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So,who DID kill JFK ?
Topic Started: Apr 5 2016, 06:30 PM (741 Views)
Stonefish
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It's an oldie,but a goldie ,the biggest whodunnit in living and probably non living memory as well.

I looked at this fairly intensively some time ago,as I'm sure many of us have. I couldn't reach a deafinite conclusion and imo the perfect assassination as a result.There has never been a definitive result.

I certainly suspect FBI involvement ,I don't believe Lee Harvey was the only shooter,apart from that all bets are off.
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Affa
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Yeah; me too on the FBI thing. Black ops are not fiction only.
JFK not the only high profile victim IMO.



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Tigger
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No idea, there is so much contaminated information out there and JFK has almost become an industry, the only thing I'm certain of is we'll never know for sure, job done I suppose.
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Stonefish
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Tigger
Apr 5 2016, 08:10 PM
No idea, there is so much contaminated information out there and JFK has almost become an industry, the only thing I'm certain of is we'll never know for sure, job done I suppose.


I wouldn't call it contaminated,or at least if it is it is intentional,a perfect assassination.
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Tigger
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Stonefish
Apr 5 2016, 09:21 PM


I wouldn't call it contaminated,or at least if it is it is intentional,a perfect assassination.
It's become virtually impossible to sift fact from fiction, plus everyone even remotely connected to the incident has a book to sell.
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Steve K
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Stonefish
Apr 5 2016, 06:30 PM
It's an oldie,but a goldie ,the biggest whodunnit in living and probably non living memory as well.

I looked at this fairly intensively some time ago,as I'm sure many of us have. I couldn't reach a deafinite conclusion and imo the perfect assassination as a result.There has never been a definitive result.

I certainly suspect FBI involvement ,I don't believe Lee Harvey was the only shooter,apart from that all bets are off.
There's too much evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald was the killer.

If you want a credible conspiracy theory, it is arguable that his plan was known by the likes of the FBI beforehand and there was deliberate inaction to allow Oswald to carry out the killing of an unprotected JFK

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Curious Cdn
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LBJ. ... that's been my theory since I was old enough to hold one. ( No, he didn't pull the trigger. That could still be Oswald). He gained the most and he was a slippery bugger, by all accounts. His nickname was "Bull Johnson". The location of the assassination also fits the story.

By the the way, LBJ would fit right in to the current clown parade running for that esteemed office.
Edited by Curious Cdn, Apr 5 2016, 09:49 PM.
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Steve K
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Curious Cdn
Apr 5 2016, 09:42 PM
LBJ. ... that's been my theory since I was old enough to hold one. He gained the most and he was a slippery bugger, by all accounts.

By the the way, LBJ would fit right in to the current clown parade running for that esteemed office.
IIRC he has a cast iron alibi
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Curious Cdn
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Steve K
Apr 5 2016, 09:48 PM
Curious Cdn
Apr 5 2016, 09:42 PM
LBJ. ... that's been my theory since I was old enough to hold one. He gained the most and he was a slippery bugger, by all accounts.

By the the way, LBJ would fit right in to the current clown parade running for that esteemed office.
IIRC he has a cast iron alibi
He did not pull the trigger(obviously).Whoever diid, including Oswald, MUST have been a hired gun. Oswald was dead before he could say a peep.

BTW, I'm so old that I remember the day that Kennedy was assassinated ... and I was only in the second grade but I remember it distinctly. They were scary times. My older siblings were even being drilled to get under their school desks to escape the effects of a thermonuclear weapon.

Ahhh, the good, old days!
Edited by Curious Cdn, Apr 5 2016, 09:55 PM.
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Steve K
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Curious Cdn
Apr 5 2016, 09:50 PM
Steve K
Apr 5 2016, 09:48 PM
Curious Cdn
Apr 5 2016, 09:42 PM
LBJ. ... that's been my theory since I was old enough to hold one. He gained the most and he was a slippery bugger, by all accounts.

By the the way, LBJ would fit right in to the current clown parade running for that esteemed office.
IIRC he has a cast iron alibi
He did not pull the trigger(obviously).Whoever diid, including Oswald, MUST have been a hired gun. Oswald was dead before he could say a peep.

BTW, I'm so old that I remember the day that Kennedy was assassinated ... and I was only in the second grade but I remember it distinctly. They were scary times. My older siblings were even being drilled to get under their school desks to escape the effects of a thermonuclear weapon.

Ahhh, the good, old days!
LBJ was ruthless enough and had issues with Robert Kennedy but imho more likely that IF there were some FBI level conspiracy to give Oswald a free chance then they were just happy to have LBJ as the next man. There was no need to inform him.

Nor for LBJ to launch an assassination conspiracy as he knew enough about Robert Kennedy to have scuppered his 68 bid and imho LBJ would have waited til then to become president.

Hoover would be prime suspect IF there was a conspiracy.

It's worth remembering that Oswald was a right odd case who in effect went out of his way to get arrested and would never have killed Officer Tippit if he thought himself innocent.

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Curious Cdn
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Steve K
Apr 5 2016, 10:34 PM
Curious Cdn
Apr 5 2016, 09:50 PM
Steve K
Apr 5 2016, 09:48 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
He did not pull the trigger(obviously).Whoever diid, including Oswald, MUST have been a hired gun. Oswald was dead before he could say a peep.

BTW, I'm so old that I remember the day that Kennedy was assassinated ... and I was only in the second grade but I remember it distinctly. They were scary times. My older siblings were even being drilled to get under their school desks to escape the effects of a thermonuclear weapon.

Ahhh, the good, old days!
LBJ was ruthless enough and had issues with Robert Kennedy but imho more likely that IF there were some FBI level conspiracy to give Oswald a free chance then they were just happy to have LBJ as the next man. There was no need to inform him.

Nor for LBJ to launch an assassination conspiracy as he knew enough about Robert Kennedy to have scuppered his 68 bid and imho LBJ would have waited til then to become president.

Hoover would be prime suspect IF there was a conspiracy.

It's worth remembering that Oswald was a right odd case who in effect went out of his way to get arrested and would never have killed Officer Tippit if he thought himself innocent.

The KGB are just as likely assassins as the CIA or FBI, given the history of the times. They had lots of practice, too.
Edited by Curious Cdn, Apr 5 2016, 10:51 PM.
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Rich
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Curious Cdn
Apr 5 2016, 10:49 PM
Steve K
Apr 5 2016, 10:34 PM
Curious Cdn
Apr 5 2016, 09:50 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
LBJ was ruthless enough and had issues with Robert Kennedy but imho more likely that IF there were some FBI level conspiracy to give Oswald a free chance then they were just happy to have LBJ as the next man. There was no need to inform him.

Nor for LBJ to launch an assassination conspiracy as he knew enough about Robert Kennedy to have scuppered his 68 bid and imho LBJ would have waited til then to become president.

Hoover would be prime suspect IF there was a conspiracy.

It's worth remembering that Oswald was a right odd case who in effect went out of his way to get arrested and would never have killed Officer Tippit if he thought himself innocent.

The KGB are just as likely assassins as the CIA or FBI, given the history of the times. They had lots of practice, too.
Sorry to be a fly in the ointment, but is there any real benefit to discussing this often debated unprovable theory/ies? I have no objection whatsoever but it would be nice if someone can come up with some new and irrefutable evidence that will merit such discourse.
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Curious Cdn
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It was Colonel Mustard on the Grassy knoll with a Lead Candlestick.
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Affa
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What prevents assassinations?
The knowledge that those authorising it could be next!

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Stonefish
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Steve K
Apr 5 2016, 09:32 PM
Stonefish
Apr 5 2016, 06:30 PM
It's an oldie,but a goldie ,the biggest whodunnit in living and probably non living memory as well.

I looked at this fairly intensively some time ago,as I'm sure many of us have. I couldn't reach a deafinite conclusion and imo the perfect assassination as a result.There has never been a definitive result.

I certainly suspect FBI involvement ,I don't believe Lee Harvey was the only shooter,apart from that all bets are off.
There's too much evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald was the killer.

If you want a credible conspiracy theory, it is arguable that his plan was known by the likes of the FBI beforehand and there was deliberate inaction to allow Oswald to carry out the killing of an unprotected JFK



The problem with LHO being the killer is that afaik he was a very average shot and the sights on his rifle were misaligned. If that's the case how did he manage such a shot.and it does appear there was more than one shooter,either and or on the grassy knoll or the bridge.There was certainly more than one shot fired,when you watch the film in slow mo,you clearly see JFK slump,where his wife notices and then frankly a second or two later the top front of his head just comes away.

I also seem to remember thinking Hoover may have been the puppet master. one of the reasons being JFK was in the process of seriously reducing the funding etc of the FBI
Edited by Stonefish, Apr 6 2016, 02:17 AM.
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Malum Unus
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Yes, there's plenty of evidence that Oswald fired the first two 'wounding' shots, but the third kill-shot was clearly fired from a different direction (unless physics decided to take a vacation that day) and most likely with a different weapon... One loaded with hollow-points.
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Cymru
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Oswald was involved, with others.

Oswald wasn't the main guy, and he ended up being the convenient, albeit unaware and unwilling, fall guy for those higher up in the conspiracy.

When trying to determine who was behind it all the best thing to do is ask "who benefited the most from it?"
Edited by Cymru, Apr 6 2016, 10:31 AM.
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HIGHWAY
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I am surprised Maggie Thatcher hasn't been blamed yet.
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Ewill
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HIGHWAY
Apr 6 2016, 09:12 AM
I am surprised Maggie Thatcher hasn't been blamed yet.
!jk! !jk!
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Steve K
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Ewill
Apr 6 2016, 09:32 AM
HIGHWAY
Apr 6 2016, 09:12 AM
I am surprised Maggie Thatcher hasn't been blamed yet.
!jk! !jk!
Basil Brush may have had a hand in it
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Curious Cdn
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Cymru
Apr 6 2016, 08:35 AM
Oswald was involved, with others.

Oswald wasn't the main guy, and he ended up being the convenient, albeit unaware and unwilling, fall guy for those higher up in the conspiracy.

When trying to determine who was behind it all the best thing to do is ask "who benefited the most from it?"
As I said earlier, LBJ.
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The Buccaneer
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Like one or two others here, I'm also old enough to remember the day Kennedy was shot.

There was a very interesting TV prog a couple of years ago where a forensic detective managed to get hold of Kennedy's skull and compare the bullet hole with one from LHO's rifle, they didn't mattch, and also the trajectory was slightly UPWARD to its exit.

This guy worked out that the sectret service people in the following car had a weapon whose bullets did match the one which killed him, and that one of them in responding to the shots fired by LHO, accidentally fired it and killed Kennedy.

I thought it entirely plausible, and still do.
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Curious Cdn
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The Buccaneer
Apr 6 2016, 03:23 PM
Like one or two others here, I'm also old enough to remember the day Kennedy was shot.

There was a very interesting TV prog a couple of years ago where a forensic detective managed to get hold of Kennedy's skull and compare the bullet hole with one from LHO's rifle, they didn't mattch, and also the trajectory was slightly UPWARD to its exit.

This guy worked out that the sectret service people in the following car had a weapon whose bullets did match the one which killed him, and that one of them in responding to the shots fired by LHO, accidentally fired it and killed Kennedy.

I thought it entirely plausible, and still do.
A shoot-em-up hail of bullets going to and fro is the sort of pure Americana that most of them seem to dream about.

[see:Mythology of Dodge City].
Edited by Curious Cdn, Apr 6 2016, 10:43 PM.
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Oddball
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Malum Unus
Apr 6 2016, 08:20 AM
Yes, there's plenty of evidence that Oswald fired the first two 'wounding' shots, but the third kill-shot was clearly fired from a different direction (unless physics decided to take a vacation that day) and most likely with a different weapon... One loaded with hollow-points.
Isn't it also the case that one of the bullet cases left near the depository window was of a different caliber and type? I am also intrigued by the various 'grassy knoll' accounts.

Kennedy certainly had a number of heavyweight detractors; even that transvestite [enjoyed wearing frilly knickers under his working clobber] J Edgar Hoover seriously disliked him and his brother, Robert.
Edited by Oddball, Apr 7 2016, 08:43 AM.
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Stonefish
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU83R7rpXQY&feature=player_detailpage
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Oddball
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Stonefish
Apr 7 2016, 09:29 AM
Yup, from that last hit and Kennedy's impact reaction it appears as if the 'grassy knoll' shot was the 'coup de gras'. I have even heard that a couple of gunmen/hitmen that may have been positioned around the 'knoll' ended up shortly afterwards holed up in Marseilles.
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marybrown
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Oddball
Apr 7 2016, 09:38 AM
Stonefish
Apr 7 2016, 09:29 AM
Yup, from that last hit and Kennedy's impact reaction it appears as if the 'grassy knoll' shot was the 'coup de gras'. I have even heard that a couple of gunmen/hitmen that may have been positioned around the 'knoll' ended up shortly afterwards holed up in Marseilles.
Yes...Mesrine was killed in a hail of Bullets..however I don't think we will ever know who killed JFK..it may have to go into the ''Jack the Ripper'' files
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Jessamy Bride
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Quote:
 
managed to get hold of Kennedy's skull and compare the bullet hole with one from LHO's rifle


Eww...Whats wrong with these people. If I have to see Kennedy's brains flying across that car again... I'm going to be sick.

The man was President FFS ...Where is his respect and dignity.

Its just a free-for-all for every tin hat nutter and gore-gobbler on the continent.
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Stonefish
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Jessamy Bride
Apr 7 2016, 05:31 PM
Quote:
 
managed to get hold of Kennedy's skull and compare the bullet hole with one from LHO's rifle


Eww...Whats wrong with these people. If I have to see Kennedy's brains flying across that car again... I'm going to be sick.

The man was President FFS ...Where is his respect and dignity.

Its just a free-for-all for every tin hat nutter and gore-gobbler on the continent.


it's about finding the conclusion to a riddle,granted the film is disturbing ,but its important.

And no I don't think we on here will find the answers that would be absurd,but its an important subject
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Steve K
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Jessamy Bride
Apr 7 2016, 05:31 PM
Quote:
 
managed to get hold of Kennedy's skull and compare the bullet hole with one from LHO's rifle


Eww...Whats wrong with these people. If I have to see Kennedy's brains flying across that car again... I'm going to be sick.

The man was President FFS ...Where is his respect and dignity.

Its just a free-for-all for every tin hat nutter and gore-gobbler on the continent.
Well said ^

There is something rather disturbing about obsessionist conspiracy theorists so determined to find some inside story that they'll swallow and repeat any old garbage on the web and never look for pre existing rebuttal.

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Rich
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Steve K
Apr 7 2016, 10:10 PM
Jessamy Bride
Apr 7 2016, 05:31 PM
Quote:
 
managed to get hold of Kennedy's skull and compare the bullet hole with one from LHO's rifle


Eww...Whats wrong with these people. If I have to see Kennedy's brains flying across that car again... I'm going to be sick.

The man was President FFS ...Where is his respect and dignity.

Its just a free-for-all for every tin hat nutter and gore-gobbler on the continent.
Well said ^

There is something rather disturbing about obsessionist conspiracy theorists so determined to find some inside story that they'll swallow and repeat any old garbage on the web and never look for pre existing rebuttal.

For me personally, it is much like the bible, neither side of the debate can prove their theories, best to let sleeping dogs lie than to argue over an intractable point.
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Stonefish
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Rich
Apr 7 2016, 10:15 PM
Steve K
Apr 7 2016, 10:10 PM
Jessamy Bride
Apr 7 2016, 05:31 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Well said ^

There is something rather disturbing about obsessionist conspiracy theorists so determined to find some inside story that they'll swallow and repeat any old garbage on the web and never look for pre existing rebuttal.

For me personally, it is much like the bible, neither side of the debate can prove their theories, best to let sleeping dogs lie than to argue over an intractable point.


That could stifle debate on a hell of a lot of subjects.

Should we not debate the forthcoming referendum then because neither side can prove their point ?
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Rich
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Stonefish
Apr 7 2016, 10:25 PM
Rich
Apr 7 2016, 10:15 PM
Steve K
Apr 7 2016, 10:10 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
For me personally, it is much like the bible, neither side of the debate can prove their theories, best to let sleeping dogs lie than to argue over an intractable point.


That could stifle debate on a hell of a lot of subjects.

Should we not debate the forthcoming referendum then because neither side can prove their point ?
But surely, if neither side can prove anything, what is the point of wasting time, at least with the EU referendum I am voting with my own personal experience of the EU, I do not need a politician especially those that would be better off selling second hand cars telling me that I am incapable of making a balanced decision, if people do not believe what they (politicians) say then they have only themselves to blame.
Edited by Rich, Apr 7 2016, 10:38 PM.
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Malum Unus
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The thing I find most disturbing about any major conspiracy theory is the sheer number of people willing to swallow the official government line and completely ignore anything else which might threaten that certainty and are even willing to parrot so called 'facts' again and again.

Like with the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes, people still bring up the baggy coat he was wearing, the rucksack he was carrying and that he ran from the police and leaped the ticket barrier... Despite all of the above being show to have been made up by the police.

Doesn't stop people repeating it though.
Edited by Malum Unus, Apr 7 2016, 11:51 PM.
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Stonefish
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Malum Unus
Apr 7 2016, 11:43 PM
The thing I find most disturbing about any major conspiracy theory is the sheer number of people willing to swallow the official government line and completely ignore anything else which might threaten that certainty and are even willing to parrot so called 'facts' again and again.

Like with the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes, people still bring up the baggy coat he was wearing, the rucksack he was carrying and that he ran from the police and leaped the ticket barrier... Despite all of the above being show to have been made up by the police.

Doesn't stop people repeating it though.


I knew a plain clothes cop who was involved in that case and he told me the guy had electrical wire coming out of his clothes,i never saw that mentioned anywhere.

In any case i don't blame police for what happened,it was a tragic accident at the end of the day
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HIGHWAY
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Stonefish
Apr 8 2016, 02:38 AM
Malum Unus
Apr 7 2016, 11:43 PM
The thing I find most disturbing about any major conspiracy theory is the sheer number of people willing to swallow the official government line and completely ignore anything else which might threaten that certainty and are even willing to parrot so called 'facts' again and again.

Like with the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes, people still bring up the baggy coat he was wearing, the rucksack he was carrying and that he ran from the police and leaped the ticket barrier... Despite all of the above being show to have been made up by the police.

Doesn't stop people repeating it though.


I knew a plain clothes cop who was involved in that case and he told me the guy had electrical wire coming out of his clothes,i never saw that mentioned anywhere.

In any case i don't blame police for what happened,it was a tragic accident at the end of the day
How can you accidentally shoot someone several times in the head.
Rubbish the cops made a mistake plain and simple.
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Malum Unus
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HIGHWAY
Apr 8 2016, 06:54 AM
Stonefish
Apr 8 2016, 02:38 AM
Malum Unus
Apr 7 2016, 11:43 PM
The thing I find most disturbing about any major conspiracy theory is the sheer number of people willing to swallow the official government line and completely ignore anything else which might threaten that certainty and are even willing to parrot so called 'facts' again and again.

Like with the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes, people still bring up the baggy coat he was wearing, the rucksack he was carrying and that he ran from the police and leaped the ticket barrier... Despite all of the above being show to have been made up by the police.

Doesn't stop people repeating it though.


I knew a plain clothes cop who was involved in that case and he told me the guy had electrical wire coming out of his clothes,i never saw that mentioned anywhere.

In any case i don't blame police for what happened,it was a tragic accident at the end of the day
How can you accidentally shoot someone several times in the head.
Rubbish the cops made a mistake plain and simple.
Just like the following 'accident'.

"He fell out of a Gestapo car, over a bridge, and onto a railway line. Then was run over by the Berlin Express... It was an Accident."
- Herr Flick, Allo Allo.
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C-too
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Rich
Apr 7 2016, 10:37 PM
Stonefish
Apr 7 2016, 10:25 PM
Rich
Apr 7 2016, 10:15 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep


That could stifle debate on a hell of a lot of subjects.

Should we not debate the forthcoming referendum then because neither side can prove their point ?
But surely, if neither side can prove anything, what is the point of wasting time, at least with the EU referendum I am voting with my own personal experience of the EU, I do not need a politician especially those that would be better off selling second hand cars telling me that I am incapable of making a balanced decision, if people do not believe what they (politicians) say then they have only themselves to blame.
How much research have you done in order to reach your "balanced" position ?

I remember one woman making a phone-in comment on the Jimmy Young radio show where she totally condemned the millennium dome, when asked if she had visited it she said no, I wouldn't go near the place, I've read about in the press ? doh: -- :'(

The power of the press ? :)
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Jus
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If Lee Harvey Oswald didn't shoot JFK my Arse is a Fire Engine. Conspiracy theories usually fall down on Too Many People would have to know logic. You couldn't get a better example of this fundamental truth than this bloody episode in our history. If you think the FBI did for him then you're nuts.
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Steve K
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Jus
Apr 17 2016, 05:36 PM
If Lee Harvey Oswald didn't shoot JFK my Arse is a Fire Engine. Conspiracy theories usually fall down on Too Many People would have to know logic. You couldn't get a better example of this fundamental truth than this bloody episode in our history. If you think the FBI did for him then you're nuts.
:thumbsup:

and !clp! for "my Arse is a Fire Engine" that one will get re-used. You should have copyrighted it, think of the royalties
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