Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Uk Debate Mk 2, the UK's liveliest political and social debate site.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Wealth Creators?; Hmm.
Topic Started: Nov 26 2015, 05:18 AM (157 Views)
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
[ *  *  *  * ]
Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

So that's OK then is it?

What a joke .. work like the Chinese...
Edited by skwirked, Nov 26 2015, 08:01 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Opinionater
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Don't see any major issues with the productivity wages graph, maybe I am missing something, please expand your concern.

Re the wages v profits, ok I see the gap widening and understand your concerns there but if profits are good does this not drive reinvestment and growth. I accept this should not continue indefinitely but in the short term it should stimulate growth and create jobs. Is that not a reasonable price to pay, in the short term?

Re NMW not sure that is a useful comparison, I think the NMW has to be set based on ability to pay, impact on employment and levels of benefits.
Edited by Opinionater, Nov 26 2015, 08:11 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
[ *  *  *  * ]
I see a problem with the productivity graph. The gap is widening overall.

And no there's no sign of wages catching up to profits...on either count. I reject trickle down economics the ideology has been discredited.

Also: the NMW is important, it should be rising much more quickly if you look at 2014, surpluses were back at 7%.
Edited by skwirked, Nov 26 2015, 08:25 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
Opinionater
Nov 26 2015, 08:03 AM
Don't see any major issues with the productivity wages graph, maybe I am missing something, please expand your concern.

Re the wages v profits, ok I see the gap widening and understand your concerns there but if profits are good does this not drive reinvestment and growth. I accept this should not continue indefinitely but in the short term it should stimulate growth and create jobs. Is that not a reasonable price to pay, in the short term?

Re NMW not sure that is a useful comparison, I think the NMW has to be set based on ability to pay, impact on employment and levels of benefits.
Wages are set not according to levels of profitability, but market rates. For those with educations and skills these have increased ahead of inflation and industry/commerce fail to satisfy demand for such people. Wage rates with those without much in the way of skills to offer, of which there is a surplus and based on incoming numbers of economic migrants will remain so, is determined by the "Going Rate" which is the NMW or NLW. There is no obligation on anyone to fix wage rates according to profitability, this is understandable as most workers, unlike investors in the enterprise, do not wish to risk their earning. However if Unions offer to do such I am sure Managers will listen to such proposals as long as they are not just one-sided.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
AndyK
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
skwirked
Nov 26 2015, 08:24 AM
I see a problem with the productivity graph. The gap is widening overall.

And no there's no sign of wages catching up to profits...on either count. I reject trickle down economics the ideology has been discredited.

Also: the NMW is important, it should be rising much more quickly if you look at 2014, surpluses were back at 7%.
If you want to compete with the Chinese, you have to accept their terms and conditions.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
AndyK
Nov 26 2015, 09:23 AM
skwirked
Nov 26 2015, 08:24 AM
I see a problem with the productivity graph. The gap is widening overall.

And no there's no sign of wages catching up to profits...on either count. I reject trickle down economics the ideology has been discredited.

Also: the NMW is important, it should be rising much more quickly if you look at 2014, surpluses were back at 7%.
If you want to compete with the Chinese, you have to accept their terms and conditions.
If the "trickle down" effects, such as they are, are not acceptable then what is the alternative? Maybe a system tried by the likes of the USSR and the Ost Bloc where wages are set by Politicians and so is the variety of goods and their prices. Tried all that and made millions of people very miserable. There is no evidence anywhere where State controls bring long term benefits to Joe Public. If there were then the likes of Corbyn would be highlighting such each and every day. Truth is that the vast weight of evidence is to the exact opposite. It's a tough old World and there is no God given right for an easy ride. We have all signed up to globalised capitalism, which through trade is supposed to bind us all closer together, so best get on with making the best of it. The only tool this Gov. has is to push up the NLW and reduce taxation and it is attempting to improve the lot of the poorest paid without making too many have to change jobs. Want better net disposable income then generate a net surplus and then expect a trickle down effect. But there is no barriers set up to stop individuals investing time and money into improving their own skill sets, the State cannot suddenly implant such.


Osborne has positioned himself and his Party on the side of what they call "the Strivers", the implication of this is that the Opposition, such as it is, is on the side of "the Shirkers". The latter being those who do not pull their weight, will not invest in their own self improvement and expect the State hand outs. Me thinks that Osborne has Corbyn well button holed and he will not easily shed that planted image.

"George the builder" you have to smile.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Steve K
Member Avatar
Once and future cynic
[ *  *  *  * ]
AndyK
Nov 26 2015, 09:23 AM
skwirked
Nov 26 2015, 08:24 AM
I see a problem with the productivity graph. The gap is widening overall.

And no there's no sign of wages catching up to profits...on either count. I reject trickle down economics the ideology has been discredited.

Also: the NMW is important, it should be rising much more quickly if you look at 2014, surpluses were back at 7%.
If you want to compete with the Chinese, you have to accept their terms and conditions.
And if the electorate want to buy goods from the Chinese you have to compete with the Chinese in the world market
Edited by Steve K, Nov 26 2015, 10:55 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ACH1967
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
RJD: Osborne has positioned himself and his Party on the side of what they call "the Strivers", the implication of this is that the Opposition, such as it is, is on the side of "the Shirkers".

This is not an implication it is an interpretation and a questionable one at that.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
ACH1967
Nov 26 2015, 10:48 AM
RJD: Osborne has positioned himself and his Party on the side of what they call "the Strivers", the implication of this is that the Opposition, such as it is, is on the side of "the Shirkers".

This is not an implication it is an interpretation and a questionable one at that.
I am OK with "interpretation", but you know exactly what Joe Public will think when they hear the same sound bites day in and day out. Osborne is out to hang a big sign around the necks of Labour which says ""Shirker's Party". Labour already look flakey of defence are not trusted with the economy and have no known industrial strategies. They are already perceived to be the Party for Public Sector Unions and Welfare beneficiaries, so it will not take much to stick that sign up. "George the Builder" know exactly what he is about and that is winning the next GE for himself. Crude political positioning and he has Corbyn exactly where he wants him.



Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
[ *  *  *  * ]
It's been proven that embracing trade unions works wonders.

In Europe the works councils model is a huge success. Yes pay should be linked to productivity, profit and really profit-sharing/cooperative businesses (at least part coop) should be fully encouraged. In the UK we seem to be scared of change, in the continent many countries embrace it, which is why they have better provisions for their cotizens, healthier more balanced economies and less apathy and discontent.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lewis
Member Avatar
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
ACH1967
Nov 26 2015, 10:48 AM
RJD: Osborne has positioned himself and his Party on the side of what they call "the Strivers", the implication of this is that the Opposition, such as it is, is on the side of "the Shirkers".

This is not an implication it is an interpretation and a questionable one at that.
No the opposite is true for Giddie, keeps on kicking the strivers in the proverbials or the pocket as the last budget statement is testimony.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · Politics · Next Topic »
Add Reply