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| Now that is praise. | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 3 2015, 07:25 AM (325 Views) | |
| RJD | Dec 3 2015, 07:25 AM Post #1 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Torygraph As the man said it appears too be a "where were you when Benn gave that speech"? Maybe Benn is of the stuff to rebuild Labour? |
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| skwirked | Dec 3 2015, 08:36 AM Post #2 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yuMZ_fm0mPc&ebc=ANyPxKpTjoljSUNfNPauahSrBqBdkRVEGb2wwQgUggwPPkJPujO4oj-lcE1n9zWYgOiHMF2TjVkg The speech. Dissecting it: - Moralistic and anecdotal arguments re people being killed etc - The substance consisted of his saying that Daesh were at the gates of Baghdad but got pushed back by airstrikes, also that a senior Kurdish minister said airstrikes helped push back Daesh by IIRC 600 miles. 1. An SNP minister correctly pointed out that the situation is different now; Daesh have fractured into tiny groups hiding among densely packed civilian areas, airstrikes cannot thus penetrate this. 1A. The Kurdish are desperate, can their word be relied on? 2. Ground has also been won by Daesh, he neglected to mention this. 3. What about Daesh ops in places other than Syria? It is helping to radicalize other who's sources of funding etc aren't even being touched. 4. No idea how he's going to unite these magical 70k fighters. It is going to be calamity. 5. No details about exactly what should be negotiated upon in Vienna. And this is what passes for a great debate and a great speech? Edited by skwirked, Dec 3 2015, 08:38 AM.
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| Mr Pat | Dec 3 2015, 08:42 AM Post #3 |
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Regular Member
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It was a brilliant speech. |
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| papasmurf | Dec 3 2015, 09:02 AM Post #4 |
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Senior Member
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That is going to be like herding cats. Plus they will all round on each other at some stage in the future. |
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| AndyK | Dec 3 2015, 10:38 AM Post #5 |
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Senior Member
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It was a very good speech, count me impressed. |
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| Affa | Dec 3 2015, 12:25 PM Post #6 |
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Senior Member
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It did not convince me of either the necessity of British air strikes nor the effectiveness of such ..... it did convince me of his own political credentials. He represented himself and not those of his constituency. |
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| Rich | Dec 3 2015, 01:10 PM Post #7 |
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Senior Member
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He comes across as a man of principle in this particular respect, just as Mr Corbyn has been described and rightly so too but Mr Benn claimed that Mr Corbyns views were "misguided".....once again, opinions of which there are thousands if not millions. At the end of the day, despite your comments and according to a lot of those MP's who stood up and spoke yesterday, many MP's WERE contacted by their constituents and their views were taken on board so I would argue that those that voted to extend aerial bombing into Syria were representative of the majority of the people (with an opinion one way or another) of the UK. Edited by Rich, Dec 3 2015, 01:11 PM.
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| skwirked | Dec 3 2015, 01:24 PM Post #8 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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We have no idea how much the MPs took on board when forming their opinions. What's more their track record on such is less than impressive. And finally: the hard evidence for conducting this campaign and its tangible benefits was missing from this debate. |
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| Alberich | Dec 3 2015, 04:39 PM Post #9 |
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Alberich
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It was a bid for the party leadership of a more moderate Labour party, when they dump poor old Jezza...which they will! And as such, it was a tour de force; not that I agree with his argument. Such a fine stiletto! I bet Corbyn didn't even feel it as it entered his back. |
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| papasmurf | Dec 3 2015, 04:53 PM Post #10 |
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Senior Member
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I have one big problem with Mr Benn's speech, back on November the 15th he stated the complete opposite opinion:- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hilary-benn-shadow-foreign-secretary-says-labour-wont-back-air-strikes-on-syria-a6734651.html . Hilary Benn: Shadow Foreign Secretary says Labour won't back air strikes on Syria The shadow Foreign Secretary says that, after Paris, the emphasis must be on peace talks and helping refugees Tom McTague Political Editor Sunday 15 November 2015 Labour’s opposition to any British involvement in military action against Islamic State (Isis) in Syria has intensified, despite the massacre in Paris. Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn said the co-ordinated attacks on the French capital, which left at least 127 dead, were an “act of war” – but all but ruled out backing UK air strikes in response. He said that the idea of British action against Isis in Syria should be put to one side until the country’s civil war had been brought to an end. Mr Benn, speaking exclusively to The Independent on Sunday, said that the Government should drop plans for a new House of Commons vote authorising military attacks in Syria to concentrate on peace talks and providing humanitarian support for refugees. His intervention dramatically undermines David Cameron’s hopes of joining the United States-led action against Isis in its Syrian heartland. The Prime Minister, who insisted the French fight against IS was also Britain’s, has maintained he will not ask MPs to authorise RAF bombing raids in Syria until a “political consensus” has been reached. But Mr Benn said the “terrible events in Paris” meant it was “even more important that we bring the Syrian civil war to an end” before considering air strikes on Isis. He outlined his thinking: “Why? Because the vacuum in which Isil/Daesh [Islamic State] in Syria thrives is a consequence of that civil war. “Therefore I hope that the talks that are taking place really will redouble their efforts to say, look we’ve got a find a way of bringing this to a conclusion – we’ve got to bring this to an end. “Because then, people can then really focus their efforts on the threat from Isil/Daesh and the circumstances in Syria will have changed.” Mr Benn, who supports military intervention to protect civilians, said he did not think the Government was planning to come forward with a proposal to extend air strikes from Iraq into Syria. But asked if he thought they should, Mr Benn said: “No.” He added: “They have to come up with an overall plan, which they have not done. I think the focus for now is finding a peaceful solution to the civil war.” The shadow Foreign Secretary added: “The most useful contribution we can make is to support as a nation the peace talks that have started. That is the single most important thing we can do.” Mr Benn’s intervention came in a wide-ranging interview in which he said he was “certain” that Jeremy Corbyn could become Prime Minister in 2020, and revealed that he first met the Labour leader as a youngster when he was doing his homework while his dad held meetings with political supporters. However, it is Mr Benn’s remarks against Syrian intervention which are likely to cause the most concern in Downing Street. The Prime Minister has insisted that it does not make sense to bomb Isis positions in Iraq – where Britain and other powers have permission to intervene – but not in neighbouring Syria. Ministers, led by the Defence Secretary Michael Fallon, have warned that the jihadi terror group is planning attacks against Britain as well as France from its stronghold in northern Syria – and that the nominal border with Iraq is irrelevant because it is not recognised by the terrorists. However, it is unclear whether there is a majority in the Commons to extend British military action into Syria, with up to 30 Tory MPs understood to have reservations. While a sizeable number of Labour MPs support intervention, the vast majority are unlikely to defy the party leadership to support Mr Cameron. MPs’ scepticism towards military action hardened after the Tory-led Foreign Affairs Select Committee called on the government to rule out the prospect until a strategy had been developed to defeat IS. Mr Benn said Russia’s intervention into the conflict to prop up President Bashar al-Assad had complicated matters even further, and called for a negotiated peace. He said: “The government has come to realise the Russian military intervention has changed the position on the ground, and I think that has given them pause for thought.” |
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| AndyK | Dec 3 2015, 11:00 PM Post #11 |
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Seriously though, who would call their son "Hilary". |
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| Tigger | Dec 3 2015, 11:01 PM Post #12 |
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He's a Socialist, scared yet?
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| Rich | Dec 3 2015, 11:37 PM Post #13 |
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The only other one I know of starred in "On her majesty's secret service" (George Lazenby) and though only fiction, he only lasted 5 minutes. Mind you, thinking about it, who would name their son Marion? and yet he turned out to be probably the biggest Hollywood star ever and went by the name of "duke" to his friends, I think Johnny Cash may have had a hand in naming baby boys.
Edited by Rich, Dec 3 2015, 11:41 PM.
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| Steve K | Dec 4 2015, 02:00 AM Post #14 |
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Once and future cynic
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Worth reading the speech transcript before being so judgementalAlso worth reading the sentence you did not include from that Nov 15 article: "Mr Benn said Labour would only consider backing air strikes in Syria if Mr Cameron had the support of the United Nations". Which as he remarked in his commons speech is exactly what had happened in the time since. Despite that excellent speech, I don't see Benn as a future leader but he might just be a king maker |
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| RJD | Dec 4 2015, 08:04 AM Post #15 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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The scion of the Wedgwood family. I think not that unusual in the Victorian era. |
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| RJD | Dec 4 2015, 08:05 AM Post #16 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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King Maker. Surely that requires there is a ready Prince? I see none and that is Labour's problem. |
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| Steve K | Dec 4 2015, 11:07 AM Post #17 |
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Once and future cynic
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Chukka is still there |
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| Rich | Dec 4 2015, 11:11 AM Post #18 |
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I doubt very much if he would be a popular choice during the present climate. |
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| skwirked | Dec 4 2015, 11:13 AM Post #19 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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But he's a 'bloody ikap' |
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| Rich | Dec 4 2015, 11:19 AM Post #20 |
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Senior Member
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At the risk of sounding ignorant, what exactly does "IKAP" mean? |
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| RJD | Dec 4 2015, 11:40 AM Post #21 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Chukka Who? |
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| RJD | Dec 4 2015, 11:43 AM Post #22 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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"A non-racist way of calling a coloured person a paki backwords, without other people taking it offensive". In short a snide way of producing a racial slur. That said I did not know he had any Asian blood whoever he is? |
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| skwirked | Dec 4 2015, 11:47 AM Post #23 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Ah yes, so a 'muzzie n*****' instead then. Feel free to miss the ironic intention of this post too CJD. |
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| Steve K | Dec 4 2015, 12:11 PM Post #24 |
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Once and future cynic
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British born, British mother. No Asian genetic background at allRJD I suggest you google Chuka Umunna, especially any video of him eg on Question Time. |
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| skwirked | Dec 4 2015, 12:15 PM Post #25 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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I am not JCB thank god. That said my post was intended to be humorous, you know how so many people call asians 'black' etc, but in truth I thought Mr Ummuna was north african. |
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| Rich | Dec 4 2015, 12:19 PM Post #26 |
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I think your humour is at best rather strange. |
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| skwirked | Dec 4 2015, 12:23 PM Post #27 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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Well it's not in the vain of Roy Chubby Brown so that hardly surprises me. Or is it.
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| Steve K | Dec 4 2015, 12:26 PM Post #28 |
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Once and future cynic
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It wasn't a post you're going to be proud of tomorrow, or should be now |
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| skwirked | Dec 4 2015, 12:32 PM Post #29 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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It wasn't a great post but why should I particularly regret having made it? I do hope you aren't insinuating repercussions of some sort for what is an un-PC ironic joke post. |
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| Steve K | Dec 4 2015, 12:37 PM Post #30 |
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Once and future cynic
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No, I said 'not proud' not 'regret'. 'ikap' is so obscure I'd guess it's likely to be let go here unless it becomes a serious racial pejorative. |
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| jaguar | Dec 4 2015, 12:57 PM Post #31 |
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Are the Tories really worried about Corbyn. No not as a threat to them, but that he might be gone well before the General Election. Could anyone have forseen how disastrous his first couple of months in charge would be. Although it is manna from HEAVEN for the Tory party, and UKIP, there is now a real worry that he is going to be ousted early. The Tories have to be very careful now, especially after that speech by Benn, a Labour leader in the making. On the one hand criticise the Labour Party for its divisions and obvious weaknesses in both policy and decision-making, but also to maybe lay off Corbyn personally. The Tories have to be very careful not to impugn him too severely lest his party got rid of him. It will be very interesting to see what else can the Tories do, or merely rely upon, in order to maximise Corbyn's chances of staying in position for another 4 years or so? Edited by jaguar, Dec 4 2015, 12:58 PM.
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| RJD | Dec 4 2015, 02:03 PM Post #32 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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I know who he is, just teasing as he is well out of the lime light at the moment. I wish him well and dislike the racial and sexual slurs that he has had to endure. I was saddened when he stood back as I thought him a future man for Labour. I do not think he is your Prince. |
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| RJD | Dec 4 2015, 02:04 PM Post #33 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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I disliked it as it brought a nasty taste to the mouth and a stench in the air. Not the sort of thing I like to read on this forum. |
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| marybrown | Dec 4 2015, 02:06 PM Post #34 |
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Well apparently the man had something to hide..apart from that? I don't think racism or homophobia came into it...
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| RJD | Dec 4 2015, 02:07 PM Post #35 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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What is he hiding Mary? He hasn't got one of those reds under his bed has he? Has he illegal immigrants living in his back shed? |
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| skwirked | Dec 4 2015, 02:08 PM Post #36 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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I see so using the pejorative 'coalface' is fine then. I am sure you were called far worse during the old days. |
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| RJD | Dec 4 2015, 02:12 PM Post #37 |
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Prudence and Thrift
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Appallingly bad logic. I made no such implication or reference. Best thing you could do is apologise to readers and retract that reference. |
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| marybrown | Dec 4 2015, 02:13 PM Post #38 |
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No idea..he was a forceful young Labourite..who suddenly pulled out due to ''stress'' and wanting to be with his family.. Why did he pull back and obliterate himself from the running?? It doesn't make sense.. |
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| skwirked | Dec 4 2015, 02:15 PM Post #39 |
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On Enforced Vacation
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If you retract all the racial slurs you've written into your posts I will do so gladly, until then..
Edited by skwirked, Dec 4 2015, 02:16 PM.
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| marybrown | Dec 4 2015, 02:54 PM Post #40 |
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Now now boys..play nicely.. |
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