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Oldham West And Royton 3rd Dec
Topic Started: Nov 27 2015, 09:18 PM (1,429 Views)
Opinionater
Senior Member
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A safe Labour seat or is it, all eyes on UKIP?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34946969

Could they pull it off, if it rains would that help UKIP.
Edited by Opinionater, Nov 28 2015, 08:06 PM.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Stonefish
Dec 5 2015, 08:14 AM
skwirked
Dec 5 2015, 01:47 AM
I am sure Farage has been misrepresented but to be fair, as Steve pointed out, he's talked plenty of utter shite too. I think most UKIPpers probably realise this.

That said all the publicity seemed to help UKIP as they polled so highly at the gen election. :rubchin:


Farage is constantly misrepresented and are you seriously saying Cameron and Corbyn don't talk complete shite either sometimes?

Yes people don't like unfair bullying, which I believe may help explain the half decent votes Labour won in Oldham.

I think Farage is more guilty of saying things as they are , on 'what are to some sensitive,almost taboo subjects and they don't like the truth.

Strawman arguments are used a lot again't Farage and UKIP ,ie we want controlled immigration = 'you don't want immigration' or 'your all racists' and of course the good old 'the NHS would collapse without immigrants'.
We want controlled immigration not zero immigration. If the Gov. do not get a grip on the rate that economic migrants enter and stay in the UK for work then it will find it very difficult, nay nigh on impossible, to create the environment for a higher value adding economy with better wages that produce an increased net disposable income. Increasing the pool of unskilled poorly educated workers looking for their first jobs undermines the desire to increase productivity. It looks to me that not only does the EU wish to frustrate our desire to introduce such controls, but Corbyn is not enthusiastic either. Well Labour do need to boost immigrant voting numbers.

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C-too
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gansao
Dec 4 2015, 03:39 PM
Tytoalba
Dec 4 2015, 09:56 AM
johnofgwent
Dec 4 2015, 07:50 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deephttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35003373

It could be an anti bombing vote by an ethnic minority. Are thee any figures for the make up of Oldham's racial and religious demographic make up?
You may well view the question as racist ,but in the light of the known support that exists for IS in Britain it may be relevant to our future.


Don't blame it on the Tories
Don't blame it on scare stories
Who cares who's fault the war is.
Blame it on the muslims.
Apparently there are some poll results, (in the telegraph ?) that claim 30% of the population as a whole are against the bombing of Isis in Syria, while just over 50 of Muslims are against it.

Oldham does have a large Muslim population.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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C-too
Dec 5 2015, 08:54 AM
gansao
Dec 4 2015, 03:39 PM
Tytoalba
Dec 4 2015, 09:56 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deephttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35003373


Don't blame it on the Tories
Don't blame it on scare stories
Who cares who's fault the war is.
Blame it on the muslims.
Apparently there are some poll results, (in the telegraph ?) that claim 30% of the population as a whole are against the bombing of Isis in Syria, while just over 50 of Muslims are against it.

Oldham does have a large Muslim population.
Labour's "Client State"?
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papasmurf
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C-too
Dec 5 2015, 08:54 AM


Oldham does have a large Muslim population.
http://www.vaoldham.org.uk/sites/vaoldham.org.uk/files/Census%202011%20key%20stats%20briefing%2014%20Dec%2012.pdf

Summary
Key findings for Oldham are as follows:
• Ethnic Minority (non-white) population share increased from 13.9% (2001) to 22.5% (2011), a significantly greater change than nationally.
Oldham has relatively large Pakistani (10.1%) and Bangladeshi (7.3%) populations, but other groups are
proportionately smaller than nationally.

• Less than 2% of the population were born in the EU (excluding the UK and Ireland), a lot lower than the national average (3.7%). Oldham has over 1,000 Polish residents, but few residents from the rest of Eastern Europe, with smaller but significant numbers of residents born in Ireland, Germany and Italy. As well as having significant numbers of residents born in Pakistan and Bangladesh, smaller but still significant numbers of residents were
born in India, Nigeria, Kenya, Zimbabwe, China and Hong Kong.

• The majority of residents are Christian (59.7%), markedly lower than in 2001 (72.6%). In
2011, 17.7% of residents were Muslim, and 16.1% had No Religion.
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skwirked
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Stonefish
Dec 5 2015, 08:14 AM
skwirked
Dec 5 2015, 01:47 AM
I am sure Farage has been misrepresented but to be fair, as Steve pointed out, he's talked plenty of utter shite too. I think most UKIPpers probably realise this.

That said all the publicity seemed to help UKIP as they polled so highly at the gen election. :rubchin:


Farage is constantly misrepresented and are you seriously saying Cameron and Corbyn don't talk complete shite either sometimes?

Yes people don't like unfair bullying, which I believe may help explain the half decent votes Labour won in Oldham.

I think Farage is more guilty of saying things as they are , on 'what are to some sensitive,almost taboo subjects and they don't like the truth.

Strawman arguments are used a lot again't Farage and UKIP ,ie we want controlled immigration = 'you don't want immigration' or 'your all racists' and of course the good old 'the NHS would collapse without immigrants'.
No I quite agree that all politicians utter a magnitude of la crapola.

Please feel free to correct any lies told about Nige. I am sure we will give your evidence a fair hearing.

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papasmurf
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skwirked
Dec 5 2015, 09:06 AM


Please feel free to correct any lies told about Nige.

Farage is upset because the people have spoken. The bastards.
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C-too
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RJD
Dec 5 2015, 08:59 AM
C-too
Dec 5 2015, 08:54 AM
gansao
Dec 4 2015, 03:39 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deephttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35003373
Apparently there are some poll results, (in the telegraph ?) that claim 30% of the population as a whole are against the bombing of Isis in Syria, while just over 50 of Muslims are against it.

Oldham does have a large Muslim population.
Labour's "Client State"?
Increased by the don't bomb Isis Muslims ? Is the possibility.

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Stonefish
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papasmurf
Dec 5 2015, 09:08 AM
skwirked
Dec 5 2015, 09:06 AM


Please feel free to correct any lies told about Nige.

Farage is upset because the people have spoken. The bastards.


Farage is upset because there has been some indication electoral fraud,as we have seen in Birmingham and Tower Hamlets.

He clearly has stated it wouldn't have altered the end results,but unlike some fraud for some strange reason electoral fraud seems to perturb him
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disgruntled porker
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Older than most people think I am.
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RJD
Dec 4 2015, 06:18 PM
I saw a speculation somewhere earlier today that Labour is now and will more so become the Party that represents Public Sector Unions, Muslims and those on Welfare Benefits. Not a situation that bodes well for the economy, Labour devastated the manufacturing sector after so much care had been made to rebuild it, on top of that they allowed an abundance of people looking for their 1st jobs which depressed wage rates. Fortunately we now have a Gov. interested in real jobs and wage rates, but it would not take long for the leftards to undo all progress.
The scientists are right and a multiverse does indeed exist. Seems they cross over at times too.
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skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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disgruntled porker
Dec 5 2015, 09:44 AM
RJD
Dec 4 2015, 06:18 PM
I saw a speculation somewhere earlier today that Labour is now and will more so become the Party that represents Public Sector Unions, Muslims and those on Welfare Benefits. Not a situation that bodes well for the economy, Labour devastated the manufacturing sector after so much care had been made to rebuild it, on top of that they allowed an abundance of people looking for their 1st jobs which depressed wage rates. Fortunately we now have a Gov. interested in real jobs and wage rates, but it would not take long for the leftards to undo all progress.
The scientists are right and a multiverse does indeed exist. Seems they cross over at times too.
;D
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Tigger
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RJD
Dec 5 2015, 08:36 AM


increases in welfare
increases in borrowing
unfettered immigration
increase NHS spending
scrap MI5
disarm the Police
hug a Terrorist
cut down the MOD such that it can only undertake parades
BofE to print money to pay for Gov. projects
leave the EU
nationalise the Railways and Utilities






I see you've been helping write the governments latest manifesto, I'd erase the one at the bottom of your list otherwise some might laugh at you.

File under Wurthers overdose.
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Rich
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papasmurf
Dec 5 2015, 09:02 AM
C-too
Dec 5 2015, 08:54 AM


Oldham does have a large Muslim population.
http://www.vaoldham.org.uk/sites/vaoldham.org.uk/files/Census%202011%20key%20stats%20briefing%2014%20Dec%2012.pdf

Summary
Key findings for Oldham are as follows:
• Ethnic Minority (non-white) population share increased from 13.9% (2001) to 22.5% (2011), a significantly greater change than nationally.
Oldham has relatively large Pakistani (10.1%) and Bangladeshi (7.3%) populations, but other groups are
proportionately smaller than nationally.

• Less than 2% of the population were born in the EU (excluding the UK and Ireland), a lot lower than the national average (3.7%). Oldham has over 1,000 Polish residents, but few residents from the rest of Eastern Europe, with smaller but significant numbers of residents born in Ireland, Germany and Italy. As well as having significant numbers of residents born in Pakistan and Bangladesh, smaller but still significant numbers of residents were
born in India, Nigeria, Kenya, Zimbabwe, China and Hong Kong.

• The majority of residents are Christian (59.7%), markedly lower than in 2001 (72.6%). In
2011, 17.7% of residents were Muslim, and 16.1% had No Religion.
And that is just the legally registered ones, nobody knows for sure who is where and how many.
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Steve K
Dec 5 2015, 12:42 AM
skwirked
Dec 4 2015, 11:41 PM
It still amuses me that Mr Forage 'knew' that a single ballot box had 99% Muslim votes.

Psychic? Cheat? :rubchin:
Or misreported. He did not say that did he

But this may amuse Farage's excuses get worse and worse

Amongst other things it shreds the actual 99% claim that he did make
well if we're going there, here's a load of pollocks (Tim Brooks' pollox in fact) to ponder ...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/oldham-west-and-royton-by-election-why-jeremy-corbyn-is-doing-worse-than-ed-miliband-a6760331.html
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Tytoalba
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gansao
Dec 4 2015, 10:52 PM
Stonefish
Dec 4 2015, 10:47 PM
gansao
Dec 4 2015, 04:13 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep


Oh yeah and how the f--k does he think he'll achieve this?

Complete pie in the f--g sky,Corbyn is a JOKE.


If I give you a crayon you can write that in a toilet.

What can be achieved by flinging bombs ?
Do you honestly think that the UK throwing more bombs at targets in Syria will be the solution?
Have a little think and see if you can come up with an answer..preferably when you are sober.
Deplete their source of income by destroying the means of producing and selling oil, and offering the same sort of threats to their own lives that they offer to us. its all part of a unified show of force that is designed to undermine their will to fight.
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Tytoalba
Senior Member
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Tigger
Dec 5 2015, 10:56 PM
RJD
Dec 5 2015, 08:36 AM


increases in welfare
increases in borrowing
unfettered immigration
increase NHS spending
scrap MI5
disarm the Police
hug a Terrorist
cut down the MOD such that it can only undertake parades
BofE to print money to pay for Gov. projects
leave the EU
nationalise the Railways and Utilities






I see you've been helping write the governments latest manifesto, I'd erase the one at the bottom of your list otherwise some might laugh at you.

File under Wurthers overdose.
As a sharing caring person your rather fond of your ageist remarks.
Why the need to do so?
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Tytoalba
Dec 6 2015, 03:58 PM
gansao
Dec 4 2015, 10:52 PM
Stonefish
Dec 4 2015, 10:47 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep


If I give you a crayon you can write that in a toilet.

What can be achieved by flinging bombs ?
Do you honestly think that the UK throwing more bombs at targets in Syria will be the solution?
Have a little think and see if you can come up with an answer..preferably when you are sober.
Deplete their source of income by destroying the means of producing and selling oil, and offering the same sort of threats to their own lives that they offer to us. its all part of a unified show of force that is designed to undermine their will to fight.


The post that Stonefish replied to was this

Thats because you somehow feel the need to misrepresent his point or you are unable to understand it.

What he wants is for the UK not to exacerbate the problem by inflicting innocent casualties and to strive for a diplomatic and political end.
A diplomatic and political end does not preclude the use of force.
Glad to help.


Notice that I was careful to point out that 'A diplomatic and political end does not preclude the use of force.'
After the rant from Stonefish I stressed that 'flinging bombs' will achieve nothing.
I used the term 'flinging' because I assumed that he read my post before attacking his key board.
My point is that I concede that some force may be necessary and I believe that Corbyn has not ruled it out by asking for diplomatic and political solutions.

Also I will point out that killing innocents tends to radicalise people so attacking ISIS in areas where innocent people live is not a good idea...something Corbyn pointed out iirc and something Cameron has not acknowledged.
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Stonefish
Dec 5 2015, 12:41 AM
gansao
Dec 4 2015, 10:52 PM
Stonefish
Dec 4 2015, 10:47 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep


If I give you a crayon you can write that in a toilet.

What can be achieved by flinging bombs ?
Do you honestly think that the UK throwing more bombs at targets in Syria will be the solution?
Have a little think and see if you can come up with an answer..preferably when you are sober.


Yep ,answer a question with a question,says it all really.

In other words,like your mate,you have no idea.

Hey why don't you and Jez go out there tomorrow and see how you get on with your negotiations,btw where should I send the wreaths?


Had you actually looked at the post you relied to you would have seen that force was not excluded .A diplomatic and political end does not preclude the use of force.'..remember?
Instead you bashed out a rant more suited to a drunken youtube debate.
And you have the temerity to criticise my response to it.
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skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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Tigger
Dec 5 2015, 10:56 PM
RJD
Dec 5 2015, 08:36 AM


increases in welfare
increases in borrowing
unfettered immigration
increase NHS spending
scrap MI5
disarm the Police
hug a Terrorist
cut down the MOD such that it can only undertake parades
BofE to print money to pay for Gov. projects
leave the EU
nationalise the Railways and Utilities






I see you've been helping write the governments latest manifesto, I'd erase the one at the bottom of your list otherwise some might laugh at you.

File under Wurthers overdose.
!jk!

Dunno who said it but "Cam and Giddy would grow beards and emulate Corbyn if they thought it'd be politically expedient" < so bloody true.

The modern Tories are COMPLETELY spineless jellies.

I can't remember the comedy sketch, but there was one based on DC where he repeats w/e the voter says to him and adds "And I agree." and eventually gets punched.
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Tigger
Senior Member
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Tytoalba
Dec 6 2015, 04:03 PM
As a sharing caring person your rather fond of your ageist remarks.
Why the need to do so?
I'm not especially caring and sharing in the traditional sense, however I don't consider age a defence for posting verifiable nonsense and mean spirited bilge.
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Stonefish
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Tigger
Dec 6 2015, 06:56 PM
Tytoalba
Dec 6 2015, 04:03 PM
As a sharing caring person your rather fond of your ageist remarks.
Why the need to do so?
I'm not especially caring and sharing in the traditional sense, however I don't consider age a defence for posting verifiable nonsense and mean spirited bilge.


That's you screwed then.
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Tigger
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Stonefish
Dec 6 2015, 08:06 PM


That's you screwed then.
Perhaps, but I can still separate fact from fiction............
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Stonefish
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Tigger
Dec 6 2015, 08:11 PM
Stonefish
Dec 6 2015, 08:06 PM


That's you screwed then.
Perhaps, but I can still separate fact from fiction............
!jk! !jk! !jk! !jk!
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Tytoalba
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Tigger
Dec 6 2015, 06:56 PM
Tytoalba
Dec 6 2015, 04:03 PM
As a sharing caring person your rather fond of your ageist remarks.
Why the need to do so?
I'm not especially caring and sharing in the traditional sense, however I don't consider age a defence for posting verifiable nonsense and mean spirited bilge.
Its obvious that youth is wasted on the young. Age has no relevance to the posts of others. Address the post not the poster.
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Deleted User
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Tytoalba
Dec 6 2015, 11:27 PM
Tigger
Dec 6 2015, 06:56 PM
Tytoalba
Dec 6 2015, 04:03 PM
As a sharing caring person your rather fond of your ageist remarks.
Why the need to do so?
I'm not especially caring and sharing in the traditional sense, however I don't consider age a defence for posting verifiable nonsense and mean spirited bilge.
Its obvious that youth is wasted on the young.



!jk!

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skwirked
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That is a classic quote.
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Deleted User
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skwirked
Dec 6 2015, 11:37 PM
That is a classic quote.


And it is equally deluded nonsense every time it is trotted out.
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Steve K
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!mod-s! some naughty posts have been removed along with those that quoted them

Please no one make me angry by repeating them
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Steve K
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Steve K
Dec 7 2015, 10:36 PM
!mod-s! some naughty posts have been removed along with those that quoted them

Please no one make me angry by repeating them
!mod! seems some people couldn't see that that ^ was a mod notice and carried on

I've taken the mildest sanctions I believe I can but there are much bigger and nastier options in the mod toolbox
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Steve K
Dec 8 2015, 10:08 PM
Steve K
Dec 7 2015, 10:36 PM
!mod-s! some naughty posts have been removed along with those that quoted them

Please no one make me angry by repeating them
!mod! seems some people couldn't see that that ^ was a mod notice and carried on

I've taken the mildest sanctions I believe I can but there are much bigger and nastier options in the mod toolbox
I do not understand your message, your warning as I do not know who or why you used your powers to sanction and/or remove Postings that offend your eye, therefore, I am not able to learn any lessons from this example(s) hidden from my eye. Who and what?

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Steve K
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I'm not going to give examples RJD. Some of the posts are in the obvious threads in the Dungeon

A Mod notice was given, it was ignored. If posters think the norm is Steve will move jibes to the Dungeon and that will be the end of it they are very mistaken.

Now can we get back to topic?
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Opinionater
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Labour won, UKIP came second.

Labour did much better than expected, UKIP fell short of expectations.

Why?

Labour vote held up and gained momentum on the back of Corbyn being put down by the press and Cameron failing to make an apology for his terrorist remark.

UKIP never got the lift in votes because they had to come from Labour and the labour vote was firm, also the UKIP campaign was to negative.

Anyone agree, disagree with the above?
Edited by Opinionater, Dec 10 2015, 02:55 PM.
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skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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Opinionater
Dec 10 2015, 02:54 PM
Labour won, UKIP came second.

Labour did much better than expected, UKIP fell short of expectations.

Why?

Labour vote held up and gained momentum on the back of Corbyn being put down by the press and Cameron failing to make an apology for his terrorist remark.

UKIP never got the lift in votes because they had to come from Labour and the labour vote was firm, also the UKIP campaign was to negative.

Anyone agree, disagree with the above?
:thumbsup:
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Steve K
Dec 9 2015, 09:51 AM
I'm not going to give examples RJD. Some of the posts are in the obvious threads in the Dungeon

A Mod notice was given, it was ignored. If posters think the norm is Steve will move jibes to the Dungeon and that will be the end of it they are very mistaken.

Now can we get back to topic?
No. You left a message which appeared to be for general consumption which for me was meaningless. Maybe it was aimed at an unnamed person who hopefully knows who he is?
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Opinionater
Dec 10 2015, 02:54 PM
Labour won, UKIP came second.

Labour did much better than expected, UKIP fell short of expectations.

Why?

Labour vote held up and gained momentum on the back of Corbyn being put down by the press and Cameron failing to make an apology for his terrorist remark.

UKIP never got the lift in votes because they had to come from Labour and the labour vote was firm, also the UKIP campaign was to negative.

Anyone agree, disagree with the above?
I really do not understand how a reduction in a voting tally can be claimed as having momentum or firm or even anything positive wrt to Comrade Corbyn? Surely the lesson is that Comrade Corbyn had a negative effect and if it was not due to the presence of a local man of good reputation who sits on the rhs of the Labour Party then the likelihood is the seat would be lost. I see no reason for cheer in the Labour ranks other than the relief that the outcome was not worse. If anyone is smiling it must be the Blairites.
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skwirked
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..reduction in voting tally?
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Affa
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An interesting fact that I'm sure RJD will find disturbing.
The 'momentum' factor? Which party increased its vote the most in the 2015 General election.
It wasn't the Tories.
Conservative total votes 2010 =10,703,654
C in 2015 =11,334,576
An increase of 630922 votes.

Labour Party votes 2010 = 8,606,517
L in 2015 = 9,347,304
An increase of 749787 votes

Edited by Affa, Dec 10 2015, 03:49 PM.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Affa
Dec 10 2015, 03:47 PM
An interesting fact that I'm sure RJD will find disturbing.
The 'momentum' factor? Which party increased its vote the most in the 2015 General election.
It wasn't the Tories.
Conservative total votes 2010 =10,703,654
C in 2015 =11,334,576
An increase of 630922 votes.

Labour Party votes 2010 = 8,606,517
L in 2015 = 9,347,304
An increase of 749787 votes

I had the impression that the word momentum was used wrt to the Labour vote in Oldham. If so what do you think these numbers add to that? Classic ground shifting.
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Opinionater
Senior Member
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RJD
Dec 10 2015, 04:12 PM
Affa
Dec 10 2015, 03:47 PM
An interesting fact that I'm sure RJD will find disturbing.
The 'momentum' factor? Which party increased its vote the most in the 2015 General election.
It wasn't the Tories.
Conservative total votes 2010 =10,703,654
C in 2015 =11,334,576
An increase of 630922 votes.

Labour Party votes 2010 = 8,606,517
L in 2015 = 9,347,304
An increase of 749787 votes

I had the impression that the word momentum was used wrt to the Labour vote in Oldham. If so what do you think these numbers add to that? Classic ground shifting.
Well they show an increase in the Labour vote, where has the ground shifted, the earth didn't move for me.

And what do you make refer to when you talk of a reduction in voting tally?
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Tigger
Senior Member
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I really do not understand how a reduction in a voting tally can be claimed as having momentum or firm or even anything positive wrt to Comrade Corbyn? Surely the lesson is that Comrade Corbyn had a negative effect and if it was not due to the presence of a local man of good reputation who sits on the rhs of the Labour Party then the likelihood is the seat would be lost. I see no reason for cheer in the Labour ranks other than the relief that the outcome was not worse. If anyone is smiling it must be the Blairites.[/quote]




Hard not to laugh at the contorted "logic" on display here! ;D

Sour grapes anyone?
Edited by Tigger, Dec 10 2015, 08:56 PM.
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