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Now that dave has got his way on bombing Syria...; What about extremists let into the UK or go to Syria?
Topic Started: Dec 3 2015, 03:17 PM (501 Views)
Jonksy
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What is he going to do about the ISIS and all the other muslim extremists he has let into the UK or the nut jobs who go over to fight for ISIS..?
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papasmurf
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Well I know what I would do but I can't see Cameron giving the "Spook" dirty trick department a free hand to do it.

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skwirked
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papasmurf
Dec 3 2015, 03:27 PM
Well I know what I would do but I can't see Cameron giving the "Spook" dirty trick department a free hand to do it.

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No doubt you'd prove that you are in no way a "compassionless bastard".

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papasmurf
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skwirked
Dec 3 2015, 03:33 PM
No doubt you'd prove that you are in no way a "compassionless bastard".

There is nothing compassionless about vermin clearance as a self defence measure. Cameron is tasked with the defence of the realm, he is not fulfilling that duty.
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skwirked
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papasmurf
Dec 3 2015, 03:37 PM
skwirked
Dec 3 2015, 03:33 PM
No doubt you'd prove that you are in no way a "compassionless bastard".

There is nothing compassionless about vermin clearance as a self defence measure. Cameron is tasked with the defence of the realm, he is not fulfilling that duty.
Well you implied that you were ok with nuking Syria with women and children still in it as they might be terrorists.

You almost make Dave sound sane.
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Jonksy
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skwirked
Dec 3 2015, 03:33 PM
papasmurf
Dec 3 2015, 03:27 PM
Well I know what I would do but I can't see Cameron giving the "Spook" dirty trick department a free hand to do it.

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No doubt you'd prove that you are in no way a "compassionless bastard".

Did those bastards show any compassion in Paris?
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Rich
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papasmurf
Dec 3 2015, 03:37 PM
skwirked
Dec 3 2015, 03:33 PM
No doubt you'd prove that you are in no way a "compassionless bastard".

There is nothing compassionless about vermin clearance as a self defence measure. Cameron is tasked with the defence of the realm, he is not fulfilling that duty.
But he is doing his level best despite the protestations of the do gooders....or if you like in "Dave's" own words, terrorist sympathisers, perhaps now people can see why he did not apologise for his choice of words.
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Jonksy
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papasmurf
Dec 3 2015, 03:27 PM
Well I know what I would do but I can't see Cameron giving the "Spook" dirty trick department a free hand to do it.

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You are too benevolent...better to use a barrat light fifty loaded with Raufoss rounds..
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papasmurf
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skwirked
Dec 3 2015, 03:40 PM
Well you implied that you were ok with nuking Syria
No I didn't. I suggest you actually read what I wrote.
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papasmurf
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Jonksy
Dec 3 2015, 03:43 PM
You are too benevolent...better to use a barrat light fifty loaded with Raufoss rounds..
Too expensive, and no good in an urban environment.
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Jonksy
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papasmurf
Dec 3 2015, 03:59 PM
Jonksy
Dec 3 2015, 03:43 PM
You are too benevolent...better to use a barrat light fifty loaded with Raufoss rounds..
Too expensive, and no good in an urban environment.
It is best in an urban environment....No walls to thick..
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ACH1967
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Jonksy
Dec 3 2015, 03:40 PM
skwirked
Dec 3 2015, 03:33 PM
papasmurf
Dec 3 2015, 03:27 PM
Well I know what I would do but I can't see Cameron giving the "Spook" dirty trick department a free hand to do it.

Posted Image
No doubt you'd prove that you are in no way a "compassionless bastard".

Did those bastards show any compassion in Paris?
Although somewhat twee that is a depressingly large amount of truth in the phrase "two wrongs do not make a right"
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skwirked
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papasmurf
Dec 3 2015, 03:57 PM
skwirked
Dec 3 2015, 03:40 PM
Well you implied that you were ok with nuking Syria
No I didn't. I suggest you actually read what I wrote.
Ok I will take your word for that, it looked like you were implying such in reply to Affa's tongue-in-cheek comment.

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Alberich
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Given that Isil (or whatever they are called these days) is the most reactionary bunch of insane nut-jobs on the face of the earth, I am still trying to work out how bombing them is going to make us MORE safe. 'Cos that's what Dave has told us. Don't you agree that it might just have the opposite effect?
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Jonksy
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Alberich
Dec 3 2015, 04:36 PM
Given that Isil (or whatever they are called these days) is the most reactionary bunch of insane nut-jobs on the face of the earth, I am still trying to work out how bombing them is going to make us MORE safe. 'Cos that's what Dave has told us. Don't you agree that it might just have the opposite effect?
I think you are right...I woder what call me dave will do then when we have a Paris in London or any other of our cities or large towns?
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papasmurf
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Alberich
Dec 3 2015, 04:36 PM
Given that Isil (or whatever they are called these days) is the most reactionary bunch of insane nut-jobs on the face of the earth, I am still trying to work out how bombing them is going to make us MORE safe. 'Cos that's what Dave has told us. Don't you agree that it might just have the opposite effect?
With IS/ISIL/ISIS/Daesh self financing terror cells already in Europe including Britain as far as I can see if Syria were to be nuked to a radioactive wasteland it would not make Britain safe.
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Rich
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Jonksy
Dec 3 2015, 04:39 PM
Alberich
Dec 3 2015, 04:36 PM
Given that Isil (or whatever they are called these days) is the most reactionary bunch of insane nut-jobs on the face of the earth, I am still trying to work out how bombing them is going to make us MORE safe. 'Cos that's what Dave has told us. Don't you agree that it might just have the opposite effect?
I think you are right...I woder what call me dave will do then when we have a Paris in London or any other of our cities or large towns?
Let us not forget that the security services have already foiled 7 terrorist attacks on the UK so far this year and that is without bombing Syria, so in answer to your post it will not place us in any more danger than we are already in and hopefully with strategic targetting of bombs we can help to degrade the means to fund Daesh's ability to project their terror abroad.

Leastways, that is how I read the words that come from politicians and military personnel.
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skwirked
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Jonksy
Dec 3 2015, 04:39 PM
Alberich
Dec 3 2015, 04:36 PM
Given that Isil (or whatever they are called these days) is the most reactionary bunch of insane nut-jobs on the face of the earth, I am still trying to work out how bombing them is going to make us MORE safe. 'Cos that's what Dave has told us. Don't you agree that it might just have the opposite effect?
I think you are right...I woder what call me dave will do then when we have a Paris in London or any other of our cities or large towns?
Indeed.

And it's so so much harder to deal with homegrown radicals isn't it. The govt want easy solutions that are politically expedient, tackling things head on and making positive changes to our country is an alien concept to these tw@s.
Edited by skwirked, Dec 3 2015, 04:46 PM.
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Jonksy
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Rich
Dec 3 2015, 04:44 PM
Jonksy
Dec 3 2015, 04:39 PM
Alberich
Dec 3 2015, 04:36 PM
Given that Isil (or whatever they are called these days) is the most reactionary bunch of insane nut-jobs on the face of the earth, I am still trying to work out how bombing them is going to make us MORE safe. 'Cos that's what Dave has told us. Don't you agree that it might just have the opposite effect?
I think you are right...I woder what call me dave will do then when we have a Paris in London or any other of our cities or large towns?
Let us not forget that the security services have already foiled 7 terrorist attacks on the UK so far this year and that is without bombing Syria, so in answer to your post it will not place us in any more danger than we are already in and hopefully with strategic targetting of bombs we can help to degrade the means to fund Daesh's ability to project their terror abroad.

Leastways, that is how I read the words that come from politicians and military personnel.
Considering the French and the Americans have a better Security set up than the UK it didn't stop them from being hit...It's only a matter of time before it happens over here..
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RJD
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Alberich
Dec 3 2015, 04:36 PM
Given that Isil (or whatever they are called these days) is the most reactionary bunch of insane nut-jobs on the face of the earth, I am still trying to work out how bombing them is going to make us MORE safe. 'Cos that's what Dave has told us. Don't you agree that it might just have the opposite effect?
Bombing will not make us absolutely safe as those that wish to do us harm here in the UK are probably already plotting. But allowing these ISIL monsters to believe the same air as the rest of humanity is not acceptable and seeking to appease will only encourage. It is right and proper if the RAF in support of Iraq is chasing ISIL convoys towards the border then they should, if possible, continue across the border to vaporise them. No war against ISIL will be won from the air, it requires boots, but well targeted RAF strikes can demoralise and make the job simpler for ground troops. Ground troops formed from Muslim feet in boots I hope.
Britain as a nation, one under threat, cannot simply stand idly by and expect others to clean out the rat's nest. We are not a nation of lilly livered appeasers.
All that said the battle with ISIL will be on many fronts and the most difficult one will be here on our own turf.
Anyone thinking this is a black and white situation where it is clear the course in the war against these monsters is obvious, is dreaming, it will evolve and best we are prepared and have resolve. I get the impression that many fear attacking ISIL lest the threat on home turf escalates. It might. It might also if we do not attack. I really do not believe that if the UK said nay it would have made one iota of difference, our card is already marked.
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RJD
Dec 3 2015, 06:27 PM
Alberich
Dec 3 2015, 04:36 PM
Given that Isil (or whatever they are called these days) is the most reactionary bunch of insane nut-jobs on the face of the earth, I am still trying to work out how bombing them is going to make us MORE safe. 'Cos that's what Dave has told us. Don't you agree that it might just have the opposite effect?
Bombing will not make us absolutely safe as those that wish to do us harm here in the UK are probably already plotting. But allowing these ISIL monsters to believe the same air as the rest of humanity is not acceptable and seeking to appease will only encourage. It is right and proper if the RAF in support of Iraq is chasing ISIL convoys towards the border then they should, if possible, continue across the border to vaporise them. No war against ISIL will be won from the air, it requires boots, but well targeted RAF strikes can demoralise and make the job simpler for ground troops. Ground troops formed from Muslim feet in boots I hope.
Britain as a nation, one under threat, cannot simply stand idly by and expect others to clean out the rat's nest. We are not a nation of lilly livered appeasers.
All that said the battle with ISIL will be on many fronts and the most difficult one will be here on our own turf.
Anyone thinking this is a black and white situation where it is clear the course in the war against these monsters is obvious, is dreaming, it will evolve and best we are prepared and have resolve. I get the impression that many fear attacking ISIL lest the threat on home turf escalates. It might. It might also if we do not attack. I really do not believe that if the UK said nay it would have made one iota of difference, our card is already marked.


Personally I dont have objections to the RAF bombing ISIS convoys or oil installations in Syria but they wont just be doing that will they?
Soon we will be seeing innocent casualties on the TV and in the media. This will simply give ISIS or other anti West groups more recruits.
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Jonksy
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RJD
Dec 3 2015, 06:27 PM
Alberich
Dec 3 2015, 04:36 PM
Given that Isil (or whatever they are called these days) is the most reactionary bunch of insane nut-jobs on the face of the earth, I am still trying to work out how bombing them is going to make us MORE safe. 'Cos that's what Dave has told us. Don't you agree that it might just have the opposite effect?
Bombing will not make us absolutely safe as those that wish to do us harm here in the UK are probably already plotting. But allowing these ISIL monsters to believe the same air as the rest of humanity is not acceptable and seeking to appease will only encourage. It is right and proper if the RAF in support of Iraq is chasing ISIL convoys towards the border then they should, if possible, continue across the border to vaporise them. No war against ISIL will be won from the air, it requires boots, but well targeted RAF strikes can demoralise and make the job simpler for ground troops. Ground troops formed from Muslim feet in boots I hope.
Britain as a nation, one under threat, cannot simply stand idly by and expect others to clean out the rat's nest. We are not a nation of lilly livered appeasers.
All that said the battle with ISIL will be on many fronts and the most difficult one will be here on our own turf.
Anyone thinking this is a black and white situation where it is clear the course in the war against these monsters is obvious, is dreaming, it will evolve and best we are prepared and have resolve. I get the impression that many fear attacking ISIL lest the threat on home turf escalates. It might. It might also if we do not attack. I really do not believe that if the UK said nay it would have made one iota of difference, our card is already marked.
But dave IS lily livered...Why is he not sorting out the terrorist that mainly he has allowed into the UK? Why is he allowing the ones who go and fight on ISIS side back into the UK? He has done bugger all yet again but he will be the first to ring his hands when the shit hits the fan here..
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Jonksy
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RJD
Dec 3 2015, 06:27 PM
Alberich
Dec 3 2015, 04:36 PM
Given that Isil (or whatever they are called these days) is the most reactionary bunch of insane nut-jobs on the face of the earth, I am still trying to work out how bombing them is going to make us MORE safe. 'Cos that's what Dave has told us. Don't you agree that it might just have the opposite effect?
Bombing will not make us absolutely safe as those that wish to do us harm here in the UK are probably already plotting. But allowing these ISIL monsters to believe the same air as the rest of humanity is not acceptable and seeking to appease will only encourage. It is right and proper if the RAF in support of Iraq is chasing ISIL convoys towards the border then they should, if possible, continue across the border to vaporise them. No war against ISIL will be won from the air, it requires boots, but well targeted RAF strikes can demoralise and make the job simpler for ground troops. Ground troops formed from Muslim feet in boots I hope.
Britain as a nation, one under threat, cannot simply stand idly by and expect others to clean out the rat's nest. We are not a nation of lilly livered appeasers.
All that said the battle with ISIL will be on many fronts and the most difficult one will be here on our own turf.
Anyone thinking this is a black and white situation where it is clear the course in the war against these monsters is obvious, is dreaming, it will evolve and best we are prepared and have resolve. I get the impression that many fear attacking ISIL lest the threat on home turf escalates. It might. It might also if we do not attack. I really do not believe that if the UK said nay it would have made one iota of difference, our card is already marked.
But dave IS lily livered...Why is he not sorting out the terrorist that mainly he has allowed into the UK? Why is he allowing the ones who go and fight on ISIS side back into the UK? He has done bugger all yet again but he will be the first to ring his hands when the shit hits the fan here..
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Tigger
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gansao
Dec 3 2015, 06:36 PM

Soon we will be seeing innocent casualties on the TV and in the media. This will simply give ISIS or other anti West groups more recruits.
You need to give the logic a rest for a couple of weeks, the "ruthless toothless" (I like that phrase) currently have hard ons and are impervious to bland statements of fact for the time being.

My betting is we'll not see to many mangled civilians in the mainstream media, you'll find those off the beaten track.
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Rich
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Tigger
Dec 3 2015, 11:27 PM
gansao
Dec 3 2015, 06:36 PM

Soon we will be seeing innocent casualties on the TV and in the media. This will simply give ISIS or other anti West groups more recruits.
You need to give the logic a rest for a couple of weeks, the "ruthless toothless" (I like that phrase) currently have hard ons and are impervious to bland statements of fact for the time being.

My betting is we'll not see to many mangled civilians in the mainstream media, you'll find those off the beaten track.
That goes on anyway, all day and every day without the Brits being involved so please do not try and put a spin on this topic.
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Tigger
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Rich
Dec 3 2015, 11:30 PM
That goes on anyway, all day and every day without the Brits being involved so please do not try and put a spin on this topic.
It's hardly "spin" is it?

Unless you think we don't kill civilians, or more likely we apologise when we do so it's ok really?

Try explaining that to the average ME nutter.
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Stonefish
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Well apparently since we started airstrikes on isis in Iraq there hasn't been a single civvie casualty, if done carefully I'm sure risk of that can be kept to a bare minimum. The US and others don't appear to be so carefull ,doesn't mean we can't be.
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Steve K
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Thread title decrypted to match OP
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Tigger
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Stonefish
Dec 3 2015, 11:39 PM
Well apparently since we started airstrikes on isis in Iraq there hasn't been a single civvie casualty, if done carefully I'm sure risk of that can be kept to a bare minimum. The US and others don't appear to be so carefull ,doesn't mean we can't be.
Well if the "allies" want to do the job properly it's going to be boots on the ground isn't it? Billy Vague suggested that yesterday, and I personally agree but will anyone who really matters like Assad, Iran or even Russia?

Once ISIS retreats to urban areas, and they will, we will start killing civilians as well as the intended targets, that is just a fact of war, and as for Cameron saying it could take up to three years? How does he know this?

The first mass grave of collateral damage will see the flag waving cease, blokes on foot need to get the job done but our politicians dare not mention this.
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johnofgwent
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Rich
Dec 3 2015, 03:41 PM
papasmurf
Dec 3 2015, 03:37 PM
skwirked
Dec 3 2015, 03:33 PM
No doubt you'd prove that you are in no way a "compassionless bastard".

There is nothing compassionless about vermin clearance as a self defence measure. Cameron is tasked with the defence of the realm, he is not fulfilling that duty.
But he is doing his level best despite the protestations of the do gooders....or if you like in "Dave's" own words, terrorist sympathisers, perhaps now people can see why he did not apologise for his choice of words.
well I don't subscribe to his viewpoint, and frankly, I heard far more sense from those "terrorist sympathisers" than from cameron,. who, let's face it. is under pressure to give those arms dealer pal;s of his a chance to make a killing
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Steve K
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johnofgwent
Dec 4 2015, 12:20 AM
Rich
Dec 3 2015, 03:41 PM
papasmurf
Dec 3 2015, 03:37 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
But he is doing his level best despite the protestations of the do gooders....or if you like in "Dave's" own words, terrorist sympathisers, perhaps now people can see why he did not apologise for his choice of words.
well I don't subscribe to his viewpoint, and frankly, I heard far more sense from those "terrorist sympathisers" than from cameron,. who, let's face it. is under pressure to give those arms dealer pal;s of his a chance to make a killing
He is?

Where's the evidence of that?
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Rich
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Steve K
Dec 4 2015, 12:28 AM
johnofgwent
Dec 4 2015, 12:20 AM
Rich
Dec 3 2015, 03:41 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
well I don't subscribe to his viewpoint, and frankly, I heard far more sense from those "terrorist sympathisers" than from cameron,. who, let's face it. is under pressure to give those arms dealer pal;s of his a chance to make a killing
He is?

Where's the evidence of that?
I hope to be educated on this topic too.
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Cymru
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Alberich
Dec 3 2015, 04:36 PM
Given that Isil (or whatever they are called these days) is the most reactionary bunch of insane nut-jobs on the face of the earth, I am still trying to work out how bombing them is going to make us MORE safe. 'Cos that's what Dave has told us. Don't you agree that it might just have the opposite effect?
Agreed.

It is gesture politics of the lowest order, happily risking innocent lives so 4 decrepit Panavia Tornadoes can let loose a few million pounds worth of ordnance in the desert and have defence contractors profit by resupplying them.
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Jonksy
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Cymru
Dec 4 2015, 02:21 AM
Alberich
Dec 3 2015, 04:36 PM
Given that Isil (or whatever they are called these days) is the most reactionary bunch of insane nut-jobs on the face of the earth, I am still trying to work out how bombing them is going to make us MORE safe. 'Cos that's what Dave has told us. Don't you agree that it might just have the opposite effect?
Agreed.

It is gesture politics of the lowest order, happily risking innocent lives so 4 decrepit Panavia Tornadoes can let loose a few million pounds worth of ordnance in the desert and have defence contractors profit by resupplying them.
Of course what many of us forget is the shelf life for much of the Ordnance is around 14 years. I wonder if it is coincidence that the two gulf wars and now the bombing in Syria falls in with that time-span In other words use it or scrap it..
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skwirked
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Jonksy
Dec 4 2015, 03:08 AM
Cymru
Dec 4 2015, 02:21 AM
Alberich
Dec 3 2015, 04:36 PM
Given that Isil (or whatever they are called these days) is the most reactionary bunch of insane nut-jobs on the face of the earth, I am still trying to work out how bombing them is going to make us MORE safe. 'Cos that's what Dave has told us. Don't you agree that it might just have the opposite effect?
Agreed.

It is gesture politics of the lowest order, happily risking innocent lives so 4 decrepit Panavia Tornadoes can let loose a few million pounds worth of ordnance in the desert and have defence contractors profit by resupplying them.
Of course what many of us forget is the shelf life for much of the Ordnance is around 14 years. I wonder if it is coincidence that the two gulf wars and now the bombing in Syria falls in with that time-span In other words use it or scrap it..


That'd be par for the course with this govt.
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Affa
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Tigger
Dec 3 2015, 11:27 PM


My betting is we'll not see to many mangled civilians in the mainstream media, you'll find those off the beaten track.

This is extremely relevant!
Much of what we, and I do include myself, believe is formed from what we are informed of ........ the media play a huge role in that (still), and can make everything appear to be going as planned, as told, when it likely does not.
British Muslims have a different source of information (no less unreliable), and will form their understandings from a very biased standpoint.

Most will read that last sentence and consider Muslims fools for believing it, the 'lies' told ..... not realising that they too as foolish for believing our press/tv reports.


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RJD
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johnofgwent
Dec 4 2015, 12:20 AM
Rich
Dec 3 2015, 03:41 PM
papasmurf
Dec 3 2015, 03:37 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
But he is doing his level best despite the protestations of the do gooders....or if you like in "Dave's" own words, terrorist sympathisers, perhaps now people can see why he did not apologise for his choice of words.
well I don't subscribe to his viewpoint, and frankly, I heard far more sense from those "terrorist sympathisers" than from cameron,. who, let's face it. is under pressure to give those arms dealer pal;s of his a chance to make a killing
You have evidence that Cameron has personal friends who are making a killing from producing these weapons do you? If so name just one and show the size of the killing. To me your claim sounds like unsubstantiated claptrap and I wish you would for once attempt to substantiate.

As for vermin clearance I understand from our local Rat Catcher that it is best to exterminate the lot of them, because if you leave a pocket here or there then soon you will be overrun again.

There will be collateral damage, yes innocents will be killed by our bombs as ISIL will make sure of that. But it is the old numbers game again, how many can you tolerate in vaporising that nest of vipers? One, none, tens, hundreds or thousands?









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Jonksy
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RJD
Dec 4 2015, 07:58 AM
johnofgwent
Dec 4 2015, 12:20 AM
Rich
Dec 3 2015, 03:41 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
well I don't subscribe to his viewpoint, and frankly, I heard far more sense from those "terrorist sympathisers" than from cameron,. who, let's face it. is under pressure to give those arms dealer pal;s of his a chance to make a killing
You have evidence that Cameron has personal friends who are making a killing from producing these weapons do you? If so name just one and show the size of the killing. To me your claim sounds like unsubstantiated claptrap and I wish you would for once attempt to substantiate.

As for vermin clearance I understand from our local Rat Catcher that it is best to exterminate the lot of them, because if you leave a pocket here or there then soon you will be overrun again.

There will be collateral damage, yes innocents will be killed by our bombs as ISIL will make sure of that. But it is the old numbers game again, how many can you tolerate in vaporising that nest of vipers? One, none, tens, hundreds or thousands?









Cameron takes arms dealers with him on Egypt visit to promote democracy

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1359316/Prime-Minister-David-Cameron-takes-arms-dealers-Egypt-promote-democracy.html#ixzz3tLcBE8D4

David Cameron: UK arms sales to Gulf countries 'legitimate'


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/nov/05/david-cameron-arms-sales-gulf

David Cameron sells guns


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jameskirkup/100077804/david-cameron-sells-guns-democracy-and-britain/

Britain can push democracy or weapons – but not both

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/feb/22/britain-push-democracy-weapons-cameron


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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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You do know Jonsky that our arms supply affordability depends on the suppliers having export contracts and that this and previous governments have promoted all UK products military and non military?

In fact the arms industry is the one that governments intervene in most TO PREVENT the likes of arms supplier BAE making profits

But hey ho that's only facts.
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Jonksy
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Steve K
Dec 4 2015, 10:57 AM
You do know Jonsky that our arms supply affordability depends on the suppliers having export contracts and that this and previous governments have promoted all UK products military and non military?

In fact the arms industry is the one that governments intervene in most TO PREVENT the likes of arms supplier BAE making profits

But hey ho that's only facts.
Would that be the same BAE systems who along with thatcher carried out the biggest arms deal scandal ever? But Hey Ho those are only FACTS..

Scandal of the Century
Rocks British Crown and the City


http://larouchepub.com/other/2007/3425scandal_of_cntry.html

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=6863
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