| Welcome to Uk Debate Mk 2, the UK's liveliest political and social debate site. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Tom Watson Apology | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Oct 22 2015, 03:00 PM (283 Views) | |
| Affa | Oct 22 2015, 03:00 PM Post #1 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Tom Watson has apologised to the widow of Lord Brittan for repeating the description he was given by one of his (Lord Brittan) accusers ("close to evil"). He "regrets" having done so, regrets the upset it has caused for his family. David Cameron said he must go further and "examine his conscience about whether he's said enough so far" and said he had "a lot of questions to answer" Will David Cameron apologise for describing J Corbyn as "a threat to our national security, our economic security and your family's security"? When politics are the reason for such exchanges being made, criticisms levelled, and posturing at play, shouldn't the PM be setting a good example of behaviour? As an aside; if it were not for Tom Watson we would not know of the organised paedophile activities of the past, nor of the coverup involving the MET. I understand that former MET officers have contacted TW detailing their own suspicions of a top level cover up and that there are currently 19 investigations ongoing regarding MET failures/corruption. Hounding the Corbyn tribe is now a favourite sport of the National press .... hypocrites that they are. Edited by Affa, Oct 22 2015, 03:03 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Replies: | |
|---|---|
| Steve K | Oct 24 2015, 11:05 AM Post #81 |
|
Once and future cynic
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
So are you both still of the delusion that there have been no false claims? |
![]() |
|
| skwirked | Oct 24 2015, 11:06 AM Post #82 |
|
On Enforced Vacation
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
False argument Mr Kelloggs. |
![]() |
|
| Tigger | Oct 24 2015, 11:08 AM Post #83 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Irrelevant, despite being implicated long before his death there were plenty of people quite happy to fob off any attempts to get information, if Brittain was indeed innocent of anything other than mislaying a crucial document there was no attempt during his later months to clarify the situation. Insensitive? Yes, Morally wrong? No. |
![]() |
|
| Tigger | Oct 24 2015, 11:13 AM Post #84 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
We don't know this for certain, we have still not had proper disclosure. Several people have contradicted the official line and if the truth be told we are unlikely to see any damning evidence because despite much of this now falling under the thirty year rule it would now appear it comes under the official secrets act which has no statute of limitation. A cynic might say how convenient.............. |
![]() |
|
| Steve K | Oct 24 2015, 11:16 AM Post #85 |
|
Once and future cynic
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Perhaps because the title of the thread is all about him and his (limp) apology. Had you not noticed that? |
![]() |
|
| Steve K | Oct 24 2015, 11:19 AM Post #86 |
|
Once and future cynic
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
if you two insist on juvenile posting on a serious topic you'll forgive me if I only respond to serious posters. |
![]() |
|
| Tigger | Oct 24 2015, 11:19 AM Post #87 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Politically biased bullshit, the allegations are not just against Conservative MP's but against all parties and other senior establishment figures, the fact Tory Zac Goldsmith has made similar allegations that an establishment paedo ring operated in his constituency has not attracted the same ire as the fat bloke without a home counties accent. You should stick to dead heading roses and dispensing Worthers Originals.
|
![]() |
|
| Tigger | Oct 24 2015, 11:24 AM Post #88 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Yet more pedanticism? Why am I not surprised! Yes I did notice the thread title which doubtless was intended to stimulate some debate on the various ins and outs of the case, but now it's taken a turn for the worse for those happy to bash Watson we need reminding of the rules and the need to stay exactly on topic.......
|
![]() |
|
| Tigger | Oct 24 2015, 11:30 AM Post #89 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
No one is saying that there has been no mistakes, what IS being said is we are not getting the FULL STORY,and you CANNOT clear those being named if we are not allowed to see certain documents, perhaps you'd like to explain why May's inquest has "accidentally" deleted the testimony of scores of alleged victims? And you must of heard the one about the thing swims, and quacks? We get glimpses but not the full picture, sadly you need to check out the media that is not based here for further information. |
![]() |
|
| Affa | Oct 24 2015, 11:36 AM Post #90 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Would you say that the MET, or anyone else that diligently pursued suspect paedophiles as Witch hunters? |
![]() |
|
| skwirked | Oct 24 2015, 11:40 AM Post #91 |
|
On Enforced Vacation
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Tom apologised FFS, can't see some politicians being big enough to admit to their mistakes? Me I probably would have gotten the sack as an MP for launching myself at the people covering this sordid affair up, no it's really NOT OK. No this 'lie' is nothing compared to the suffering of the victims and the people who think that these MPs deserve the benefit if the doubt are a fucking disgrace. |
![]() |
|
| Steve K | Oct 24 2015, 11:55 AM Post #92 |
|
Once and future cynic
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
But here's the problem: If you or I or any potential juror sees those documents there is every danger of a miscarriage of justice being demonstrable and the guilty getting off. With false cases like Tom Watson's 'Jane' there is every chance of it being brought up to bring doubt in the minds of jurors in otherwise provable cases And then you have the harm done to people brain washed into thinking they were abused where no abuse occurred. That Unstructured Therapeutic Disclosure and the Lantern project are serious evils. |
![]() |
|
| Affa | Oct 24 2015, 12:19 PM Post #93 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
You are concerned about "miscarriage of justice" but appear critical of those seeking justice ...... is there a word for that contradiction? |
![]() |
|
| skwirked | Oct 24 2015, 02:44 PM Post #94 |
|
On Enforced Vacation
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Well Steve has a bit of a point, but attacking us isnt the answer. Best spend energy finding out the real culprits. I ask Steve does he believe any of the paedo ring stories and if so please share the evidence he's using. |
![]() |
|
| Affa | Oct 24 2015, 03:48 PM Post #95 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I can't agree! Steve's POINT has been that Tom Watson is a self serving "manipulative uncaring little shit". Mine is that he (Tom) is a brave servant of the public trying to bring justice where the authorities have demonstrably failed (the public) in their duty to do so. We are Poles apart! |
![]() |
|
| skwirked | Oct 24 2015, 03:59 PM Post #96 |
|
On Enforced Vacation
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Steve has a strong way of expressing his opinion, what can you say. I do too on occasion. |
![]() |
|
| Tigger | Oct 24 2015, 09:33 PM Post #97 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I would not bother yourself over juries or even prosecutions, there will be no trials and no full disclosure given the pathetic and predictable attempts to hit this one into the very long grass. As I keep pointing out some MP's such a Cyril Smith and Rhodes Boyson can be safely named but the still living ones as Tim Fortescue commented will be helped and protected, "we have them and can rely on favours" or "Brownie points". Not a lot different to the Mafia in some ways. The best we can hope for is a not too friendly country getting hold of an unredacted copy of that 80's report and broadcasting it, the mere fact they called Watson to answer before a select committee indicates to me they feel they have all bases covered, but then again you never know with these sort of things......... |
![]() |
|
| Affa | Oct 24 2015, 09:53 PM Post #98 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I don't disagree that SteveK does have a lot of determination to get over his personal opinion, ........ in a way that is over reliant on both 'procedure', and an exactitude that relies very heavily on the established protocols ...... neither of which I give a damn for! These are the method(s) that charlatans use every day (I'm not calling SK a charlatan, but those he takes his lead from). The press do it, are part of that 'procedure', which relies on having us all 'on board' with the Establishment ethos. Again; i'm not at all convinced by it. It tells us "there is no other way", when there are countless other ways. These revelations we are told have the potential to bring down the system. And of course the system acts to save itself! They try to convince us that a collapse would result in anarchy - We have anarchy now : noun general lawlessness and disorder, esp when thought to result from an absence or failure of government the absence or lack of government the absence of any guiding or uniting principle; disorder; chaos Where has there been any responsible government to bring this child abuse to an end and those involved to justice? No moral guidance, no protection, and no order. = anarchy Edited by Affa, Oct 24 2015, 09:55 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| skwirked | Oct 24 2015, 10:20 PM Post #99 |
|
On Enforced Vacation
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
"Where has there been any responsible government to bring this child abuse to an end and those involved to justice? No moral guidance, no protection, and no order. = anarchy" Well you asked me if I believe in any conspiracy theories and this is one of them. Steve is right that without evidence we are limited in our options - and I agree with you, T and Malum that it'll get covered up and swept aside... As I said, beware of the rise of vigilianteism..just google cases in the UK. I cant go into too much detail but a local man, a 1970s pedo teacher nearly got castrated by a baying mob....people dont forgive or forget very easily with regards to things far less serious than paedophilia; I should know I've managed to deeply p155 off some very, very nasty little c's just by trolling in jest, they now wish me great harm. Everything thats going on in govt is too much, you can fool some of the people some of the time but you cant fool all of the people all of the time. Steve said, the way things are going there might just be a bloody uprising; this issue will be another keg of gunpowder on the fire... Edited by skwirked, Oct 24 2015, 10:23 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Steve K | Oct 24 2015, 10:30 PM Post #100 |
|
Once and future cynic
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Yes we are poles apart He hasn't apologised. He's used the word 'sorry' in a fairly insincere way with no hint of trying to rectify harm done or that he wouldn't repeat his self serving behaviour if the opportunity reoccurred to make himself look like some kind of hero. I do not believe he would have got out of bed to make those (what turned out to be false) accusations about Brittan and Settle if it had been a Labour Home Secretary he was accusing or that he would have got no benefit from it |
![]() |
|
| Affa | Oct 24 2015, 10:41 PM Post #101 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Why would there be an uprising if government is seen (deemed) to have done its job. The failings are ALL previous governments, and it does look as if we can add this one to that list - the real danger of anger taking the shape revolt is because of the part played by the MET in this. Whitehall, as ever, likely escapes being held to account. On a trip to London with my son-in-law (his first visit) we had walked down Whitehall and approached Westminster when he said "this is what I wanted to see". I told him he'd just walked past the real place where the seats of power are. |
![]() |
|
| Rich | Oct 24 2015, 10:48 PM Post #102 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I would like to know just how many other "victims" there are in the wings besides the one who admitted he may have been mistaken in naming Btittan as his abuser after the damage had already been done and what is more if the names of the accused are "leaked" I would like to see the names of the accuser/s also leaked so that it is a level playing field, I know that two or more wrongs do not make a right but the threat of being named might make some think twice about their "memories" |
![]() |
|
| Affa | Oct 24 2015, 10:55 PM Post #103 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Believe it! He was active in government in pursuing known paedophiles, including Gary Glitter, and campaigned and won posthumous pardons for hundreds of WWI soldiers executed (PTSD), and called for Blair to resign in a signed letter in 2006. It is because of his campaigning that he was approached by those making these allegations - they sought him out, not he them! By now you should be revising your opinion, but I somehow doubt you will. Edited by Affa, Oct 24 2015, 10:57 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Affa | Oct 24 2015, 10:59 PM Post #104 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Why? |
![]() |
|
| skwirked | Oct 24 2015, 11:00 PM Post #105 |
|
On Enforced Vacation
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
First line - what if they aren't deemed to be doing their job? It doesn't take many people to start a bloody, reactionary uprising, yes that's still a long way off if it ever were to happen and I sincerely hope it never does - likelihood as others have pointed out is that we'd get nasty Fascist right wingers calling the shots. But I do agree that immigration is a big issue IN people's minds (I am anti-xenophobic)..that + this + the likely crash really, genuinely could be enough. Edited by skwirked, Oct 24 2015, 11:01 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Tigger | Oct 24 2015, 11:00 PM Post #106 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
It's almost as if you'd never watched an edition of Top of the Pops in the 70's or 80's Rich.
|
![]() |
|
| Rich | Oct 24 2015, 11:02 PM Post #107 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Late 50's early 60's is my era. |
![]() |
|
| Tigger | Oct 24 2015, 11:12 PM Post #108 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
1850-60's? And returning to the your dozy point on reporting sex crimes, are you aware of the problems the victims of Jimmy Saville faced when trying to report him to the police? Thinking hat not on presumably? |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Oct 24 2015, 11:16 PM Post #109 |
|
Deleted User
|
Because he cannot comprehend that guttersnipes can be the victims of such fine upstanding chaps. |
|
|
| Rich | Oct 24 2015, 11:37 PM Post #110 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I doubt if you could get one to fit your head. |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Oct 24 2015, 11:47 PM Post #111 |
|
Deleted User
|
Maybe you should consider his point. There were many victims who were ignored or worse because of mindsets like yours. |
|
|
| Affa | Oct 24 2015, 11:55 PM Post #112 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
It seems every Tory supporter on here considers these revelations as being more mischief than as a serious attempt to bring evil men to justice. This is a not 'Party' issue, so why? And the only answer possible is because their leader rejects the man leading it. edit ...... oh; another possible reason could be 'censored' Edited by Affa, Oct 24 2015, 11:59 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| skwirked | Oct 24 2015, 11:56 PM Post #113 |
|
On Enforced Vacation
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
His knee-pads must be worn out by now, good manners demand a working-class gent doff his cap to his Betters, KFCs or not. One must say, your manners are quite frightful dear boy. |
![]() |
|
| Tigger | Oct 28 2015, 10:18 PM Post #114 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Lets dig this one up and add some new information. Sourced from Private Eye, One of the members on the home affairs committee that grilled Tom Watson last week was Tory MP Tim Loughton, Loughton was another MP intent on getting to the bottom of the affair involving the so called Dicken Report, in fact he even threatened to use Parliamentary rules to name names and point fingers! He was as concerned as Watson at the fact the report had gone missing AND THE FACT THERE WERE ALLEGEDLY COMPROMISING PHOTOS'S IN THE REPORT, in fact in a piece in the Mail back in July 2014 he said he would name names. Now this Tory wanker appears to have lost his principles and has instead turned on someone who still has his former ideals. Cover up? No doubt in my mind......... |
![]() |
|
| Steve K | Oct 28 2015, 10:38 PM Post #115 |
|
Once and future cynic
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Well did Loughton publicly say Leon Brittan "was as close to evil as any human can get" ? Is it likely that Watson who very much did say such persuaded Loughton,Lucas, Hooey, Goldsmith, Munt and Hemming to sign that letter by making that and stronger allegations privately. Well yes it is so read the gang of seven's letter and it is nowhere near as as serious as that foul allegation Watson made |
![]() |
|
| Tigger | Oct 28 2015, 11:32 PM Post #116 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Well if Watson has managed to get a glimpse of this report and saw damning evidence, and it is highly likely given what has trickled out and the numerous evasions the establishment has concocted, then the fact Brittain sat on this, presumably to save the government of the day, then saying the close to evil thing is far milder than the description I'd have used for the deceased honourable member. And Tim Loughton is an abject moral failure and hypocritical turncoat in my opinion, there are few things as vile as molesting children but apparently party politics transcends that. Scum. I've a feeling we've not heard the last of this. |
![]() |
|
| RJD | Oct 29 2015, 07:00 AM Post #117 |
|
Prudence and Thrift
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
No. I say that Watson played very dirty politics and I doubt the man has one iota of sincerity in his veins. He is the evil face of Labour. |
![]() |
|
| Affa | Oct 29 2015, 10:16 AM Post #118 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I'd say that decrying watson for repeating the description given of Brittan by a victim of this abuse is edging close to evil! The motivation's for doing so are vile! |
![]() |
|
| Rich | Oct 29 2015, 11:55 AM Post #119 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I do recall Gordon (when he was mistaken that he was a Prime minister) saying no more boom and bust and British jobs for British workers, did you take his word as well? not that it matters much, I just like to see fair play where criticism is concerned. |
![]() |
|
| RJD | Oct 29 2015, 12:03 PM Post #120 |
|
Prudence and Thrift
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Really. Then you too should be excused Jury service as your standards of proof are flaky to say the least. Your colleague, here yesterday, implied that as innocence was not proven then the question of guilt remains. Such a way of thinking is positively medieval and reminds me of the days when we stretched individuals on the rack until they either died or admitted guilt of that claimed against them. In the UK we have long accepted that individuals are innocent until proved otherwise, but I know that doers not suit the Usuals who for them "ends justify means". These are the sort of political riff raff this country could do without. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
|
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Politics · Next Topic » |




![]](http://z5.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)




8:29 AM Jul 11