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Lord Ashcroft, idiot?
Topic Started: Sep 29 2015, 06:45 PM (165 Views)
Tigger
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Even I've got bored reading excerpts from this self serving cretins book on Cameron, what has come across is a typical wealthy Tory and it's leaving a foul smell in my nostrils.

This tosser would appear to have written this book out of nothing more than Spite and Envy, (someone should copyright that ;-)) the claims, apart from the best one of course, reek of self pitying hypocrisy on the part of Ashcroft, a man who after giving the Tory party close to eight million quid expected a cabinet position and a full voice in government. I've previously mentioned Britain is like a banana republic, and here is yet more proof.
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I am surprised that he is not in the cabinet. He seems perfect...
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johnofgwent
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Oh he's actually writing a book is he ? I sort of assumed the chatter on here revolved around something that had surfaced the usual way - through one politician "briefing journalists" against another. Admittedly a practice more at home in the Royal Family and the Labour Party, but something I'm sure a tory could warm to ...

"Even I've got bored reading excerpts from this self serving cretins book on Cameron"

So why waste time doing so then ?
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RJD
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Seems to me that many here are happy with low standards of proof.
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johnofgwent
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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 07:14 AM
Seems to me that many here are happy with low standards of proof.
... or alternatively don't give a flying one about such twatter press crap, knowing it's probably true but seeing as nobody gets shamed or worse for sticking their genitalia anywhere these days just what exactly is the point in getting worked up about it. Much better to spend one's time working out what they are trying to hide behind that "front page" news ...
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RJD
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johnofgwent
Sep 30 2015, 07:21 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 07:14 AM
Seems to me that many here are happy with low standards of proof.
... or alternatively don't give a flying one about such twatter press crap, knowing it's probably true but seeing as nobody gets shamed or worse for sticking their genitalia anywhere these days just what exactly is the point in getting worked up about it. Much better to spend one's time working out what they are trying to hide behind that "front page" news ...
Correct Joe Public does not appear to give a sh1t where Cameron, as a younger man, once stuck his genitalia or whether or not got himself high on whiffs. As for the Author of the book, he does not need the money so one must wonder at his motivations. Looks like and smells like personal revenge. Still it titivates and gets the anti-Tory Brigade agitated.



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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 07:38 AM
Correct Joe Public does not appear to give a sh1t where Cameron, as a younger man, once stuck his genitalia or whether or not got himself high on whiffs.
Speak for yourself. The recent revelations by Ashcroft and worse about other members of the current Tory front bench as well as Cameron were published years ago but the author did not have the clout Ashcroft has to get it publicised.
I would not want to be in the same room as the perverted bastards let alone have them in government.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 30 2015, 07:52 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 07:38 AM
Correct Joe Public does not appear to give a sh1t where Cameron, as a younger man, once stuck his genitalia or whether or not got himself high on whiffs.
Speak for yourself. The recent revelations by Ashcroft and worse about other members of the current Tory front bench as well as Cameron were published years ago but the author did not have the clout Ashcroft has to get it publicised.
I would not want to be in the same room as the perverted bastards let alone have them in government.
These are unsubstantiated claims, but I am aware that you have low standards for evidence when suits and you like the rest of us only get 1 vote.

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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 07:57 AM
These are unsubstantiated claims, but I am aware that you have low standards for evidence when suits and you like the rest of us only get 1 vote.

The author of the earlier book has never been sued, despite activities far worse than Ashcroft published being in it.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 30 2015, 08:01 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 07:57 AM
These are unsubstantiated claims, but I am aware that you have low standards for evidence when suits and you like the rest of us only get 1 vote.

The author of the earlier book has never been sued, despite activities far worse than Ashcroft published being in it.
I wait for the Judge and Jury to decide.
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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 08:04 AM
I wait for the Judge and Jury to decide.
If the people commented on did not sue, has it ever crossed your mind the author of the first book could prove in court what they wrote was true which is why they have not been sued.
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C-too
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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 07:38 AM
johnofgwent
Sep 30 2015, 07:21 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 07:14 AM
Seems to me that many here are happy with low standards of proof.
... or alternatively don't give a flying one about such twatter press crap, knowing it's probably true but seeing as nobody gets shamed or worse for sticking their genitalia anywhere these days just what exactly is the point in getting worked up about it. Much better to spend one's time working out what they are trying to hide behind that "front page" news ...
Correct Joe Public does not appear to give a sh1t where Cameron, as a younger man, once stuck his genitalia or whether or not got himself high on whiffs. As for the Author of the book, he does not need the money so one must wonder at his motivations. Looks like and smells like personal revenge. Still it titivates and gets the anti-Tory Brigade agitated.



Imagining that if this was taking place around 2003 with the subject of these allegations being aimed at Blair, it seems to me that the high levels of extreme vicious vitriol that would have been aimed at Blair in a similar situation, is totally absent. :)
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 30 2015, 08:12 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 08:04 AM
I wait for the Judge and Jury to decide.
If the people commented on did not sue, has it ever crossed your mind the author of the first book could prove in court what they wrote was true which is why they have not been sued.
He could only prove such with solid factual proof provided by vetted whiteness' and not based on any innuendo. The fact that an individual decides to sue or not sue is irrelevant. I am sure that most civilised people accept that one is innocent until proven guilty in a Court of Law.



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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 08:24 AM
He could only prove such with solid factual proof

That is why the author gas not been sued. (I think it is a she by the way, I am still trying to find a reference for the book.)
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Affa
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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 07:14 AM
Seems to me that many here are happy with low standards of proof.


Did you Blush?

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RJD
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Affa
Sep 30 2015, 08:31 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 07:14 AM
Seems to me that many here are happy with low standards of proof.


Did you Blush?

Why should I. Mr Smurf has a history of claiming guilty without bothering with evidence.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 30 2015, 08:29 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 08:24 AM
He could only prove such with solid factual proof

That is why the author gas not been sued. (I think it is a she by the way, I am still trying to find a reference for the book.)
You presume too much. We have no idea why Cameron has not sued or will in the future do so.
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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 08:32 AM
Why should I. Mr Smurf has a history of claiming guilty without bothering with evidence.
I don't RJD, it isn't my fault you never read references. I would also comment I lived fairly close to Eton until 1984.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 30 2015, 08:36 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 08:32 AM
Why should I. Mr Smurf has a history of claiming guilty without bothering with evidence.
I don't RJD, it isn't my fault you never read references. I would also comment I lived fairly close to Eton until 1984.
Who cares whether or not you lived close to Eton or Dachau for that matter, whenever? Totally irrelevant.
I find your position hypocritical as you claim that Newspapers should be punished for publishing untruths (untruths means not proven) about individuals who you would wish to support in some way, but the exact opposite for those who are not of your weird political beliefs. Double standards are what they call that.

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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 09:13 AM
Who cares whether or not you lived close to Eton
I witnessed the appalling behaviour and how they got away with it.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 30 2015, 09:15 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 09:13 AM
Who cares whether or not you lived close to Eton
I witnessed the appalling behaviour and how they got away with it.
Did that stimulate your class envy?

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papasmurf
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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 09:17 AM
Did that stimulate your class envy?

I don't have class envy RJD, I just don't like morons whatever their race, creed, colour, sexual orientation, social standing, class or level of income.
The current Tory front bench are very nasty bunch of morons.
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Rich
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Tigger
Sep 29 2015, 06:45 PM
Even I've got bored reading excerpts from this self serving cretins book on Cameron, what has come across is a typical wealthy Tory and it's leaving a foul smell in my nostrils.

This tosser would appear to have written this book out of nothing more than Spite and Envy, (someone should copyright that ;-)) the claims, apart from the best one of course, reek of self pitying hypocrisy on the part of Ashcroft, a man who after giving the Tory party close to eight million quid expected a cabinet position and a full voice in government. I've previously mentioned Britain is like a banana republic, and here is yet more proof.
More fool you for reading his rubbish and wasting valuable life time......please don't tell me you bought the book and further increased his bank balance?
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Steve K
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papasmurf
Sep 30 2015, 09:15 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 09:13 AM
Who cares whether or not you lived close to Eton
I witnessed the appalling behaviour and how they got away with it.
You did? Well write your own book and name the names then. Libel law is now so weak you'd get away with almost anything.

Or perhaps you saw some Eton folk who never went on to become politicians doing some of the awful things that some school kids of all social backgrounds get up to and decided to extrapolate that to irrelevant extremes.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 30 2015, 09:22 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 09:17 AM
Did that stimulate your class envy?

I don't have class envy RJD, I just don't like morons whatever their race, creed, colour, sexual orientation, social standing, class or level of income.
The current Tory front bench are very nasty bunch of morons.
But as that is your personal opinion which carries little weight.
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RJD
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Steve K
Sep 30 2015, 09:30 AM
papasmurf
Sep 30 2015, 09:15 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 09:13 AM
Who cares whether or not you lived close to Eton
I witnessed the appalling behaviour and how they got away with it.
You did? Well write your own book and name the names then. Libel law is now so weak you'd get away with almost anything.

Or perhaps you saw some Eton folk who never went on to become politicians doing some of the awful things that some school kids of all social backgrounds get up to and decided to extrapolate that to irrelevant extremes.
No only those who subsequently ever became Tory politicians ever behaved in such a despicable manner. That is "by definition".

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papasmurf
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Steve K
Sep 30 2015, 09:30 AM


Or perhaps you saw some Eton folk who never went on to become politicians doing some of the awful things that some school kids of all social backgrounds get up to and decided to extrapolate that to irrelevant extremes.
The difference was the mere mortal ended up in court, the "elite" didn't because daddy paid the damages. So the elite have got into positions of power and have never once in their lives had to suffer any consequences for their appalling behaviour. This makes them not fit for public office.
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RJD
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papasmurf
Sep 30 2015, 09:39 AM
Steve K
Sep 30 2015, 09:30 AM


Or perhaps you saw some Eton folk who never went on to become politicians doing some of the awful things that some school kids of all social backgrounds get up to and decided to extrapolate that to irrelevant extremes.
The difference was the mere mortal ended up in court, the "elite" didn't because daddy paid the damages. So the elite have got into positions of power and have never once in their lives had to suffer any consequences for their appalling behaviour. This makes them not fit for public office.
Stinks of Spite n Envy. My goodness you have a very big chip to carry on such narrow shoulders.

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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 11:28 AM
papasmurf
Sep 30 2015, 09:39 AM
Steve K
Sep 30 2015, 09:30 AM


Or perhaps you saw some Eton folk who never went on to become politicians doing some of the awful things that some school kids of all social backgrounds get up to and decided to extrapolate that to irrelevant extremes.
The difference was the mere mortal ended up in court, the "elite" didn't because daddy paid the damages. So the elite have got into positions of power and have never once in their lives had to suffer any consequences for their appalling behaviour. This makes them not fit for public office.
Stinks of Spite n Envy. My goodness you have a very big chip to carry on such narrow shoulders.



Not really. Pointing out the sense of entitlement and poor behaviour of the elite does not indicate envy or spite.
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papasmurf
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gansao
Sep 30 2015, 11:31 AM

Not really. Pointing out the sense of entitlement and poor behaviour of the elite does not indicate envy or spite.
Precisely, (and my shoulders aren't narrow, I have to fit mirrors on our motorcycles with longer stems on them so I can actually see behind and not just see my shoulders.)
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Affa
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gansao
Sep 30 2015, 11:31 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 11:28 AM
papasmurf
Sep 30 2015, 09:39 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepwho never went on to become politicians
Stinks of Spite n Envy. My goodness you have a very big chip to carry on such narrow shoulders.



Not really. Pointing out the sense of entitlement and poor behaviour of the elite does not indicate envy or spite.
My public school educated brother was in the car (age 17) driven by one such privileged youth after a nights binging, that ended up in someone's garden.
There was no prosecution ........ money resolved the issue.

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Affa
Sep 30 2015, 11:41 AM
gansao
Sep 30 2015, 11:31 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 11:28 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepwho never went on to become politicians


Not really. Pointing out the sense of entitlement and poor behaviour of the elite does not indicate envy or spite.
My public school educated brother was in the car (age 17) driven by one such privileged youth after a nights binging, that ended up in someone's garden.
There was no prosecution ........ money resolved the issue.



Well what's the point of being in the elite if the system is not rigged in your favour?
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RJD
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gansao
Sep 30 2015, 11:31 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 11:28 AM
papasmurf
Sep 30 2015, 09:39 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepwho never went on to become politicians
Stinks of Spite n Envy. My goodness you have a very big chip to carry on such narrow shoulders.



Not really. Pointing out the sense of entitlement and poor behaviour of the elite does not indicate envy or spite.
It is if you generalise. My friends son is at Harrow, they are taught to have humility and the pupils are expected to provide a service to the community.
Yes arse-holes exist, but throughout society. Trouble is that the Spite n Envy Brigade are only interested in pointing fingers at those that they loath and envy.

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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 11:59 AM
gansao
Sep 30 2015, 11:31 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 11:28 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepwho never went on to become politicians


Not really. Pointing out the sense of entitlement and poor behaviour of the elite does not indicate envy or spite.
It is if you generalise. My friends son is at Harrow, they are taught to have humility and the pupils are expected to provide a service to the community.
Yes arse-holes exist, but throughout society. Trouble is that the Spite n Envy Brigade are only interested in pointing fingers at those that they loath and envy.



Are the old ' generalisation' argument eh?
Well pointing out that there is a noticeable degree of poor behaviour among the elite institutions and that those very elite institutions create an environment
where poor behaviour can exist is not a generalistion.
For generalisations see any post from you regarding trade unions  !bgrin!
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RJD
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Affa
Sep 30 2015, 11:41 AM
gansao
Sep 30 2015, 11:31 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 11:28 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepwho never went on to become politicians


Not really. Pointing out the sense of entitlement and poor behaviour of the elite does not indicate envy or spite.
My public school educated brother was in the car (age 17) driven by one such privileged youth after a nights binging, that ended up in someone's garden.
There was no prosecution ........ money resolved the issue.

I am sure that we could dig up examples where Trade Union Leaders sons benefited from parents influence or Parish Councillors or Vicars or Headmasters. What stinks is the inference that all rich people are on the take, on the make and do not give a sh1t for anyone else when there is ample evidence to show that the opposite is true.
Although I am not a Mason, never have been, another friend was Grand Master last year, he threw a dinner paid for by him, which during the course of that evening raised £28,000 to buy a bus for the local Hospice.

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skwirked
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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 11:59 AM
gansao
Sep 30 2015, 11:31 AM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 11:28 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepwho never went on to become politicians


Not really. Pointing out the sense of entitlement and poor behaviour of the elite does not indicate envy or spite.
It is if you generalise. My friends son is at Harrow, they are taught to have humility and the pupils are expected to provide a service to the community.
Yes arse-holes exist, but throughout society. Trouble is that the Spite n Envy Brigade are only interested in pointing fingers at those that they loath and envy.

I agree with this.

But, these arseholes in question are allowed to get away with far more. The elite doing reckless things and paying out ffir others to keep schtum is well documented.
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Affa
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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 12:04 PM
Affa
Sep 30 2015, 11:41 AM
gansao
Sep 30 2015, 11:31 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepwho never went on to become politicians
My public school educated brother was in the car (age 17) driven by one such privileged youth after a nights binging, that ended up in someone's garden.
There was no prosecution ........ money resolved the issue.

I am sure that we could dig up examples where Trade Union Leaders sons benefited from parents influence or Parish Councillors or Vicars or Headmasters. What stinks is the inference that all rich people are on the take, on the make and do not give a sh1t for anyone else when there is ample evidence to show that the opposite is true.
Although I am not a Mason, never have been, another friend was Grand Master last year, he threw a dinner paid for by him, which during the course of that evening raised £28,000 to buy a bus for the local Hospice.

You're correct!
There are others that escape the due process of the law for various reasons. Even career criminals are able to get away with minor infractions ......... and I do not believe that anyone has said that all the privileged are abusive, on the take, or anti-social.
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RJD
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gansao
Sep 30 2015, 12:03 PM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 11:59 AM
gansao
Sep 30 2015, 11:31 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepwho never went on to become politicians
It is if you generalise. My friends son is at Harrow, they are taught to have humility and the pupils are expected to provide a service to the community.
Yes arse-holes exist, but throughout society. Trouble is that the Spite n Envy Brigade are only interested in pointing fingers at those that they loath and envy.



Are the old ' generalisation' argument eh?
Well pointing out that there is a noticeable degree of poor behaviour among the elite institutions and that those very elite institutions create an environment
where poor behaviour can exist is not a generalistion.
For generalisations see any post from you regarding trade unions  !bgrin!
Sorry but some here do generalise. As to my references to Trade Unions in the 1970s they were identifiable by those that made wild cat strikes or with reference to specific industries. I am on record of saying that not all Trade Unions were so destructive, but only those with a political agenda.
If you wish to open a thread claiming that Trade Unions in those times were only fighting for the preservation of jobs or the industry then I would be pleased to engage.

IPoor behaviour exists across society. We saw the kids of poor backgrounds looting and burning down shops just a few years ago. I do not recall that there was a large portion of privileged kids amongst them.

It's the Spite n Envy that stinks and it always seeps from the same quarter.

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RJD
Sep 30 2015, 12:34 PM
gansao
Sep 30 2015, 12:03 PM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 11:59 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepwho never went on to become politicians


Are the old ' generalisation' argument eh?
Well pointing out that there is a noticeable degree of poor behaviour among the elite institutions and that those very elite institutions create an environment
where poor behaviour can exist is not a generalistion.
For generalisations see any post from you regarding trade unions  !bgrin!
Sorry but some here do generalise. As to my references to Trade Unions in the 1970s they were identifiable by those that made wild cat strikes or with reference to specific industries. I am on record of saying that not all Trade Unions were so destructive, but only those with a political agenda.
If you wish to open a thread claiming that Trade Unions in those times were only fighting for the preservation of jobs or the industry then I would be pleased to engage.

IPoor behaviour exists across society. We saw the kids of poor backgrounds looting and burning down shops just a few years ago. I do not recall that there was a large portion of privileged kids amongst them.

It's the Spite n Envy that stinks and it always seeps from the same quarter.



Thank you for your pointless offer to engage in a thread posted by ME but originated by YOU but I will pass.
If you wish to make other inane and pointless offers I suggest that you dont.
As you are on record of saying that not all Trade Unions were so destructive, but only those with a political agenda ,I would be interested to know what these unions are...making you could post a thread naming them.Anyway I digress .
We were referring to YOUR claim that the statement by PS..... So the elite have got into positions of power and have never once in their lives had to suffer any consequences for their appalling behaviour. This makes them not fit for public office...was generalisation that stinks of spite and envy .
It wasnt. It was quite a balanced statement. The elite HAVE got into positions of power and many of these have had to suffer the consequences for their appalling behaviour.

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RJD
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gansao
Sep 30 2015, 04:39 PM
RJD
Sep 30 2015, 12:34 PM
gansao
Sep 30 2015, 12:03 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepwho never went on to become politicians
Sorry but some here do generalise. As to my references to Trade Unions in the 1970s they were identifiable by those that made wild cat strikes or with reference to specific industries. I am on record of saying that not all Trade Unions were so destructive, but only those with a political agenda.
If you wish to open a thread claiming that Trade Unions in those times were only fighting for the preservation of jobs or the industry then I would be pleased to engage.

IPoor behaviour exists across society. We saw the kids of poor backgrounds looting and burning down shops just a few years ago. I do not recall that there was a large portion of privileged kids amongst them.

It's the Spite n Envy that stinks and it always seeps from the same quarter.



Thank you for your pointless offer to engage in a thread posted by ME but originated by YOU but I will pass.
If you wish to make other inane and pointless offers I suggest that you dont.
As you are on record of saying that not all Trade Unions were so destructive, but only those with a political agenda ,I would be interested to know what these unions are...making you could post a thread naming them.Anyway I digress .
We were referring to YOUR claim that the statement by PS..... So the elite have got into positions of power and have never once in their lives had to suffer any consequences for their appalling behaviour. This makes them not fit for public office...was generalisation that stinks of spite and envy .
It wasnt. It was quite a balanced statement. The elite HAVE got into positions of power and many of these have had to suffer the consequences for their appalling behaviour.

Sounds like a load of unsubstantiated opinion. Oh it is, so lets leave it there if thats the best you have to offer.

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