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| Giddy are you ok, are you ok Giddy; Fantastic work Mr Chance-a-lot. | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 7 2015, 01:33 AM (1,752 Views) | |
| skwirked | Nov 7 2015, 01:33 AM Post #1 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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I'd just like to use this thread to thank the chancellor for his excellent work with regards to the following: https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/chancellor-george-osbornes-budget-2015-speech
The man is a genius. Edited by skwirked, Dec 1 2015, 07:26 AM.
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| skwirked | Nov 7 2015, 04:47 PM Post #41 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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"Yep it is a percentage. Best look at absolutes you see it is absolutes that Governments spend." What an unscientific approach..ever heard of growth and inflation? Surely comparing absolutes is a silly way of doing it? |
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| C-too | Nov 7 2015, 06:52 PM Post #42 |
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Honourable Member
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Running your mouth off with hindsight is easy. But can you tell me when any British government was in a position to deal with the meltdown ? Care to assess the drop in Gross National Income that happened thanks to the meltdown? Or the loss of GDP caused by the loss of exports due to the widespread affect of the meltdown ? We have something like a 30 deficit affect from the meltdown, can you tell me the last time that happened ? |
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| skwirked | Nov 7 2015, 06:59 PM Post #43 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Interesting post. The exact figures for the meltdown vis a vis Brown's 'profligacy'. I think we all accept that Brown did overspend, but we must remember that the Tories asked for further deregulation of the banks several times. They also indicated that they'd give tax evaders a much freer ride. The Tories have absolutely no boasting rights wrt to the economic meltdown. As C2 has rightly pointed out, the Tories have overspent many times in the past, forcing Lab to go to the IMF. There is no denying the facts; yes the ztories wren't in power but there is NO reason to believe that they would have done better than Lab, in fact the reverse is true.. |
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| Affa | Nov 7 2015, 07:07 PM Post #44 |
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Senior Member
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| Rich | Nov 7 2015, 07:18 PM Post #45 |
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Senior Member
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Hold on there a mo' MU, Ctoo's graph only described the spending patterns whereas RJD's graph describes both spending and treasury receipts and one can easily see, (even a numpty like me) that under Labour administrations, far more was spent(on the public sector) that was coming in, need I remind you of the now (in) famous phrase uttered by Mr Micawber? |
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| Rich | Nov 7 2015, 07:22 PM Post #46 |
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Senior Member
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But surely, if what you claim re deficits is true then that must be a mitigating factor, so despite that difficulty we are indeed on the road to recovery thanks to the last government and this one but as another knowledgeable poster on here has often said, if the task in hand had been front loaded we would now be reaping MORE benefits and the medicine would not be such a bitter pill to swallow. |
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| Lewis | Nov 7 2015, 07:53 PM Post #47 |
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Senior Member
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Road to what recovery? There hasn't been any to note by the Tory incompetents. The facts verify that. |
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| Malum Unus | Nov 7 2015, 08:25 PM Post #48 |
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Hater of Political Correctness and Legalese
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And now our deficit has more than doubled, much more is being spent (just not on the public sector) than is coming in and the wonderful growth so touted by RJD is built upon dropping us straight back in the shit that put us here in the first place. So aside from the poorest in our society AND the public sector getting the boot, nothing much has changed... The money is simply going somewhere else and in far greater quantities. |
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| Rich | Nov 7 2015, 08:38 PM Post #49 |
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Senior Member
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The next GE will be the proof of the pudding, in the meantime the Oldham by election will be interesting. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34702092 |
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| Deleted User | Nov 7 2015, 08:42 PM Post #50 |
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Too early . |
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| Rich | Nov 7 2015, 10:26 PM Post #51 |
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Senior Member
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For what?......change of leadership maybe? |
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| Lewis | Nov 7 2015, 10:34 PM Post #52 |
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Senior Member
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Frankly the outcome of the Oldham by-election is of little interest. Of course I would rather UKIP not do well, but will it be the end of the world as we know it if they did? I resigned my membership of Labour when Corbyn won as I don't think he is the right person to lead the party. The Labour Party is not a credible opposition at the moment to the incompetents. Given how useless the Tories have been, we desperately need a credible opposition. However I do think that they will rip themselves apart, the cracks are appearing. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 7 2015, 10:41 PM Post #53 |
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Deleted User
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Not maybe, its obvious that there will not be a change of leadership at or before the by election . Too early to be an indicator of how the next GE will pan out. At least try to keep up. |
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| Affa | Nov 7 2015, 10:48 PM Post #54 |
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Senior Member
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The best thing about Corbyn, about how he has become leader, is that he and the party are now ostensibly anti-Establishment. I say ostensibly for I am yet to be convinced if it, but the rhetoric certainly is not to suit Whitehall, the bankers, corporate powers at all ...... we hear that people matter, and that is what I applaud. If he turns out to be as false as Cameron has done since his 'Caring Conservatism' appointment to leadership I won't be surprised - if he remains true I will support him. |
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| skwirked | Nov 7 2015, 10:50 PM Post #55 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Well said. Your position mirrors my own. |
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| Affa | Nov 7 2015, 10:54 PM Post #56 |
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Senior Member
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And many more I hope! If not there is no party and nobody to represent us. |
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| skwirked | Nov 7 2015, 10:56 PM Post #57 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Yep and I will have to spoil my ballot yet again. Or agitate for kommunizt revolution (according to JCD). Let's have a peek at some more old bollocks Giddy-One spouted:
Choose debt-dependency, choose destitution, choose an absolute fscktard for PM. The original quote summed up Tory values perfectly. In a brilliant turn of events, Irvine Welsh said "there are bigger reasons to detest that tw@ than him ripping off a poxy book" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/11131680/Irvine-Welsh-not-impressed-with-George-Osborne-ripping-off-Trainspotting.html Edited by skwirked, Nov 8 2015, 08:36 AM.
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| skwirked | Nov 8 2015, 02:41 AM Post #58 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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http://www.private-eye.co.uk/mobi/issue-1404/hp-sauce
Like father like son huh? |
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| disgruntled porker | Nov 8 2015, 08:09 AM Post #59 |
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Older than most people think I am.
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Can't we go back to the high point of the thread? The bit about shagging Kate Winslett into insensibility? |
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| RJD | Nov 8 2015, 09:53 AM Post #60 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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You offer no proof. Whereas I have shown that there has been little change wrt to incomes in over 25 years. As for the riots what were they about. As for strikes what were they about? Best you look at the calm at the end of the1980s all the new jobs, higher standard of living and industrial harmony. What a relief after the chaos of the 1960s and 70s. C2 you are full of it and you are not prepared to countenance the hard done to this country by your ilk and resent the fact that it took a Tory, a woman, to force the very necessary changes. You have never ever offered an alternative solution other than appeasing the Unions and Joe Voter did not agree, he/she had had a belly full. Get used to it you are completely on the wrong side of history. The lost jobs were none-jobs, subsidised ones that were ruining our industrial economy. The reforms brought about massive increases in productivity, increased value added to manufacturing output, which a subsequent Labour Gov. kiboshed. Whinge all you like, but the rest of us are very pleased that Thatcher had the gonads to put those anarchistic Trade Unions in their place, privatised failing industries and built the platform for the UK's current successes. We do not want your type of failing old fashioned industries. Remember the fortune Wilson and Benn wasted on BSC and others? Mind you I doubt that you consider spending Taxpayer's money to no avail as a waste. For you taxing high and spending on whatever is macho, it's Socialist (dogma) and it matters not what the outcome is. |
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| C-too | Nov 8 2015, 10:06 AM Post #61 |
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Honourable Member
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![]() Chart 1 of 1 shows that before the meltdown the balance of the economy was not seriously out of kilter. It also shows a reduction of managed expenditure taking place before the meltdown, and that despite increasing current receipts. Edited by C-too, Nov 8 2015, 10:15 AM.
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| C-too | Nov 8 2015, 10:13 AM Post #62 |
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Honourable Member
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Why do you choose to make allegations while failing to supply any evidence ? Allegations are easy and although a rather cowardly form of attack, may be self satisfying for the user. |
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| C-too | Nov 8 2015, 10:22 AM Post #63 |
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Honourable Member
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Were you stuck in Germany in the 1980s listening to German knob-heads proclaiming Thatcher as "the best man in parliament" ? Your comments are an admission that you are seriously badly informed as to what happened in this country under Thatcher, I suggest YOU educate yourself on that period. You have glanced at one side of the coin, now take a look at the other side. |
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| Malum Unus | Nov 8 2015, 10:44 AM Post #64 |
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Hater of Political Correctness and Legalese
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Because, it has been shown to you and RJD time and time again, how both of you are completely ignoring facts, yet each time all of the posts have been completely rejected. RJD just goes on posting as if no-one had shown anything, and you just keep coming out with the usual 'Bias, Allegations, Opinions, ETC) Edited by Malum Unus, Nov 8 2015, 11:35 AM.
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| Steve K | Nov 8 2015, 11:34 AM Post #65 |
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Once and future cynic
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Well if it helps, you are not alone in your view of the lady in question but I fear it would be seen as a topic diversion too far. |
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| Steve K | Nov 8 2015, 11:38 AM Post #66 |
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Once and future cynic
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Well yes it does show that. Too little too late and your point ignores that the real tipping point for the UK was the end of the unsustainable household debt fuelled GDP bubble. ![]() |
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| C-too | Nov 8 2015, 11:40 AM Post #67 |
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Honourable Member
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Rejected by OPINION not by facts. Please enlighten me next time you think I have been stating something as a fact when I have been, or can be, proved conclusively wrong. |
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| C-too | Nov 8 2015, 11:45 AM Post #68 |
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Honourable Member
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The "household debt fuelled bubble" as you put it, was not the only cause of the drop in GDP. Many things fell off the cliff at the time of the meltdown. So we do need to see the full picture before we can draw a fully informed opinion. Too little too late is one way of looking at it, but if that was the direction things were going in, then corrections were taking place. One can only speculate what would have happened but for the meltdown. Edited by C-too, Nov 8 2015, 11:47 AM.
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| RJD | Nov 8 2015, 02:52 PM Post #69 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Really. Can you read a 2D graph. It shows continued divergence. It shows that in 1997 Brown inherited a cost base broadly in line with receipts and then moved it upwards during the period when the economy was enjoying sustained growth. JMK says he should have been doing the opposite, he should have been fixing the roof for the next time the Sun decided not to shine. He didn't he chose to ignore warnings. But now he has an army of white-washers out to cover his mistakes. |
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| skwirked | Nov 8 2015, 05:06 PM Post #70 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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But as I said, the Tories of that period wouldn't have done anything differently, if anything it likely would have been worse. |
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| Steve K | Nov 8 2015, 05:19 PM Post #71 |
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Once and future cynic
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well yes and no. They certainly offered little criticism of the debt fuelled boom but said instead there should have been tax cuts instead of welfare increases. Yes both would have hit trouble but when you do it's probably easier to increase taxes than cut welfare |
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| C-too | Nov 8 2015, 06:05 PM Post #72 |
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Honourable Member
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It also showed something like a ten year decline in receipts up to around 1994. With a wider gap between expenditure and receipts at that time than NL had before the meltdown. No one warned anyone that an international financial tsunami was just around the corner. Edited by C-too, Nov 8 2015, 06:08 PM.
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| skwirked | Nov 8 2015, 08:20 PM Post #73 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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"No one warned anyone that an international financial tsunami was just around the corner." I destroyed this myth before. |
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| Malum Unus | Nov 8 2015, 09:52 PM Post #74 |
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Hater of Political Correctness and Legalese
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At the risk of repeating myself:
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| skwirked | Nov 8 2015, 09:54 PM Post #75 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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I like to do things for posterity.
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 08:02 AM Post #76 |
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Honourable Member
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No you have not, because there was no pre-meltdown warning. Concerns about the economy yes, but no one forewarned about the international meltdown. So either man up and accept the reality or show your proof by producing concrete evidence of your claim. Edited by C-too, Nov 9 2015, 08:06 AM.
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 08:04 AM Post #77 |
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Honourable Member
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Instead of sniping from the background, why not provide concrete evidence that I'm wrong ? |
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| skwirked | Nov 9 2015, 08:10 AM Post #78 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Warn who? America? As it happens yes the US meltdown was predicted too. Do you dispute this? Edited by skwirked, Nov 9 2015, 08:10 AM.
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 08:16 AM Post #79 |
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Honourable Member
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I dispute your claim that people were warned that an international financial tsunami was just around the corner. I doubt very much that such was even claimed in America, but I would quite like to be informed if your have such evidence. |
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| skwirked | Nov 9 2015, 08:30 AM Post #80 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Our initial research identified three credible early warnings and we suspect that we will find more by the time we complete our research project. The most well documented predictions come from three experts. They are, in order of prediction date; Dean Baker, Med Jones and Peter Schiff Housing Bubble Sitters - A warning by Dean Baker (August 25, 2005) US Economic Risks 2007-2017 - A warning by Med Jones (June 2, 2006) International Monetary Fund Seminar - A warning by Nouriel Roubini (Sept 13, 2007) - After initially removing Dr Nouriel Roubini from the list due to lack of documented evidence. We received an email on April 19,2011 with a copy of the IMF transcript. (please see Correction Note) Fox News Debate - A warning by Peter Schiff (Dec 16, 2006) Others? If you have more information about other experts who predicted the financial crisis and gave warning before August of 2007 please email us with the information to add to the list. (see Qualification Criteria below) Who are these experts? Dean Baker is an economist who warned about the crisis earlier than all the other experts, but was mostly ignored because he went silent on the topic in 2006 & 2007. Med Jones, a strategy expert who is lesser known than the remaining expert but produced the most accurate predictions among them. Nouriel Roubini is an economist and a media darling. He is the most popular among those who predicted the crisis, although recent journalistic investigation reports challenge the date and the content of his predictions. We are still reviewing evidence to determine whether to include him or remove him from the list. (See notes below the next table) Peter Schiff is an investment manager, also widely covered by the media and is most popular with the Tea Party. He was the economic advisor of Ron Paul - A Republican Presidential Candidate - and a Tea Party favorite. The most bearish of the four is Peter Schiff. The least bearish is Med Jones. The following table compares the first documented public warnings (and predictions) by each expert, their dates and sources: Wall Street / Economic Predictions Dean Baker Date & Source Med Jones Date & Source Nouriel Roubini Date & Source Peter Schiff Date & Source Housing bubble burst, financial markets risks and the impact on the US Economy July 21, 2005 CEPR Note: (1) June 2, 2006 US Economy Risks September 7, 2006 IMF Seminar Correction Note (2) December 16, 2006 Fox News Debate It was not enough for us to take their prediction statements in isolation and judge their accuracy. We had to read a several articles (see table below comparing economic predictions) to understand the underlying thesis of each expert and see if they were consistent in their core arguments. http://www.economicpredictions.org/who-predicted-the-financial-crisis.htm |
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