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Corporate Welfare; Corps Leeching off Taxpayer
Topic Started: Nov 20 2015, 12:48 AM (855 Views)
skwirked
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Then this sh1t happens, because the cash is wasted on corporate welfare and other needless bs.
Edited by skwirked, Nov 20 2015, 12:35 PM.
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Rich
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Tigger
Nov 23 2015, 11:20 PM
Rich
Nov 23 2015, 11:08 PM
Then you had best get the global financial market to morally gaze at it's navel.....good luck with that little task.
Apart from the City of London Britain has 11 offshore tax havens, sadly and despite this Cameron has said he cannot force these havens to come clean or divest information that would go a long way to preventing the exporting of tax liabilities.

Once again someone will have to do the job we are unwilling to do, and of course Cameron himself is a fucking hypocrite of the highest order when he made the comment that Britain is no place for dirty money.
Take a look at Luxembourg.
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skwirked
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Take a look at the rest of Europe especially the Scandinavian countries (not all of them rely purely on nat resources). We are the navel gazers, or should that be floor gazers?
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RJD
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Affa
Nov 23 2015, 08:42 PM
ACH1967
Nov 23 2015, 01:41 PM
Affa
Nov 23 2015, 01:14 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
You may view “exported jobs crap as BS.” But that is a view whereas manufacturing departing these shores for lower cost production countries is a verifiable fact.

A country has to earn money to spend money on imported goods. If the work gets off shored that is less money earned to spend on imports. The last bubble and the next bubble are as a result of borrowing to spend. The economy needs rebalancing and pushing more jobs offshore will not achieve that. What RJD said about the NLW and risks was quite sensible and measured.

This comment “take the blue specs off” is really childish and completely unnecessary.
lol
They'd have a tough time exporting counter serving jobs at McDonalds, same for office cleaners and a miriad of other NMW jobs ......... the 'specs' comment is defining, is valid!

True, to some extent some service type jobs are always required, but your statement that indicated that all jobs lost were replaced by new ones is no universal truth. In an economic downturn unemployment numbers grow.
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RJD
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Rich
Nov 24 2015, 12:17 AM
Tigger
Nov 23 2015, 11:20 PM
Rich
Nov 23 2015, 11:08 PM
Then you had best get the global financial market to morally gaze at it's navel.....good luck with that little task.
Apart from the City of London Britain has 11 offshore tax havens, sadly and despite this Cameron has said he cannot force these havens to come clean or divest information that would go a long way to preventing the exporting of tax liabilities.

Once again someone will have to do the job we are unwilling to do, and of course Cameron himself is a fucking hypocrite of the highest order when he made the comment that Britain is no place for dirty money.
Take a look at Luxembourg.
No statement of how Cameron is supposed to achieve that objective. I suppose he thinks we should bomb those havens?
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ACH1967
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Affa
Nov 23 2015, 08:42 PM
ACH1967
Nov 23 2015, 01:41 PM
Affa
Nov 23 2015, 01:14 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
You may view “exported jobs crap as BS.” But that is a view whereas manufacturing departing these shores for lower cost production countries is a verifiable fact.

A country has to earn money to spend money on imported goods. If the work gets off shored that is less money earned to spend on imports. The last bubble and the next bubble are as a result of borrowing to spend. The economy needs rebalancing and pushing more jobs offshore will not achieve that. What RJD said about the NLW and risks was quite sensible and measured.

This comment “take the blue specs off” is really childish and completely unnecessary.
lol
They'd have a tough time exporting counter serving jobs at McDonalds, same for office cleaners and a miriad of other NMW jobs ......... the 'specs' comment is defining, is valid!

Which was why in my earlier post I said that it depended on the type of job. I agree that something would be possible for those working in the domestic market. This would be inflationary. Perhaps even a case of giving with one hand and taking away with the other because I could hazard a guess at the demographics of those eating at McDonalds.

Still throwing around ad hominems, very mature that. I will just stick to pointing this and not lowering myself to play ground antics.

The example was about workers in export markets. Can I take it then that you are perfectly happy for them to loose there jobs. Perhaps you do not work in an export market.
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RJD
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ACH1967
Nov 24 2015, 09:21 AM
Affa
Nov 23 2015, 08:42 PM
ACH1967
Nov 23 2015, 01:41 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
lol
They'd have a tough time exporting counter serving jobs at McDonalds, same for office cleaners and a miriad of other NMW jobs ......... the 'specs' comment is defining, is valid!

Which was why in my earlier post I said that it depended on the type of job. I agree that something would be possible for those working in the domestic market. This would be inflationary. Perhaps even a case of giving with one hand and taking away with the other because I could hazard a guess at the demographics of those eating at McDonalds.

Still throwing around ad hominems, very mature that. I will just stick to pointing this and not lowering myself to play ground antics.

The example was about workers in export markets. Can I take it then that you are perfectly happy for them to loose there jobs. Perhaps you do not work in an export market.
Does he, has he ever worked or worked in such? I have my doubts.
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Tigger
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Rich
Nov 24 2015, 12:17 AM
Take a look at Luxembourg.
What sort of half arsed answer is that? :'(

London and our tax havens are awash with Arab money and the ill gotten gains of dictators, time we started putting lives and morals above dodgy cash.

And remember, if you can, two wrongs do not make a right.
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skwirked
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Tigger
Nov 24 2015, 09:29 PM
Rich
Nov 24 2015, 12:17 AM
Take a look at Luxembourg.
What sort of half arsed answer is that? :'(

London and our tax havens are awash with Arab money and the ill gotten gains of dictators, time we started putting lives and morals above dodgy cash.

And remember, if you can, two wrongs do not make a right.
Have you noticed no one has seen fit to refute the sources in the report?

No one has anything to say about my proof that shows banks, energy companies and other corporations understating profits and yet they have strong dismissive opinions anyway? :rubchin:

The report stands.
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Tigger
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RJD
Nov 24 2015, 08:44 AM
No statement of how Cameron is supposed to achieve that objective. I suppose he thinks we should bomb those havens?
Dumb insolence?

Cameron could easily order OUR tax havens to be more open and regulate them properly, but he has no intention whatsoever of doing that, you know it and I know it.
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Tigger
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skwirked
Nov 24 2015, 09:31 PM
Have you noticed no one has seen fit to refute the sources in the report?

Because they can't, instead all we get is dreary ripostes that tell us others do stuff as well so therefore it's partially excusable.

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AndyK
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skwirked
Nov 20 2015, 12:15 PM
Actually it's a bit of both ACH, I think some SMEs on the breadline probably do survive with their workers on tax creds.

But it is a fact that big corporations with large profits use workers on tax creds too.
Roads are corporate welfare as they enable businesses to operate.
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skwirked
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If you mean claims against road tax to reduce it then sure why not? ;)
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Tigger
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AndyK
Nov 24 2015, 09:41 PM
Roads are corporate welfare as they enable businesses to operate.
But they also allow everyone else to "operate".


Think of efficient transport links as an investment rather that an irksome cost.......  ::)
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Rich
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Tigger
Nov 24 2015, 09:29 PM
Rich
Nov 24 2015, 12:17 AM
Take a look at Luxembourg.
What sort of half arsed answer is that? :'(

London and our tax havens are awash with Arab money and the ill gotten gains of dictators, time we started putting lives and morals above dodgy cash.

And remember, if you can, two wrongs do not make a right.
iT IS "SORT OF HALF FUCKING ARSED" BECAUSE UNLESS THE WHOLE FUCKING GLOBE DECIDES TO PUT A FUCKING STOP TO IT, IT IS NO GOOD ONE SINGLE FUCKING COUNTRY TRYING TO DO SO

GOT IT?!!!
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Tigger
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Rich
Nov 24 2015, 10:01 PM
iT IS "SORT OF HALF FUCKING ARSED" BECAUSE UNLESS THE WHOLE FUCKING GLOBE DECIDES TO PUT A FUCKING STOP TO IT, IT IS NO GOOD ONE SINGLE FUCKING COUNTRY TRYING TO DO SO

GOT IT?!!!
No I haven't got it, because once again you prefer simplistic and childlike parables that absolve financial crooks from any responsibility.

As the LARGEST HOLDER OF OFFSHORE TAX HAVENS the UK is a prime position to do something about it. Got that this time?

You can get off your knees now..................
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AndyK
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Tigger
Nov 24 2015, 09:29 PM
Rich
Nov 24 2015, 12:17 AM
Take a look at Luxembourg.
What sort of half arsed answer is that? :'(

London and our tax havens are awash with Arab money and the ill gotten gains of dictators, time we started putting lives and morals above dodgy cash.

And remember, if you can, two wrongs do not make a right.
Dirty money, clean money, what's the difference?

http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/the-pfizer-allergan-merger-is-a-disgrace
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skwirked
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AndyK
Nov 24 2015, 10:53 PM
Tigger
Nov 24 2015, 09:29 PM
Rich
Nov 24 2015, 12:17 AM
Take a look at Luxembourg.
What sort of half arsed answer is that? :'(

London and our tax havens are awash with Arab money and the ill gotten gains of dictators, time we started putting lives and morals above dodgy cash.

And remember, if you can, two wrongs do not make a right.
Dirty money, clean money, what's the difference?

http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/the-pfizer-allergan-merger-is-a-disgrace
True!

There has to be some limit though. We can't all be like Switzerland in WWII or do you disagree?

I know RJD does! He thinks the Swiss were OK to take Nazi gold.

Are you an amoral spiv or a minority compassionate atory?
Edited by skwirked, Nov 24 2015, 10:57 PM.
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Tigger
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AndyK
Nov 24 2015, 10:53 PM
Criminally obtained money or cash looted by dictators for example?

Wasn't hard was it.........
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Lewis
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Rich
Nov 24 2015, 10:01 PM
Tigger
Nov 24 2015, 09:29 PM
Rich
Nov 24 2015, 12:17 AM
Take a look at Luxembourg.
What sort of half arsed answer is that? :'(

London and our tax havens are awash with Arab money and the ill gotten gains of dictators, time we started putting lives and morals above dodgy cash.

And remember, if you can, two wrongs do not make a right.
iT IS "SORT OF HALF FUCKING ARSED" BECAUSE UNLESS THE WHOLE FUCKING GLOBE DECIDES TO PUT A FUCKING STOP TO IT, IT IS NO GOOD ONE SINGLE FUCKING COUNTRY TRYING TO DO SO

GOT IT?!!!
Nice sentence, the man manages to use the word 'fucking' four times. Very impressive.
Edited by Lewis, Nov 25 2015, 08:11 AM.
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skwirked
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Caps lock is cruise control for cool people. 8)
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Affa
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ACH1967
Nov 24 2015, 09:21 AM


Still throwing around ad hominems, very mature that. I will just stick to pointing this and not lowering myself to play ground antics.

The example was about workers in export markets. Can I take it then that you are perfectly happy for them to loose there jobs. Perhaps you do not work in an export market.

You said you would stick to pointing out my error, and then carried on by making presumptions about what 'makes me happy', and inferring people losing their jobs .... am I correct?
But I take your point earlier made ........ it has become apparent to me that implying that someone has a Tory mindset is indeed offensive and against the rules.
Can I be confident that the use of 'lefty', 'Red Nag', 'the Usuals' receives the same consideration?
I withdraw the suggestion that was made ..... offensive to you as it was.

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Rich
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Tigger
Nov 24 2015, 10:12 PM
Rich
Nov 24 2015, 10:01 PM
iT IS "SORT OF HALF FUCKING ARSED" BECAUSE UNLESS THE WHOLE FUCKING GLOBE DECIDES TO PUT A FUCKING STOP TO IT, IT IS NO GOOD ONE SINGLE FUCKING COUNTRY TRYING TO DO SO

GOT IT?!!!
No I haven't got it, because once again you prefer simplistic and childlike parables that absolve financial crooks from any responsibility.

As the LARGEST HOLDER OF OFFSHORE TAX HAVENS the UK is a prime position to do something about it. Got that this time?

You can get off your knees now..................
Ok, so the UK makes a law that shuts down these tax havens....what then?
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ACH1967
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Affa
Nov 24 2015, 11:42 PM
ACH1967
Nov 24 2015, 09:21 AM


Still throwing around ad hominems, very mature that. I will just stick to pointing this and not lowering myself to play ground antics.

The example was about workers in export markets. Can I take it then that you are perfectly happy for them to loose there jobs. Perhaps you do not work in an export market.

You said you would stick to pointing out my error, and then carried on by making presumptions about what 'makes me happy', and inferring people losing their jobs .... am I correct?
But I take your point earlier made ........ it has become apparent to me that implying that someone has a Tory mindset is indeed offensive and against the rules.
Can I be confident that the use of 'lefty', 'Red Nag', 'the Usuals' receives the same consideration?
I withdraw the suggestion that was made ..... offensive to you as it was.

Yes I was trying hard to behave myself but as is evident it's easy to fall off the wagon. It just helps if we don't do those things but we all do on occasion.
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RJD
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AndyK
Nov 24 2015, 10:53 PM
Tigger
Nov 24 2015, 09:29 PM
Rich
Nov 24 2015, 12:17 AM
Take a look at Luxembourg.
What sort of half arsed answer is that? :'(

London and our tax havens are awash with Arab money and the ill gotten gains of dictators, time we started putting lives and morals above dodgy cash.

And remember, if you can, two wrongs do not make a right.
Dirty money, clean money, what's the difference?

http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/the-pfizer-allergan-merger-is-a-disgrace
We should not touch any of that money that is proven to be dirty, in fact we should help burn it. However, Rich is correct we can only control such effectively with international coordinated cooperation. It really is difficult to determine the cleanliness of funds that cross and number of borders electronically, by SWIFT, in a jiffy.

In my experience, which is limited, the British Banks tend to operate with higher standards. A Swiss Banker, Manager of the Zurich Branch of a very well known UK Bank, which I privately in the UK Banked with, once told me at a Fund Raiser, in the early 1990s, of a Russian who that morning had tried to deposit a very large suitcase of $US. He was told to go elsewhere and the Police duly informed. I understood that this was not a one off event and that the man would find a Bank to take the money but not a British one and certainly never in the UK.

That said we need Osborne to continually push for greater international cooperation. Thank goodness at last we have a Gov. that takes this matter seriously. The hater of all things English and especially London ought to develop a less myopic understanding of how the World works especially in Germany, Switzerland and Italy.


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Tigger
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Rich
Nov 25 2015, 01:41 AM
Ok, so the UK makes a law that shuts down these tax havens....what then?
For a starters a lot of it would not find a home anywhere else, secondly we'd not be aiding and abetting crooks, dictators and corrupt businessmen and thirdly if we carry on pretending to clamp down on money laundering, whilst doing the exact opposite we will eventually piss off a major nation or trading bloc and be crushed under the weight of the economic retribution.

It's immoral, it's wrong and it tarnishes the reputation of this country.
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skwirked
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Tigger
Nov 24 2015, 09:34 PM
skwirked
Nov 24 2015, 09:31 PM
Have you noticed no one has seen fit to refute the sources in the report?

Because they can't, instead all we get is dreary ripostes that tell us others do stuff as well so therefore it's partially excusable.

More bullshine nonsense links that no one should read.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2287216/Revealed-One-UKs-companies-pay-tax.html

An excerpt.


EXPERIAN
Profits £454 million
What they pay in UK tax -159 million pound they get 159 million in tax credits


VODAFONE
Profits £9.5 BILLION
What they pay in UK tax -4 million pound they get 4 million in tax credits

ROLLS ROYCE GROUP
Profit £1.1 BILLION
What they pay in UK tax -2 million pound they get 2 million in tax credits

RSA insurance
Profits £613 million
What they pay in UK tax -8 million pound they get 8 million in tax credits

G4S
Profits £279 million
What they pay in UK tax -8 million pound they get 8 million in tax credits

IMI
Profit £301 million
What they pay in UK tax -1.6 million pound they get 1.6 million in tax credits

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ACH1967
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Tigger
Nov 25 2015, 10:17 PM
Rich
Nov 25 2015, 01:41 AM
Ok, so the UK makes a law that shuts down these tax havens....what then?
For a starters a lot of it would not find a home anywhere else, secondly we'd not be aiding and abetting crooks, dictators and corrupt businessmen and thirdly if we carry on pretending to clamp down on money laundering, whilst doing the exact opposite we will eventually piss off a major nation or trading bloc and be crushed under the weight of the economic retribution.

It's immoral, it's wrong and it tarnishes the reputation of this country.
"For starters a lot of it would not find a home anywhere else"

What leads you to believe this?
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papasmurf
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This is a situation that needs to be addressed, but I can't see a Tory government doing so.

http://www.smeinsider.com/2015/11/16/almost-half-of-ftse-350-companies-pay-less-than-20-corporation-tax/

Almost half of FTSE 350 companies pay less than 20% corporation tax
16 Nov 15 | Author Fraser Simpson

By Calum Fuller, of sister publication Accountancy Age


Almost half of the UK’s largest quoted companies are paying less than the current effective rate of 20 per cent in corporation tax, according to research by top 20 accountancy firm MHA MacIntyre Hudson.



Combined untaxed profits totalled over £6bn

The firm’s research had to exclude 34 FTSE 350 companies because companies had posted financial losses in their most recently published full year accounts. But out of the remaining 316 companies, 144 FTSE 350 companies eligible to pay corporation tax – around 46 per cent – were paying below the current maximum 20 per cent rate.

There were 36 FTSE 350 companies which posted profits before tax but had paid no corporation tax at all. Of these 36 companies, their combined untaxed profits totalled £6.243bn. If these profits had been taxed at 20 per cent, it would have added an extra £1.25bn to the nation’s coffers.

Some 85 companies paid below 5 per cent tax on profits, while a further eight companies paid less than 10 per cent tax on their profits.

With corporation tax rates due to fall to 19 per cent in 2017 and 18 per cent in 2020 and with GDP growth inching back to 0.5 per cent for the latest reported quarter, the chancellor is under enormous pressure to maximize receipts from across the whole tax spectrum.
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RJD
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ACH1967
Nov 30 2015, 12:22 PM
Tigger
Nov 25 2015, 10:17 PM
Rich
Nov 25 2015, 01:41 AM
Ok, so the UK makes a law that shuts down these tax havens....what then?
For a starters a lot of it would not find a home anywhere else, secondly we'd not be aiding and abetting crooks, dictators and corrupt businessmen and thirdly if we carry on pretending to clamp down on money laundering, whilst doing the exact opposite we will eventually piss off a major nation or trading bloc and be crushed under the weight of the economic retribution.

It's immoral, it's wrong and it tarnishes the reputation of this country.
"For starters a lot of it would not find a home anywhere else"

What leads you to believe this?
I think he dreams it up. You can open Bank Accounts across the globe in a jiffy and transfer funds in seconds. Much of this dirty money becomes sanitised by exchanging such for the ownership of assets. That said the UK has littler direct control or influence over Banks that are prepared to accept such money as they are nearly all way beyond our reach.
Quote:
 
Cayman Islands, is now the 5th largest financial centre in the world after London, New York, Tokyo and Zurich. There, in just one office, Ugland House, in George Town, the capital, which houses a legal practice 18,800 corporations alone are registered.
What powers has the UK Treasury over Cayman Islands?

If the poster has an information to back up his claims the best he contacts the National Crime Agency which appears to be hot on the trail of such dirty money laundering. That said the process of laundering dirty money needs to be clamped down upon and there is little evidence of the conspiracy to aid and abet such. I think the Poster needs to put some zinc foil inside his hard hat.

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skwirked
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According to the serial whitewasher, there is very little financial misconduct taking place and it was ethically sound for the Swiss to take Nazi gold. The hypocrisy and el bollocksio is astounding.
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papasmurf
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skwirked
Dec 1 2015, 08:21 AM
According to the serial whitewasher, there is very little financial misconduct taking place and it was ethically sound for the Swiss to take Nazi gold. The hypocrisy and el bollocksio is astounding.
That is why I have him on ignore.
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