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I'm Dreaming of a White Xmas (We Luv U Nige); UKIP brilliance
Topic Started: Dec 5 2015, 12:56 PM (673 Views)
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/ukip-van-playing-bing-crosbys-10546137

Nothing wrong with that IMO, should've stuck golliwog dolls on the sides too; absolutely nothing racist about them either, or any of this IMHO.

Flinging burning qurans covered in goatshit at brown people who are likely Muslims is fair too IMHO, nothing racist about that as Islam is not technically a race.

I have absolutely no idea why UKIP lost the election, completely escapes me.

It's those fraudulent postal-Muzzies I think.
Edited by skwirked, Dec 7 2015, 09:33 PM.
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johnofgwent
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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scorpio
Dec 6 2015, 02:04 AM
Parties that have a narrow philosophy, and mind set, will always be protest parties, with emphasis on the negative, rather than the positive. They therefore will always be opposition parties.
I'm reading your words while picturing David Cameron at the Despatch Box and IDS at the DWP, and before that Cameron and Clegg, and before that Brown and Blair, and before that Maggie and "her brilliant chancellors" and the more i picture any of that, the more your words seem ... invalid.

Britain has been "governed" by a government of narrow minded people hell bent on making life better for a very tightly focussed group while throwing the rest of us to the wolves for all of my working life, they just conned the gullible buggers who voted for them into thinking otherwise.


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Stonefish
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Happy Hornet
Dec 8 2015, 06:37 AM
Say what you like about FPTP but we have no way of knowing how people would have voted if we had PR it didn't stop the SNP getting 50 odd seats.

I think the number of votes UKIP got versus the number of seats shows that UKIP's support is too thinly spread. It's people like me, the floating voters that UKIP need to win over if they ever want to be a real force in British politics but I've never once had a Kipper even attempt to engage in a discussion with me and ask what they would need to do to secure my support. Hence they are where they are.


Complete crap.
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RJD
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Prudence and Thrift
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Steve K
Dec 5 2015, 11:35 PM
Stonefish
Dec 5 2015, 11:32 PM
skwirked
Dec 5 2015, 10:09 PM
Maybe but there is a grain of truth in the 'you could have a pint with him' image.

They are not MUCH worse IMO than the three main parties usually (if we are talking about Brownite/Blairite NL - obviously Corbyn's Labour is far far better than any of these cretins).

But as you say the right wing racism in UKIP is a huge turn off, if they shed some of that then maybe they'll get to lib dem-level 'notoriety'.


Could you provide some examples of official right wing racism please.
Janice Ting Tong Atkinson for a start

UKIP took no action against her for that thereby endorsing it. Then she was caught asking for false receipts
The claim that "no action" is endorsement is a logical fallacy. Such might be true, but that is insufficient proof to claim QED.
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Happy Hornet
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Stonefish, thank you for proving my point. How exactly do you think dismissing my viewpoint as "complete cr@p" is going to win me over to voting UKIP?
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Stonefish
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Happy Hornet
Dec 8 2015, 08:37 AM
Stonefish, thank you for proving my point. How exactly do you think dismissing my viewpoint as "complete cr@p" is going to win me over to voting UKIP?


Well first,i'm not trying to win you over to vote UKIP ,and second you will never ever vote UKIP no matter how well any arguments were or are put.
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Steve K
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Stonefish
Dec 8 2015, 09:27 AM
Happy Hornet
Dec 8 2015, 08:37 AM
Stonefish, thank you for proving my point. How exactly do you think dismissing my viewpoint as "complete cr@p" is going to win me over to voting UKIP?


Well first,i'm not trying to win you over to vote UKIP ,and second you will never ever vote UKIP no matter how well any arguments were or are put.
I think you underestimate the number of frustrated floating voters that could be persuaded IF they would only show some middle ground views

For a start who was the only significant party opposed to holding an EU referendum? UKIP

And which party never apologises for using incorrect figures? UKIP

And which party has an appalling record for attracting and promoting dodgy people? UKIP

As I've posted before, when you got Carswell onboard, Farage was consistently and eleoquently opposing racism and Evans was leading policy you were on the right track but Farage effed it. It is hard to escape the conclusion that what Farage really wants is to be the head of a fringe party.

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Happy Hornet
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Spot on Steve, I would have at least considered voting for UKIP if someone like Carswell had been leading the party. From what I've seen of him I have been impressed, sadly that's been very little and will remain the case as long as Farrage is in charge and treating the party like his own personal vanity project.

I think the SNP's success showed that people are crying out for a genuine alternative to the established parties. UKIP tried to sell themselves as this but its rather unconvincing when the person delivering the message is an establishment cliche and his party and supporters seem just as out of touch as the rest, they only seem to talk to each other

UKIP will get nowhere so long as Farrage is running the show IMHO.
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Stonefish
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Steve K
Dec 8 2015, 09:38 AM
Stonefish
Dec 8 2015, 09:27 AM
Happy Hornet
Dec 8 2015, 08:37 AM
Stonefish, thank you for proving my point. How exactly do you think dismissing my viewpoint as "complete cr@p" is going to win me over to voting UKIP?


Well first,i'm not trying to win you over to vote UKIP ,and second you will never ever vote UKIP no matter how well any arguments were or are put.
I think you underestimate the number of frustrated floating voters that could be persuaded IF they would only show some middle ground views

For a start who was the only significant party opposed to holding an EU referendum? UKIP

And which party never apologises for using incorrect figures? UKIP

And which party has an appalling record for attracting and promoting dodgy people? UKIP

As I've posted before, when you got Carswell onboard, Farage was consistently and eleoquently opposing racism and Evans was leading policy you were on the right track but Farage effed it. It is hard to escape the conclusion that what Farage really wants is to be the head of a fringe party.



HH will never and would never vote for UKIP

As for middle ground,would you care to expand on what you mean by tha?

Er where did you ever get the idea UKIP was opposed to a referendum,it was UKIP who are responsible for us getting a bloody referendum in the first place?!

UKIP if it does use incorrect figures does so WAY less than the other mainstream parties.

Its record for promoting dodgy figures is no different than any other,it just they get more media attention,and the fact is most were previously members of the Cons ,and yet their dodginess was completely ignored then ,funny that isn't it.

It's a funny fringe party that get the third highest number of vote in an election ,nearly more than the SNP ,Lib Dems and the SNP put together.

That's some bloody weird stuff you've come up with there Steve K

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Stonefish
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Happy Hornet
Dec 8 2015, 09:54 AM
Spot on Steve, I would have at least considered voting for UKIP if someone like Carswell had been leading the party. From what I've seen of him I have been impressed, sadly that's been very little and will remain the case as long as Farrage is in charge and treating the party like his own personal vanity project.

I think the SNP's success showed that people are crying out for a genuine alternative to the established parties. UKIP tried to sell themselves as this but its rather unconvincing when the person delivering the message is an establishment cliche and his party and supporters seem just as out of touch as the rest, they only seem to talk to each other

UKIP will get nowhere so long as Farrage is running the show IMHO.


Complete crap...again.
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Happy Hornet
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Stonefish, I will thank you not to speak for me and to say that I would never vote UKIP simply isn't true, I could well vote for them under different leadership. Your attitude towards me however sums up perfectly why I will not vote for UKIP in its current form, seems I'm far from alone in that as well.
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Stonefish
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Happy Hornet
Dec 8 2015, 10:04 AM
Stonefish, I will thank you not to speak for me and to say that I would never vote UKIP simply isn't true, I could well vote for them under different leadership. Your attitude towards me however sums up perfectly why I will not vote for UKIP in its current form, seems I'm far from alone in that as well.


You'll never vote for UKIP full stop,the only way would be if UKIP made such radical changes it wouldn't be UKIP anymore.

UKIP won't change,it sticks to it's principles and Farage is going nowhere he made UKIP what it is now,you'll have to vote for another party,sorry for the inconvenience.
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skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
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Steve K
Dec 8 2015, 09:38 AM
Stonefish
Dec 8 2015, 09:27 AM
Happy Hornet
Dec 8 2015, 08:37 AM
Stonefish, thank you for proving my point. How exactly do you think dismissing my viewpoint as "complete cr@p" is going to win me over to voting UKIP?


Well first,i'm not trying to win you over to vote UKIP ,and second you will never ever vote UKIP no matter how well any arguments were or are put.
I think you underestimate the number of frustrated floating voters that could be persuaded IF they would only show some middle ground views

For a start who was the only significant party opposed to holding an EU referendum? UKIP

And which party never apologises for using incorrect figures? UKIP

And which party has an appalling record for attracting and promoting dodgy people? UKIP

As I've posted before, when you got Carswell onboard, Farage was consistently and eleoquently opposing racism and Evans was leading policy you were on the right track but Farage effed it. It is hard to escape the conclusion that what Farage really wants is to be the head of a fringe party.

When did UKIP oppose holding an EU referendum?

I can see why they'd oppose it as a sham (which it is) but I don't recall this.

I agree with the rest.
Edited by skwirked, Dec 8 2015, 10:22 AM.
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Happy Hornet
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Stonefish, I flatter myself that I know my own mind better than you do, in fact it would be beyond absurd for you to claim otherwise. Speaking of absurd, you now seem to be openly discouraging me from voting for UKIP. And you wonder why you dont have more seats?

I would say its true that Farrage got UKIP where it is now but IMO he's not capable of taking the party to the next level. Under his leadership the party has only 1 seat in parliament yet still somehow managed to have a backbenchers revolt.
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Steve K
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Perhaps Stonefish you should break the trend of so many UKIP supporters and actually read their election manifesto.

http://www.ukip.org/manifesto2015

No EU in/out referendum, they explicitly said only a vote on "Do you wish Britain to be a free, independent sovereign democracy?" because UKIP as so often wanted to muddy the waters knowing full well that we currently are an independent sovereign democracy.
Edited by Steve K, Dec 8 2015, 10:26 AM.
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papasmurf
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Steve K
Dec 8 2015, 09:38 AM

And which party has an appalling record for attracting and promoting dodgy people? UKIP

David Cameron is the gold medallist candidate for attracting and promoting dodgy people.
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skwirked
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Well that was pretty much dead wrong wasn't it.

Posted Image

Edit: Misread who Steve's post was addressed to. :-[
Edited by skwirked, Dec 8 2015, 10:49 AM.
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Opinionater
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Steve K
Dec 8 2015, 09:38 AM
Stonefish
Dec 8 2015, 09:27 AM
Happy Hornet
Dec 8 2015, 08:37 AM
Stonefish, thank you for proving my point. How exactly do you think dismissing my viewpoint as "complete cr@p" is going to win me over to voting UKIP?


Well first,i'm not trying to win you over to vote UKIP ,and second you will never ever vote UKIP no matter how well any arguments were or are put.
I think you underestimate the number of frustrated floating voters that could be persuaded IF they would only show some middle ground views

For a start who was the only significant party opposed to holding an EU referendum? UKIP

And which party never apologises for using incorrect figures? UKIP

And which party has an appalling record for attracting and promoting dodgy people? UKIP

As I've posted before, when you got Carswell onboard, Farage was consistently and eleoquently opposing racism and Evans was leading policy you were on the right track but Farage effed it. It is hard to escape the conclusion that what Farage really wants is to be the head of a fringe party.

When did UKIP oppose holding a referendum?

Which party never apoloogise for using incorrect figures, UKIP. Did you miss off the other parties or are you saying they never produce incorrect figures?

Which party has an appalling record for attracting and promoting dodgy people? Again are you seriously suggesting that only occurs in UKIP?


The major difference between UKIP and the others is that they are inexperienced and developing a party, that's bond to result in mistakes being made and exposed by the press.

Edited by Opinionater, Dec 8 2015, 10:46 AM.
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skwirked
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Opinionator you are right, but some of the crap UKIP has come out with and not apologised for is pretty damning despite all the whinging we've seen from the kippers/sympathisers.

And UKIP have got some very basic stats hugely wrong, to be fair Steve has single handedly torn them a new hole several times with regards to such. :P
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Stonefish
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Steve K
Dec 8 2015, 10:25 AM
Perhaps Stonefish you should break the trend of so many UKIP supporters and actually read their election manifesto.

http://www.ukip.org/manifesto2015

No EU in/out referendum, they explicitly said only a vote on "Do you wish Britain to be a free, independent sovereign democracy?" because UKIP as so often wanted to muddy the waters knowing full well that we currently are an independent sovereign democracy.


Absurd
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Steve K
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No it's not. They opposed holding a clear In/Out referendum. It's there in black and white in skwirked's post

They would only hold a referendum with words that would never in a million years meet the Electoral Commission standard for an In/Out referendum

Because they were frightened of an honest vote
Edited by Steve K, Dec 8 2015, 11:14 AM.
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Stonefish
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Steve K
Dec 8 2015, 11:13 AM
No it's not. They opposed holding a clear In/Out referendum. It's there in black and white in skwirked's post

They would only hold a referendum with words that would never in a million years meet the Electoral Commission standard for an In/Out referendum

Because they were frightened of an honest vote


FFS Steve you can do better than this ,at the time the referendum was being announced there was fighting as to the wording of how it would be presented to the public.

The outs like UKIP wanted a more pro exit stance ,the ins ,exactly the opposite.In fact the UKIP question seems reasonable enough to me as well as any caveats.UKIP were and are extremely suspicious of Cameron trying to rig the vote...and your not lol ?????

It's normal, you aim high,expecting to get the middle ground and that I believe is what has happened.

But don't for a second suggest UKIP didn't want a referendum,thats what UKIP have been all about since their formation ffs.
Edited by Stonefish, Dec 8 2015, 11:21 AM.
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Tytoalba
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gansao
Dec 5 2015, 09:56 PM
Ah UKIP. A right wing racist, neo liberalist bunch of misfits lead by an avuncular con man .
How is Le Pen doing in France? Wasn't much the same things said about her and her party?

Far right Marine Le Pen storms to victory in first round of French elections UKIP and Farrage represent a voice of a number of the electorate around the country, Put aside the biased emotional rhetoric nd address the substance.
All it needs is the event, the moment in time, the right{or wrong according to your POV} person, and the concerns of the moment to make a huge difference to outcomes of elections.

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Affa
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UKIP reformed to counter the rising popularity of the BNP.
That job done there is no longer any need for them to remain credible ...... and so the media verdict is that they are not.

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skwirked
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Back to OP.

I think I should clarify that even the vilest most 'nasty' racist jokes offend me not one iota. Neither does UKIP's behaviour; it just lost them votes because it made them look a bit silly.

That's what I was pointing out. Frankly I'd love them to out as much as possible for all to see. Offended? !jk!

Re the Kipper's mental balance, it's "like a big fat fucking retarded fucking black girl on a see-saw opposite a dwarf"

;-)

Hope no one's offended (kudos for recognising the classic film the quote's from).
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Pro Veritas
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Steve K
Dec 5 2015, 11:35 PM
UKIP took no action against her for that thereby endorsing it.
You still haven't read that Logic For Dummies have you?

By your logic every single Muslim who took no action against ISIS endorses what ISIS does.

All The Best
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Steve K
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Pro Veritas
Dec 8 2015, 12:12 PM
Steve K
Dec 5 2015, 11:35 PM
UKIP took no action against her for that thereby endorsing it.
You still haven't read that Logic For Dummies have you?

By your logic every single Muslim who took no action against ISIS endorses what ISIS does.

All The Best
Perhaps you missed that she was their MEP, Farage apologised but then said she didn't have to. So he'd admitted it was racist but thought that was OK for one of their top representatives to be so.

Sure looks like endorsement

And your parallel is absurd.

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Tytoalba
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Affa
Dec 8 2015, 12:01 PM
UKIP reformed to counter the rising popularity of the BNP.
That job done there is no longer any need for them to remain credible ...... and so the media verdict is that they are not.

Their title is UNITED KINGDOM INDIPENDENCE PARTY. and that comes with border controls. The country is split on independence {from the EU} and the numbers of the population with immigration and its cultural change high on the list. There are out campaigners in every party, and I have signed up for the out Campaign in the Conservative party.
After the referendum there may be no need for UKIP, but then again there may be an even greater call and support for them. Events over which we have no control.
Reports of their death is premature.
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Tytoalba
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skwirked
Dec 8 2015, 12:07 PM
Back to OP.

I think I should clarify that even the vilest most 'nasty' racist jokes offend me not one iota. Neither does UKIP's behaviour; it just lost them votes because it made them look a bit silly.

That's what I was pointing out. Frankly I'd love them to out as much as possible for all to see. Offended? !jk!

Re the Kipper's mental balance, it's "like a big fat fucking retarded fucking black girl on a see-saw opposite a dwarf"

;-)

Hope no one's offended (kudos for recognising the classic film the quote's from).
I'm offended by the falsity of your statement. It is just self serving nonsense, and quite unnecessary on a message board like this.
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Steve K
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Tytoalba
Dec 8 2015, 12:33 PM
I'm offended by the falsity of your statement. It is just self serving nonsense, and quite unnecessary on a message board like this.
Yes it is vile but is it offensive enough to disrupt debate?
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ACH1967
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more importantly what is the film?
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skwirked
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https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/In_Bruges

Classic film. :)
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Pro Veritas
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Steve K
Dec 8 2015, 12:19 PM
And your parallel is absurd.

As is your understanding of basic logic.

All The Best
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RJD
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Steve K
Dec 8 2015, 12:19 PM
Pro Veritas
Dec 8 2015, 12:12 PM
Steve K
Dec 5 2015, 11:35 PM
UKIP took no action against her for that thereby endorsing it.
You still haven't read that Logic For Dummies have you?

By your logic every single Muslim who took no action against ISIS endorses what ISIS does.

All The Best
Perhaps you missed that she was their MEP, Farage apologised but then said she didn't have to. So he'd admitted it was racist but thought that was OK for one of their top representatives to be so.

Sure looks like endorsement

And your parallel is absurd.

It might look like such, but that is no proof that it is. Yours is just an opinion nothing more.

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