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| What to do with Haiti. | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 9 2016, 10:37 AM (273 Views) | |
| Rich | Oct 9 2016, 10:37 AM Post #1 |
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Yet again, mother nature has taken it's toll on this small place on the world map in the Caribbean, first the Earthquake, now Hurricane Matthew, the UK has immediately promised £5 million in aid. It seems to me that even after a couple of hundred years the place is mainly composed of shanty towns which are obviously not impervious to adverse weather conditions. How much aid has Haiti received over the years, what has this aid acheived? where has it gone to? Should the French be doing much (are they doing anything) more to alleviate the suffering and misery? The following report is 6 years old but I still see no meaningful input from France or am I being too critical? https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/aug/16/haiti-france To my mind, money is no good at the present time, aid should be in the form of expertise, send technicians, engineers, builders, irrigation specialists, sanitary system specialists (Cholera has already surfaced again) clean water and staple foods, farmers to teach them how to grow food in non monsoon/hurricane seasons, foresters to replant the land after 60 odd years of deforestaion to prevent landslides. And then hand over the finished project which may take a decade to implement and say to the Haitians, there, you are now up and running, look after your country as this will not happen again and hopefully they can elect a governing body that WILL act in the best interests of Haiti. I will wake up to reality in a minute.
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| Steve K | Oct 9 2016, 11:07 AM Post #2 |
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Once and future cynic
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Remember that it was the United Nations that vested Cholera on Haiti. |
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| Curious Cdn | Oct 9 2016, 01:07 PM Post #3 |
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The other side of the same island is in rather better condition. There is no special magic about the Dominican Republic. It isn't exactly Dubai, either. They are a hell of a lot beter organized than their neighbour, as is everyone else around Haiti. There was no special colonisl exploitation visited upon Haiti. They were one of the first in the region to gain independance. The big failing there is the inability of the Haitians themselves to get smarter. Money into a bottomless pit of corruption: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_aid_to_Haiti Edited by Curious Cdn, Oct 9 2016, 01:34 PM.
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| Tigger | Oct 9 2016, 05:24 PM Post #4 |
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Yeah, fuck em, they live in a hot country why should they have any of our money? A far more economical use of words than in the OP. |
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| Rich | Oct 9 2016, 05:29 PM Post #5 |
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Since you have asked the question, perhaps you would care to answer it. |
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| Tigger | Oct 9 2016, 05:31 PM Post #6 |
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I don't begrudge giving people with virtually fuck all the basics to survive. Yourself?
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| Rich | Oct 9 2016, 08:21 PM Post #7 |
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Me neither, but giving them hard cash has obviously been proven to do no good which is why I suggested that they be given aid in kind which corrupt governmental officials cannot get their hands on. Do you have a problem with my suggestion?...if so, please explain why. And furthermore, why did you make a silly perverse first comment to the opposite of what you really meant, who were you seeking to impress with your silly sarcasm? I am afraid little one liners which seem to be your stock in trade do not make for good debating, I would suggest that if you are unable to advocate anything sensible then maybe it would be best if you said nothing at all. Edited by Rich, Oct 9 2016, 08:25 PM.
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| Steve K | Oct 9 2016, 08:48 PM Post #8 |
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Once and future cynic
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Perhaps Rich you forgot that it takes hard cash to make that suggestion of yours become a reality And maybe you could give some evidence that to any real extent anyone is trying to plea for hard cash to be sent to Haiti. Can you? |
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| Tigger | Oct 9 2016, 09:13 PM Post #9 |
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It's well known on here that you begrudge sending money abroad, any money, I sometimes get the impression you'd rather see wogs die than have to tolerate any potential corruption or bad organisation that inevitably goes on when people in poor countries are suffering. I'm less concerned about that when human lives are at risk, save people and ask questions later, it's the decent and humane thing to do. Hopefully that explains my position.
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| Rich | Oct 9 2016, 09:55 PM Post #10 |
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Well, I course I cannot do that, but the fact remains that the Haitians are in shit street through no fault of their own, meanwhile, the immediately attached next door neighbour of the Dominican Republic remains relatively unscathed. Are they going to offer the Haitians help? it does not look like it to me, are the French....forget that chance straight away, therefore it befalls those countries that can and are willing to, to offer assistance, but, and I re iterate, it should be aid in the form of expertise and not hard cash as that has not improved the Haitians situation one iota as can be evidently seen, there is no investment going into the country in the form of businesses that can start to build an infrastructure suited to the local environment. Once again, where is the UN when it is most needed....it is to fucking busy choosing a new leader that does not have the time to worry about a dot on the map. |
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| Tigger | Oct 9 2016, 10:00 PM Post #11 |
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Have you bothered to check out the validity of this clearly xenophobic statement? The French have most certainly helped out in the past as have many other nations. |
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| Steve K | Oct 9 2016, 10:26 PM Post #12 |
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Once and future cynic
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Do you ever pre check any of this hate ridden shite you throw out? Do you hate foreigners that much that they must never be given a fair break and must always be maligned first, fact checked rarely and never apologised to? The UN is already there, the UN has already allocated $millions but that does not mean more help isn't needed. Perhaps you forgot the UN has no tax raising powers, it assumes the world has many decent minded people. http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=55245#.V_rDIeUrJ0s As for the Dominican Republic you know little about their financial woes and the reasons the island is two countries not one. |
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| Curious Cdn | Oct 10 2016, 01:24 AM Post #13 |
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Canada has given Haiti one billion dollars since 2006. We are certainly not alone, either. The net effects are swollen secret bank accounts all over the globe and the same old, dirt poor Haitians. Edited by Curious Cdn, Oct 10 2016, 01:25 AM.
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| Oddball | Oct 10 2016, 08:13 AM Post #14 |
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Rather than constantly having to give such countries 'fish', I would much prefer to teach them how to 'fish', but in many instances and for many reasons, including their own cultures and mindsets, this appears close to impossible. It is also ironic that the countries least able to afford/support large families, are those that have them. 'Am I my brother's keeper - it seems so.' Edited by Oddball, Oct 10 2016, 08:48 AM.
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| Rich | Oct 10 2016, 09:49 AM Post #15 |
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Which is why they need "expertise" as opposed to hard cash, they need those with the know how to lead them by the hand and show them how to build their society into something resembling a decent place to live and thrive as they are quite obviously unable to do that for themselves. Believe me, all the money on the planet will not change their situation as it stands, they need a self supporting infastructure put in place so that they can build on that and improve it as they go along and decent sturdy buildings that can at least withstand moderate storms (nobody can make contingency for catastrophic weather conditions) there is so much that could be done to help without the need for hard cash going to secret bank accounts. |
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| Curious Cdn | Oct 10 2016, 11:59 AM Post #16 |
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I hate to say it but they need to be occupied by some imperial power to save themselves from themselves. Who knows who would want them? Maybe, they can become an E.U. protectorate? Edited by Curious Cdn, Oct 10 2016, 11:59 AM.
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| RoofGardener | Oct 10 2016, 12:29 PM Post #17 |
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Lord of Plantpots
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DID Canada give Haiti one billion dollars ? Or did it give it to the NGO's and "bought-in" construction companies ? |
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| Curious Cdn | Oct 10 2016, 02:33 PM Post #18 |
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Canada has been pumping money into Haiti for most of my 60 year life. Some has been direct food, medical aid, field hospitals, indirect aid to NGOs, church aid, etc, etc. ... no military aid, to my knowledge (thank God). Our illusrious guvvermint even uses Haiti for propaganda purposes: http://www.international.gc.ca/development-developpement/countries-pays/haiti.aspx?lang=eng |
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| Rich | Oct 10 2016, 02:48 PM Post #19 |
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If we accept the premise that "brought in construction companies" were used, would it be fair to say that it was those people that built the shanty towns and homes with corrugated tin roofs?...if not, what exactly did they build? As I understand it aid trucks cannot move around as what they term as roads are nothing more than dirt tracks which are now quagmires,....again, exactly what have these construction companies built? |
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| johnofgwent | Oct 10 2016, 06:12 PM Post #20 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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https://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-red-cross-raised-half-a-billion-dollars-for-haiti-and-built-6-homes I don't know what to do with the place, but i found the above an interesting read. |
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| Deleted User | Oct 10 2016, 06:27 PM Post #21 |
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I read after the last earthquake in Haiti that there was plenty NGO officials driving around in 4x4s but little being done, Money seems to evaporate in secret bank accounts ( as has been said). I doubt that there are many competent and honest Haitian administrators because there has never been much of a need for them. The governments have been corrupt and any workers or labour based organisations that demanded an even shake for the common man have been crushed. Dystopias dont get to be decent places to live by cash alone apparently. As for the Domincan,,ffs. I went there on holiday a few years ago. It was a great complex , clean and the service was great ( the only thing that spoilt it was the yanks waving dollars at the waiters..they didnt seem to understand the concept 'all inclusive'). Anyway, it was great until we left the complex to go to another complex. The roads were shit,the houses were shacks and the people lived in abject poverty. |
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| Rich | Oct 10 2016, 06:47 PM Post #22 |
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Nicely found JOG, please file under propaganda and the reason why I do not donate personally to any charity, and yet people still question the morals of my opening post. |
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| Tigger | Oct 10 2016, 08:09 PM Post #23 |
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We know what your "morals" are, essentially you hate foreigners and the darker or poorer the more you hate
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| Steve K | Oct 10 2016, 08:19 PM Post #24 |
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Once and future cynic
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enough of the ad homs.
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enough of the ad homs.

2:48 PM Jul 11