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| Giddy are you ok, are you ok Giddy; Fantastic work Mr Chance-a-lot. | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 7 2015, 01:33 AM (1,751 Views) | |
| skwirked | Nov 7 2015, 01:33 AM Post #1 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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I'd just like to use this thread to thank the chancellor for his excellent work with regards to the following: https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/chancellor-george-osbornes-budget-2015-speech
The man is a genius. Edited by skwirked, Dec 1 2015, 07:26 AM.
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 09:00 AM Post #81 |
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Honourable Member
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That's an awful lot of research to look through before anyone can say the international meltdown was accurately predicted, or just put forward as a possibility, as in the case of Nouriel Roubini. If you read the preamble to Roubini's speech you will see that he was not making a forecast, he was not claiming that there would be a meltdown. That's probably why his speech was ignored. The fly in the ointment was the abuse of the sub-prime mortgages in the US. The cause of the international financial meltdown was the taking of the toxic debts caused by sub-prime abuse, wrapping it up in packages and slipping it into the international financial markets via Wall Street, thus poisoning the international financial markets. Unless one of those you posted warned about that act and the subsequent meltdown that would be the consequences of that act, then we do not have a concrete warning anywhere that an international financial tsunami was just around the corner. I await your concrete evidence. |
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| Malum Unus | Nov 9 2015, 09:16 AM Post #82 |
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Hater of Political Correctness and Legalese
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Yeah skwirked he's waiting for 'THE' evidence, detailing each and every individual economic calculation made in the years up to the financial meltdown (including any help the experts may have done for their children's maths homework, assuming they have any children), any scribblings on pieces of paper, arrangements of numbers and mathematical symbols of the magnets on their fridges, and idle musings while travelling to work. EDIT - Don't forget to include the calculations they thought through when deciding what socks to wear each morning and any personal messages from god (complete with stone tablets) and all of the above must be signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public enquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters. Edited by Malum Unus, Nov 9 2015, 11:13 AM.
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| Affa | Nov 9 2015, 10:46 AM Post #83 |
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Senior Member
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There are never not warnings. There are warnings now! Our politicians choose to believe or disbelieve these warnings based on political impact rather than on confidence of evidence. A care not for such point scoring exchanges, not here, not in the press, and certainly not in Parliament. |
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 12:53 PM Post #84 |
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Honourable Member
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Problem. Many people, politicians and economists alike in the UK, thought that financial services, not industrial exports, was the way for the UK to earn an income. There were economists and politicians who believed in the system and there were economists and politicians who did not believe in it. I do not need every individual economic calculation made to be evaluated, that would in any case be the responsibility of those who put forward those opinions. The requirement is obvious, forget opinions and show where ANYONE forecast that the toxic debts from the abuse of sub-prime mortgages in the US were going to be slipped into bundles of business and slipped into the international financial markets via Wall Street. Edited by C-too, Nov 9 2015, 12:54 PM.
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 01:03 PM Post #85 |
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Honourable Member
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The American economist Alan Greenspan is credited with saving the Dollar on three occasions. He was the economic Guru who had Thatcher's ear when she went for the ---- Deregulation/Financial Services/Free Market approach to the economy ----. An approach the helped put the skids under our industrial base. Clarifying what happened and denouncing anti-NL misleading propaganda is not "point scoring". |
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| Deleted User | Nov 9 2015, 01:06 PM Post #86 |
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The Federal Reserve chairman — an economist and a disciple of libertarian icon Ayn Rand — met his first major challenge in office by preventing the 1987 stock-market crash from spiraling into something much worse. Then, in the 1990s, he presided over a long economic and financial-market boom and attained the status of Washington's resident wizard. But the super-low interest rates Greenspan brought in the early 2000s and his long-standing disdain for regulation are now held up as leading causes of the mortgage crisis. The maestro admitted in an October congressional hearing that he had "made a mistake in presuming" that financial firms could regulate themselves. http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877331,00.html |
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| RJD | Nov 9 2015, 01:10 PM Post #87 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Latest conclusion is that it is all to do with the wine coloured socks worn by Mandelsomething. Absolutely nothing to do with spending year or year more than one can afford. Nothing to do with the markets being flooded with cheap money chasing none-credit-worthy borrowers. It is due to his socks, says so on one of the Beer Mats at the Old Red Nag. |
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 01:14 PM Post #88 |
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Honourable Member
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Yes I know. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 9 2015, 01:15 PM Post #89 |
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Yup.Neither Tories or Tory lites are worth a carrot. Spread the word in the Blue bore snug bar. |
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 01:16 PM Post #90 |
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Honourable Member
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You have definitely missed your forte.
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| Deleted User | Nov 9 2015, 01:17 PM Post #91 |
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Greenspan's ideology was suspect way before the crash..read the first line....... |
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| RJD | Nov 9 2015, 01:23 PM Post #92 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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No I use the sarcasm to put down the White-washers of truth. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 9 2015, 01:26 PM Post #93 |
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Unfunny twaddle to hide the truth more like.. |
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 02:53 PM Post #94 |
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Honourable Member
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So what ? The fact is that Greenspan had played his part long before the meltdown. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 9 2015, 03:00 PM Post #95 |
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The fact is that Greenspan played his part in the meltdown. The fact is that Greenspan was a financial maverick a disciple of Ayn Rand. He actually admits some liability in the crash. Does that not register somewhere between your ears or are you know going to post something with the words 'hindsight' in them while ignoring there was evidence that the wrong person was in the job with the wrong strategies? |
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 03:17 PM Post #96 |
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Honourable Member
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Do try and resist the childish comments. No one that I know of disputes the claim that Greenspan played his part in the meltdown. But the reality is that many politicians and many economists agreed with the situation at that time. They agreed with it because the system appeared to be working and working well. There was some criticism of what NL were doing before the meltdown, but to my knowledge there was no serious claim that the meltdown was inevitable. How could there be when no one was aware of the toxic debts being slipped into the international financial markets ? Edited by C-too, Nov 9 2015, 03:18 PM.
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| skwirked | Nov 9 2015, 03:45 PM Post #97 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Maybe this will appease you: http://intheblack.com/articles/2015/07/07/6-economists-who-predicted-the-global-financial-crisis-and-why-we-should-listen-to-them-from-now-on Irrefutable evidence by the looks of it. Do carry on though C2 your antics amuse. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 9 2015, 03:49 PM Post #98 |
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Well you didnt actually post the word hindsight but implied it. You also are peddling the same old crap that says collective stupidity equals no one is responsible. The politicians put too much responsibilty into the hands of financial corporations and were willing to follow the economic philosophy of a financial maverick. There WERE warnings..you have been given examples .However you still cannot countenance your political heroes to be complicit in or responsible for ignoring them.. |
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 04:34 PM Post #99 |
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Honourable Member
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There nothing more amusing than the straw grasping by people like yourself. Lets take "The Rising Risk of a Systemic Financial Meltdown: The 12 Steps to Financial Disaster" Roubini talks of the risk, he was not forecasting a meltdown. He could not have because he had no way of predicting toxic debts being slipped into the international financial markets. It is also likely that sub-prime mortgages in the US were becoming suspect by 2006. But the depositing of the toxic debts from sub prime mortgages being dumped on the international financial markets would not have been known. If they were known Roubini would have mentioned them. I have glanced at the comments. Those I have read refer to a recession or an increased possibility of an international financial problem. I see no reference to the Toxic Debts in those that I have read. So no one knows how things would have panned out but for the poisoning of the international financial markets by those debts. By 2005/06 even NL were beginning to cut back on borrowing, even they understood they had gone as far as they could, or maybe had even gone too far. So the concerns of the people in the article you posted all seem to have concerns that were too late to alter the course of events. "Irrefutable evidence by the looks of it" I don't think so. |
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| skwirked | Nov 9 2015, 04:39 PM Post #100 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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I could quote bits of the text to you but what's the point, there's no evidence to support my claim except everything I've linked to you. Do you want a nice cherrypicker for xmas? BOGOF on diggers and cherrypickers I hear. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 9 2015, 04:41 PM Post #101 |
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You can lead a Mule to info but you cant make it think. |
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 04:44 PM Post #102 |
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Honourable Member
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1. It should not have been necessary to point out the reality. 2. Complete nonsense. 3. He was not considered a maverick back in the 1980s. The set up appeared to be working, what more can one say ? 4. There were opinions that trouble could be looming, but they were if anything too late to be of any benefit. |
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 04:45 PM Post #103 |
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Honourable Member
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Too right, time to put your thinking cap on. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 9 2015, 04:46 PM Post #104 |
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Time to put your harness on Dobbin
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 04:49 PM Post #105 |
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Honourable Member
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There was no concrete warning of an international meltdown, so there can be no evidence of such. You have succeeded in proving yourself wrong on this occasion. Well done.
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 04:49 PM Post #106 |
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Honourable Member
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Should I borrow yours ?
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| skwirked | Nov 9 2015, 04:51 PM Post #107 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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for the laughs C2.
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| Deleted User | Nov 9 2015, 04:52 PM Post #108 |
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He was always considered a maverick ..he was a disciple of Ayn Rand ,was a monetarist 'who thought outside the loop' Jeez he extolled free market principles and self regulating markets.He was a neo liberalist from the start. Ponzi schemes always work for a time. There were warnings that were ignored. The reasons why they were ignored are debatable not the fact that they were there. |
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| skwirked | Nov 9 2015, 04:55 PM Post #109 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Perhaps by concrete evidence, he means child's scribblings that say 'big bad banker he made big collapse happen". Concrete Evidence for people with concrete for brains. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 9 2015, 04:59 PM Post #110 |
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If Tony Blair had that tattoed on his bollocks C-too would still deny it. |
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| RJD | Nov 9 2015, 05:34 PM Post #111 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Me thinks that is what you are about. |
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| Steve K | Nov 9 2015, 06:28 PM Post #112 |
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Once and future cynic
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The All New UKDebate Spot the difference competition
What's that screeching noise? |
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 06:44 PM Post #113 |
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Honourable Member
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The laugh was on you, so it's thank YOU ! |
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 06:49 PM Post #114 |
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Honourable Member
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I think it arises from the teeth of those who choose to ignore the poisoning of the international financial markets by slipping in the toxic sub-prime debts, and who choose to take note of the rather belated suggestions that an international economic problem MIGHT be around the corner. |
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 06:51 PM Post #115 |
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Honourable Member
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I thought about posting an accurate description of you and your post, I choose instead to point out how just misguided and childish your post is. |
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 06:54 PM Post #116 |
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Honourable Member
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Your thinking appears to be hiding behind a huge chunk of concrete. |
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| skwirked | Nov 9 2015, 06:59 PM Post #117 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Whatever you say C2, whatever you say. I won't be investing, I'm out.
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 07:00 PM Post #118 |
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Honourable Member
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1. Not just nonsense but now your assessment of Greenspan is dishonest nonsense. 2. Yes exactly. So ? 3. Ponzi is not in dispute. 4. The warnings suggesting economic problems seemed to arrive in the 2005/06 period when NL were already beginning to cut back. i.e. Such warnings as those posted were TOO LATE to be of any use. |
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| C-too | Nov 9 2015, 07:03 PM Post #119 |
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Honourable Member
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As you began with a fixed opinion, you should never of entered the fray. |
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| Pro Veritas | Nov 9 2015, 07:06 PM Post #120 |
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Upstanding Member
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Look. We know you have to keep telling the lie that there was no warning, because you need there to be no warning, because if there was a warning NuLab were irresponsible arseholes. Well I have news for you: NuLab were indeed irresponsible arseholes. Even without a warning there failure to fix the roof while the sun shone is ample evidence of that: you don't wait until 1 hour before the storm hits to fix the roof, you fix it the first opportunity you get, so that if that storm surprises you everything is still protected. I know you hate the idea that NuLab could ever have done anything wrong (I can only assume you have deep seated psychosexual urges about Tony Blair and Gordon Brown), but the truth is NuLab fucked up - and the continued insistence by some of them, and their supporters that they didn't fuck up is part of the reason the Tories got voted in for a second, but this time solo, term. If you want the Tories to win again in 2020 keep banging the "NuLab never did anything wrong" drum. If on the other hand you would prefer that the Tories did not get voted in start showing so contrition for the failures of NuLab. Oh, hang on. I get it now. You actually want the Tories to win because Tony B Liar was Tory Lite, and you'd rather have Tory Lite than real Labour. All The Best |
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for the laughs C2.

8:28 AM Jul 11