Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Uk Debate Mk 2, the UK's liveliest political and social debate site.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Momentum group moves to block influence of hard-left parties; Members of other parties will not be allowed at decision-making meetings, says body set up to support new Labour leader
Topic Started: Dec 9 2015, 03:14 PM (201 Views)
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
[ *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
Momentum, the group set up to support Jeremy Corbyn inside the Labour party, is to draw up a code of conduct so that members of other parties will not be allowed to attend its decision-making meetings.

[...]

It would mean members of other leftwing parties such as Left Unity and the Communist party would not be allowed to attend its decision-making meetings. Momentum has decided that office holders in the group must all be Labour members and it is urgently preparing plans to develop a more democratic structure. [...] Tom Watson, the Labour deputy leader, said in a Twitter exchange on Monday night that Momentum had an entryist problem in some of its branches. [...] In a statement issued at lunchtime on Tuesday in the wake of the Guardian report, Momentum said the group had “sprung out of a desire to empower people not previously energised, to encourage those people to engage in debate and to organise on issues which affect them in their communities”.

The statement continued: “So we think it is right for Momentum to be seeking to work with coalitions and campaigning groups outside the Labour party nationally and locally.

“What we will not allow, and we don’t think our supporters will accept, is for our grassroots network to be used by other groups to push their agendas which have for decades been set against the Labour party and those members who have worked hard to get us to this position.”


On its Facebook page, Momentum added: “Alliances are a different thing – as we say, we will work with other groups and campaigns, but we can’t allow Momentum to be used as a vehicle for other parties. So if you are a member of the Socialist party, or the SWP, for instance, you cannot also be involved in decision making within Momentum.”


This must be awful news for the dim, tribal bottom-feeders; both right and left wing. How dare Corbyn actually sensibly govern Labour..he MUST BE SEEN to be Failing otherwise we gots us some trouble. We gots snake eyes. ;-)

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/08/jeremy-corbyn-momentum-group-moves-to-block-influence-of-hard-left-parties
Edited by skwirked, Dec 9 2015, 03:23 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
papasmurf
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
It isn't Corbyn's group, he doesn't own it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
[ *  *  *  * ]
Yeah true, did he even found it? I don't think he did. It's the title of the article, you can always count on the grauniad..  ::)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Affa
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
When push comes to shove the Guardian will take the Establishment line.
Maybe never as vicious, but it does remain pro status quo.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
[ *  *  *  * ]
True. But this article was mostly fair, I thought. It gave every side their fair hearing (even if the title was dodgy).
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rich
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Affa
Dec 9 2015, 04:52 PM
When push comes to shove the Guardian will take the Establishment line.
Maybe never as vicious, but it does remain pro status quo.

Really, it highlights the double standards of labour when it comes to having links with dubious bodies.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/26/tessa-jowell-harriet-harman-daily-mail-paedophila-row
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
[ *  *  *  * ]
Well Lab aren't alone with that sadly.

Seems Corbyn is doing a fine job at reforming Lab and they are actually crusaders against such horrific stuff.



Good that they distance themselves so:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-mp-tom-watson-admits-he-would-not-have-touched-paedophile-rights-group-pie-with-a-bargepole-9155518.html
Edited by skwirked, Dec 9 2015, 09:34 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rich
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
skwirked
Dec 9 2015, 09:32 PM
Well Lab aren't alone with that sadly.

Seems Corbyn is doing a fine job at reforming Lab and they are actually crusaders against such horrific stuff.



Good that they distance themselves so:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-mp-tom-watson-admits-he-would-not-have-touched-paedophile-rights-group-pie-with-a-bargepole-9155518.html
I am of the opinion that the old cliche' is true...Leopards do not change their spots, and Mr Corbyn is going to attend Momentum's Christmas Party, strange that is it not when he has apparently distanced himself from their agenda?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
papasmurf
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Rich
Dec 9 2015, 09:38 PM
Mr Corbyn is going to attend Momentum's Christmas Party,
Evidence?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tigger
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
papasmurf
Dec 9 2015, 10:03 PM
Evidence?
He's currently stuffing a turkey with the entrails of dead capitalists and freedom loving members of the right wing press.

;-)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
[ *  *  *  * ]
Rich, Corbyn fully embraces Momentum's agenda.

Please explain to us why he shouldn't.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rich
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
papasmurf
Dec 9 2015, 10:03 PM
Rich
Dec 9 2015, 09:38 PM
Mr Corbyn is going to attend Momentum's Christmas Party,
Evidence?
Well, I am switching between a film and here at present, but if you use BBC I player and watch the daily politics show chaired by Andrew neil and Jo Cole you will hear Mr Neil state as much, if not I will upload the link a bit later.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
papasmurf
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Rich
Dec 9 2015, 10:57 PM
Well, I am switching between a film and here at present, but if you use BBC I player and watch the daily politics show chaired by Andrew neil and Jo Cole you will hear Mr Neil state as much, if not I will upload the link a bit later.
I suspect Andrew Neil was taking the piss, as he often does. His comments are not evidence.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
[ *  *  *  * ]
Would someone explain why he is wrong to embrace Momentum.

Hint: it's a broad camp that isn't ultra-lefty dominated.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
papasmurf
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Rich
Dec 9 2015, 10:57 PM
Well, I am switching between a film and here at present, but if you use BBC I player and watch the daily politics show chaired by Andrew neil and Jo Cole you will hear Mr Neil state as much, if not I will upload the link a bit later.
I suggest YOU watch the BBC I player and then retract/edit your comment.
(I just wasted my time watching it.)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rich
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
papasmurf
Dec 9 2015, 11:11 PM
Rich
Dec 9 2015, 10:57 PM
Well, I am switching between a film and here at present, but if you use BBC I player and watch the daily politics show chaired by Andrew neil and Jo Cole you will hear Mr Neil state as much, if not I will upload the link a bit later.
I suggest YOU watch the BBC I player and then retract/edit your comment.
(I just wasted my time watching it.)
Well thank you for taking your time Papa, I have just watched it again and guess what, that particular line appears to have been edited out, but if you care to listen again you will hear Lucy Powell say, " Well, if he wants to go, that is up to him", so, I suggest that it is the BBC who is taking the piss and not Mr Neil, BTW, my wife listened to the same programme as me at the same time and was just as surprised as myself.

Make of that what you will, but please do not tacitly infer that I tell lies.....I am not that stupid.
Edited by Rich, Dec 10 2015, 12:32 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
papasmurf
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Rich
Dec 10 2015, 12:30 AM
Well thank you for taking your time Papa, I have just watched it again and guess what, that particular line appears to have been edited out,
No it hasn't, it was neither a Christman party or Momentum. It was a fundraiser for stop the war.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tytoalba
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
skwirked
Dec 9 2015, 03:14 PM
Quote:
 
Momentum, the group set up to support Jeremy Corbyn inside the Labour party, is to draw up a code of conduct so that members of other parties will not be allowed to attend its decision-making meetings.

[...]

It would mean members of other leftwing parties such as Left Unity and the Communist party would not be allowed to attend its decision-making meetings. Momentum has decided that office holders in the group must all be Labour members and it is urgently preparing plans to develop a more democratic structure. [...] Tom Watson, the Labour deputy leader, said in a Twitter exchange on Monday night that Momentum had an entryist problem in some of its branches. [...] In a statement issued at lunchtime on Tuesday in the wake of the Guardian report, Momentum said the group had “sprung out of a desire to empower people not previously energised, to encourage those people to engage in debate and to organise on issues which affect them in their communities”.

The statement continued: “So we think it is right for Momentum to be seeking to work with coalitions and campaigning groups outside the Labour party nationally and locally.

“What we will not allow, and we don’t think our supporters will accept, is for our grassroots network to be used by other groups to push their agendas which have for decades been set against the Labour party and those members who have worked hard to get us to this position.”


On its Facebook page, Momentum added: “Alliances are a different thing – as we say, we will work with other groups and campaigns, but we can’t allow Momentum to be used as a vehicle for other parties. So if you are a member of the Socialist party, or the SWP, for instance, you cannot also be involved in decision making within Momentum.”


This must be awful news for the dim, tribal bottom-feeders; both right and left wing. How dare Corbyn actually sensibly govern Labour..he MUST BE SEEN to be Failing otherwise we gots us some trouble. We gots snake eyes. ;-)

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/08/jeremy-corbyn-momentum-group-moves-to-block-influence-of-hard-left-parties
Its an admission by the Labour party that there are extreme elements infiltrating it or have already done so, and trying to dictate its agenda. Those they are trying to exclude are still signed up members of the party , and can vote on party policies and elections.
As long as Corbyn leads the party you will have a hard time convincing people he is a moderate middle ground politician.
Its just insincere political window dressing.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
papasmurf
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tytoalba
Dec 10 2015, 09:52 AM

As long as Corbyn leads the party you will have a hard time convincing people he is a moderate middle ground politician.
He isn't, and no-one is stating he is.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ewill
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
Momentum has decided that office holders in the group must all be Labour members

Can't members of even darker shades of red factions also be members of the Labour party?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rich
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
papasmurf
Dec 10 2015, 08:48 AM
Rich
Dec 10 2015, 12:30 AM
Well thank you for taking your time Papa, I have just watched it again and guess what, that particular line appears to have been edited out,
No it hasn't, it was neither a Christman party or Momentum. It was a fundraiser for stop the war.
I stand corrected, it is to to with "stop the war", I have just listened to Andrew neil interviewing John Reid (now Lord Reid) at the end of this interview Mr Neil asked Lord Reid if he too was attending the same Christmas party as Mr Corbyn.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
[ *  *  *  * ]
Ewill
Dec 10 2015, 10:19 AM
Momentum has decided that office holders in the group must all be Labour members

Can't members of even darker shades of red factions also be members of the Labour party?
Not really unless you can prove otherwise.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
Ewill
Dec 10 2015, 10:19 AM
Momentum has decided that office holders in the group must all be Labour members

Can't members of even darker shades of red factions also be members of the Labour party?
If they have £3.00
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tytoalba
Dec 10 2015, 09:52 AM
skwirked
Dec 9 2015, 03:14 PM
Quote:
 
Momentum, the group set up to support Jeremy Corbyn inside the Labour party, is to draw up a code of conduct so that members of other parties will not be allowed to attend its decision-making meetings.

[...]

It would mean members of other leftwing parties such as Left Unity and the Communist party would not be allowed to attend its decision-making meetings. Momentum has decided that office holders in the group must all be Labour members and it is urgently preparing plans to develop a more democratic structure. [...] Tom Watson, the Labour deputy leader, said in a Twitter exchange on Monday night that Momentum had an entryist problem in some of its branches. [...] In a statement issued at lunchtime on Tuesday in the wake of the Guardian report, Momentum said the group had “sprung out of a desire to empower people not previously energised, to encourage those people to engage in debate and to organise on issues which affect them in their communities”.

The statement continued: “So we think it is right for Momentum to be seeking to work with coalitions and campaigning groups outside the Labour party nationally and locally.

“What we will not allow, and we don’t think our supporters will accept, is for our grassroots network to be used by other groups to push their agendas which have for decades been set against the Labour party and those members who have worked hard to get us to this position.”


On its Facebook page, Momentum added: “Alliances are a different thing – as we say, we will work with other groups and campaigns, but we can’t allow Momentum to be used as a vehicle for other parties. So if you are a member of the Socialist party, or the SWP, for instance, you cannot also be involved in decision making within Momentum.”


This must be awful news for the dim, tribal bottom-feeders; both right and left wing. How dare Corbyn actually sensibly govern Labour..he MUST BE SEEN to be Failing otherwise we gots us some trouble. We gots snake eyes. ;-)

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/08/jeremy-corbyn-momentum-group-moves-to-block-influence-of-hard-left-parties
Its an admission by the Labour party that there are extreme elements infiltrating it or have already done so, and trying to dictate its agenda. Those they are trying to exclude are still signed up members of the party , and can vote on party policies and elections.
As long as Corbyn leads the party you will have a hard time convincing people he is a moderate middle ground politician.
Its just insincere political window dressing.
It would be like attempting to prove black is really white. I really do not know why these people with obvious Marxist views wish to disguise them or hide them from view or dress them up with pink ribbons. When I was a lad Socialists were proud of their views and quick to point out what they stood for. Perhaps it is the shame of being associated with all those 20th C. Socialist experiments which ended up abusing citizens and in some cases impoverishing them. Now if the could find one good shining example of a success to pin their deep red ribbons on, maybe they would come out of the closets and say "look at me red to the core and I eat red Socialist meat I spit on you lilly livered Capitalists and your running dog whores". But that example is illusive.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
[ *  *  *  * ]
It might hèlp if one actually knew what a Marxist was. :rubchin:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rich
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
skwirked
Dec 10 2015, 03:33 PM
It might hèlp if one actually knew what a Marxist was. :rubchin:
Have a short listen to the following, it may answer your question, once upon a time I had no time for John Reid, listening to him now I would certainly read a biography of him if one were to be printed, he seems like a very interesting man as well as being a convert from Marxism.

The short clip begins at 32 minutes in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06s5ztk/daily-politics-10122015
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tytoalba
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
RJD
Dec 10 2015, 03:07 PM
Ewill
Dec 10 2015, 10:19 AM
Momentum has decided that office holders in the group must all be Labour members

Can't members of even darker shades of red factions also be members of the Labour party?
If they have £3.00
And for that you get quantity Never mind the quality, feel the width. :)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
RJD
Member Avatar
Prudence and Thrift
[ *  *  *  * ]
Tytoalba
Dec 10 2015, 03:48 PM
RJD
Dec 10 2015, 03:07 PM
Ewill
Dec 10 2015, 10:19 AM
Momentum has decided that office holders in the group must all be Labour members

Can't members of even darker shades of red factions also be members of the Labour party?
If they have £3.00
And for that you get quantity Never mind the quality, feel the width. :)
What would Labour want quality for? That would go against traditions.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
[ *  *  *  * ]
Rich
Dec 10 2015, 03:42 PM
skwirked
Dec 10 2015, 03:33 PM
It might hèlp if one actually knew what a Marxist was. :rubchin:
Have a short listen to the following, it may answer your question, once upon a time I had no time for John Reid, listening to him now I would certainly read a biography of him if one were to be printed, he seems like a very interesting man as well as being a convert from Marxism.

The short clip begins at 32 minutes in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06s5ztk/daily-politics-10122015
He's not actually a convert from Marxism, he makes that clear, not that he understands what it is to have an opinion either way but hey ho. And mine was an assertion that applies to many people here. :) Oh, and I am not a Marxist.

I'd like your definition of a Marxist though.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rich
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
skwirked
Dec 10 2015, 04:39 PM
Rich
Dec 10 2015, 03:42 PM
skwirked
Dec 10 2015, 03:33 PM
It might hèlp if one actually knew what a Marxist was. :rubchin:
Have a short listen to the following, it may answer your question, once upon a time I had no time for John Reid, listening to him now I would certainly read a biography of him if one were to be printed, he seems like a very interesting man as well as being a convert from Marxism.

The short clip begins at 32 minutes in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06s5ztk/daily-politics-10122015
He's not actually a convert from Marxism, he makes that clear, not that he understands what it is to have an opinion either way but hey ho. And mine was an assertion that applies to many people here. :) Oh, and I am not a Marxist.

I'd like your definition of a Marxist though.
I do not have one, I have never given the "ism" a second thought just as I feel the same about Islamism or any ism come to that, the here and now is what is happening and that is something that we can change, history is for readers, the future is for doers.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ewill
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
skwirked
Dec 10 2015, 02:46 PM
Ewill
Dec 10 2015, 10:19 AM
Momentum has decided that office holders in the group must all be Labour members

Can't members of even darker shades of red factions also be members of the Labour party?
Not really unless you can prove otherwise.
All the £3 members of all hues from the darkest red to the brightest blue prove it
Edited by Ewill, Dec 10 2015, 07:24 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
[ *  *  *  * ]
Sigh.

Did you not hear about the screening process and the masses of tories and hard lefties unceremoniously flecked off/their cash taken and not given back? Thought not.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ewill
Senior Member
[ *  *  *  * ]
skwirked
Dec 10 2015, 07:24 PM
Sigh.

Did you not hear about the screening process and the masses of tories and hard lefties unceremoniously flecked off/their cash taken and not given back? Thought not.
You think the so called ''screening'' stopped the non-names of any hue?

How naïve

!jk!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
skwirked
On Enforced Vacation
[ *  *  *  * ]
(shrug) We know it definitely worked because there were loads of complaints.

Do you have proof that it didn't work?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · Politics · Next Topic »
Add Reply