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USA Presidential Election; Combined two topics
Topic Started: Oct 30 2016, 09:58 AM (2,279 Views)
Tytoalba
Senior Member
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For weeks, BBC News along with channel four news and ITV news, along with our own luvvies, and some newspapers, including the Daily Mail have ben ridiculing Donald trump, the right wing candidate for the presidency of the USA.
There was very little criticism of Hillary Clinton and her policies. It was always unwise fore the British People , News broadcasters and Newspapers to take sides on this issue, for it seems that Clinton has fallen at the last hurdle, or at least been severely hurt but the current reporting of her wrong doings. We still do not know what the result will be, and of course we have no say in the outcome, a good reason to remain neutral . This could be a lesson to us all to remain objective, and nail our colours to the mast.
Events can make fools of us all.
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Tytoalba
Nov 1 2016, 11:01 AM
Steve K
Nov 1 2016, 10:53 AM
Tytoalba
Nov 1 2016, 10:49 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Oh look diversion ^

No one has objected to investigation, that's a false line you are pursuing. Can you tell us why you so do?
They are just open questions not statements of fact. Whats the problem?
Your continual misrepresentation

Perhaps you are too dim to realise that when you prefix a question with "Do those who object to the investigation " you are making an assertion

But I think not that you are dim, looks like you making a deliberate attempt to mislead

Go on tell us all just who are these who "object to the investigation"

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Tytoalba
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Steve K
Nov 1 2016, 11:04 AM
Tytoalba
Nov 1 2016, 10:58 AM
Steve K
Nov 1 2016, 10:39 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
How can it be done any other way Steve when you have a free press and investigative journalists with open ears.? If there is truth in the allegations wouldn't it be wrong not to announce them just as it would be if they were found not to be? The reality of ,what is, has to be faced. This is not going to stop after the election, no matter who is elected.
And there we were thinking you were experienced in police matters

You get the warrant to search Weiner's PC and you search it. IF and only IF you find new evidence relating to another matter do you make such a public announcement in favour of your political party colleague
Has he made the announcement or was it dragged out of him or reported by someone else. Do you know?
There are always someone who will divulge something they are not meant to do , with some times a deliberate leak .Don't alleged rapists get charged and identified to get others to come forward but without there being a conviction Perhaps those who made the allegation broadcast it. Nothing is simple any more and your idealism is not reflected by everyone else. The allegations have been in existence for some time but now it seems here is new evidence. How can that be hushed up?

How many more days to go?
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Tytoalba
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Further to How many thousands of E mails are on the computer that need to be read and investigated?
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C-too
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Tytoalba
Nov 1 2016, 10:07 AM
C-too
Oct 31 2016, 11:45 PM
Tytoalba
Oct 31 2016, 11:34 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
There is apparently a law that prohibits statements by the FBI from making ongoing investigations public at a time when it can interfere with an election.

If so, your 'once again' reasoning in an attempt to defend things to your own satisfaction, is wrong.
What matters is what is to the satisfaction of the American people and who they vote for. My feelings and opinions don't count. Nor do yours so it is not a personal thing in my case.
Correct but that doesn't stop people commenting on the issue.

One factor that hasn't been commented on is that it was concluded and commented on TV that Thatcher's period in office had a lot to do with the female vote. The female vote in the US elections may well be the deciding factor in a Clinton victory.
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Steve K
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Tytoalba
Nov 1 2016, 11:21 AM
Has he made the announcement or was it dragged out of him or reported by someone else. Do you know? . .
Yes, everyone in the world knows - well seems except you. But you'll continue to post big statements in ignorance. Here have a read:

Posted Image


Are you really surprised so many find debating with you distasteful?

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C-too
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Tytoalba
Nov 1 2016, 11:23 AM
Further to How many thousands of E mails are on the computer that need to be read and investigated?
Apparently the FBI had already gone through thousands of Clinton's Emails and found nothing wrong.
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Tytoalba
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Steve K
Nov 1 2016, 11:36 AM
Tytoalba
Nov 1 2016, 11:21 AM
Has he made the announcement or was it dragged out of him or reported by someone else. Do you know? . .
Yes, everyone in the world knows - well seems except you. But you'll continue to post big statements in ignorance. Here have a read:

Posted Image


Are you really surprised so many find debating with you distasteful?

Then don't Simples. What they don't seem to like is the other side of the coin. I shall continue in my own sweet way
unless you intend to censor me.

Its no my fault that I end up on the winning side and those complaining on the losing . !wav!
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Tytoalba
Senior Member
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Tytoalba
Nov 1 2016, 11:55 AM
Steve K
Nov 1 2016, 11:36 AM
Tytoalba
Nov 1 2016, 11:21 AM
Has he made the announcement or was it dragged out of him or reported by someone else. Do you know? . .
Yes, everyone in the world knows - well seems except you. But you'll continue to post big statements in ignorance. Here have a read:

Posted Image


Are you really surprised so many find debating with you distasteful?

Then don't Simples. What they don't seem to like is the other side of the coin. I shall continue in my own sweet way
unless you intend to censor me.

Its no my fault that I end up on the winning side and those complaining on the losing . !wav!
Doesn't that letter specify the reasons why he needed to further investigate the allegations. ? A yes or No will do. Did he have a choice?

img]https://lawfare.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/staging/2016/Comey%20Letter.JPG[/img]
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RoofGardener
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Umm... do I understand this correctly ?

The Director of the FBI wrote to the chairs of several Congressional Committees in relation to an issue that he had already given testimony on, pointing out that the issue had a new development ?

He didn't hold a press conference about it or anything, he just informed the chairs of the various Congressional Committees ? And THEY then 'leaked' this to the media ?

Is that what happened ? Do I understand it correctly ? Because if so I'm struggling to understand why he is being criticised ?
Edited by RoofGardener, Nov 1 2016, 12:30 PM.
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Steve K
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Tytoalba
Nov 1 2016, 12:00 PM
Tytoalba
Nov 1 2016, 11:55 AM
Then don't Simples. What they don't seem to like is the other side of the coin. I shall continue in my own sweet way
unless you intend to censor me.

Its no my fault that I end up on the winning side and those complaining on the losing . !wav!
Doesn't that letter specify the reasons why he needed to further investigate the allegations. ? A yes or No will do. Did he have a choice?
Yes you have a perfect right to dribble your false points on here and I have a right to challenge them as such

Unfortunately you do from time to time affect the persona of a pig ignorant extremist and that's what is distasteful. It is of course trolling to so affect but rather than censor I prefer to point it out for what it is

The point at hand as you full well know but are pretending otherwise is the announcement and not the investigation which is of course needed

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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Nov 1 2016, 12:29 PM
Umm... do I understand this correctly ?

The Director of the FBI wrote to the chairs of several Congressional Committees in relation to an issue that he had already given testimony on, pointing out that the issue had a new development ?

He didn't hold a press conference about it or anything, he just informed the chairs of the various Congressional Committees ? And THEY then 'leaked' this to the media ?

Is that what happened ? Do I understand it correctly ? Because if so I'm struggling to understand why he is being criticised ?
Yes he wrote that letter to a significant number of Republican politicians with the obvious results he wanted

Or are we supposed to believe the head of the FBI, a known Republican supporter, was too thick to realise that.

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RoofGardener
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Lord of Plantpots
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Did he write to any Republicans who where NOT chairs of the Committees that he had recently testified to regarding the 'HillaryMail' investigation ?
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Steve K
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RoofGardener
Nov 1 2016, 01:52 PM
Did he write to any Republicans who where NOT chairs of the Committees that he had recently testified to regarding the 'HillaryMail' investigation ?
I doubt it

Any more specious points?
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Tigger
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Affa
Nov 1 2016, 10:34 AM

Does hypocrisy not bother you?

You do not hold such high standards of duty and obligation here fore the miners at Orgreave.
:thumbsup:


Hard not to giggle sometimes!
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Tytoalba
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Steve K
Nov 1 2016, 12:33 PM
Tytoalba
Nov 1 2016, 12:00 PM
Tytoalba
Nov 1 2016, 11:55 AM
Then don't Simples. What they don't seem to like is the other side of the coin. I shall continue in my own sweet way
unless you intend to censor me.

Its no my fault that I end up on the winning side and those complaining on the losing . !wav!
Doesn't that letter specify the reasons why he needed to further investigate the allegations. ? A yes or No will do. Did he have a choice?
Yes you have a perfect right to dribble your false points on here and I have a right to challenge them as such

Unfortunately you do from time to time affect the persona of a pig ignorant extremist and that's what is distasteful. It is of course trolling to so affect but rather than censor I prefer to point it out for what it is

The point at hand as you full well know but are pretending otherwise is the announcement and not the investigation which is of course needed

Why have I become your target for your insults and what is your purpose in telling me? Is this the start of a policy of first demonising your enemy o try and close down their free speech or just your means of releasing your own frustrations Is it you just telling me or is it a hope that others will agree with you and is it really necessary . Is it even against the rules of engagement on this board over which you personally have some control. Now that you have got it out of your system lets move on for what you see is what you will get, pig ignorant extremist or not.{ You don't think calling someone pig ignorant and extremist is itself pig ignorant and extreme on a public message board like this}
Have I expressed any opinion in similar vein to yourself Would you like me to, for it is so easily done, but serves no useful function other than sending the standards on this board southwards.

Now back to the announcement, and the letter posted by yourself indicating that there is a case to be answered. I see no reason why the letter should not have been penned, and I fully understand why it was put in the public domain. We can disagree on that in a civilised and courteous manner over a personal POV, and agreeing is not obligatory.
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RoofGardener
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Lord of Plantpots
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Steve K
Nov 1 2016, 01:53 PM
RoofGardener
Nov 1 2016, 01:52 PM
Did he write to any Republicans who where NOT chairs of the Committees that he had recently testified to regarding the 'HillaryMail' investigation ?
I doubt it

Any more specious points?
Oh yes... OOODLES.  !bgrin!

I don't think it was specious. Your post kinda implied that the FBI Director had deliberately sent his letter to Republicans, with a secondary implication that it was - therefore - a deliberate attempt to embarrass Hilary Clinton by targeting the letter at her political rivals. (not that she needs any outside assistance when it comes to embarrassing herself).

My point is that his letter - or rather the people he sent it to - seemed entirely appropriate, insofar as I understand US judicial oversight processes. If a Senator leaked it, then the opprobrium should surely be directed at that Senator rather than the FBI bod ?

Edited by RoofGardener, Nov 1 2016, 02:51 PM.
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Steve K
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Tytoalba
Nov 1 2016, 02:33 PM
Why have I become your target for your insults and what is your purpose in telling me? Is this the start of a policy of first demonising your enemy o try and close down their free speech or just your means of releasing your own frustrations Is it you just telling me or is it a hope that others will agree with you and is it really necessary . Is it even against the rules of engagement on this board over which you personally have some control. Now that you have got it out of your system lets move on for what you see is what you will get, pig ignorant extremist or not.{ You don't think calling someone pig ignorant and extremist is itself pig ignorant and extreme on a public message board like this}
Have I expressed any opinion in similar vein to yourself Would you like me to, for it is so easily done, but serves no useful function other than sending the standards on this board southwards.
I'm not insulting you, I'm pointing out false content in posts by you and asking why you do such trolling?

You decided to falsely portray as objecting to investigation those posters here who criticise Comey for his likely illegal and certainly dubious announcement

Quote:
 
Now back to the announcement, and the letter posted by yourself indicating that there is a case to be answered. I see no reason why the letter should not have been penned, and I fully understand why it was put in the public domain. We can disagree on that in a civilised and courteous manner over a personal POV, and agreeing is not obligatory.
The reasons for investigate first, announce IF you have something of substance for presidential candidates are covered by the Hatch Act and the Department of Justice advice to the republican Comey. Advice the republican Comey chose to disregard to the benefit of the republican Trump

If you can't smell anything fishy in that action by Comey you need a new nose.
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Rich
Senior Member
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Steve K
Nov 1 2016, 09:55 AM
C-too
Oct 31 2016, 11:45 PM
Tytoalba
Oct 31 2016, 11:34 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
There is apparently a law that prohibits statements by the FBI from making ongoing investigations public at a time when it can interfere with an election.

If so, your 'once again' reasoning in an attempt to defend things to your own satisfaction, is wrong.
It's the Hatch Act of 1939 and it's not as clear as that.

However the position of known Republican Comey may well be untenable if he really did go against Justice Dept advice having previously tried to block release of a statement (on Russian hacking) that would have brought adverse attention on Trump.

Well, believe it or not, yesterday I heard Obama saying that he did not think that Comey had done anything wrong and there was no malice aforethought involved...............yes, that's right, Barak Obama said that, it was on yesterdays evening news on the radio and please take my word for it.
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AndyK
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I think Greens are twats but my UK debate virtual vote is going to Jill Stein.

I have a horrible feeling Trump is going to win.
Edited by AndyK, Nov 1 2016, 10:37 PM.
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C-too
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Rich
Nov 1 2016, 06:33 PM
Steve K
Nov 1 2016, 09:55 AM
C-too
Oct 31 2016, 11:45 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
It's the Hatch Act of 1939 and it's not as clear as that.

However the position of known Republican Comey may well be untenable if he really did go against Justice Dept advice having previously tried to block release of a statement (on Russian hacking) that would have brought adverse attention on Trump.
Well, believe it or not, yesterday I heard Obama saying that he did not think that Comey had done anything wrong and there was no malice aforethought involved...............yes, that's right, Barak Obama said that, it was on yesterdays evening news on the radio and please take my word for it.
Well Trump while rubbing his hands and making political gain definitely thought he had done no wrong, so if your post is correct that sort of makes Obama look a little naïve doesn't it ?
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Steve K
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Rich
Nov 1 2016, 06:33 PM
Steve K
Nov 1 2016, 09:55 AM
C-too
Oct 31 2016, 11:45 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
It's the Hatch Act of 1939 and it's not as clear as that.

However the position of known Republican Comey may well be untenable if he really did go against Justice Dept advice having previously tried to block release of a statement (on Russian hacking) that would have brought adverse attention on Trump.

Well, believe it or not, yesterday I heard Obama saying that he did not think that Comey had done anything wrong and there was no malice aforethought involved...............yes, that's right, Barak Obama said that, it was on yesterdays evening news on the radio and please take my word for it.
Actually Obama said he wouldn't defend his actions either
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Rich
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Steve K
Nov 1 2016, 11:50 PM
Rich
Nov 1 2016, 06:33 PM
Steve K
Nov 1 2016, 09:55 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Well, believe it or not, yesterday I heard Obama saying that he did not think that Comey had done anything wrong and there was no malice aforethought involved...............yes, that's right, Barak Obama said that, it was on yesterdays evening news on the radio and please take my word for it.
Actually Obama said he wouldn't defend his actions either
Well, notwithstanding the "small talk" from a man on his way out, I am still waiting for eithe of the two gems to tell the voters what they will do for them.

All this mud slinging seems to be more important than future plans, with all due respect to the American electorate, these two are causing the world to laugh at the farce.

At least Laurel and Hardy performed in this manner on purpose.
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Steve K
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Rich
Nov 1 2016, 11:56 PM
Steve K
Nov 1 2016, 11:50 PM
Rich
Nov 1 2016, 06:33 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Actually Obama said he wouldn't defend his actions either
Well, notwithstanding the "small talk" from a man on his way out, I am still waiting for eithe of the two gems to tell the voters what they will do for them.

All this mud slinging seems to be more important than future plans, with all due respect to the American electorate, these two are causing the world to laugh at the farce.

At least Laurel and Hardy performed in this manner on purpose.
Perhaps because you see the campaigns through a very narrow and distorting lens of foreign media

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/ outlines her policies which could be summarised as do all the things Obama was blocked from doing

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/ outlines his policies which could be summarised as cut taxes, spend more money, build an idiot wall, be rude to foreigners unless they're called Putin, let employers screw their employees and let the poor die if they get ill.

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Tytoalba
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Rich
Nov 1 2016, 11:56 PM
Steve K
Nov 1 2016, 11:50 PM
Rich
Nov 1 2016, 06:33 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Actually Obama said he wouldn't defend his actions either
Well, notwithstanding the "small talk" from a man on his way out, I am still waiting for eithe of the two gems to tell the voters what they will do for them.

All this mud slinging seems to be more important than future plans, with all due respect to the American electorate, these two are causing the world to laugh at the farce.

At least Laurel and Hardy performed in this manner on purpose.
I think that if Trump doesn't win, Clinton will ,or is it the other way around?
I have no say in the election, and we will all just have to accept the one that does, for the next four years.
Can't see much point in getting heated about the election, for we are just spectators.
The week after the result is known will be entertaining.
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Deleted User
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The biggest FU in history, I like the sound of that. We will see if our American cousins have the bottle for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pwXB2iIFeo

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C-too
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I just hope the American people see sense and the big fa*t loses and then disappears.
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Oddball
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Affa
Oct 31 2016, 08:06 PM
There's a stench of corruption ....... at every level.
Power no longer rests with the people imo

Did it ever really do so? Since the common folks got the vote, the way they have voted has been to one degree or another affected by webs of lies and personal agendas and hollow promises from those seeking election, and often a cavalier disregard to manifesto promises afterwards.
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krugerman
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If Donald Trump wins the US election, I suspect it will cause reverberations across the world, it would sour American foreign relations with every part of the world from Europe to Japan, but especially with Muslim nations and Mexico, and the United States would become "BIlly No Mates" of the world, instead of the powerful and trusted friend.

What I find really so very very hard to comprehend, is the amount of voters who are prepared to vote for such an arsehole as Trump, it seriously brings into question of just what America has become, and what kind of people the Americans really are, and I find it difficult to swallow the idea that they are supposedly our closest allies.

For Britain it would be a chill wind from the west if Trump became president, because as we prepare to leave our natural allies and neighbours, we would also have a very rocky relationship with America, in fact I would say it would be unsafe for Trump to contemplate coming to London ( and many other places in the world ).

Just who do these "Trumped Up" yanks think they are ?, with Liberal Canada to the North, Mexico to the South, and a world that is full of dangers, he wwould cause and create more havoc, more hatred and greatly increase the likelyhood of more terrorism and war, the man is complete nut.
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Deleted User
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Huma is interesting.

:)
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Affa
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The US turning to Nationalism?
Who'd believe it?

There's no doubt that neoliberalism is being seen by more & more voters as the Enemy of ordinary citizens ......... the question is which comes first - Capitalism with a Social Conscience or Nationalism.

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RoofGardener
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krugerman
Nov 2 2016, 10:29 AM
If Donald Trump wins the US election, I suspect it will cause reverberations across the world, it would sour American foreign relations with every part of the world from Europe to Japan.....


Would it ? Why ?

Quote:
 
...., but especially with Muslim nations ....

Would that include the ones who have been shouting "Death To America" for the last 30 years :rubchin: ?
Quote:
 

What I find really so very very hard to comprehend, is the amount of voters who are prepared to vote for such an arsehole as Trump....

Perhaps because he addresses their concerns about Globalism destroying the US industrial base, and causing large-scale unemployment in the US heartlands ? (a feature of his speeches rarely reported on in the UK media).

Apparently few other presidential candidates addressed this in any convincing way.

Quote:
 
For Britain it would be a chill wind from the west if Trump became president, because as we prepare to leave our natural allies and neighbours, we would also have a very rocky relationship with America...

Why ? What leads you to think that ? I thought DT had been quite up-beat about the UK in general, and Brexit in particular ?

Quote:
 
.. in fact I would say it would be unsafe for Trump to contemplate coming to London ( and many other places in the world ).

Why ? Who would threaten his safety ? He's been in the UK (Scotland) just a few months ago without any problems ? (admittedly, perhaps only to his golf course ? )

Quote:
 

Just who do these "Trumped Up" yanks think they are ?, with Liberal Canada to the North, Mexico to the South, and a world that is full of dangers, he would cause and create more havoc, more hatred and greatly increase the likelyhood of more terrorism and war, the man is complete nut.

In what way would he increase the likelyhood of terrorism and war ? All he's done is to discuss US security ? [/quote]
Edited by RoofGardener, Nov 2 2016, 03:04 PM.
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Rich
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Well, I had to laugh a little while ago, I was listening to the moral maze on R4 and one of the "witnesses" was an American comedian touring the UK with his show all about the upcoming Presidential elections.

The title of the show is:

"Electile dysfunction" ;D
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Steve K
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Rich
Nov 2 2016, 08:51 PM
Well, I had to laugh a little while ago, I was listening to the moral maze on R4 and one of the "witnesses" was an American comedian touring the UK with his show all about the upcoming Presidential elections.

The title of the show is:

"Electile dysfunction" ;D
;D ;D
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RoofGardener
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Lord of Plantpots
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Rich
Nov 2 2016, 08:51 PM
Well, I had to laugh a little while ago, I was listening to the moral maze on R4 and one of the "witnesses" was an American comedian touring the UK with his show all about the upcoming Presidential elections.

The title of the show is:

"Electile dysfunction" ;D
Brilliant ! Thanks for posting that Rich ;D

On a slight tangent, there was a poll reported on R4 news last night. The poll asked Americans who they thought was the biggest liar out of the two candidates. (I'm sure they phrased it more diplomatically than that)

Curiously, more of the people polled thought Hilary was the biggest liar, than Trump. (by a margin of around 8%).
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C-too
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RoofGardener
Nov 2 2016, 03:03 PM
krugerman
Nov 2 2016, 10:29 AM
If Donald Trump wins the US election, I suspect it will cause reverberations across the world, it would sour American foreign relations with every part of the world from Europe to Japan.....

Would it ? Why ?
Quote:
 
...., but especially with Muslim nations ....

Would that include the ones who have been shouting "Death To America" for the last 30 years :rubchin: ?
Quote:
 

What I find really so very very hard to comprehend, is the amount of voters who are prepared to vote for such an arsehole as Trump....

Perhaps because he addresses their concerns about Globalism destroying the US industrial base, and causing large-scale unemployment in the US heartlands ? (a feature of his speeches rarely reported on in the UK media).
Apparently few other presidential candidates addressed this in any convincing way.
Quote:
 
For Britain it would be a chill wind from the west if Trump became president, because as we prepare to leave our natural allies and neighbours, we would also have a very rocky relationship with America...

Why ? What leads you to think that ? I thought DT had been quite up-beat about the UK in general, and Brexit in particular ?
Quote:
 
.. in fact I would say it would be unsafe for Trump to contemplate coming to London ( and many other places in the world ).

Why ? Who would threaten his safety ? He's been in the UK (Scotland) just a few months ago without any problems ? (admittedly, perhaps only to his golf course ? )
Quote:
 
Just who do these "Trumped Up" yanks think they are ?, with Liberal Canada to the North, Mexico to the South, and a world that is full of dangers, he would cause and create more havoc, more hatred and greatly increase the likelyhood of more terrorism and war, the man is complete nut.
In what way would he increase the likelyhood of terrorism and war ? All he's done is to discuss US security ?
[/quote]Judging from what I've seen of him, particularly during debates he is another mighty mouth who just has to say something and repeatedly exposes his ignorant and denigrating approach.

An over pushy mouth almighty yank playing the big I am, definitely causes me some concern.
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AndyK
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Affa
Nov 2 2016, 01:20 PM
The US turning to Nationalism?
Who'd believe it?

There's no doubt that neoliberalism is being seen by more & more voters as the Enemy of ordinary citizens ......... the question is which comes first - Capitalism with a Social Conscience or Nationalism.

You only have to look at Detroit and the North of England to realise why people are turning away from established politics.

They have given them plenty of time to let the politicians show why these policy's of globalisation are good for them and they still haven't got their answer.

Now they are being shown where the real power lies.

Its all very depressing, but maybe some real good will come from it over time as politicians are being shown that they have got to start listening to the people.

Edited by AndyK, Nov 3 2016, 10:29 AM.
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Affa
Senior Member
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AndyK
Nov 3 2016, 10:27 AM


Now they are being shown where the real power lies.

Its all very depressing, but maybe some real good will come from it over time as politicians are being shown that they have got to start listening to the people.


It pleases me that you write as you do here!

I've no doubt that many here see myself as some sort of 'lefty extremist'. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I am a Capitalist, a business supporter, a free marketeer.
What I am not is an oppressor, someone who thinks it is OK for business to enhance profits at their employees expense, that sees in work welfare as justifiable, or wealth distribution favouring those that need it least.
A Social Conscience is needed, and we look to government to ensure there is one ..... instead government sides with greedy business and acts as oppressor.

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Tytoalba
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Affa
Nov 3 2016, 11:00 AM
AndyK
Nov 3 2016, 10:27 AM


Now they are being shown where the real power lies.

Its all very depressing, but maybe some real good will come from it over time as politicians are being shown that they have got to start listening to the people.


It pleases me that you write as you do here!

I've no doubt that many here see myself as some sort of 'lefty extremist'. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I am a Capitalist, a business supporter, a free marketeer.
What I am not is an oppressor, someone who thinks it is OK for business to enhance profits at their employees expense, that sees in work welfare as justifiable, or wealth distribution favouring those that need it least.
A Social Conscience is needed, and we look to government to ensure there is one ..... instead government sides with greedy business and acts as oppressor.

A bit too general, inevitable on a board like this to make points, ,though I support your sentiments, but i think it is wrong to generalise, for there are many good employers out there concerned for the welfare of their employees, working on the principle that happy employees will work well. as well as having socialist principles.
Nissan is a good example of that philosophy for I don't think they have been on strike for 20 years or more. It is wrong to make a statement accusing all employers of just being concerned with profit, and being unconcerned about the welfare of the workers and employees. Each should be judged on their own merits. I herd yesterday that McDonalds the fast food chain is a good employer, and pays well, ,and likes to employ students because they move between home and college , and can be employed in either location, with mutual benefit
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Steve K
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Once and future cynic
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Tytoalba
Nov 3 2016, 12:16 PM
Affa
Nov 3 2016, 11:00 AM
AndyK
Nov 3 2016, 10:27 AM


Now they are being shown where the real power lies.

Its all very depressing, but maybe some real good will come from it over time as politicians are being shown that they have got to start listening to the people.


It pleases me that you write as you do here!

I've no doubt that many here see myself as some sort of 'lefty extremist'. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I am a Capitalist, a business supporter, a free marketeer.
What I am not is an oppressor, someone who thinks it is OK for business to enhance profits at their employees expense, that sees in work welfare as justifiable, or wealth distribution favouring those that need it least.
A Social Conscience is needed, and we look to government to ensure there is one ..... instead government sides with greedy business and acts as oppressor.

A bit too general, inevitable on a board like this to make points, ,though I support your sentiments, but i think it is wrong to generalise, for there are many good employers out there concerned for the welfare of their employees, working on the principle that happy employees will work well. as well as having socialist principles.
Nissan is a good example of that philosophy for I don't think they have been on strike for 20 years or more. It is wrong to make a statement accusing all employers of just being concerned with profit, and being unconcerned about the welfare of the workers and employees. Each should be judged on their own merits. I herd yesterday that McDonalds the fast food chain is a good employer, and pays well, ,and likes to employ students because they move between home and college , and can be employed in either location, with mutual benefit
But the issues Andy and Affa raise remain.

Globalisation has brought many benefits to many. I'm sure the Americans that this thread relates to like their cheap toasters and 3D widescreen TVs just like Jo Public UK does

But it's obvious to the many that in net terms they have had the very much thinner share of the globalisation benefits compared to those that run and own companies

That Trump (a prime example of such a niche net gainer) captures more votes as a result shows that irony is very much not dead
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krugerman
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Much of the population have double standards, over the last 20 years we have seen a rapidly expanding UK fruit, vegetable and salad leaf industry, mainly through the availability of migrant workers ( who apparently take British jobs) I dont think so.

Almost all our strawberry growers have warned of what will happen to British strawberries if free movement is stopped, there wont be a British strawberry industry because British people will not pay the price for strawberries picked by British people earning way over and above the National Minimum Wage.

British people tend to be full of empty rhetoric, many UKIP type people and Brexiters shop at Aldi or Lidl, they look for the best prices, the best value, and its all about been competitive.

95 % of corner shops have gone because supermarkets are cheaper, so much for loyalty versus value for money, the best way forward is for the world to gradually break down barriers and restrictions and allow goods to be traded freely and fairly which in the end gives everyone the best value for money, leaving us more disposable income.

History has always taught us that isolationism and restrictive economies always end in been worse off, and America should have learnt that lesson.


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