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| In Defence of Jeremy Corbyn [Freddy Gray - The Spectator]; Naive he may be, but he’s consistent – and at least he’s thinking about the future | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 1 2015, 06:18 PM (1,017 Views) | |
| skwirked | Dec 1 2015, 06:18 PM Post #1 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/jeremy-corbyn-is-more-sensible-about-syria-than-david-cameron/ Indeed. Well said, Fred. Just what is it we hope to achieve with this provenly stupid course of action? Please keep the yanks out of it...or prepare for a total calamity. I heard some of what Corb's been saying today on the radio, it sounded leaderish enough to me. He is quite clear that negotiation, cutting funding sources and supporting our allies is the order of the day here. Edited by skwirked, Dec 7 2015, 09:31 PM.
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| Rich | Dec 7 2015, 01:20 AM Post #81 |
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Slightly off topic, but in Venezuela, after 17 years of socialist rule, the country finds itself with a joke of an economy and a fractured infrastructure, political commentators predict a huge swing to the hard right in the upcoming elections, this is what happens when political parties do not maintain a centre ground stance and any incoming administration has to make hard but realistic decisions in order to get the country back on course. (imo) PS, meanwhile, in France, Marine le pen's party has won 6 out of 8 regional elections, make of that what you will. Edited by Rich, Dec 7 2015, 01:22 AM.
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| skwirked | Dec 7 2015, 01:30 AM Post #82 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Well VE did very well inder Chavez and has rapidly gone downhill since his departure. As for France..well it's sad but not unexpected with all the sh1t that's gone down there. Not much of a fan of Chavismo (no it's not a cheap perfume launched by Becks). Best Corbyn moderates his stance a bit, creates a very credible evidenced plan and continues to do his best in all other areas. |
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| Rich | Dec 7 2015, 01:34 AM Post #83 |
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So basically, you are admitting on an open forum that in your opinion, Corbyn has not yet come up with any credible policy to date....is that the case? |
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| skwirked | Dec 7 2015, 01:36 AM Post #84 |
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Sure if you want to wilfully misread my post. Think it says plan not policy though. You know, joined-up thinking. An alien concept to the Tories. |
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| Rich | Dec 7 2015, 02:12 AM Post #85 |
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Okay, so Mr Corbyn has a plan, what next, bearing in mind that you sit on the fence and favour no party, at least, that is what you have claimed. |
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| skwirked | Dec 7 2015, 02:21 AM Post #86 |
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..Carry out his duties as leader of the opposition..? I favour Corbyn but don't like Labour. If he gets it together I might vote Lab for the first time in my life. |
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| C-too | Dec 7 2015, 08:47 AM Post #87 |
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Honourable Member
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Not looking for the source, just waiting for you to knock down my original list. Your ducking, diving and switching (as usual) says is all. |
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| skwirked | Dec 7 2015, 08:50 AM Post #88 |
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Do you not understand what I have posted? |
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| C-too | Dec 7 2015, 08:57 AM Post #89 |
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Honourable Member
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I'm sure you do understand my posts, you're just to devious to acknowledge them. I totally understand your usual deviation come attempted 'cancelling out' technique. It is IMO a rather cowardly hiding place. |
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| skwirked | Dec 7 2015, 09:02 AM Post #90 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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I am trying to show you the error in your unfounded assertions, the devious accusation is funny though. If you back up your original assertions with evidence (I did mine) then I will show you how they are disingenuous. The onus is on you to prove what you say, that's how it works on here. |
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| Stonefish | Dec 7 2015, 09:08 AM Post #91 |
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Yep, that sums him up ,wouldn't bother if I was you,a waste of valuable time and effort. Edited by Stonefish, Dec 7 2015, 10:10 AM.
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| skwirked | Dec 7 2015, 09:10 AM Post #92 |
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This coming from the knuckle-dragger who links to wiki as a source and who clearly knows nothing about everything. What a worthwhile opinion.
Edited by skwirked, Dec 7 2015, 09:20 AM.
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| RJD | Dec 7 2015, 09:42 AM Post #93 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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State ownership of the means of production was an out and out disaster which brought those industries to the edge of collapse in the UK. It brought Russia and it's Ost Bloc economies also to the point of collapse and claiming that they were suffering from the wrong Socialism is pure BS. Socialism does not work to the benefit of Joe Public it impoverishes him. As for the greedy fearing the needy well that is just another empty sound bite. Nobody fears them, but one wonders what to do with them as their numbers grow at a rate greater than they can be absorbed. Of course Socialism can give them a load of useless none jobs, but then nobody will want to buy our expensive goods and services and the UK must export it has no choice unless it has a death wish. Corbyne's magic money machines will not get around the dilemma they just make a difficult situation a lot worse. Corbyn and his idiotic politics needs to be loudly condemned by all sensible people, each and every day, until the Corbynites see sense, if that is at all possible. |
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| skwirked | Dec 7 2015, 10:03 AM Post #94 |
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Seeing as you don't actually understand what socialism entails - it is a broad camp - we can take your posts with a massive handful of salt. Let me explain this to you. Democratic socialism; mixed economies with democratic socialist welfare capitalism work quite well. Look to Scandinavia. Got it? Sunk in yet? |
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| C-too | Dec 7 2015, 05:28 PM Post #95 |
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[1][2] [1] I did not make any assertions [2] and I have already warned you once about telling lies about me. Try and be man enough to address my post or be recognised as a deceiver when it comes to political debate. You could start by reading the improvements made to the NHS noted in the Wanless report of 2007. As previously mentioned. Do you deny the introduction of the minimum wage ? You clearly do not recognise just how much your political bias is distorting your mouth. |
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| C-too | Dec 7 2015, 05:31 PM Post #96 |
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So you condone squirming and deviation, doesn't say much about yourself does it. |
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| Stonefish | Dec 7 2015, 08:26 PM Post #97 |
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Er no,i just condemned it ,bringing in to question your ability to read. Edited by Stonefish, Dec 7 2015, 08:26 PM.
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| Tigger | Dec 7 2015, 08:59 PM Post #98 |
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Personally I'd rather have the Tories than New Labour's Tory-Lite. I find both dishonest and distasteful. There is a dispossessed generation that is up and coming that will reject outright the neo liberalism of the last thirty years for the very simple reason it does not work for them, Corbyn is the symptom of this mindset if not quite the complete cure for the past ills. |
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| skwirked | Dec 7 2015, 09:01 PM Post #99 |
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..I wouldn't go that far..NL were definitely better than the current c u next tuesdays, but I agree with all the rest. |
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| Deleted User | Dec 7 2015, 09:03 PM Post #100 |
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Exactly, the Corbyn narrative is far more important than Corbyn. The old codgers with their sense of self entitlement keep the neo liberal narrative alive. |
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| Tigger | Dec 7 2015, 09:12 PM Post #101 |
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Time to administer your daily kick in of unpleasant facts! ![]() With the British version of free market capitalism we have the exact polar opposite of what you often call Marxism, this mongrel Brit capitalism states that if it isn't bolted down sell it off, preferably to your mates but if they don't have the money sell it to anyone with the money! With this stunted and retarded version of capitalism we arrive at a paradox, many former nationalised industries after being sliced and diced are now in the ownership of foreign governments and make money for their respective states! File under, stick your head in the oven but be aware the profits go abroad! |
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| C-too | Dec 8 2015, 08:12 AM Post #102 |
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Honourable Member
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Apologies, I obviously jumped to the wrong conclusion. |
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| RJD | Dec 8 2015, 08:23 AM Post #103 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Absolute tripe, there is nothing of value in the Corbynite mantra, it is just silly idiotic politics for silly people. You might attach yourself to his sound-bites but best find evidence of where his economic policies have been a success. True not many have attempted such since the USSR collapsed but take a good look at South America, at Chavez and his failed experiments in socialism. There is no evidence in the history of Socialism that it works to the benefit of the people, in fact the opposite is true, however, the evidence that market cCapitalism has lifted hundreds of millions out of agrarian poverty is as plain as the nose on anyone's face. If you think evidence exists then put it up for scrutiny. |
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| C-too | Dec 8 2015, 08:25 AM Post #104 |
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What you have done is to indulge in insinuation and used insinuation in order to deviate from the points in my post. You have wilfully ignored two easily provable facts as in the improvements within the NHS and the introduction of the minimum wage. What the Tories did or did not do is completely irrelevant to the point being made in my original post. You have the ability to deceive yourself and then expect others to be deceived by you. |
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| skwirked | Dec 8 2015, 11:07 AM Post #105 |
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Attlee's Britain? Social Democratic nations in Scandinavia and of course Iceland in particular. Tory Britain is an abject failure. |
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| Stonefish | Dec 8 2015, 11:22 AM Post #106 |
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Yeah and Labour Britain was a raging success I suppose ?
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| skwirked | Dec 8 2015, 11:24 AM Post #107 |
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Yep Attlee's Britain was a huge success. I suppose UKIP could do one better could they? !They might mistake Westminster cathedral for a mosque and have it torn down. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/27/-sp-ukip-mistakes-westminster-cathedral-for-mosque You couldn't make it up.
Edited by skwirked, Dec 8 2015, 11:27 AM.
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| RJD | Dec 8 2015, 02:28 PM Post #108 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Interesting that those claiming that Tory Britain is an abject failure never substantiate their claim or indicate what alternative better strategies are available. Why is this? |
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| Deleted User | Dec 8 2015, 04:14 PM Post #109 |
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The only mantra seems to coming from you. The silly idiots are the Tory Turkeys enthusiasm for Bernard Matthew politics. |
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| skwirked | Dec 8 2015, 04:16 PM Post #110 |
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Of course they do, you just don't listen to a word of it because you've swallowed too much propaganda at the Old Blue Nag, perhaps over your lifetime. You will never admit you're wrong so why listen to you? Why not actually substantiate your claim that Tory Britain is a success? I will destroy it every single time (if it's not shallow crap that is). |
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| Deleted User | Dec 8 2015, 04:38 PM Post #111 |
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TBH one tires of them posting the same old bilge. Chavez was a democratic despot not a leader of a socialist movement. His power lay in his ability to thumb his nose at the US who had an appalling record in South and Central America for brutally putting down movements ( socialist or otherwise) that attempted to deny US corporation free access to their resources . |
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| Deleted User | Dec 8 2015, 04:47 PM Post #112 |
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Nope. RJD compared the Corbyn narrative with the USSR ,South America and Chavez in the post that I replied to. In defence of Corbyn I belatedly pointed out his(RJD) risible ignorance. |
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| skwirked | Dec 8 2015, 04:50 PM Post #113 |
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Ah so he did, funny that, my gaze subconsciously averted as the stream of bile was scrolled through. |
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| RJD | Dec 8 2015, 06:38 PM Post #114 |
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Not seen any substance what so ever just opinions. Corbyn has many many times stated what he would like to do and this includes; nationalisation of railways and utilities increased public spending through increased borrowing and printing of money by BofE leave the rest for another day. Now I will concede that the Russian Socialists were not so stupid as to print shed-loads of money, but they too had a very fond attachment to State controls, in their case, everything, in Corbyns only those I am prepared to say at the moment. There is no doubt where Corbyn stands on the political spectrum, he is a confirmed Socialist. Dress him up as you wish but there is no white-washing over his dogmatic position as he has not wavered for more than 30 years. He compounds his unacceptable, to me and every other sane person, economic policies by being a devout supporter of the idea that all evils thar visit this World were made in the US of A and/or their proxies. |
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| Deleted User | Dec 8 2015, 06:54 PM Post #115 |
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TBH if you dont realise the misery that the US and its cohorts have inflicted on the world then you should get out more...maybe to the library. The monetary policy of the Tories is cynical, immoral and failing. The problem with your proffered perception of Corbyn is that it entails hyperbole with speculation and out right lies. QE is a financial strategy and nationalisation of the Railways and utilities is a stated goal not an imminent threat. The last financial crisis was not caused by nationalisation or central banks printing money to use for national infrastructure.It was caused by reckless financial institution practices and was ( and is ) being paid for by the taxpayers. Compared with your heroes Corbyn is a financial and political sage. |
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| Deleted User | Dec 8 2015, 06:56 PM Post #116 |
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I think we have ..while others grow old and deny reality. |
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| Tigger | Dec 8 2015, 09:59 PM Post #117 |
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![]() Because you never read it and revert to cliches! |
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| RJD | Dec 9 2015, 08:37 AM Post #118 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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But these are just your opinions and you give not even a hint at how you arrived at such. For a Chat-Room that may suffice, but here in a Debating Forum one expects substance. |
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| RJD | Dec 9 2015, 08:39 AM Post #119 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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I think you have not, well not here on this forum or this thread. You only offer unsubstantiated opinion and that does not do the trick. Your partners in crime only offer their juvenile insults which for me are just water off the preverbal, I treat them with the contempt they deserve and label the Posters accordingly. |
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| skwirked | Dec 9 2015, 09:57 AM Post #120 |
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Comprehensive, irrefutable facts: Public Debt The Res Foundation & IFS's analysis of how the budget hits the poorest post-autumn statement The predicted crash Total folding over the EU Failure to actually meet deficit targets multi times Loss of AAA rating Unsustainable economy built on debt and inflated house and asset prices Failure to implement any kind of real austerity due to incompetence in admin Unprecedented scandals & cynicism Economic growth stalling; not making up for slowest recovery in history and wages that fell for 4 years in a row in RT, unprecedented of late Yes the economy started improving under Brown, incompetent tosser though he was, yes Labour's 4yr deficit halving plan would've brought the deficit down faster than the Tories, inequality started falling just as Brown left office. The Tories took a vastly improving economy and trashed it with their Plan A which failed, so they tried to implement Plan B which was only slightly less of a failure. |
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8:28 AM Jul 11