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| French Muslims Speak Out; #NousSommesUnis | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 23 2015, 05:30 AM (784 Views) | |
| skwirked | Nov 23 2015, 05:30 AM Post #1 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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http://m.france24.com/en/20151121-french-muslims-plead-do-not-remain-deaf-dumb-blind-terrorism
Good. Now will the Intransigents applaud this or rant on about all Muslims being terrorists or condoners of such? Edited by skwirked, Nov 23 2015, 05:32 AM.
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| Affa | Nov 24 2015, 11:03 PM Post #81 |
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If I'm wrong, correct me. The burka ...... veil, and all the other clothing to hide the female form, is worn to prevent males becoming aroused, sexually aware? It presumes that men cannot be held responsible for their actions when so aroused. I find this presumption offensive! I also consider against human nature, the instincts that have been with us since before religion. |
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| Tytoalba | Nov 25 2015, 10:51 AM Post #82 |
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When the mini skirt was fashionable and commonly worn by the young women, to the delight of all men, young and old alike, there was no surge in indecent assaults or allegations of rape . Go to any beech or swimming pool around the world and you will see much female flesh on display without any problems being created. |
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| Happy Hornet | Nov 25 2015, 11:19 AM Post #83 |
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Ty, the people making the threats are the likes of ISIS. British Muslims are as vulnerable to terrorist attacks as anyone else, the first victim of the 7/7 bombings to be buried was a young Muslim woman IIRC. Yet they also live with the threat of "revenge" and vigilante attacks as well, so they are in fact under greater threat than you are, so excuse me if I dont break down in tears at how tough you've got it. Might I also remind you, that one of ISIS' main objectives is to drive a wedge between the Muslim and non-Muslim communities here in the west. Attitudes like yours can only help them in achieving this aim. Do you really want to help ISIS? |
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| skwirked | Nov 25 2015, 11:27 AM Post #84 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Aside from these brainwashed whinging tt's, we have to accept that there is a big problem with Muslim ghettos in our country and Lab et al DID ghettoize Muslims. I do hope you agree with me. And yes there is radicalism, there are madrassas, there are people recruiting. 700 Brit Muz have gone to fight for IS and even more from mainland Europe. It is a problem but these silly people don't realise that alienating Muslims will just make it worse. And yes Muslims should be free to totally insult, criticise etc Western policy. That DOES not make them extremists. But right-wing orthodoxy ie PC tor right mingers insists that they shouldn't do that. You are building up resentment. |
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| Happy Hornet | Nov 25 2015, 11:35 AM Post #85 |
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Skwirked, I agree, of course there are problems with radicalised muslims and a lack of integration, but as you say, generalised attacks on the Muslim community as a whole can only make the problem worse. Whats needed is more cooperation in the fight against our common enemies. |
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| Affa | Nov 25 2015, 11:48 AM Post #86 |
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The conclusion is sound! Who better to root out the radicalising aspects, the grooming and recruitment of the young, than the Muslim community itself. |
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| Pro Veritas | Nov 25 2015, 01:10 PM Post #87 |
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I disagree. NuLab didn't "ghettoise" Muslims. Muslims did - they chose not to integrate. And as long as they keep on choosing not to integrate nothing much will change. All The Best |
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| skwirked | Nov 25 2015, 01:19 PM Post #88 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Some truth in that, but Lab encouraged a quite racist sort of seperationism of cultures and did not dissuade the Muslims from exclusively grouping together. Yes they pandered to stupid backwards customs and that was a big mistake (and the Tories really are no better). I still reject being lumped in with people like C2 with their clear agenda against Muslims. |
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| Happy Hornet | Nov 25 2015, 01:27 PM Post #89 |
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Well to be fair, you can only integrate if the host culture allows you too. When members of the host community, daub racist graffiti on your house, spit at you and attack your children, all of which actually happened to my in-laws, its understandable if some are reluctant to mingle. Wrong and narrow minded but understandable. This is not to excuse Muslims who don't integrate, plenty have done so seamlessly proving that it can and has been done, but to point out once again that this is a two way street. Growing up in the 80s as a kid of Irish Catholic extraction with several black and Asian friends I'm well aware of how hostile and impervious to reason certain elements of the indigenous population can be and I've noticed recently a rather disturbing trend where people seem to be attempting to airbrush this out of history. |
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| C-too | Nov 25 2015, 01:28 PM Post #90 |
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Prove my "clear agenda against Muslims" or accept that you are nothing more than an immature would be WUM. |
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| skwirked | Nov 25 2015, 01:35 PM Post #91 |
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True. I am sure gangs of Muslims must have formed in retaliation to gangs of white kids being violent. I noticed this in Tottenham when I used to live in London. It was prime territory for the NF in days long gone, now it has big problems with violent gangs of black kids, south asians etc. So a good point and something I have noticed too. I believe more recent migrants are sucked into the already rstablished culture of mistrust and violence etc. |
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| C-too | Nov 25 2015, 01:37 PM Post #92 |
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Nope, just pointing out that you are a master at side-tracking. |
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| Pro Veritas | Nov 25 2015, 01:39 PM Post #93 |
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You have no idea how much I hate defending NuLab. But NuLab didn't "encourage" a quite racist sort or separationism; they just did nothing to dissuade people from doing it. They chose not to dissuade minority cultures from being separationist because they feared being called racist if they abandoned the broken ideology of PC "cultural relativism". Please, I beg you, don't force me to defend NuLab any further. All The Best |
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| Happy Hornet | Nov 25 2015, 01:51 PM Post #94 |
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Skwirked, thats true, whilst things have improved a great deal, a lot of youngsters today will have grown up watching their parents clean the graffiti off their houses or the broken glass outside their businesses etc. My in-laws always went to great lengths to explain to their kids that you can't judge all white British people by the example of the racist thugs that blighted their lives as to do so would make you no better than them. Not all parents are like them though, so the kids grow up distrustful and resentful to the indigenous population which in turn provokes retaliation and the cycle continues. |
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| skwirked | Nov 25 2015, 01:56 PM Post #95 |
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Have you ever lived in London? The govt actively got involved in places like tower hamlets and made all kinds of special adjustments to suit Muslims; including conservative cultural (ab)norms. I thought this was widely known? If that's not actively encouraging people to stick to their own culture, in one place, with one way of seeing things then idk what is? Roads were renamed, places forbade entering without taking your shoes off and leaving them in front of the door, some places actually refused entry to Jewish customers and were allowed to get away with it (not many). I can personally attest to these facts having lived in London. It's not daily mail propaganda. I do not accept that it's purely Muslims' faults that they have been unable to integrate, see my post re violence etc to HH. The picture is more complex than that. |
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| Happy Hornet | Nov 25 2015, 01:59 PM Post #96 |
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Skwirked, the PC brigade will not hear a word said against Muslims and the PC gone mad brigade will not hear a word said against indigenous Brits, they will not debate but just seek to shout you down and call you names. Hence why progress on this issue has been so slow. |
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| skwirked | Nov 25 2015, 02:08 PM Post #97 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Sad but true and as you said 'the cycle continues'. I still fully support Muslims' rights to free speech though. The right for them to criticise the West re its extreme foreign policies is entirely justifiable. |
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| Happy Hornet | Nov 25 2015, 02:19 PM Post #98 |
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Skwirked, indeed, the older I get the more I have come to believe that most if not all of the world's problems are down to intransigence. People often think that refusal to ever compromise or accept fault is a sign of strength. To me it simply makes a person look childish and insecure. |
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| Pro Veritas | Nov 25 2015, 02:19 PM Post #99 |
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No, thank the Gods, I have never had to endure living in London. And NuLab made those "adjustments" just for the fun of it? Or were they asked, by Muslims, to make those adjustments? Because if they were asked then yes, it is Muslims fault, they haven't integrated. Furthermore, if Muslims actually wanted to integrate they would refuse those adjustments if they were offered without br asked for. For the record I hold the same to be true of Jewish, Sikh etc groups who ask for "adjustments"; simply asking for them proves there is no desire to integrate. All The Best |
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| Happy Hornet | Nov 25 2015, 02:24 PM Post #100 |
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PV, when skinhead thugs were chasing my wife and her sister home from the park when they were kids for having the temerity to play in the park whilst being Asian, was this proof of the indigenous population bending over backwards to help Sikhs to integrate? |
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| skwirked | Nov 25 2015, 02:26 PM Post #101 |
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It looked like a bit of both to me to be honest. Of course Muslims did ask for certain things, but there were plenty of overly do-gooding patrons busying themselves going out of their way to not offend, and adjusting policy to suit. Definitely the case in Hackney, some of Abbott's policies were amusingly rejected by Muslims as being extremely stupid, in meetings. As usual politicians think they know what's best when really it's just bluster. |
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| marybrown | Nov 25 2015, 02:28 PM Post #102 |
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Yes..do you?.. |
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| marybrown | Nov 25 2015, 02:30 PM Post #103 |
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They could have been chased out the park..because they had ginger hair..wore glasses..or were fat.. Happens to white people too.. |
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| Happy Hornet | Nov 25 2015, 02:30 PM Post #104 |
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Precisely Skwirked, we don't judge the indigenous by the worst examples so we shouldn't do the same with anyone else. My brother-in-law is a Muslim and has always said that Muslims who want special treatment should "p1ss off and live in a Muslim county". His words. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 25 2015, 02:35 PM Post #105 |
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This reminds me of one of my old workmates who lived in North London in the 60s. He said that he and his mates used to bash up blacks now and then just for sport...unfortunately they started to stick up for each other. He spoke about the time he and his mates were giving a black man a good hiding and other black men stated to appear and gave them a kicking in return. They lost their fear . I suppose thats one way of integrating into society. |
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| marybrown | Nov 25 2015, 02:36 PM Post #106 |
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So your wife's family are Sikh..and your brother-in -law is a Muslim???..
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| Happy Hornet | Nov 25 2015, 02:37 PM Post #107 |
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Yes Mary, some kids do get bullied for being fat, this often causes them to retreat into themselves, eat more for comfort and soacilise less, essentially cutting themselves off from mainstream society. Which is a similar process a lot of muslims and other minorities follow as a result of being picked on because of what they are. |
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| skwirked | Nov 25 2015, 02:37 PM Post #108 |
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Never seen Sikhs get special treatment but seen a fair deal of resentment against them from several quarters. A lot of south asians consider them as rich bustards who own everything. And then they get racist abuse as 'ragheads'. Truth is, in London I saw loads of special treatment purely for Jews, Muslims religion-wise. The Jewish stuff was pretty unpleasant you know in the hasidic community. Don't talk to non jews, go to all jew schools, never talk to muslims. I was told this was the 'policy' by an orthodox jewish girl from stamford hill. |
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| skwirked | Nov 25 2015, 02:39 PM Post #109 |
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Exactly. It is a fucking disgrace, a true indictment of our society.. |
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| Happy Hornet | Nov 25 2015, 02:39 PM Post #110 |
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Yes Mary, my wife's sister is a Sikh married to a Muslim. He married outside his faith, didn't force her to convert and doesn't have explosives in his shoes, who'd have thunk it! |
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| skwirked | Nov 25 2015, 02:43 PM Post #111 |
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Yeah Muslims never break any conventions. I must be a liar if I state that ny ex-Sudanese flatmate ate pork and smoked 'hookah' and had no qualms about having a relationship with non muz women, he was also anti-misogynistic and very learned. But him being an evil non white refugee, I must be lying.
Edited by skwirked, Nov 25 2015, 02:43 PM.
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| Pro Veritas | Nov 25 2015, 02:46 PM Post #112 |
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Did I say, or even suggest that? No, I did not. I clearly stated that "asking for adjustments" was in my opinion evidence of no desire to integrate; and by adjustments I was referring to the type if things skwirked had mentioned a few posts earlier. All The Best |
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| marybrown | Nov 25 2015, 02:47 PM Post #113 |
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I know a lot of Sikhs..and understand their outlook on life..I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when she took him home... BTW.. Thunk is not a word.. It's thought... ''A thunk is a subroutine that is created, often automatically, to assist a call to another subroutine. Thunks are primarily used to represent an additional calculation that a subroutine needs to execute, or to call a routine that does not support the usual calling mechanism.'' Hope this helps.. |
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| Happy Hornet | Nov 25 2015, 02:53 PM Post #114 |
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Yes PV, but you seem determined to avoid acknowledging the other side of this argument, that the indigenous population have also thrown up barriers to integration. Also people asking for concession is evidence of a lack of desire of that one individual or individuals to integrate, not proof of an overall reluctance to integrate by the entire community. |
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| marybrown | Nov 25 2015, 02:58 PM Post #115 |
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HH..it is the immigrants who will not integrate..who live in their ghetto's.. I think we have held our hands out time and time again..only to be abused.. Refugees take housing whilst Brits are living in hostels with children.. And it is all down to the PC brigade.. They don't want to integrate with us.. They want our benefits..housing..schooling and healthcare..but still carry on as if they live in Afghanistan..women covered up..Not many of them have a job..apart from taxi driving and working in takeaways.. They are taking the piss.. Edited by marybrown, Nov 25 2015, 03:02 PM.
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| Pro Veritas | Nov 25 2015, 03:13 PM Post #116 |
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Really? Where have I even suggested I don't want to acknowledge that? Is this the same "well you haven't decried it so you must support it" line of thinking that has racist bigots thinking all Muslims must publicly announce their opposition to Islamic Terrorism? Let's not even get in to the "an individual does not represent a community" line of thinking, because in many cases the "individuals" asking for these concessions were the very same individuals that had been chosen by the community to represent the community so it is, in my opinion, deeply disingenuous of you to try and paint an alternative picture. All The Best |
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| Happy Hornet | Nov 25 2015, 03:26 PM Post #117 |
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PV, the fact that I and several others raised the point in response to your posts made it seem, SEEM that way to me. If I'm wrong them I apologise, but I have still to hear you say that you consider the actions of some indigenous Brits have contributed to the problem or condemn this. Could you please clarify your position an this matter? My wife is Sikh and has never not once elected anyone to represent her as a spokesperson for the Sikh community nor has anyone ever asked her too. The same goes for my muslim brother in law. Many of these community representatives are self appointed and many of the people who ask for these concessions arent even from the community in question but are do gooders presuming to speak on behalf of others. In fact, can you name me one person who has been elected, in a nationwide election, to represent the whole UK Sikh community, the Muslim community, jewish community etc? Edited by Happy Hornet, Nov 25 2015, 03:32 PM.
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| marybrown | Nov 25 2015, 03:50 PM Post #118 |
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The Sikhs came here in peace..they didn't want to confront anyone..cut their heads off..or force people to adopt their religion.. I enjoyed them..I went to the Guru Nanak temple in Smethwick to attend a marriage.. |
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| skwirked | Nov 25 2015, 03:57 PM Post #119 |
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lol The Sikhs got attacked by fucktard racists rather a lot in the old days. I bet you got on really well with them mary ...in other news pigs can fly. |
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| Pro Veritas | Nov 25 2015, 04:03 PM Post #120 |
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Do you think all Muslims must publicly condemn the actions of ISIS? I don't. So why should I explicitly condemn an action that 99% of people would instinctively condemn anyway? Are you saying all White Brits are racist unless they overtly condemn racism? Because that is exactly what it looks like to me. All The Best |
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