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Jeremy Corbyn 'Systematically' Attacked By British Press The Moment He Became Leader, Research Claim
Topic Started: Nov 26 2015, 09:41 PM (1,562 Views)
Cymru
Alt-Right
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http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/26/jeremy-corbyn-media-coverage_n_8653886.html

We do not have a free press, we have a press where one is free to say what one wishes within the limitations set by an establishment which on the one hand does not want to appear to be silencing all dissent because that would make their power obvious, but on the other hand will not allow popular upstarts like Corbyn to become a genuine threat to them.

This establishment prefers the manufactured opposition they act out their 'disagreements' with for the public's benefit.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Affa
Nov 30 2015, 12:51 PM
Rich
Nov 30 2015, 12:16 AM

If the Tories were the least worst option then what does that say about the rest?

Why do you say 'if' when you are already convinced?

imo the Conservatives are the very worst option on everything we require a government to do - and I do of course include the economy.

The difference between us, the way we reach these conclusions, is in what influences us and why.


I am of the exact opposite view and as far as I am able to see common sense is still the domain of the Conservatives. As someone once said, maybe Ian McCloed, I paraphrase, "the left can dream their idle dreams and wish the World to be otherwise, but for the rest of us their is work to be done". True for him then and in my view still true today. Did Mrs T not say that common sense was the preserve of Conservatism or something similar?



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ACH1967
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I am not sure why Steve K has such a downer on Corbyn.

I saw some of the Andrew Marr interview. He didn't come across that badly at all. I can see what annoyed Steve but |I'm starting to get the impression you just don't like him. i am hoping he evolves into something a bit more statesmen like. I suspect I will be left with wishful thinking but think we should give him a chance. Not too much of a chance though.

I think what he said about cutting of revenue and weapons sounds like a much better idea than bombing a city full of civilians.
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RJD
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ACH1967
Nov 30 2015, 01:05 PM
I am not sure why Steve K has such a downer on Corbyn.

I saw some of the Andrew Marr interview. He didn't come across that badly at all. I can see what annoyed Steve but |I'm starting to get the impression you just don't like him. i am hoping he evolves into something a bit more statesmen like. I suspect I will be left with wishful thinking but think we should give him a chance. Not too much of a chance though.

I think what he said about cutting of revenue and weapons sounds like a much better idea than bombing a city full of civilians.
A bit late for someone of his advanced years to develop such character traits. The man is no leader of men and that is plainly obvious.
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ACH1967
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RJD
Nov 30 2015, 01:10 PM
ACH1967
Nov 30 2015, 01:05 PM
I am not sure why Steve K has such a downer on Corbyn.

I saw some of the Andrew Marr interview. He didn't come across that badly at all. I can see what annoyed Steve but |I'm starting to get the impression you just don't like him. i am hoping he evolves into something a bit more statesmen like. I suspect I will be left with wishful thinking but think we should give him a chance. Not too much of a chance though.

I think what he said about cutting of revenue and weapons sounds like a much better idea than bombing a city full of civilians.
A bit late for someone of his advanced years to develop such character traits. The man is no leader of men and that is plainly obvious.
I fear you may be right. The left has no one of any stature. I don't think the right has much but then with such weak opposition they hardly need any
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Affa
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Steve K
Nov 30 2015, 12:56 PM
Tigger
Nov 29 2015, 10:22 PM
AndyK
Nov 29 2015, 10:04 PM
Corbyn is not something different though.

Corbyn is 1970's Labour.

Really?

I've mentioned this a few times on here, usually to stony silence, but nonetheless it is entirely factual.

There is barely a single policy Corbyn is proposing that would give the leader of Europe's most successful economy a sleepless night. . . .
probably just one but you have to admit it's a biggy, so effin big words fail me

Corbyn's plan is to fund unprecedented levels of social expenditure by printing money over and over again in increasing amounts. Your average German would die of shame if it was suggested there.
^IYO

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RJD
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ACH1967
Nov 30 2015, 01:15 PM
RJD
Nov 30 2015, 01:10 PM
ACH1967
Nov 30 2015, 01:05 PM
I am not sure why Steve K has such a downer on Corbyn.

I saw some of the Andrew Marr interview. He didn't come across that badly at all. I can see what annoyed Steve but |I'm starting to get the impression you just don't like him. i am hoping he evolves into something a bit more statesmen like. I suspect I will be left with wishful thinking but think we should give him a chance. Not too much of a chance though.

I think what he said about cutting of revenue and weapons sounds like a much better idea than bombing a city full of civilians.
A bit late for someone of his advanced years to develop such character traits. The man is no leader of men and that is plainly obvious.
I fear you may be right. The left has no one of any stature. I don't think the right has much but then with such weak opposition they hardly need any
The two posh boys appear to be to have the wisdom of Solomon in comparison to Corby and his acolytes.
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AndyK
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ACH1967
Nov 30 2015, 01:05 PM
I am not sure why Steve K has such a downer on Corbyn.

I saw some of the Andrew Marr interview. He didn't come across that badly at all. I can see what annoyed Steve but |I'm starting to get the impression you just don't like him. i am hoping he evolves into something a bit more statesmen like. I suspect I will be left with wishful thinking but think we should give him a chance. Not too much of a chance though.

I think what he said about cutting of revenue and weapons sounds like a much better idea than bombing a city full of civilians.
I didn't see the interview, I understand he spoke a lot about what he wouldn't do, did he explain in detail what he would do?
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ACH1967
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AndyK
Nov 30 2015, 01:44 PM
ACH1967
Nov 30 2015, 01:05 PM
I am not sure why Steve K has such a downer on Corbyn.

I saw some of the Andrew Marr interview. He didn't come across that badly at all. I can see what annoyed Steve but |I'm starting to get the impression you just don't like him. i am hoping he evolves into something a bit more statesmen like. I suspect I will be left with wishful thinking but think we should give him a chance. Not too much of a chance though.

I think what he said about cutting of revenue and weapons sounds like a much better idea than bombing a city full of civilians.
I didn't see the interview, I understand he spoke a lot about what he wouldn't do, did he explain in detail what he would do?
the cutting off supply is the only bit i recall.
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papasmurf
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AndyK
Nov 30 2015, 01:44 PM
I didn't see the interview,
From 22 minutes in:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06rjpq3/the-andrew-marr-show-29112015
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Tytoalba
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Tigger
Nov 29 2015, 11:22 PM
Tytoalba
Nov 29 2015, 10:47 PM
Tigger
Nov 29 2015, 07:49 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Public opinion seems to be a lot further right than the current leadership of the Labour Party. Listening to his own party membership does not mean he is in tune with the majority of all the potential voters. Corbyn may well have the support of his signed up membership, but they seem as far to the left as he is , but he and his party HAS to appeal to the voters across the whole spectrum of society.
Of course he has to appeal to the wider electorate, and as we know from past experience it only takes a few choice eff ups to sway public opinion. It's clear to me much of the right wing media is terrified of Corbyn because he is not part of their narrow World, it's equally clear that any lie, underhand trick or scare story is run without a seconds thought. Some don't question any of this.

Three things that could well see the current government fall apart.

Economic problems after a Brexit + Tory civil war. (a given in my book)
An unpopular conflict that goes badly leading to national humiliation.
A Tory corruption scandal, again almost an inevitability.

Suddenly a leader offering hope to ordinary folks, as opposed to the nations vested interests, starts to look electable, and keep in mind that most had the Tories dead and buried prior to the crash, stranger things have happened. The Tories are not popular with the bulk of the electorate they were just considered the least worst option.
Who and what are the ordinary folk, and how do you define them? It was the ordinary folk that ignored Milliband and his brand of government and led to the Election of a conservative government.
Do you think that the " folk" of all strata's of society, of all level of wealth, ages and education have to be of the "working class" who I think you perceive as underdogs of society, and therefore committed labour party supporters and will vote for a left wing socialist agenda.
We are individuals, and as free individuals we will make free choices for ourselves and our families, have our own ambitions and our individual aspirations.
Do we really want a political party with its own political agenda dictating what we must do , who we must vote for, and how we must run our individual lives?
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ACH1967
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Tytoalba
Nov 30 2015, 02:32 PM
Tigger
Nov 29 2015, 11:22 PM
Tytoalba
Nov 29 2015, 10:47 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Of course he has to appeal to the wider electorate, and as we know from past experience it only takes a few choice eff ups to sway public opinion. It's clear to me much of the right wing media is terrified of Corbyn because he is not part of their narrow World, it's equally clear that any lie, underhand trick or scare story is run without a seconds thought. Some don't question any of this.

Three things that could well see the current government fall apart.

Economic problems after a Brexit + Tory civil war. (a given in my book)
An unpopular conflict that goes badly leading to national humiliation.
A Tory corruption scandal, again almost an inevitability.

Suddenly a leader offering hope to ordinary folks, as opposed to the nations vested interests, starts to look electable, and keep in mind that most had the Tories dead and buried prior to the crash, stranger things have happened. The Tories are not popular with the bulk of the electorate they were just considered the least worst option.
Who and what are the ordinary folk, and how do you define them? It was the ordinary folk that ignored Milliband and his brand of government and led to the Election of a conservative government.
Do you think that the " folk" of all strata's of society, of all level of wealth, ages and education have to be of the "working class" who I think you perceive as underdogs of society, and therefore committed labour party supporters and will vote for a left wing socialist agenda.
We are individuals, and as free individuals we will make free choices for ourselves and our families, have our own ambitions and our individual aspirations.
Do we really want a political party with its own political agenda dictating what we must do , who we must vote for, and how we must run our individual lives?
Yes and it is as individuals we are effectively divided and conquered. It was to stop this dividing and conquering that the Labour party was set up. It lost its way in it's enthusiasm to do good.
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C-too
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RJD
Nov 29 2015, 03:14 PM
C2: We probably have less social and industrial strife because;
a). Unlike Pre- 1979, We have not just come through 20 odd years with a failing economy with a gloomy outlook for the future, while countries like France and Germany were doing well.

Compounded by highly politicised trade union actions designed to frustrate Gov. and Employers. Guess whose reforms put paid to that nonesense.

b). Today people do understand that there was a financial meltdown and the economy does need to be sorted.

Yes they understand who exacerbated a very difficult situation and then went on to oppose each and every cut in public spending. They voted accordingly.

c). Also we have a very different industrial base to the period you refer to.

Tempus Fugit.

d). Fewer police and yet crime is supposed to be falling ? Maybe. True or not let's see the situation when the future real cuts in social support begin to bite.

Well thus far each and every forecast that the end was nigh have proved to be far off the mark.

e). A classless society ? Are you kidding me ? The bedroom tax, the cuts in working tax credits, the proposed cuts in child benefits and goodness knows what else is in the pipeline. Yet there is still talk by the chancellor of cuts in income tax and lifting death duties to begin at £1million, and again what other helping hand to the rich and better off does he have up his sleeve ?


Class is to do with the social group individuals believe represents them. Osborne calls all those that are employed as "The Striver Group". You are free to define your own groups as you will. But I believe the post war groupings now hardly exist, they broke down fully when the post war baby-boomers became the vast majority of managers of our industrial and commercial economy and that was decades ago. Me thinks C2 you still want to fight old battles, the ones that you saw lost on ancient turfs.

Like it or not the great division is now being fashioned in front of our eyes of on one side the "strivers" and the other the "skivers" and this is crudely said for obvious reasons. Labour lost it's working class tribalists and their votes are up for grabs with both UKIP and the Tories out for a good slice. The claim of the demise of Labour may be premature, but the coffin is in construction.
Thanks for the laugh, all you have shown is that your prejudice controls your logic. :)

PS, the next few years will lay the foundations for the next "broken society".

Edited by C-too, Nov 30 2015, 04:08 PM.
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marybrown
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ACH1967
Nov 30 2015, 03:16 PM
Tytoalba
Nov 30 2015, 02:32 PM
Tigger
Nov 29 2015, 11:22 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Who and what are the ordinary folk, and how do you define them? It was the ordinary folk that ignored Milliband and his brand of government and led to the Election of a conservative government.
Do you think that the " folk" of all strata's of society, of all level of wealth, ages and education have to be of the "working class" who I think you perceive as underdogs of society, and therefore committed labour party supporters and will vote for a left wing socialist agenda.
We are individuals, and as free individuals we will make free choices for ourselves and our families, have our own ambitions and our individual aspirations.
Do we really want a political party with its own political agenda dictating what we must do , who we must vote for, and how we must run our individual lives?
Yes and it is as individuals we are effectively divided and conquered. It was to stop this dividing and conquering that the Labour party was set up. It lost its way in it's enthusiasm to do good.
Jeremy Corbyn will never be a labour leader..for some reason he appears to have pushed the ''self destruct'' button..

Maybe he didn't want to take the job in the first place..and to take Dianne Abbot with him..who he has confessed to screwing?

He is useless..DA is a self serving racist

Everyone hates Abbot.

WTF?
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RJD
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C-too
Nov 30 2015, 03:54 PM
RJD
Nov 29 2015, 03:14 PM
C2: We probably have less social and industrial strife because;
a). Unlike Pre- 1979, We have not just come through 20 odd years with a failing economy with a gloomy outlook for the future, while countries like France and Germany were doing well.

Compounded by highly politicised trade union actions designed to frustrate Gov. and Employers. Guess whose reforms put paid to that nonesense.

b). Today people do understand that there was a financial meltdown and the economy does need to be sorted.

Yes they understand who exacerbated a very difficult situation and then went on to oppose each and every cut in public spending. They voted accordingly.

c). Also we have a very different industrial base to the period you refer to.

Tempus Fugit.

d). Fewer police and yet crime is supposed to be falling ? Maybe. True or not let's see the situation when the future real cuts in social support begin to bite.

Well thus far each and every forecast that the end was nigh have proved to be far off the mark.

e). A classless society ? Are you kidding me ? The bedroom tax, the cuts in working tax credits, the proposed cuts in child benefits and goodness knows what else is in the pipeline. Yet there is still talk by the chancellor of cuts in income tax and lifting death duties to begin at £1million, and again what other helping hand to the rich and better off does he have up his sleeve ?


Class is to do with the social group individuals believe represents them. Osborne calls all those that are employed as "The Striver Group". You are free to define your own groups as you will. But I believe the post war groupings now hardly exist, they broke down fully when the post war baby-boomers became the vast majority of managers of our industrial and commercial economy and that was decades ago. Me thinks C2 you still want to fight old battles, the ones that you saw lost on ancient turfs.

Like it or not the great division is now being fashioned in front of our eyes of on one side the "strivers" and the other the "skivers" and this is crudely said for obvious reasons. Labour lost it's working class tribalists and their votes are up for grabs with both UKIP and the Tories out for a good slice. The claim of the demise of Labour may be premature, but the coffin is in construction.
Thanks for the laugh, all you have shown is that your prejudice controls your logic. :)

PS, the next few years will lay the foundations for the next "broken society".

Feeds you dogma does it not with Labour always the great social architects and the Tories the great demolishers. You live in a fantasy World that you find even difficult to justify to yourself. Your stilted view of the carnage brought by 1960s and 70s Trade Unions belies reference to anyone's reality. They were a very destructive force whose main objective was political and they made no bones about it. They would be shocked by the way latter day apologised spin reality. Truth is that Labour and Trade Unions were culpable for the decline in UKs industrial capability and the rapid loss of our post war advantage and have been on the wrong side of every debate on strategy since 1945. I suspect you recognise the mayhem they wrought but do not have the mental strength to accept you and your ilk were wrong. Now we just have to watch you attempts to white-wash over the truth. I would laugh but there is nothing funny in your position, it is just sad.
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RJD
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marybrown
Nov 30 2015, 03:56 PM
ACH1967
Nov 30 2015, 03:16 PM
Tytoalba
Nov 30 2015, 02:32 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Yes and it is as individuals we are effectively divided and conquered. It was to stop this dividing and conquering that the Labour party was set up. It lost its way in it's enthusiasm to do good.
Jeremy Corbyn will never be a labour leader..for some reason he appears to have pushed the ''self destruct'' button..

Maybe he didn't want to take the job in the first place..and to take Dianne Abbot with him..who he has confessed to screwing?

He is useless..DA is a self serving racist

Everyone hates Abbot.

WTF?
Is screwing or "once screwed"? There is a difference.

Leader are not thrust upon us from the bowels of political parties, they are those that want to lead and aspire to be in control. Poor Jeremy has not shown in 30 odd years in politics that he wishes to take the lead on anything accept denigrating the UK and western capitalist democracies in general. As the saying goes "unfit to run a p155 up at a brewery".

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Affa
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RJD
Nov 30 2015, 04:32 PM
Feeds you dogma does it not with Labour always the great social architects and the Tories the great demolishers. You live in a fantasy World that you find even difficult to justify to yourself. Your stilted view of the carnage brought by 1960s and 70s Trade Unions belies reference to anyone's reality. They were a very destructive force whose main objective was political and they made no bones about it. They would be shocked by the way latter day apologised spin reality. Truth is that Labour and Trade Unions were culpable for the decline in UKs industrial capability and the rapid loss of our post war advantage and have been on the wrong side of every debate on strategy since 1945. I suspect you recognise the mayhem they wrought but do not have the mental strength to accept you and your ilk were wrong. Now we just have to watch you attempts to white-wash over the truth. I would laugh but there is nothing funny in your position, it is just sad.
Quote:
 
Common sense is the preserve of conservatism
.

Speaking of 'fantasy', of self delusion I draw attention to this hilarity (above).
At least you didn't lay claim to preserving integrity, and by the way, if good sense were common it could never be confined to the uncommon Conservative party!
The only recognizable truth in your main address is that the Trade Unions and the Labour party were culpable in the decline of the UK's industrial capability. But so were the Conservatives, only more so.

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Steve K
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AndyK
Nov 30 2015, 01:44 PM
ACH1967
Nov 30 2015, 01:05 PM
I am not sure why Steve K has such a downer on Corbyn.

I saw some of the Andrew Marr interview. He didn't come across that badly at all. I can see what annoyed Steve but |I'm starting to get the impression you just don't like him. i am hoping he evolves into something a bit more statesmen like. I suspect I will be left with wishful thinking but think we should give him a chance. Not too much of a chance though.

I think what he said about cutting of revenue and weapons sounds like a much better idea than bombing a city full of civilians.
I didn't see the interview, I understand he spoke a lot about what he wouldn't do, did he explain in detail what he would do?
I have been known to defend him as well

But he's no leader, he has a dishonest view on the economy, appoints inept cronies and has an irritating patronising tone

But as you missed the interview please read the full transcript and see if you can spot any leadership in there. I have heard said it was so unfair that the BBC would only interview him on a day with a 'Y' in it.
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Affa
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Steve K
Nov 30 2015, 07:33 PM

I have been known to defend him as well


So has David Cameron, and at times so has the right-wing press ..... none of which tells us that they have an unbiased conclusion on him or his policies.

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Steve K
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Well it's two hours since I posted up the Marr/Corbyn transcript and no one has yet spotted any JC leadership shown

I'm afraid UKD doesn't run to an electron microscope
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Tigger
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Steve K
Nov 30 2015, 09:36 PM
Well it's two hours since I posted up the Marr/Corbyn transcript and no one has yet spotted any JC leadership shown

I'm afraid UKD doesn't run to an electron microscope
Your idea of leadership might not be what other peoples is.

In my experience the non flashy, calm and thoughtful types make the best natural leaders, just acting the part does not count in my book, in fact look at the mess this phoney style of "leadership" has created!

Politics should be like banking, dull, competent and small c conservative, if I want entertainment I'll visit a theatre or er, post on here.
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skwirked
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lol

Just read Corbyn's first answer -faultless. A perfect summary.

No other way to say this: 'u iz chattin sh1t bruv'
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Tigger
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Did anyone watch the Chinese president on his visit over here?

Rather dull, expressionless and polite to order.

But by all accounts hugely competent and effective leader. The press in the UK turns politics into ghastly soap opera.
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Steve K
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Tigger
Nov 30 2015, 10:01 PM
Did anyone watch the Chinese president on his visit over here?

Rather dull, expressionless and polite to order.

But by all accounts hugely competent and effective leader. The press in the UK turns politics into ghastly soap opera.
Let's look then

Xi Jinping
 
As an ancient Chinese adage goes, “The greatest ideal is to create a world truly shared by all.” Peace, development, equity, justice, democracy and freedom are common values of all mankind and the lofty goals of the United Nations. Yet these goals are far from being achieved, and we must continue our endeavor to meet them. In today’s world, all countries are interdependent and share a common future. We Should renew our commitment to the purposes and principles of the UN Charter, build a new type of international relations featuring win-win cooperation, and create a community of shared future for mankind. To achieve this goal, we need to make the following efforts: . . .


http://qz.com/512886/read-the-full-text-of-xi-jinpings-first-un-address/

You could wait a month of Sundays and Corbyn will never match that.
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krugerman
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There in nothing unusual, odd or strange about the right wing media attacking the Labour Party, it is what the right wing press do, just as The Guardian or the Daily Mirror attacks the tory party, its just natural.

Be here's the big big difference ..........

We now find middle of the road news papers like The Independent openly criticising the direction of the Labour Party, and behold, even long standing and trusted columnists in The Guardian casting serious doubt on Labour's electoral prospects, and in my view, rightly so.

Blame anyone but yourself - that's the current situation in the Labour Party, and when the Oldham result comes in showing a much reduced majority in a safe Labour seat, this is not the fault of The Sun, Daily Mail or Express, it is entirely the fault of the Labour Party, get used to it because electoral disappointment is the new order of the day for Labour.
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Tigger
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Steve K
Nov 30 2015, 10:05 PM
Quote:
 
As an ancient Chinese adage goes, “The greatest ideal is to create a world truly shared by all.” Peace, development, equity, justice, democracy and freedom are common values of all mankind and the lofty goals of the United Nations. Yet these goals are far from being achieved, and we must continue our endeavor to meet them. In today’s world, all countries are interdependent and share a common future. We Should renew our commitment to the purposes and principles of the UN Charter, build a new type of international relations featuring win-win cooperation, and create a community of shared future for mankind. To achieve this goal, we need to make the following efforts:
I don't think you've been listening have you? :facepalm:

If there is anything that Corbyn is known for it's his lets all get along, and dare I say it pacifist stance..............
Edited by Steve K, Nov 30 2015, 10:22 PM.
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Steve K
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Tigger
Nov 30 2015, 10:13 PM
Steve K
Nov 30 2015, 10:05 PM
Quote:
 
As an ancient Chinese adage goes, “The greatest ideal is to create a world truly shared by all.” Peace, development, equity, justice, democracy and freedom are common values of all mankind and the lofty goals of the United Nations. Yet these goals are far from being achieved, and we must continue our endeavor to meet them. In today’s world, all countries are interdependent and share a common future. We Should renew our commitment to the purposes and principles of the UN Charter, build a new type of international relations featuring win-win cooperation, and create a community of shared future for mankind. To achieve this goal, we need to make the following efforts:
I don't think you've been listening have you? :facepalm:

If there is anything that Corbyn is known for it's his lets all get along, and dare I say it pacifist stance..............
In other words he is NOT a leader, he's a vacillator at best an acute analyst. Someone to listen to


(PS you need to go back to quote editing school)
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Tigger
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Steve K
Nov 30 2015, 10:23 PM
In other words he is NOT a leader, he's a vacillator at best an acute analyst. Someone to listen to


(PS you need to go back to quote editing school)
Nope! Still not listening are you.

Lets face it whatever he does he'll be wrong, he does not fit the mould we have been trained to expect, we have become accustomed to being treated like fools, we accept dodgy fiscal policies because we can't think for ourselves, we cheer on inequality and bigotry, as long as we are not the victims of course, and we look on like dumb animals as our barely representative parliament strips away our dignity and our rights and sells the country to the highest bidder.

And then if someone tells us this is wrong he's a fucking idiot! ;D

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skwirked
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I would suggest a poll but the reactionary twatwits on here are almost certain to vote against; likely based on total ignorance.
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Tigger
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skwirked
Nov 30 2015, 10:47 PM
Save the patronising el crapo for someone else, he laid out a perfect summary as to why we shouldn't get involved ATM. He laid out how to smash funding sources. You just don't like Corb as ACH, I and others have pointed out and you will go out of your way to attack him, like a right-wing journo or something. Proud of that are you ([/SteveK accusatory tone]).
Yes, THE SOURCES OF FUNDS, the one area we could do some real damage to ISIS, and yet the prick in downing street values ME money more than the downgrading of this vile death cult.

Nauseating to say the least.
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Steve K
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Tigger
Nov 30 2015, 10:49 PM
..Lets face it whatever he does he'll be wrong, ..
Well I've praised some of his PMQ questions

But he's actually done not much has he. Appointed the racist Diana Abbott, the IRA lover McDonnell, signed off on a false flag financial plan and had to be reminded at the very last minute that a supposedly pro women policy actually requires him to appoint women

Still he's leading his party into that vote with a "oh just do what you like" line after his own shadow cabinet gave him a kicking http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34967024

Leaders lead, it's in the job description.
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Tigger
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Steve K
Nov 30 2015, 10:58 PM


But he's actually done not much has he. Appointed the racist Diana Abbott, the IRA lover McDonnell, signed off on a false flag financial plan and had to be reminded at the very last minute that a supposedly pro women policy actually requires him to appoint women

Still he's leading his party into that vote with a "oh just do what you like" line after his own shadow cabinet gave him a kicking http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34967024

Leaders lead, it's in the job description.
What you are describing is the pre Thatcher era of politics, ie the party leader is the first among equals and at times acts as a chairman forming views.

Sadly we've become accustomed to dictatorial politics and the notion the leader must be obeyed at all times, as a grown up I understand that I can't agree with those around me all the time and if I did I'd be little more that a voiceless place man making up the numbers.

The last thing I want is a jingoistic flag waving idiot, I for one have had a belly full of those sort of "leaders" because eventually they will humiliate our country.
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Tytoalba
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ACH1967
Nov 30 2015, 03:16 PM
Tytoalba
Nov 30 2015, 02:32 PM
Tigger
Nov 29 2015, 11:22 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Who and what are the ordinary folk, and how do you define them? It was the ordinary folk that ignored Milliband and his brand of government and led to the Election of a conservative government.
Do you think that the " folk" of all strata's of society, of all level of wealth, ages and education have to be of the "working class" who I think you perceive as underdogs of society, and therefore committed labour party supporters and will vote for a left wing socialist agenda.
We are individuals, and as free individuals we will make free choices for ourselves and our families, have our own ambitions and our individual aspirations.
Do we really want a political party with its own political agenda dictating what we must do , who we must vote for, and how we must run our individual lives?
Yes and it is as individuals we are effectively divided and conquered. It was to stop this dividing and conquering that the Labour party was set up. It lost its way in it's enthusiasm to do good.
Conquered by whom? Just who is or what is it you feel so threatened by? In every walk of life there are people who exercise some form of control over us and our actions, be it a parent or a partner, the person who is overseeing us at work or the captain or manager of the sports team we are members of but we are free to walk away at anytime.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
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Tigger
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Tytoalba
Nov 30 2015, 11:11 PM
ACH1967
Nov 30 2015, 03:16 PM
Tytoalba
Nov 30 2015, 02:32 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Yes and it is as individuals we are effectively divided and conquered. It was to stop this dividing and conquering that the Labour party was set up. It lost its way in it's enthusiasm to do good.
Conquered by whom? Just who is or what is it you feel so threatened by? In every walk of life there are people who exercise some form of control over us and our actions, be it a parent or a partner, the person who is overseeing us at work or the captain or manager of the sports team we are members of but we are free to walk away at anytime.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
Show me a poet and I'll show you a shit.

A.J. Liebling.1904-63.

;-)
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Rich
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Cymru
Nov 26 2015, 09:41 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/26/jeremy-corbyn-media-coverage_n_8653886.html

We do not have a free press, we have a press where one is free to say what one wishes within the limitations set by an establishment which on the one hand does not want to appear to be silencing all dissent because that would make their power obvious, but on the other hand will not allow popular upstarts like Corbyn to become a genuine threat to them.

This establishment prefers the manufactured opposition they act out their 'disagreements' with for the public's benefit.
I suppose one must blame people for believing what they read (that includes me at times) but in the absence of hearing it from the horses mouth, one has to start somewhere in order to form an opinion, If I were a newspaper owner with a revelation to expose then I would challenge the the government on the basis of public interest....I forget who it was that said "publish and be damned" but it seems to me that that is what the press should do now, if they all acted in concert what COULD the government do? and once the truth is out then the boot is on the other foot for the Government to disprove any claims that might embarrass them.
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ACH1967
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I think that Corbyn isn’t up to the job. But I also think that he is in an unenviable position. How can anyone “Lead” a party that is pretty much determined to get rid of him? The whole position is a travesty. Milliband changed the voting rules. A load of “harder” left wing individuals join the party and vote him in so you have a leader that reflects the “new” membership (and it is worth remembering that the membership is not representative of labour supporters) but not his parliamentary party who are the type of career politicians that I think it is fairly safe to say the electorate are pretty sick of. So they are all trying to shaft him because he is spoiling their little party and his employment opportunities with nasty little things like conviction, ethics and firmly held beliefs…outrageous. Even so, he does come across as a tosser. He is going to have to up his game and get a bit of polish but the odds are still pretty heavily stacked against him.
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ACH1967
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Tytoalba
Nov 30 2015, 11:11 PM
ACH1967
Nov 30 2015, 03:16 PM
Tytoalba
Nov 30 2015, 02:32 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Yes and it is as individuals we are effectively divided and conquered. It was to stop this dividing and conquering that the Labour party was set up. It lost its way in it's enthusiasm to do good.
Conquered by whom? Just who is or what is it you feel so threatened by? In every walk of life there are people who exercise some form of control over us and our actions, be it a parent or a partner, the person who is overseeing us at work or the captain or manager of the sports team we are members of but we are free to walk away at anytime.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
"Threatened"...nice try.

Are you seriously trying to say that the poor and weak are not divided and set to fighting amongst themselves so that the rich can exploit them and it was only by grouping together that the workers improved their conditions?

It has happened for centuries and it will continue to happen. Vested interests will protect their interests. The only thing is that we should continue to challenge and dismantle this but not throw the baby out with the bath water.
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Tytoalba
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skwirked
Nov 30 2015, 11:17 PM
Not if I had to send fighters thousands of miles away to do it and it could ultimately cost far more innocent lives than it saves, no I would not do it.

There is no plan here, it's just the ULOB from the govt and its foreign policy 'hawks'.
Fortunately for us your not in a position to do anything or make decisions in the national interest.
Needs must when the Devil drives, and we elect Members of Parliament who have access to the very latest intelligence to debate such matters and make informed judgements and decisions.
We have volunteer armed forces who are prepared to put themselves in harms way on our behalf, and than heavens we do.

In one respect I agree with Corbyn, and that is that it should be a free vote by all MPs from all parties, who make the decision to make precise strikes upon our enemies.
Corbyn is but one man, a pacifist, with a preconceived and committed position, one that clouds his judgement, when what we need is am open mind to all the information available, and one to be decided by ALL the MPs in the HOC.

Perhaps if we all watch the debate that will take place and is free to view on TV tomorrow we will all be better informed and be able to make our own reasoned decisions without our political Dogma getting in the way.
What we can be sure of is that which ever side you end up supporting, one will be in a position to say in the future one was right ,for hindsight is an exact science, whilst making decisions on an issue such as this is hugely complicated and is NOT an exact science. One has to ask "Are all the other countries political leaders wrong in their decisions to bomb rebels in Syria and would our country be right not to?
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skwirked
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"Fortunately for us"

Don't try and speak for the nation, you are cringeworthy.

Fortunately there are sensible people in this country who understand that bombing with impunity and without a plan is a totally moronic idea.

Got it?
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Tytoalba
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ACH1967
Dec 1 2015, 08:56 AM
Tytoalba
Nov 30 2015, 11:11 PM
ACH1967
Nov 30 2015, 03:16 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Conquered by whom? Just who is or what is it you feel so threatened by? In every walk of life there are people who exercise some form of control over us and our actions, be it a parent or a partner, the person who is overseeing us at work or the captain or manager of the sports team we are members of but we are free to walk away at anytime.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
"Threatened"...nice try.

Are you seriously trying to say that the poor and weak are not divided and set to fighting amongst themselves so that the rich can exploit them and it was only by grouping together that the workers improved their conditions?

It has happened for centuries and it will continue to happen. Vested interests will protect their interests. The only thing is that we should continue to challenge and dismantle this but not throw the baby out with the bath water.
If we were to take a thousand young people from all walks of life, give them each £10 000, and tell them to go out and improve their lives, what we can be certain of is that in two years hence, some will be broke, some will be rich, some secure and others destitute. Some will have spent it all on themselves others will have saved what they can or sensibly invested it .Some may even have got on their bikes.
Its much the same in all walks of life where opportunities are there and presented, but with luck and good fortune, or bad all effecting the outcome. The best we can do is to try and level the playing field, but in the end it has to be down to the individual, and the choices made.
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ACH1967
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Any chance we could tone down the name calling and concentrate on the debate please.
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