It was an idiotic thing to say, he 's not helping Corbyn IMO.

Although it is true that the Tories are a far bigger threat to workers rights than the EU.


It was an idiotic article. It exaggerates and contradicts itself
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skwirked
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Yeah agreed, the whole thing is a bit crap tbh. Never liked Alan though, he strikes me as a real careerist.

Not compatible with Corbyn's politics IMHO.
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skwirked
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Rich
Sep 27 2015, 01:33 PM
skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 01:11 PM
gansao
Sep 27 2015, 01:03 PM
LOSE?

“Even if [David Cameron] did come back with a package that interferes with workers’ rights we don’t get rid of the EU, we get rid of the Tories,” he told a fringe meeting at Labour party conference.


“For those colleagues, trade unionists, who raise the understandable concern that if he touches the social chapter, the European Working Time directive, the protection for workers – then he will have a bigger job in getting a yes vote.”


You dont know the difference between 'lose' and ' interfere'?
Also look at the second sentence, it explains quite simply that if Cameron reduces certain rights he would have less chance of getting a yes vote anyway.
Nothing to see here folks :facepalm:
It was an idiotic thing to say, he 's not helping Corbyn IMO.

Although it is true that the Tories are a far bigger threat to workers rights than the EU.
Here I must disagree, with the enforced social engineering and muliculturalism brought upon us by new labour, we now have a very cheap source of labour which only undermines any bargaining power that the indigenous worker had, these foreigners are not tied into mortgages or direct debits or any other cohesive means that make a nation what it is and dtermines it's culture and character and THAT is what the British hating Labour party hoped to achieve and have done so in no small manner......Labour the friend of the worker......my fucking arse, I would not vote fot them if they were the only party standing, they are treacherous betraying bastards.

THERE, I think you know where my feelings lay.
You often come out in support of employers yet it is they who lobbied NL for lax immigration and the infamous "open door policy".

Can you find me any evidence that the 'liberal' Tories would not have followed suit at the time?

If you wish to apportion blame, employers MUST bear at least SOME responsibility.
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Affa
Senior Member
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gansao
Sep 27 2015, 01:03 PM
LOSE?

“Even if [David Cameron] did come back with a package that interferes with workers’ rights we don’t get rid of the EU, we get rid of the Tories,” he told a fringe meeting at Labour party conference.


“For those colleagues, trade unionists, who raise the understandable concern that if he touches the social chapter, the European Working Time directive, the protection for workers – then he will have a bigger job in getting a yes vote.”


You dont know the difference between 'lose' and ' interfere'?
Also look at the second sentence, it explains quite simply that if Cameron reduces certain rights he would have less chance of getting a yes vote anyway.
Nothing to see here folks :facepalm:
:thumbsup:

I was about to say the same thing.
This is nothing other than Tory misrepresentation of not only the words spoken, but the actual message being delivered.
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Affa
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Rich
Sep 27 2015, 01:33 PM


THERE, I think you know where my feelings lay.
Yes; I've come to understand what motivates you more clearly these past few days, and it certainly is not a desire to workers be better represented and better regarded.

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Rich
Senior Member
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skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 01:57 PM
Rich
Sep 27 2015, 01:33 PM
skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 01:11 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep“Even if [David Cameron] did come back with a package that interferes with workers’ rights we don’t get rid of the EU, we get rid of the Tories,” he told a fringe meeting at Labour party conference.


“For those colleagues, trade unionists, who raise the understandable concern that if he touches the social chapter, the European Working Time directive, the protection for workers – then he will have a bigger job in getting a yes vote.”
Here I must disagree, with the enforced social engineering and muliculturalism brought upon us by new labour, we now have a very cheap source of labour which only undermines any bargaining power that the indigenous worker had, these foreigners are not tied into mortgages or direct debits or any other cohesive means that make a nation what it is and dtermines it's culture and character and THAT is what the British hating Labour party hoped to achieve and have done so in no small manner......Labour the friend of the worker......my fucking arse, I would not vote fot them if they were the only party standing, they are treacherous betraying bastards.

THERE, I think you know where my feelings lay.
You often come out in support of employers yet it is they who lobbied NL for lax immigration and the infamous "open door policy".

Can you find me any evidence that the 'liberal' Tories would not have followed suit at the time?

If you wish to apportion blame, employers MUST bear at least SOME responsibility.
Let us get one thing straight, private enterprise is not in it for charitable reasons, they are out to make as much profit as possible at whatever cost, that basically is their ethos, you or I have no say in the matter, what we can do however is to elect governments that will create the right environment where both businesses and employees are both satisfied.

saturating the labour force with virtual slave labour is not conducive to that end.

And that is why I will never vote for labour even if they were the only party standing for election, and until we free ourselves from the restrictions placed upon us by a body that we DID NOT vote for then this or any other government has no say in the matter thanks to some prick signing a deal whereby anyone and everyone can come and go as they please......absolute madness imo.
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Tigger
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gansao
Sep 27 2015, 01:03 PM
LOSE?

“Even if [David Cameron] did come back with a package that interferes with workers’ rights we don’t get rid of the EU, we get rid of the Tories,” he told a fringe meeting at Labour party conference.


“For those colleagues, trade unionists, who raise the understandable concern that if he touches the social chapter, the European Working Time directive, the protection for workers – then he will have a bigger job in getting a yes vote.”


You dont know the difference between 'lose' and ' interfere'?
Also look at the second sentence, it explains quite simply that if Cameron reduces certain rights he would have less chance of getting a yes vote anyway.
Nothing to see here folks :facepalm:
I'm afraid the OP is a crock of shit as you've noticed, dishonesty routinely trips of this posters fingertips.
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Tigger
Senior Member
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Rich
Sep 27 2015, 02:56 PM


And that is why I will never vote for labour even if they were the only party standing for election,
Then you deserve everything you get, or rather won't get.

Pig headed intransigence and single issue obstinacy will ensure you, your children and grandchildren will remain, poor, dispossessed and without any say in the nation we all built.

I hope you enjoy it!
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Tigger
Sep 27 2015, 03:42 PM
Rich
Sep 27 2015, 02:56 PM


And that is why I will never vote for labour even if they were the only party standing for election,
Then you deserve everything you get, or rather won't get.

Pig headed intransigence and single issue obstinacy will ensure you, your children and grandchildren will remain, poor, dispossessed and without any say in the nation we all built.

I hope you enjoy it!


The baby boomers will leave a stink that will last long after they are dead and gone.
In the meantime they will gather in their pensions and try to poison the future for todays young people.
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RJD
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Would that be the right to insist on such conditions that the likely outcome is a life on Welfare?

Funny how Merkel managed to tone down workers rights, kept a lid on wage rises and social cost increases and she is a hero. "We want more of that manufacturing the Germans do" is the cry. But in Britain some want it as a gift and are not prepared to fight for jobs. Funny is it not that the owners and managers have to fight for investment, for orders, but according to many here that is nowt to do with the Workers who just want a constant supply of well paid well protected jobs. Time some of them took a World tour to discover the realities in this Global Marketplace.


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RJD
Sep 27 2015, 04:54 PM
Would that be the right to insist on such conditions that the likely outcome is a life on Welfare?

Funny how Merkel managed to tone down workers rights, kept a lid on wage rises and social cost increases and she is a hero. "We want more of that manufacturing the Germans do" is the cry. But in Britain some want it as a gift and are not prepared to fight for jobs. Funny is it not that the owners and managers have to fight for investment, for orders, but according to many here that is nowt to do with the Workers who just want a constant supply of well paid well protected jobs. Time some of them took a World tour to discover the realities in this Global Marketplace.




Nothing wrong with well paid and protected jobs ;-)
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Tigger
Senior Member
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RJD
Sep 27 2015, 04:54 PM


Funny how Merkel managed to tone down workers rights, kept a lid on wage rises and social cost increases and she is a hero. "We want more of that manufacturing the Germans do" is the cry. But in Britain some want it as a gift and are not prepared to fight for jobs. Funny is it not that the owners and managers have to fight for investment, for orders, but according to many here that is nowt to do with the Workers who just want a constant supply of well paid well protected jobs. Time some of them took a World tour to discover the realities in this Global Marketplace.


At the risk of calling you a thick twat, can you imagine Britain implementing what Merkel was able to do?

Can you picture a British government telling the plebs that wage restraint is a must and backing it up with cost of living price controls and rent freezes so as not to de house those plebs thus trashing the objectives you set out to initially achieve?

No, austerity and fiscal restraint is only for the little people in Britain........
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Deleted User
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Tigger
Sep 27 2015, 05:15 PM
RJD
Sep 27 2015, 04:54 PM


Funny how Merkel managed to tone down workers rights, kept a lid on wage rises and social cost increases and she is a hero. "We want more of that manufacturing the Germans do" is the cry. But in Britain some want it as a gift and are not prepared to fight for jobs. Funny is it not that the owners and managers have to fight for investment, for orders, but according to many here that is nowt to do with the Workers who just want a constant supply of well paid well protected jobs. Time some of them took a World tour to discover the realities in this Global Marketplace.


At the risk of calling you a thick twat, can you imagine Britain implementing what Merkel was able to do?

Can you picture a British government telling the plebs that wage restraint is a must and backing it up with cost of living price controls and rent freezes so as not to de house those plebs thus trashing the objectives you set out to initially achieve?

No, austerity and fiscal restraint is only for the little people in Britain........


Workers 'fighting for jobs' is a Tory wet dream.
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Rich
Senior Member
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Rich
Sep 27 2015, 02:56 PM
skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 01:57 PM
Rich
Sep 27 2015, 01:33 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep“Even if [David Cameron] did come back with a package that interferes with workers’ rights we don’t get rid of the EU, we get rid of the Tories,” he told a fringe meeting at Labour party conference.


“For those colleagues, trade unionists, who raise the understandable concern that if he touches the social chapter, the European Working Time directive, the protection for workers – then he will have a bigger job in getting a yes vote.”
You often come out in support of employers yet it is they who lobbied NL for lax immigration and the infamous "open door policy".

Can you find me any evidence that the 'liberal' Tories would not have followed suit at the time?

If you wish to apportion blame, employers MUST bear at least SOME responsibility.
Let us get one thing straight, private enterprise is not in it for charitable reasons, they are out to make as much profit as possible at whatever cost, that basically is their ethos, you or I have no say in the matter, what we can do however is to elect governments that will create the right environment where both businesses and employees are both satisfied.

saturating the labour force with virtual slave labour is not conducive to that end.

And that is why I will never vote for labour even if they were the only party standing for election, and until we free ourselves from the restrictions placed upon us by a body that we DID NOT vote for then this or any other government has no say in the matter thanks to some prick signing a deal whereby anyone and everyone can come and go as they please......absolute madness imo.
I do not claim that the following paints the whole picture, but it may go some way to explaining why I am so cynical where politicians are concerned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06bnqsy#play

It has been said today that at the Labour party conference, Mr Corbyn has stated that he wants all mp's to have a free vote concerning the future of our nuclear arms, (trident renewal) to me this is correct as MP's are after all is said and done supposed to represent their constituents, that is why they sent them there, I do not say that the man in the street is any more informed than their MP, or vice versa, but at least the nations concerns will for once be represented and debated, for what it's worth, the nuclear deterrent has stood us in good stead so far.
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RoofGardener
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Lord of Plantpots
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I doubt many of the former Blairite MP's would sanction a withdrawal from the EU.

In my opinion, they are too wedded to the concept of an authoritarian, collectivist Central Authority, and the dismantling of the concept of Nationality and Great Britain. (especially England.... they hate England).

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Lewis
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Rich
Sep 27 2015, 01:33 PM
skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 01:11 PM
gansao
Sep 27 2015, 01:03 PM
LOSE?

“Even if [David Cameron] did come back with a package that interferes with workers’ rights we don’t get rid of the EU, we get rid of the Tories,” he told a fringe meeting at Labour party conference.


“For those colleagues, trade unionists, who raise the understandable concern that if he touches the social chapter, the European Working Time directive, the protection for workers – then he will have a bigger job in getting a yes vote.”


You dont know the difference between 'lose' and ' interfere'?
Also look at the second sentence, it explains quite simply that if Cameron reduces certain rights he would have less chance of getting a yes vote anyway.
Nothing to see here folks :facepalm:
It was an idiotic thing to say, he 's not helping Corbyn IMO.

Although it is true that the Tories are a far bigger threat to workers rights than the EU.
Here I must disagree, with the enforced social engineering and muliculturalism brought upon us by new labour, we now have a very cheap source of labour which only undermines any bargaining power that the indigenous worker had, these foreigners are not tied into mortgages or direct debits or any other cohesive means that make a nation what it is and dtermines it's culture and character and THAT is what the British hating Labour party hoped to achieve and have done so in no small manner......Labour the friend of the worker......my fucking arse, I would not vote fot them if they were the only party standing, they are treacherous betraying bastards.

THERE, I think you know where my feelings lay.
How come your Tories have let more into the country then ever before? You voted for the bastard tories!

You must know that, also the treacherous bastards John Major had, are now pulling Scameron's strings!
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RJD
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Tig.: At the risk of calling you a thick twat, can you imagine Britain implementing what Merkel was able to do?

I am impervious of your insults as from you the carry no weight. I agree unlike the Germans where the Unions agreed to the strategy in order too preserve jobs, remember Merkel inherited The Sick Man of Europe, there is no sign that British Workers would ever think long term. Why? Well most are just like you.

Tig: Can you picture a British government telling the plebs that wage restraint is a must and backing it up with cost of living price controls and rent freezes so as not to de house those plebs thus trashing the objectives you set out to initially achieve?

No chance, we tried that and it did not work, it ended up with The Winter of Discontent. Probably before you were born so you are unlikely to know much about that to.

Tig: No, austerity and fiscal restraint is only for the little people in Britain........

Well that summarises your ignorance. The Little People that you refer to contribute little, quite rightly so.
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skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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Most debates in this place are recycled a billion times over
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Affa
Sep 27 2015, 02:30 PM
gansao
Sep 27 2015, 01:03 PM
LOSE?

“Even if [David Cameron] did come back with a package that interferes with workers’ rights we don’t get rid of the EU, we get rid of the Tories,” he told a fringe meeting at Labour party conference.


“For those colleagues, trade unionists, who raise the understandable concern that if he touches the social chapter, the European Working Time directive, the protection for workers – then he will have a bigger job in getting a yes vote.”


You dont know the difference between 'lose' and ' interfere'?
Also look at the second sentence, it explains quite simply that if Cameron reduces certain rights he would have less chance of getting a yes vote anyway.
Nothing to see here folks :facepalm:
:thumbsup:

I was about to say the same thing.
This is nothing other than Tory misrepresentation of not only the words spoken, but the actual message being delivered.
Well at least you two were on the ball :thumbsup:

Sad to see the Independent fall into Daily Misery tactic of printing a big fat lie headline not even remotely supported by the truth or the article itself. :nono:

Predictable that the OP would not so check before leaping to post. The good news is Premature Expostulation can be treated.
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Tigger
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skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 07:36 PM
Most debates in this place are recycled a billion times over
Of course! ;D

A friend of mine edits a very well known fishing magazine and he candidly told me that you only need to by the rag for a year because by the time spring comes around again the news articles will be more or less repeated!
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Rich
Senior Member
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Tigger
Sep 27 2015, 10:35 PM
skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 07:36 PM
Most debates in this place are recycled a billion times over
Of course! ;D

A friend of mine edits a very well known fishing magazine and he candidly told me that you only need to by the rag for a year because by the time spring comes around again the news articles will be more or less repeated!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHmfEJWYJt8

;D ;D ;D
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Tytoalba
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gansao
Sep 27 2015, 05:18 PM
Tigger
Sep 27 2015, 05:15 PM
RJD
Sep 27 2015, 04:54 PM


Funny how Merkel managed to tone down workers rights, kept a lid on wage rises and social cost increases and she is a hero. "We want more of that manufacturing the Germans do" is the cry. But in Britain some want it as a gift and are not prepared to fight for jobs. Funny is it not that the owners and managers have to fight for investment, for orders, but according to many here that is nowt to do with the Workers who just want a constant supply of well paid well protected jobs. Time some of them took a World tour to discover the realities in this Global Marketplace.


At the risk of calling you a thick twat, can you imagine Britain implementing what Merkel was able to do?

Can you picture a British government telling the plebs that wage restraint is a must and backing it up with cost of living price controls and rent freezes so as not to de house those plebs thus trashing the objectives you set out to initially achieve?

No, austerity and fiscal restraint is only for the little people in Britain........


Workers 'fighting for jobs' is a Tory wet dream.
Haven't seen much sign in recent years of workers fighting for jobs, or fighting their employers for that matter. Certainly people are looking for work all the time, but not all the same people all of the time. Industrial relations for the most part are good, other than in certain public sectors where union barons are constantly fermenting strikes for political reasons. The less strikes, the more cooperative the work force and unions, and the more inward investment into the country to boost or industrial capacity and to supply well paid employment. Cooperation instead of confrontation and blackmail.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Tytoalba
Sep 28 2015, 10:25 AM
gansao
Sep 27 2015, 05:18 PM
Tigger
Sep 27 2015, 05:15 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep


Workers 'fighting for jobs' is a Tory wet dream.
Haven't seen much sign in recent years of workers fighting for jobs, or fighting their employers for that matter. Certainly people are looking for work all the time, but not all the same people all of the time. Industrial relations for the most part are good, other than in certain public sectors where union barons are constantly fermenting strikes for political reasons. The less strikes, the more cooperative the work force and unions, and the more inward investment into the country to boost or industrial capacity and to supply well paid employment. Cooperation instead of confrontation and blackmail.
I was very impressed by the way the Workers, Unions and Management at GM Ellesmere Port stood together to win investment in direct competition with Opel (also GM) Russelsheim. Yes the Brits can, when led by Unions who take Members jobs seriously, behave just like pragmatic Germans.
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C-too
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skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 01:57 PM
Rich
Sep 27 2015, 01:33 PM
skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 01:11 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep“Even if [David Cameron] did come back with a package that interferes with workers’ rights we don’t get rid of the EU, we get rid of the Tories,” he told a fringe meeting at Labour party conference.


“For those colleagues, trade unionists, who raise the understandable concern that if he touches the social chapter, the European Working Time directive, the protection for workers – then he will have a bigger job in getting a yes vote.”
Here I must disagree, with the enforced social engineering and muliculturalism brought upon us by new labour, we now have a very cheap source of labour which only undermines any bargaining power that the indigenous worker had, these foreigners are not tied into mortgages or direct debits or any other cohesive means that make a nation what it is and dtermines it's culture and character and THAT is what the British hating Labour party hoped to achieve and have done so in no small manner......Labour the friend of the worker......my fucking arse, I would not vote fot them if they were the only party standing, they are treacherous betraying bastards.

THERE, I think you know where my feelings lay.
You often come out in support of employers yet it is they who lobbied NL for lax immigration and the infamous "open door policy".

Can you find me any evidence that the 'liberal' Tories would not have followed suit at the time?

If you wish to apportion blame, employers MUST bear at least SOME responsibility.
At the time of the immigration decisions we had an expanding economy, a shortage of skilled and professional personnel and the lowest unemployment since 1981.
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RJD
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C-too
Sep 28 2015, 11:22 AM
skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 01:57 PM
Rich
Sep 27 2015, 01:33 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep“Even if [David Cameron] did come back with a package that interferes with workers’ rights we don’t get rid of the EU, we get rid of the Tories,” he told a fringe meeting at Labour party conference.


“For those colleagues, trade unionists, who raise the understandable concern that if he touches the social chapter, the European Working Time directive, the protection for workers – then he will have a bigger job in getting a yes vote.”
You often come out in support of employers yet it is they who lobbied NL for lax immigration and the infamous "open door policy".

Can you find me any evidence that the 'liberal' Tories would not have followed suit at the time?

If you wish to apportion blame, employers MUST bear at least SOME responsibility.
At the time of the immigration decisions we had an expanding economy, a shortage of skilled and professional personnel and the lowest unemployment since 1981.
Really. Are you claiming that the demand for unskilled workers could not have been satisfied locally? That the number of jobs exceeded the numbers of those, at that time, recorded as being able and willing to work?

I agree there has been a shortage of skilled people for a very long time and this persisted through the difficult period post 2007/08.
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skwirked
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RJD
Sep 28 2015, 10:33 AM
Tytoalba
Sep 28 2015, 10:25 AM
gansao
Sep 27 2015, 05:18 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Haven't seen much sign in recent years of workers fighting for jobs, or fighting their employers for that matter. Certainly people are looking for work all the time, but not all the same people all of the time. Industrial relations for the most part are good, other than in certain public sectors where union barons are constantly fermenting strikes for political reasons. The less strikes, the more cooperative the work force and unions, and the more inward investment into the country to boost or industrial capacity and to supply well paid employment. Cooperation instead of confrontation and blackmail.
I was very impressed by the way the Workers, Unions and Management at GM Ellesmere Port stood together to win investment in direct competition with Opel (also GM) Russelsheim. Yes the Brits can, when led by Unions who take Members jobs seriously, behave just like pragmatic Germans.
And that might be because the Germans encourage auch.

Our government and culture want workers crushed as hard as possible.
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C-too
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RJD
Sep 28 2015, 12:23 PM
C-too
Sep 28 2015, 11:22 AM
skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 01:57 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep“Even if [David Cameron] did come back with a package that interferes with workers’ rights we don’t get rid of the EU, we get rid of the Tories,” he told a fringe meeting at Labour party conference.


“For those colleagues, trade unionists, who raise the understandable concern that if he touches the social chapter, the European Working Time directive, the protection for workers – then he will have a bigger job in getting a yes vote.”
At the time of the immigration decisions we had an expanding economy, a shortage of skilled and professional personnel and the lowest unemployment since 1981.
Really. Are you claiming that the demand for unskilled workers could not have been satisfied locally? That the number of jobs exceeded the numbers of those, at that time, recorded as being able and willing to work?

I agree there has been a shortage of skilled people for a very long time and this persisted through the difficult period post 2007/08.
I'm making no such claim. But I have not yet been given a run down on the;
Number of skilled people who came in.
The number of semi skilled.
The number of professionals.
Or the self employed who finished up employing others.

Also, part of the equation is the education level and appearance needed for many unskilled non-professional jobs. IMO, the end number of UK unskilled that were unemployed is probably significant but not as large as some would have us believe and not all down to immigration.

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skwirked
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RJD
Sep 28 2015, 12:23 PM
C-too
Sep 28 2015, 11:22 AM
skwirked
Sep 27 2015, 01:57 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep“Even if [David Cameron] did come back with a package that interferes with workers’ rights we don’t get rid of the EU, we get rid of the Tories,” he told a fringe meeting at Labour party conference.


“For those colleagues, trade unionists, who raise the understandable concern that if he touches the social chapter, the European Working Time directive, the protection for workers – then he will have a bigger job in getting a yes vote.”
At the time of the immigration decisions we had an expanding economy, a shortage of skilled and professional personnel and the lowest unemployment since 1981.
Really. Are you claiming that the demand for unskilled workers could not have been satisfied locally? That the number of jobs exceeded the numbers of those, at that time, recorded as being able and willing to work?

I agree there has been a shortage of skilled people for a very long time and this persisted through the difficult period post 2007/08.
I find myself in total agreement, although it's obvious to all that I do not resent immigration in any way whatsoever.
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C-too
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RoofGardener
Sep 27 2015, 06:37 PM
I doubt many of the former Blairite MP's would sanction a withdrawal from the EU.

In my opinion, they are too wedded to the concept of an authoritarian, collectivist Central Authority, and the dismantling of the concept of Nationality and Great Britain. (especially England.... they hate England).

I suspect it is the lure of a 500 million people market. Well larger than Russia and larger than America by a fair margin. Probably the third largest market in the world after China and India. That looks too good to ignore.

IMO the EU is and has always been the ideal for the future, providing the EU gets it right along the way.
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RJD
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C2:
Quote:
 
I'm making no such claim. But I have not yet been given a run down on the;
Number of skilled people who came in.
The number of semi skilled.
The number of professionals.
Or the self employed who finished up employing others.


Well unless you have such information available to you how are you able to conclude that such inward migration was necessary?


Quote:
 
Also, part of the equation is the education level and appearance needed for many unskilled non-professional jobs. IMO, the end number of UK unskilled that were unemployed is probably significant but not as large as some would have us believe and not all down to immigration.


Well you are free to combat the claim that >90% of all new jobs were taken by Immigrants.

Truth is that the vast majority of Immigrants were male, under 25 and the jobs they found in the UK were mainly unskilled and their first jobs ever. Truth is that there was/is sufficient unemployed in the UK to satisfy that demand from indigenous population. However, the mindset at that time was an encouragement of a life on benefits rather than getting up early and chasing down a job. My how times have changed.

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