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In Defence of Jeremy Corbyn [Freddy Gray - The Spectator]; Naive he may be, but he’s consistent – and at least he’s thinking about the future
Topic Started: Dec 1 2015, 06:18 PM (1,016 Views)
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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Quote:
 


[...]

As leader of the opposition, he used to say that liberty ‘cannot be dropped from the air by an unmanned drone’. As Prime Minister, however, he has been banging away on the war drum, trying to persuade the public to sing along.

[...]

It becomes clearer with every crisis that Cameron makes up his foreign policy as he goes along. This week his aides have been pompously telling MPs to ‘be Churchill not Chamberlain’ in the face of the terror threat. Cameron hopes that the prevailing mood of fear and loathing about Isis will mean he can persuade Parliament to bomb Syria. Except we all know that two years ago, Cameron wanted to bomb Isis’s great enemy, President Assad, which would have been a tremendous boon to Islamist scumbags across the region.

[...]

We all wish Isis gone, but the new plan to bomb Syria is as little thought-through as the last one. There’s no evidence that more air strikes (without troops on the ground) will bring peace to Syria and Iraq. To succeed, objectives and a strategy are needed, both of which the Cameroons lack. Jeremy Corbyn is mocked for calling for a ‘negotiated settlement’ with Assad and other parties in the conflict — how wet! — but at least he is trying to think about the future. Cameron’s Syria plan is to get himself worked up, throw a few more bombs at the baddies, and hope for the best. We have to ask: which leader is the more deluded?



http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/jeremy-corbyn-is-more-sensible-about-syria-than-david-cameron/

Indeed. Well said, Fred.

Just what is it we hope to achieve with this provenly stupid course of action? Please keep the yanks out of it...or prepare for a total calamity.

I heard some of what Corb's been saying today on the radio, it sounded leaderish enough to me. He is quite clear that negotiation, cutting funding sources and supporting our allies is the order of the day here.
Edited by skwirked, Dec 7 2015, 09:31 PM.
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Tigger
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Here is what Cameron is not mentioning in his attempts to look statesmanlike.

Russia, Assad, Iran and the Kurds are part of the solution, unpalatable but given the strategic necessities a given.

And Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States and to a lesser extent Turkey are the problems because nominally they are our friends.

Russia will not miss a chance to get one over on the West, Iran is untrustworthy as are Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States and Turkey given it's strategic interests.

And Dave thinks a good start to solving this is to drop some bombs.  ::)

Corbyn looks positively sane by comparison!
Edited by Tigger, Dec 1 2015, 08:39 PM.
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skwirked
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Corbyn wrote an excellent article in the Grauniad:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/01/cameron-failed-show-bombing-syria-isil-work-jihadist

Quote:
 
Cameron’s approach is bomb first, talk later. But instead of adding British bombs to the others now raining down on Syria, what’s needed is an acceleration of the peace talks in Vienna, involving all the main regional and international powers, with the aim of negotiating a broad-based government in Syria that has the support of the majority of its people. In the context of such a settlement, internationally backed regional forces could help to take back territory from Isil. But its lasting defeat in Syria can only be secured by Syrians themselves.


Posted Image
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Stonefish
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skwirked
Dec 2 2015, 04:48 AM
Corbyn wrote an excellent article in the Grauniad:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/01/cameron-failed-show-bombing-syria-isil-work-jihadist

Quote:
 
Cameron’s approach is bomb first, talk later. But instead of adding British bombs to the others now raining down on Syria, what’s needed is an acceleration of the peace talks in Vienna, involving all the main regional and international powers, with the aim of negotiating a broad-based government in Syria that has the support of the majority of its people. In the context of such a settlement, internationally backed regional forces could help to take back territory from Isil. But its lasting defeat in Syria can only be secured by Syrians themselves.


Posted Image


The scribblings of a totally deluded man.

You are NOT going to get the half dozen or so factions in Syria to agree ,let along hold to any kind of agreement.It's absurd.Not to mention some of those factions are extreme themselves.

The ONLY viable solution is to get Assad back in control ,Russia knows it,the west seems to be waking up to the fact.

Either that or go Corbyn style and see decades of misery in Syria with the real possibility ISIS could take control of the country.

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RJD
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Stonefish
Dec 2 2015, 07:16 AM
skwirked
Dec 2 2015, 04:48 AM
Corbyn wrote an excellent article in the Grauniad:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/01/cameron-failed-show-bombing-syria-isil-work-jihadist

Quote:
 
Cameron’s approach is bomb first, talk later. But instead of adding British bombs to the others now raining down on Syria, what’s needed is an acceleration of the peace talks in Vienna, involving all the main regional and international powers, with the aim of negotiating a broad-based government in Syria that has the support of the majority of its people. In the context of such a settlement, internationally backed regional forces could help to take back territory from Isil. But its lasting defeat in Syria can only be secured by Syrians themselves.


Posted Image


The scribblings of a totally deluded man.

You are NOT going to get the half dozen or so factions in Syria to agree ,let along hold to any kind of agreement.It's absurd.Not to mention some of those factions are extreme themselves.

The ONLY viable solution is to get Assad back in control ,Russia knows it,the west seems to be waking up to the fact.

Either that or go Corbyn style and see decades of misery in Syria with the real possibility ISIS could take control of the country.

As someone said; "Corbyn's enemies are all within his own Party", the Tories, SNP and UKIP are all grinning like Cheshire Cats at every gaff he makes, which appears to be a daily event. Those that think Corbyn is doing a good job must have very low expectations. I wonder how long sensible minded people in the Labour Party will put up with this obvious loser? Maybe, before Christmas he will shout "I am an aged clapped out Marxist-Lenneist MP get me out of here"? One can only hope for the sake of a viable opposition. Based on the story so far Osborne could become the longest serving PM from 2020 to 2035 and outdo Brown at the Treasury.
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Jonksy
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RJD
Dec 2 2015, 08:35 AM
Stonefish
Dec 2 2015, 07:16 AM
skwirked
Dec 2 2015, 04:48 AM
Corbyn wrote an excellent article in the Grauniad:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/01/cameron-failed-show-bombing-syria-isil-work-jihadist


Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Image


The scribblings of a totally deluded man.

You are NOT going to get the half dozen or so factions in Syria to agree ,let along hold to any kind of agreement.It's absurd.Not to mention some of those factions are extreme themselves.

The ONLY viable solution is to get Assad back in control ,Russia knows it,the west seems to be waking up to the fact.

Either that or go Corbyn style and see decades of misery in Syria with the real possibility ISIS could take control of the country.

As someone said; "Corbyn's enemies are all within his own Party", the Tories, SNP and UKIP are all grinning like Cheshire Cats at every gaff he makes, which appears to be a daily event. Those that think Corbyn is doing a good job must have very low expectations. I wonder how long sensible minded people in the Labour Party will put up with this obvious loser? Maybe, before Christmas he will shout "I am an aged clapped out Marxist-Lenneist MP get me out of here"? One can only hope for the sake of a viable opposition. Based on the story so far Osborne could become the longest serving PM from 2020 to 2035 and outdo Brown at the Treasury.
Like or loath Corbyn at least he as the balls to stand up for his convictions unlike U-Turn dave..
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skwirked
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Stonefish
Dec 2 2015, 07:16 AM
skwirked
Dec 2 2015, 04:48 AM
Corbyn wrote an excellent article in the Grauniad:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/01/cameron-failed-show-bombing-syria-isil-work-jihadist

Quote:
 
Cameron’s approach is bomb first, talk later. But instead of adding British bombs to the others now raining down on Syria, what’s needed is an acceleration of the peace talks in Vienna, involving all the main regional and international powers, with the aim of negotiating a broad-based government in Syria that has the support of the majority of its people. In the context of such a settlement, internationally backed regional forces could help to take back territory from Isil. But its lasting defeat in Syria can only be secured by Syrians themselves.


Posted Image


The scribblings of a totally deluded man.

You are NOT going to get the half dozen or so factions in Syria to agree ,let along hold to any kind of agreement.It's absurd.Not to mention some of those factions are extreme themselves.

The ONLY viable solution is to get Assad back in control ,Russia knows it,the west seems to be waking up to the fact.

Either that or go Corbyn style and see decades of misery in Syria with the real possibility ISIS could take control of the country.

Yes you have a point re factions and you probably won't get the majority to agree, IMHO we need to get Shias onside there are many k's here and elsewhere willing to join the fight and a lot of them appear to be moderate..and yes we need Assad and Putin in firm control, lift all sanction s on both of them.
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AndyK
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Jonksy
Dec 2 2015, 12:11 PM
RJD
Dec 2 2015, 08:35 AM
Stonefish
Dec 2 2015, 07:16 AM
As someone said; "Corbyn's enemies are all within his own Party", the Tories, SNP and UKIP are all grinning like Cheshire Cats at every gaff he makes, which appears to be a daily event. Those that think Corbyn is doing a good job must have very low expectations. I wonder how long sensible minded people in the Labour Party will put up with this obvious loser? Maybe, before Christmas he will shout "I am an aged clapped out Marxist-Lenneist MP get me out of here"? One can only hope for the sake of a viable opposition. Based on the story so far Osborne could become the longest serving PM from 2020 to 2035 and outdo Brown at the Treasury.
Like or loath Corbyn at least he as the balls to stand up for his convictions unlike U-Turn dave..
I suspect that if Corbyn was PM, he would also suddenly become pro-bombing, just as Blair did.

Its funny that some people still think we are masters of our own destiny.
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C-too
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The call is to bomb areas of Syria where Isis is. Not to bomb Syria per se.

As far as I'm aware Corbyn's call for negotiations for peace is to negotiate with terrorists, not for negotiations with Assad. Meanwhile Syria / Assad are protected by Russia.
The UK call for bombing Syrian forces was in the early stages when Syrian forces were shooting and bombing Syrian people who had risen up against Assad.
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jaguar
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Jonksy
Dec 2 2015, 12:11 PM
RJD
Dec 2 2015, 08:35 AM
Stonefish
Dec 2 2015, 07:16 AM
As someone said; "Corbyn's enemies are all within his own Party", the Tories, SNP and UKIP are all grinning like Cheshire Cats at every gaff he makes, which appears to be a daily event. Those that think Corbyn is doing a good job must have very low expectations. I wonder how long sensible minded people in the Labour Party will put up with this obvious loser? Maybe, before Christmas he will shout "I am an aged clapped out Marxist-Lenneist MP get me out of here"? One can only hope for the sake of a viable opposition. Based on the story so far Osborne could become the longest serving PM from 2020 to 2035 and outdo Brown at the Treasury.
Like or loath Corbyn at least he as the balls to stand up for his convictions unlike U-Turn dave..
Whenever a Labour policy has been reversed in recent years it's been widely seen by the "usuals" as 'a party willing to listen and make changes when necessary' but when Tories dare alter a policy it's an 'utter shambles, terrible govt!'.
To compromise, or amend policy in the light of evidence or public opinion is good. The ability to be be persuaded on an issue is to be admired.
Only dinosaurs see it as "backing down".
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RJD
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C-too
Dec 2 2015, 01:59 PM
The call is to bomb areas of Syria where Isis is. Not to bomb Syria per se.

As far as I'm aware Corbyn's call for negotiations for peace is to negotiate with terrorists, not for negotiations with Assad. Meanwhile Syria / Assad are protected by Russia.
The UK call for bombing Syrian forces was in the early stages when Syrian forces were shooting and bombing Syrian people who had risen up against Assad.
Could anyone explain the process of identifying who one would negotiate with among the dozens of groups who are fighting against Assad? Which one or ones have the most legitimacy? If that is ISIL on what basis can there be any meaningful negotiation other than a declaration of surrender? Surely those that spout such heart felt thoughts first engage their brains?

That said to what extent does the Assad Gov. have legitimacy these days? Is it considered to be greater or less than that of ISIL?

Surely we are not expecting Cameron or Holland or Obama to come back from a peace conference with whoever it is that represents or leads ISIL waving a piece of paper headed "Peace in our time:"? Or are we?

ISIL are just an evil bunch of scumbags hiding behind an Islamist banner and women's skirts, best they are exterminated like vermin.




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skwirked
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The idiotic replies that assume Corbyn wants to negotiate with Daesh, defy belief and frankly such posters deserve to be laughed at. Absolute idiocy prevails.
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Jonksy
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jaguar
Dec 2 2015, 02:11 PM
Jonksy
Dec 2 2015, 12:11 PM
RJD
Dec 2 2015, 08:35 AM
Like or loath Corbyn at least he as the balls to stand up for his convictions unlike U-Turn dave..
Whenever a Labour policy has been reversed in recent years it's been widely seen by the "usuals" as 'a party willing to listen and make changes when necessary' but when Tories dare alter a policy it's an 'utter shambles, terrible govt!'.
To compromise, or amend policy in the light of evidence or public opinion is good. The ability to be be persuaded on an issue is to be admired.
Only dinosaurs see it as "backing down".
At least labour explain why they have changed their policies...Have the tories explained why dave has broken his promise to cut net immigration by the tens of thousands? Has osborne explained why he is still chancer after staking his reputation on retaining the UK's triple A status?
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Rich
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C-too
Dec 2 2015, 01:59 PM
The call is to bomb areas of Syria where Isis is. Not to bomb Syria per se.

As far as I'm aware Corbyn's call for negotiations for peace is to negotiate with terrorists, not for negotiations with Assad. Meanwhile Syria / Assad are protected by Russia.
The UK call for bombing Syrian forces was in the early stages when Syrian forces were shooting and bombing Syrian people who had risen up against Assad.
Is Corbyn unaware that Daesh do not WANT to talk, they are not interested in having a dialogue with the great satan and infidel.
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C-too
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skwirked
Dec 2 2015, 04:25 PM
The idiotic replies that assume Corbyn wants to negotiate with Daesh, defy belief and frankly such posters deserve to be laughed at. Absolute idiocy prevails.
Are you claiming that Corbyn has not argued for a negotiated peace ?

If you are looking for idiocy you need look no further than Corbyn.
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skwirked
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Yes I am telling you as a fact - Corbyn ruled out negotiating with Daesh in September go look it up.

That is what was suggested and it's ultra-reeky bullshite. I note a certain r-w tribalist plank asserted it as a proven fact.
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AndyK
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C-too
Dec 2 2015, 07:32 PM
skwirked
Dec 2 2015, 04:25 PM
The idiotic replies that assume Corbyn wants to negotiate with Daesh, defy belief and frankly such posters deserve to be laughed at. Absolute idiocy prevails.
Are you claiming that Corbyn has not argued for a negotiated peace ?

If you are looking for idiocy you need look no further than Corbyn.
The negotiations are to get Russia, Iran, Assad, Free syrian army and US/UK all on the same page.

The situation is unsolvable while each fights the other, ISIS just walks into the gaps.
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C-too
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skwirked
Dec 2 2015, 07:42 PM
Yes I am telling you as a fact - Corbyn ruled out negotiating with Daesh in September go look it up.

That is what was suggested and it's ultra-reeky bullshite. I note a certain r-w tribalist plank asserted it as a proven fact.
I never named Daesh, and perhaps we are seeing a change of rhetoric from this weasel.
I have heard Corbyn repeatedly say you must have a negotiated peace. With his refusal to back the attacks on Isis how do you think he is going to get his negotiated peace ?

Pity you feel so desired to defend the two faced approach of this man, it really does you no credit. In fact all it does is to make you aggressive.
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C-too
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AndyK
Dec 2 2015, 08:04 PM
C-too
Dec 2 2015, 07:32 PM
skwirked
Dec 2 2015, 04:25 PM
The idiotic replies that assume Corbyn wants to negotiate with Daesh, defy belief and frankly such posters deserve to be laughed at. Absolute idiocy prevails.
Are you claiming that Corbyn has not argued for a negotiated peace ?

If you are looking for idiocy you need look no further than Corbyn.
The negotiations are to get Russia, Iran, Assad, Free syrian army and US/UK all on the same page.

The situation is unsolvable while each fights the other, ISIS just walks into the gaps.
As far as I'm aware such negotiations are already taking place. Meanwhile how does one stop the spread of Isis ?
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RJD
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C-too
Dec 2 2015, 08:32 PM
AndyK
Dec 2 2015, 08:04 PM
C-too
Dec 2 2015, 07:32 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
The negotiations are to get Russia, Iran, Assad, Free syrian army and US/UK all on the same page.

The situation is unsolvable while each fights the other, ISIS just walks into the gaps.
As far as I'm aware such negotiations are already taking place. Meanwhile how does one stop the spread of Isis ?
Exterminate every man Jack of them and their camp followers, then a concerted effort to rebuild the ME. But how and what objectives?
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skwirked
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C-too
Dec 2 2015, 08:28 PM
skwirked
Dec 2 2015, 07:42 PM
Yes I am telling you as a fact - Corbyn ruled out negotiating with Daesh in September go look it up.

That is what was suggested and it's ultra-reeky bullshite. I note a certain r-w tribalist plank asserted it as a proven fact.
I never named Daesh, and perhaps we are seeing a change of rhetoric from this weasel.
I have heard Corbyn repeatedly say you must have a negotiated peace. With his refusal to back the attacks on Isis how do you think he is going to get his negotiated peace ?

Pity you feel so desired to defend the two faced approach of this man, it really does you no credit. In fact all it does is to make you aggressive.
Your hypocrisy is so amusing.

Attack Blair = you are a biased hateful mouth foamer
Attack Corbyn = perfectly ok

You call him a 'weasel' etc but if anyone so much as hints at Blair being corrupt, you instantly start the Alastair Campbell-esque sh1t flinging spin-on-it machine.

Even the most right-wing columnists can be seen defending Corbyn for his honesty. You decry the tabloids and yet you join in with them in flinging utter BS at Corbyn.

Hypocrisy at its best. ;-)

Edited by skwirked, Dec 4 2015, 08:46 AM.
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Stonefish
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skwirked
Dec 4 2015, 08:42 AM
C-too
Dec 2 2015, 08:28 PM
skwirked
Dec 2 2015, 07:42 PM
Yes I am telling you as a fact - Corbyn ruled out negotiating with Daesh in September go look it up.

That is what was suggested and it's ultra-reeky bullshite. I note a certain r-w tribalist plank asserted it as a proven fact.
I never named Daesh, and perhaps we are seeing a change of rhetoric from this weasel.
I have heard Corbyn repeatedly say you must have a negotiated peace. With his refusal to back the attacks on Isis how do you think he is going to get his negotiated peace ?

Pity you feel so desired to defend the two faced approach of this man, it really does you no credit. In fact all it does is to make you aggressive.
Your hypocrisy is so amusing.

Attack Blair = you are a biased hateful mouth foamer
Attack Corbyn = perfectly ok

You call him a 'weasel' etc but if anyone so much as hints at Blair being corrupt, you instantly start the Alastair Campbell-esque sh1t flinging spin-on-it machine.

Even the most right-wing columnists can be seen defending Corbyn for his honesty. You decry the tabloids and yet you join in with them in flinging utter BS at Corbyn.

Hypocrisy at its best. ;-)



The attacks on Corbyn pale into insignificance compared to the attacks weve seen on Farage and UKIP for their honesty.
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Steve K
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Stonefish
Dec 4 2015, 08:53 AM
The attacks on Corbyn pale into insignificance compared to the attacks weve seen on Farage and UKIP for their honesty.
!jk!

The man who signed a manifesto and then dismissed it as rubbish is supposed to be honest?  ::)

The man that's consistently used false figures to back his campaigns is honest?  ::)  ::)

The man that asked/demanded his only MP fiddle HofC expenses is honest?  ::)  ::)  ::)

The party that said their MEP Janice Atkinson calling a Thai born UKIP activist a "Ting Tong" wasn't in any way racist is honest? :nono:

I could go on.
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RJD
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Steve K
Dec 4 2015, 11:14 AM
Stonefish
Dec 4 2015, 08:53 AM
The attacks on Corbyn pale into insignificance compared to the attacks weve seen on Farage and UKIP for their honesty.
!jk!

The man who signed a manifesto and then dismissed it as rubbish is supposed to be honest?  ::)

The man that's consistently used false figures to back his campaigns is honest?  ::)  ::)

The man that asked/demanded his only MP fiddle HofC expenses is honest?  ::)  ::)  ::)

The party that said their MEP Janice Atkinson calling a Thai born UKIP activist a "Ting Tong" wasn't in any way racist is honest? :nono:

I could go on.
Yep and what you describe is a meat and veg politician.
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Stonefish
Senior Member
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Steve K
Dec 4 2015, 11:14 AM
Stonefish
Dec 4 2015, 08:53 AM
The attacks on Corbyn pale into insignificance compared to the attacks weve seen on Farage and UKIP for their honesty.
!jk!

The man who signed a manifesto and then dismissed it as rubbish is supposed to be honest?  ::)

The man that's consistently used false figures to back his campaigns is honest?  ::)  ::)

The man that asked/demanded his only MP fiddle HofC expenses is honest?  ::)  ::)  ::)

The party that said their MEP Janice Atkinson calling a Thai born UKIP activist a "Ting Tong" wasn't in any way racist is honest? :nono:

I could go on.


See what I mean?
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skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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RJD
Dec 4 2015, 11:46 AM
Steve K
Dec 4 2015, 11:14 AM
Stonefish
Dec 4 2015, 08:53 AM
The attacks on Corbyn pale into insignificance compared to the attacks weve seen on Farage and UKIP for their honesty.
!jk!

The man who signed a manifesto and then dismissed it as rubbish is supposed to be honest?  ::)

The man that's consistently used false figures to back his campaigns is honest?  ::)  ::)

The man that asked/demanded his only MP fiddle HofC expenses is honest?  ::)  ::)  ::)

The party that said their MEP Janice Atkinson calling a Thai born UKIP activist a "Ting Tong" wasn't in any way racist is honest? :nono:

I could go on.
Yep and what you describe is a meat and veg politician.
Now there's something we agree on. ;-)

Do you feel that Forage's distortions were OK? Better or worse than Corbyn's?
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C-too
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skwirked
Dec 4 2015, 08:42 AM
C-too
Dec 2 2015, 08:28 PM
skwirked
Dec 2 2015, 07:42 PM
Yes I am telling you as a fact - Corbyn ruled out negotiating with Daesh in September go look it up.

That is what was suggested and it's ultra-reeky bullshite. I note a certain r-w tribalist plank asserted it as a proven fact.
I never named Daesh, and perhaps we are seeing a change of rhetoric from this weasel.
I have heard Corbyn repeatedly say you must have a negotiated peace. With his refusal to back the attacks on Isis how do you think he is going to get his negotiated peace ?

Pity you feel so desired to defend the two faced approach of this man, it really does you no credit. In fact all it does is to make you aggressive.
Your hypocrisy is so amusing.

Attack Blair = you are a biased hateful mouth foamer
Attack Corbyn = perfectly ok

You call him a 'weasel' etc but if anyone so much as hints at Blair being corrupt, you instantly start the Alastair Campbell-esque sh1t flinging spin-on-it machine.

Even the most right-wing columnists can be seen defending Corbyn for his honesty. You decry the tabloids and yet you join in with them in flinging utter BS at Corbyn.

Hypocrisy at its best. ;-)

You can get away with insulting me from time to time but this time you go too far by telling lies about me. Please stop it now.
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RJD
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Quote:
 
None of the bourgeois Corbyn army – especially the ones who are waving their pitchforks most energetically on social media – know the first thing about the political ideology they are endorsing. Confront them with the basic terms of the Marxist analysis which is the foundation of Corbyn-McDonnell doctrine, and you meet with a blank stare. Dialectic – what’s that? Dictatorship of the proletariat? Sorry, no idea. Theory of surplus value? Nope. Well take it from an ex-Marxist: if you do not understand the theory of surplus value (or even recognise the term) then you know absolutely nothing about the Left-wing beliefs of the current leader of the Labour Party or of those by whom he is surrounded. (In case anybody asks you again, here it is in simple terms: the worker through his labour creates “surplus value” in the process of production, which is stolen from him by the forces of capital to amass private wealth. This justifies the seizure of that wealth by the organised working-class.)


LINK

As I pointed out the other day it does seem that those who support Corbyn-McDonnell have no idea what their ideology is and how dangerous that is to our welfare.

Quote:
 
There are the old lags from the openly Trotskyist Stop the War front group, the hard‑line Leninists and the militant trade unionists who never got over the Battle of Orgreave. They have been waiting for their moment for a generation at least. Temporarily slowed down by the collapse of the Soviet bloc in the early Nineties, they are now doing revisionist history in the great tradition and proclaiming that revolutionary socialism was never to blame for the KGB or the Stasi.


But it is the centralisation of power into the hands of ideologues that produces, without fail, politically controlled organisations that abuse all those who do not toe the party line. Watch, take note, the way these wannabe Trots clear out the nest of Blairites that still pollute the pure revolutionary socialist ideal. Check on that which they have yet dared to proclaim as objectives:

Ending austerity
Protecting workers' rights
Blocking welfare cuts
Scrapping tuition fees
Creating a National Education Service (like the NHS for healthcare)
Ensuring the NHS is completely publicly run
Renationalising railways
Abolishing Trident
Withdrawing from Nato
Introducing rent controls in unaffordable areas

All to be funded by BofE magic money printing presses and higher borrowing.

The claim by the Corbynites that their man is unfairly treated is pure baloney this proven friend to Hamas and terror groups is a danger to our society. Sensible people who have struggled to make their way in life need to rise up and object, say no to Corbyn and his camp followers.
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skwirked
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^ File under ULOB.
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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skwirked
Dec 6 2015, 09:16 AM
^ File under ULOB.
So you didn't read Corbyn's economic plan [1] then. RJD has summarised it well. Maybe it's really Corbyn's plan that you think is an ULOB

But be careful using offensive terms to describe posts in a barely disguised personal jibe
[1] as ghost written by Richard Murphy
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skwirked
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Well no that doesn't make sense, Corbyn's plan would be a LOB not the ULOB.

There is plenty to criticise in Corbyn's plan but RJD's post doesn't touch on any of it. It's all tabloid spew.
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Affa
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LOB and ULOB ?
Excuse my ignorance, no skits please.
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skwirked
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usual/load of bollox
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Affa
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Affa
Dec 6 2015, 12:03 PM
LOB and ULOB ?
Excuse my ignorance, no skits please.
:thumbsup:
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Steve K
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Affa
Dec 6 2015, 12:21 PM
Affa
Dec 6 2015, 12:03 PM
LOB and ULOB ?
Excuse my ignorance, no skits please.
:thumbsup:
I thought it was Utter Load of Bollocks :-[ maybe we should have an official UKDebate list of acronyms[1]
[1] Please no one take that joke seriously
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skwirked
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We already have a good list of acronyms on here.
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RJD
Dec 6 2015, 08:47 AM
Quote:
 
None of the bourgeois Corbyn army – especially the ones who are waving their pitchforks most energetically on social media – know the first thing about the political ideology they are endorsing. Confront them with the basic terms of the Marxist analysis which is the foundation of Corbyn-McDonnell doctrine, and you meet with a blank stare. Dialectic – what’s that? Dictatorship of the proletariat? Sorry, no idea. Theory of surplus value? Nope. Well take it from an ex-Marxist: if you do not understand the theory of surplus value (or even recognise the term) then you know absolutely nothing about the Left-wing beliefs of the current leader of the Labour Party or of those by whom he is surrounded. (In case anybody asks you again, here it is in simple terms: the worker through his labour creates “surplus value” in the process of production, which is stolen from him by the forces of capital to amass private wealth. This justifies the seizure of that wealth by the organised working-class.)


LINK

As I pointed out the other day it does seem that those who support Corbyn-McDonnell have no idea what their ideology is and how dangerous that is to our welfare.

Quote:
 
There are the old lags from the openly Trotskyist Stop the War front group, the hard‑line Leninists and the militant trade unionists who never got over the Battle of Orgreave. They have been waiting for their moment for a generation at least. Temporarily slowed down by the collapse of the Soviet bloc in the early Nineties, they are now doing revisionist history in the great tradition and proclaiming that revolutionary socialism was never to blame for the KGB or the Stasi.


But it is the centralisation of power into the hands of ideologues that produces, without fail, politically controlled organisations that abuse all those who do not toe the party line. Watch, take note, the way these wannabe Trots clear out the nest of Blairites that still pollute the pure revolutionary socialist ideal. Check on that which they have yet dared to proclaim as objectives:

Ending austerity
Protecting workers' rights
Blocking welfare cuts
Scrapping tuition fees
Creating a National Education Service (like the NHS for healthcare)
Ensuring the NHS is completely publicly run
Renationalising railways
Abolishing Trident
Withdrawing from Nato
Introducing rent controls in unaffordable areas


All to be funded by BofE magic money printing presses and higher borrowing.

The claim by the Corbynites that their man is unfairly treated is pure baloney this proven friend to Hamas and terror groups is a danger to our society. Sensible people who have struggled to make their way in life need to rise up and object, say no to Corbyn and his camp followers.



Looks pretty good.I can see why the Tories and their little helpers would feel a little queasy about it.
The concept of common good and collectivism has the same effect as them that garlic has on vampires
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Rich
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skwirked
Dec 6 2015, 11:31 AM
Well no that doesn't make sense, Corbyn's plan would be a LOB not the ULOB.

There is plenty to criticise in Corbyn's plan but RJD's post doesn't touch on any of it. It's all tabloid spew.
How is it tabloid spew when the very excellent reporting comes from a broadsheet?

Perhaps you should take the time to read and digest the report and the links that go with it, but I suppose that it would get mangled on a phone.
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skwirked
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Nice one Rich, except the torygraph is fast losing cred as many of us on here attest to. !wav!

As it happens the tele does crash my phone with sh1tty ads sometimes.
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Rich
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skwirked
Dec 6 2015, 01:35 PM
Nice one Rich, except the torygraph is fast losing cred as many of us on here attest to. !wav!

As it happens the tele does crash my phone with sh1tty ads sometimes.
Seems to me that you are on the backfoot on every thread here, sometimes it is best to just eat humble pie and admit that you were wrong in your assertions because "wriggling" and grasping at straws just makes your case worse, best to try and hang on to any tiny shred of credibility that you may have if only with your like minded posters who appear to have deserted you whilst watching you squirm.

It is a good thing that we have a new moderator who is willing to take people to task when required.
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