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| In Defence of Jeremy Corbyn [Freddy Gray - The Spectator]; Naive he may be, but he’s consistent – and at least he’s thinking about the future | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 1 2015, 06:18 PM (1,018 Views) | |
| skwirked | Dec 1 2015, 06:18 PM Post #1 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/jeremy-corbyn-is-more-sensible-about-syria-than-david-cameron/ Indeed. Well said, Fred. Just what is it we hope to achieve with this provenly stupid course of action? Please keep the yanks out of it...or prepare for a total calamity. I heard some of what Corb's been saying today on the radio, it sounded leaderish enough to me. He is quite clear that negotiation, cutting funding sources and supporting our allies is the order of the day here. Edited by skwirked, Dec 7 2015, 09:31 PM.
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| Tigger | Dec 1 2015, 08:38 PM Post #2 |
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Here is what Cameron is not mentioning in his attempts to look statesmanlike. Russia, Assad, Iran and the Kurds are part of the solution, unpalatable but given the strategic necessities a given. And Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States and to a lesser extent Turkey are the problems because nominally they are our friends. Russia will not miss a chance to get one over on the West, Iran is untrustworthy as are Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States and Turkey given it's strategic interests. And Dave thinks a good start to solving this is to drop some bombs. ![]() Corbyn looks positively sane by comparison! Edited by Tigger, Dec 1 2015, 08:39 PM.
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| skwirked | Dec 2 2015, 04:48 AM Post #3 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Corbyn wrote an excellent article in the Grauniad: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/01/cameron-failed-show-bombing-syria-isil-work-jihadist
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| Stonefish | Dec 2 2015, 07:16 AM Post #4 |
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The scribblings of a totally deluded man. You are NOT going to get the half dozen or so factions in Syria to agree ,let along hold to any kind of agreement.It's absurd.Not to mention some of those factions are extreme themselves. The ONLY viable solution is to get Assad back in control ,Russia knows it,the west seems to be waking up to the fact. Either that or go Corbyn style and see decades of misery in Syria with the real possibility ISIS could take control of the country. |
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| RJD | Dec 2 2015, 08:35 AM Post #5 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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As someone said; "Corbyn's enemies are all within his own Party", the Tories, SNP and UKIP are all grinning like Cheshire Cats at every gaff he makes, which appears to be a daily event. Those that think Corbyn is doing a good job must have very low expectations. I wonder how long sensible minded people in the Labour Party will put up with this obvious loser? Maybe, before Christmas he will shout "I am an aged clapped out Marxist-Lenneist MP get me out of here"? One can only hope for the sake of a viable opposition. Based on the story so far Osborne could become the longest serving PM from 2020 to 2035 and outdo Brown at the Treasury. |
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| Jonksy | Dec 2 2015, 12:11 PM Post #6 |
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Like or loath Corbyn at least he as the balls to stand up for his convictions unlike U-Turn dave.. |
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| skwirked | Dec 2 2015, 12:32 PM Post #7 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Yes you have a point re factions and you probably won't get the majority to agree, IMHO we need to get Shias onside there are many k's here and elsewhere willing to join the fight and a lot of them appear to be moderate..and yes we need Assad and Putin in firm control, lift all sanction s on both of them. |
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| AndyK | Dec 2 2015, 01:09 PM Post #8 |
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I suspect that if Corbyn was PM, he would also suddenly become pro-bombing, just as Blair did. Its funny that some people still think we are masters of our own destiny. |
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| C-too | Dec 2 2015, 01:59 PM Post #9 |
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Honourable Member
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The call is to bomb areas of Syria where Isis is. Not to bomb Syria per se. As far as I'm aware Corbyn's call for negotiations for peace is to negotiate with terrorists, not for negotiations with Assad. Meanwhile Syria / Assad are protected by Russia. The UK call for bombing Syrian forces was in the early stages when Syrian forces were shooting and bombing Syrian people who had risen up against Assad. |
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| jaguar | Dec 2 2015, 02:11 PM Post #10 |
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Regular Member
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Whenever a Labour policy has been reversed in recent years it's been widely seen by the "usuals" as 'a party willing to listen and make changes when necessary' but when Tories dare alter a policy it's an 'utter shambles, terrible govt!'. To compromise, or amend policy in the light of evidence or public opinion is good. The ability to be be persuaded on an issue is to be admired. Only dinosaurs see it as "backing down". |
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| RJD | Dec 2 2015, 04:23 PM Post #11 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Could anyone explain the process of identifying who one would negotiate with among the dozens of groups who are fighting against Assad? Which one or ones have the most legitimacy? If that is ISIL on what basis can there be any meaningful negotiation other than a declaration of surrender? Surely those that spout such heart felt thoughts first engage their brains? That said to what extent does the Assad Gov. have legitimacy these days? Is it considered to be greater or less than that of ISIL? Surely we are not expecting Cameron or Holland or Obama to come back from a peace conference with whoever it is that represents or leads ISIL waving a piece of paper headed "Peace in our time:"? Or are we? ISIL are just an evil bunch of scumbags hiding behind an Islamist banner and women's skirts, best they are exterminated like vermin. |
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| skwirked | Dec 2 2015, 04:25 PM Post #12 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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The idiotic replies that assume Corbyn wants to negotiate with Daesh, defy belief and frankly such posters deserve to be laughed at. Absolute idiocy prevails. |
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| Jonksy | Dec 2 2015, 06:54 PM Post #13 |
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At least labour explain why they have changed their policies...Have the tories explained why dave has broken his promise to cut net immigration by the tens of thousands? Has osborne explained why he is still chancer after staking his reputation on retaining the UK's triple A status? |
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| Rich | Dec 2 2015, 07:03 PM Post #14 |
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Is Corbyn unaware that Daesh do not WANT to talk, they are not interested in having a dialogue with the great satan and infidel. |
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| C-too | Dec 2 2015, 07:32 PM Post #15 |
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Are you claiming that Corbyn has not argued for a negotiated peace ? If you are looking for idiocy you need look no further than Corbyn. |
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| skwirked | Dec 2 2015, 07:42 PM Post #16 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Yes I am telling you as a fact - Corbyn ruled out negotiating with Daesh in September go look it up. That is what was suggested and it's ultra-reeky bullshite. I note a certain r-w tribalist plank asserted it as a proven fact. |
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| AndyK | Dec 2 2015, 08:04 PM Post #17 |
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The negotiations are to get Russia, Iran, Assad, Free syrian army and US/UK all on the same page. The situation is unsolvable while each fights the other, ISIS just walks into the gaps. |
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| C-too | Dec 2 2015, 08:28 PM Post #18 |
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I never named Daesh, and perhaps we are seeing a change of rhetoric from this weasel. I have heard Corbyn repeatedly say you must have a negotiated peace. With his refusal to back the attacks on Isis how do you think he is going to get his negotiated peace ? Pity you feel so desired to defend the two faced approach of this man, it really does you no credit. In fact all it does is to make you aggressive. |
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| C-too | Dec 2 2015, 08:32 PM Post #19 |
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Honourable Member
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As far as I'm aware such negotiations are already taking place. Meanwhile how does one stop the spread of Isis ? |
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| RJD | Dec 4 2015, 08:23 AM Post #20 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Exterminate every man Jack of them and their camp followers, then a concerted effort to rebuild the ME. But how and what objectives? |
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| skwirked | Dec 4 2015, 08:42 AM Post #21 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Your hypocrisy is so amusing. Attack Blair = you are a biased hateful mouth foamer Attack Corbyn = perfectly ok You call him a 'weasel' etc but if anyone so much as hints at Blair being corrupt, you instantly start the Alastair Campbell-esque sh1t flinging spin-on-it machine. Even the most right-wing columnists can be seen defending Corbyn for his honesty. You decry the tabloids and yet you join in with them in flinging utter BS at Corbyn. Hypocrisy at its best. Edited by skwirked, Dec 4 2015, 08:46 AM.
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| Stonefish | Dec 4 2015, 08:53 AM Post #22 |
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The attacks on Corbyn pale into insignificance compared to the attacks weve seen on Farage and UKIP for their honesty. |
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| Steve K | Dec 4 2015, 11:14 AM Post #23 |
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Once and future cynic
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The man who signed a manifesto and then dismissed it as rubbish is supposed to be honest? The man that's consistently used false figures to back his campaigns is honest? The man that asked/demanded his only MP fiddle HofC expenses is honest? The party that said their MEP Janice Atkinson calling a Thai born UKIP activist a "Ting Tong" wasn't in any way racist is honest? I could go on. |
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| RJD | Dec 4 2015, 11:46 AM Post #24 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Yep and what you describe is a meat and veg politician. |
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| Stonefish | Dec 4 2015, 11:47 AM Post #25 |
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See what I mean? |
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| skwirked | Dec 4 2015, 11:53 PM Post #26 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Now there's something we agree on. Do you feel that Forage's distortions were OK? Better or worse than Corbyn's? |
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| C-too | Dec 5 2015, 11:06 PM Post #27 |
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You can get away with insulting me from time to time but this time you go too far by telling lies about me. Please stop it now. |
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| RJD | Dec 6 2015, 08:47 AM Post #28 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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LINK As I pointed out the other day it does seem that those who support Corbyn-McDonnell have no idea what their ideology is and how dangerous that is to our welfare.
But it is the centralisation of power into the hands of ideologues that produces, without fail, politically controlled organisations that abuse all those who do not toe the party line. Watch, take note, the way these wannabe Trots clear out the nest of Blairites that still pollute the pure revolutionary socialist ideal. Check on that which they have yet dared to proclaim as objectives: Ending austerity Protecting workers' rights Blocking welfare cuts Scrapping tuition fees Creating a National Education Service (like the NHS for healthcare) Ensuring the NHS is completely publicly run Renationalising railways Abolishing Trident Withdrawing from Nato Introducing rent controls in unaffordable areas All to be funded by BofE magic money printing presses and higher borrowing. The claim by the Corbynites that their man is unfairly treated is pure baloney this proven friend to Hamas and terror groups is a danger to our society. Sensible people who have struggled to make their way in life need to rise up and object, say no to Corbyn and his camp followers. |
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| skwirked | Dec 6 2015, 09:16 AM Post #29 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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^ File under ULOB. |
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| Steve K | Dec 6 2015, 11:29 AM Post #30 |
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Once and future cynic
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So you didn't read Corbyn's economic plan [1] then. RJD has summarised it well. Maybe it's really Corbyn's plan that you think is an ULOB But be careful using offensive terms to describe posts in a barely disguised personal jibe [1] as ghost written by Richard Murphy |
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| skwirked | Dec 6 2015, 11:31 AM Post #31 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Well no that doesn't make sense, Corbyn's plan would be a LOB not the ULOB. There is plenty to criticise in Corbyn's plan but RJD's post doesn't touch on any of it. It's all tabloid spew. |
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| Affa | Dec 6 2015, 12:03 PM Post #32 |
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LOB and ULOB ? Excuse my ignorance, no skits please. |
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| skwirked | Dec 6 2015, 12:14 PM Post #33 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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usual/load of bollox |
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| Affa | Dec 6 2015, 12:21 PM Post #34 |
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Senior Member
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| Steve K | Dec 6 2015, 12:28 PM Post #35 |
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Once and future cynic
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I thought it was Utter Load of Bollocks maybe we should have an official UKDebate list of acronyms[1][1] Please no one take that joke seriously |
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| skwirked | Dec 6 2015, 12:30 PM Post #36 |
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We already have a good list of acronyms on here. |
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| Deleted User | Dec 6 2015, 12:52 PM Post #37 |
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Looks pretty good.I can see why the Tories and their little helpers would feel a little queasy about it. The concept of common good and collectivism has the same effect as them that garlic has on vampires |
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| Rich | Dec 6 2015, 01:23 PM Post #38 |
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How is it tabloid spew when the very excellent reporting comes from a broadsheet? Perhaps you should take the time to read and digest the report and the links that go with it, but I suppose that it would get mangled on a phone. |
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| skwirked | Dec 6 2015, 01:35 PM Post #39 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Nice one Rich, except the torygraph is fast losing cred as many of us on here attest to. As it happens the tele does crash my phone with sh1tty ads sometimes. |
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| Rich | Dec 6 2015, 01:44 PM Post #40 |
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Seems to me that you are on the backfoot on every thread here, sometimes it is best to just eat humble pie and admit that you were wrong in your assertions because "wriggling" and grasping at straws just makes your case worse, best to try and hang on to any tiny shred of credibility that you may have if only with your like minded posters who appear to have deserted you whilst watching you squirm. It is a good thing that we have a new moderator who is willing to take people to task when required. |
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maybe we should have an official UKDebate list of acronyms

8:28 AM Jul 11