Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Uk Debate Mk 2, the UK's liveliest political and social debate site.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Balance of Power; World power shifts
Topic Started: Nov 19 2015, 03:45 AM (170 Views)
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
[ *  *  *  * ]
Posted Image

Quote:
 
IT IS not exactly news that the world's economic centre of gravity is shifting east. But it is striking how fast this seems to be happening.

[...]

Although the underlying maths (which involves weighting the approximate centre of landmass of a country by its GDP) has to be taken with a pinch of salt, the calculations show that the centre is rapidly shifting east—at a speed of 140 kilometres a year and thus faster than ever before in human history, according to Richard Dobbs, one of the authors of the study. The main reason for this is rapid urbanisation in developing countries, in particular China. As people are moving into cities many are becoming richer, driving further economic growth. Most of this growth will not occur in much-hyped megacities, such as Mumbai or Shanghai, but in what the authors call "middleweight cities". Few in the rich world would be able to identify these on a map. Ever heard of Foshan or Surat, for instance? (Hint: the former is China's 7th-largest city, the latter India's capital for synthetic textiles.)


http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/06/daily-chart-19

The Report.


Seems to me the shift between 00-10 has been far far greater than anyone expected.

And China's productivity is rapidly increasing as workers are given shorter hrs in which they do far more. The final result, a consumer-driven Chinese economy will be a very interesting sight to behold. What does it mean for us?

Will it be a case of our wealth now being theirs? Or will technological advancements catch up in time, ensuring that we all have a big enough slice of the pie?

Edited by skwirked, Nov 19 2015, 03:51 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
skwirked
Nov 19 2015, 03:45 AM
Posted Image

Quote:
 
IT IS not exactly news that the world's economic centre of gravity is shifting east. But it is striking how fast this seems to be happening.

[...]

Although the underlying maths (which involves weighting the approximate centre of landmass of a country by its GDP) has to be taken with a pinch of salt, the calculations show that the centre is rapidly shifting east—at a speed of 140 kilometres a year and thus faster than ever before in human history, according to Richard Dobbs, one of the authors of the study. The main reason for this is rapid urbanisation in developing countries, in particular China. As people are moving into cities many are becoming richer, driving further economic growth. Most of this growth will not occur in much-hyped megacities, such as Mumbai or Shanghai, but in what the authors call "middleweight cities". Few in the rich world would be able to identify these on a map. Ever heard of Foshan or Surat, for instance? (Hint: the former is China's 7th-largest city, the latter India's capital for synthetic textiles.)


http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/06/daily-chart-19

The Report.


Seems to me the shift between 00-10 has been far far greater than anyone expected.

And China's productivity is rapidly increasing as workers are given shorter hrs in which they do far more. The final result, a consumer-driven Chinese economy will be a very interesting sight to behold. What does it mean for us?

Will it be a case of our wealth now being theirs? Or will technological advancements catch up in time, ensuring that we all have a big enough slice of the pie?

Yep and wrt to the EZ many are predicting that the cg is moving rapidly towards London and that the UK will be the economic powerhouse of Europe by 2030. Germany is predicted to go into rapid decline losing ~6m of it's productive population whilst the UK gains more.

Interesting graphic. The future is Asia and there will be problems there as well.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Will it be a case of our wealth now being theirs? Or will technological advancements catch up in time, ensuring that we all have a big enough slice of the pie?

I think that our wealth will gravitate East. Asian soft power will overcome Western gunboat diplomacy.
Western paper shuffling and services will not be enough to sustain it.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
gansao
Nov 19 2015, 11:14 AM
Will it be a case of our wealth now being theirs? Or will technological advancements catch up in time, ensuring that we all have a big enough slice of the pie?

I think that our wealth will gravitate East. Asian soft power will overcome Western gunboat diplomacy.
Western paper shuffling and services will not be enough to sustain it.
Services are not a waste of time and effort they also create wealth, they also generate good profit margins and penetrate markets more easily and rapidly. This idea that metal bashing is good and insurance etc. is worthless just highlights the ignorance of many. They forget that "Services" have been the major part of our GDP for more than 100 years.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

RJD
Nov 19 2015, 12:34 PM
gansao
Nov 19 2015, 11:14 AM
Will it be a case of our wealth now being theirs? Or will technological advancements catch up in time, ensuring that we all have a big enough slice of the pie?

I think that our wealth will gravitate East. Asian soft power will overcome Western gunboat diplomacy.
Western paper shuffling and services will not be enough to sustain it.
Services are not a waste of time and effort they also create wealth, they also generate good profit margins and penetrate markets more easily and rapidly. This idea that metal bashing is good and insurance etc. is worthless just highlights the ignorance of many. They forget that "Services" have been the major part of our GDP for more than 100 years.


They remember that Western manufacturing was largely exported Eastward since the 70s .
They never said insurance etc is worthless which highlights your own dishonesty.
They know that that services can slip Eastwards as quickly as manufacturing which would lead the West into the third world.
It doesnt matter to you because you will be dead soon but to the young it matters a lot.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Affa
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
If the flow of corporate investment eastwards was stopped, reversed, then so would the wealth being created return to where it has been acquired.
Money made in the West has been funnelled to the East ...... to their gain, our loss.
All with the compliance of our own elected governments!

You probably voted for it!

Edited by Affa, Nov 19 2015, 03:28 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
gansao
Nov 19 2015, 03:18 PM
RJD
Nov 19 2015, 12:34 PM
gansao
Nov 19 2015, 11:14 AM
Will it be a case of our wealth now being theirs? Or will technological advancements catch up in time, ensuring that we all have a big enough slice of the pie?

I think that our wealth will gravitate East. Asian soft power will overcome Western gunboat diplomacy.
Western paper shuffling and services will not be enough to sustain it.
Services are not a waste of time and effort they also create wealth, they also generate good profit margins and penetrate markets more easily and rapidly. This idea that metal bashing is good and insurance etc. is worthless just highlights the ignorance of many. They forget that "Services" have been the major part of our GDP for more than 100 years.


They remember that Western manufacturing was largely exported Eastward since the 70s .
They never said insurance etc is worthless which highlights your own dishonesty.
They know that that services can slip Eastwards as quickly as manufacturing which would lead the West into the third world.
It doesnt matter to you because you will be dead soon but to the young it matters a lot.
I wish for more manufacturing contribution, but that will not come our way by prayer. My point was well explained and a rebuttal of the constant claim by a number of Usuals that services are of little value and London is full of spivs. What are you proposing we do not only to retain what manufacturing we have but attract new investment in such? Increase corporation taxes perhaps?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
Affa
Nov 19 2015, 03:27 PM
If the flow of corporate investment eastwards was stopped, reversed, then so would the wealth being created return to where it has been acquired.
Money made in the West has been funnelled to the East ...... to their gain, our loss.
All with the compliance of our own elected governments!

You probably voted for it!

Certainly not as such investment monies do not belong to the State. Why would I vote for inane Politicians directing where investment should take place and probably offer themselves to manage such? Tried that and it was a massive failure. We have no options other than to embrace that which we have signed up for and that is a global capitalist market place. Fortress UK would not last more than 6 months.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

RJD
Nov 19 2015, 04:18 PM
gansao
Nov 19 2015, 03:18 PM
RJD
Nov 19 2015, 12:34 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepWill it be a case of our wealth now being theirs? Or will technological advancements catch up in time, ensuring that we all have a big enough slice of the pie?


They remember that Western manufacturing was largely exported Eastward since the 70s .
They never said insurance etc is worthless which highlights your own dishonesty.
They know that that services can slip Eastwards as quickly as manufacturing which would lead the West into the third world.
It doesnt matter to you because you will be dead soon but to the young it matters a lot.
I wish for more manufacturing contribution, but that will not come our way by prayer. My point was well explained and a rebuttal of the constant claim by a number of Usuals that services are of little value and London is full of spivs. What are you proposing we do not only to retain what manufacturing we have but attract new investment in such? Increase corporation taxes perhaps?


You had no point.No one said that insurance etc is worthless and calling manufacturing 'metal bashing' makes you no better than the ones you deride.

Proposals to retain what manufacturing we have? Lets drive down wages , pretend that there is adequate vocational training around knowing when the truth is that there is far too little and spend our precious resources bailing out financial institutions run by those spivs you were on about? That should do for a start.


http://w11.zetaboards.com/UK_Debate_Mk_2/topic/11420441/1/


Rain Newton-Smith, CBI director for economics, said: "Poor export performance is weighing on the UK economy, as manufacturers are held back by a strong pound and a weakening global growth outlook.

"To ensure UK manufacturers can pack a punch on the world stage, business will want to see the Government prioritise areas of growth enhancing spending – on exports, infrastructure, skills and innovation – in next week's Spending Review.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
AndyK
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
skwirked
Nov 19 2015, 03:45 AM
Posted Image

Quote:
 
IT IS not exactly news that the world's economic centre of gravity is shifting east. But it is striking how fast this seems to be happening.

[...]

Although the underlying maths (which involves weighting the approximate centre of landmass of a country by its GDP) has to be taken with a pinch of salt, the calculations show that the centre is rapidly shifting east—at a speed of 140 kilometres a year and thus faster than ever before in human history, according to Richard Dobbs, one of the authors of the study. The main reason for this is rapid urbanisation in developing countries, in particular China. As people are moving into cities many are becoming richer, driving further economic growth. Most of this growth will not occur in much-hyped megacities, such as Mumbai or Shanghai, but in what the authors call "middleweight cities". Few in the rich world would be able to identify these on a map. Ever heard of Foshan or Surat, for instance? (Hint: the former is China's 7th-largest city, the latter India's capital for synthetic textiles.)


http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/06/daily-chart-19

The Report.


Seems to me the shift between 00-10 has been far far greater than anyone expected.

And China's productivity is rapidly increasing as workers are given shorter hrs in which they do far more. The final result, a consumer-driven Chinese economy will be a very interesting sight to behold. What does it mean for us?

Will it be a case of our wealth now being theirs? Or will technological advancements catch up in time, ensuring that we all have a big enough slice of the pie?

There are finite resources, the only way for the Chinese and Indians to getter richer is for everyone else to get poorer.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
gansao
Nov 19 2015, 06:30 PM
RJD
Nov 19 2015, 04:18 PM
gansao
Nov 19 2015, 03:18 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepWill it be a case of our wealth now being theirs? Or will technological advancements catch up in time, ensuring that we all have a big enough slice of the pie?
I wish for more manufacturing contribution, but that will not come our way by prayer. My point was well explained and a rebuttal of the constant claim by a number of Usuals that services are of little value and London is full of spivs. What are you proposing we do not only to retain what manufacturing we have but attract new investment in such? Increase corporation taxes perhaps?


You had no point.No one said that insurance etc is worthless and calling manufacturing 'metal bashing' makes you no better than the ones you deride.

Proposals to retain what manufacturing we have? Lets drive down wages , pretend that there is adequate vocational training around knowing when the truth is that there is far too little and spend our precious resources bailing out financial institutions run by those spivs you were on about? That should do for a start.


http://w11.zetaboards.com/UK_Debate_Mk_2/topic/11420441/1/


Rain Newton-Smith, CBI director for economics, said: "Poor export performance is weighing on the UK economy, as manufacturers are held back by a strong pound and a weakening global growth outlook.

"To ensure UK manufacturers can pack a punch on the world stage, business will want to see the Government prioritise areas of growth enhancing spending – on exports, infrastructure, skills and innovation – in next week's Spending Review.
I think you should have noted by now that I am all for more manufacturing, high value added manufacturing, but for that to happen requires a work-force with greater skills and an economic environment for investment. The value of the £Sterling is a market rate, it is a commodity and I do not wish to see the Gov. manipulating this by printing more money. The DM rode high in the 1970s and 80s and German manufacturers plus Unions rose to the challenge and improved productivity. I am all for such investments, but not directed by idiot Politicians.

I warned here, a few years ago, that NetworkRail, that quasi-nationalised company, was failing big time. Read today's report and wonder why many think such a model would be good for the railways and utilities? They are a total disaster and worse than RailTrack the company they replaced and that must have been difficult. Now when you read the report on NetworkRail keep the "NHS" uppermost in your mind.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · Politics · Next Topic »
Add Reply