| Welcome to Uk Debate Mk 2, the UK's liveliest political and social debate site. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| USA Presidential Election; Combined two topics | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Oct 30 2016, 09:58 AM (2,278 Views) | |
| Tytoalba | Oct 30 2016, 09:58 AM Post #1 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
For weeks, BBC News along with channel four news and ITV news, along with our own luvvies, and some newspapers, including the Daily Mail have ben ridiculing Donald trump, the right wing candidate for the presidency of the USA. There was very little criticism of Hillary Clinton and her policies. It was always unwise fore the British People , News broadcasters and Newspapers to take sides on this issue, for it seems that Clinton has fallen at the last hurdle, or at least been severely hurt but the current reporting of her wrong doings. We still do not know what the result will be, and of course we have no say in the outcome, a good reason to remain neutral . This could be a lesson to us all to remain objective, and nail our colours to the mast. Events can make fools of us all. |
![]() |
|
| Replies: | |
|---|---|
| Dan1989 | Nov 3 2016, 02:51 PM Post #81 |
|
Regular Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Such a crap argument, how did farming work before free movement, that's right, was just fine, it's not that British people can not do it, just not forced to do it, meaning they're unemployed, instead of bringing in far more people stressing the housing and infrastructure while people languish unemployed, you care nothing for people, just your ideals. People who say we should allow immigrants in when there's unemployment, plain silly, also makes me think they've got some ideological or wage reason, they other want to cause cultural issues or low wages. Corner shops were always going to be hit hard, not opening 24 hours, less stock and so on. Also don't let Tigger hear you talk bad about protectionism, he does not like us selling our industries and co to foreign investors, while most vote leavers are receptive to the idea globalisation within business, it's EU supporters that practice protectionism, not the other way round. Edited by Dan1989, Nov 3 2016, 03:05 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| C-too | Nov 3 2016, 05:00 PM Post #82 |
|
Honourable Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I recall seeing news real on farming showing a milk tanker emptying its milk onto the ground in an open field, and farmers ploughing greens back into the ground. All because there was no overall control as farmers, who being free to do so, chased the money. Result surpluses one year damaging profits, and profits sought by changing production to where shortages were bringing high prices. A see-saw affect. |
![]() |
|
| Rich | Nov 3 2016, 07:08 PM Post #83 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
This is what I was saying a few posts earlier, it has become an election of Characters rather than policies. What care I? I am sure that the Yanks are old enough and ugly enough to know what they are doing. |
![]() |
|
| Cymru | Nov 3 2016, 07:54 PM Post #84 |
|
Alt-Right
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Here's a thought: maybe it is less to do with being competitive than it is a financial necessity? |
![]() |
|
| Cymru | Nov 3 2016, 08:05 PM Post #85 |
|
Alt-Right
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
That's funny because it was during America's isolationist and protectionist phase that it managed to elevate itself to a major world economic power without the need for colonies like the European powers of the time. |
![]() |
|
| Lewis | Nov 9 2016, 07:24 AM Post #86 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
So Donald Fart has won. Humanity has lost big style! |
![]() |
|
| Cymru | Nov 9 2016, 07:32 AM Post #87 |
|
Alt-Right
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
He has done it! Trump wins! America has been grabbed by the pussy.
|
![]() |
|
| Oddball | Nov 9 2016, 07:47 AM Post #88 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Well the only thing that Trump had going for me was/is an anti-abortion stance. Brexit and now President Trump, we do indeed live in 'interesting times'. Anyone want to make a killing selling tin hats, bunkers and gold? |
![]() |
|
| AndyK | Nov 9 2016, 07:52 AM Post #89 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
What are the odds now that Le Penn will be president of France? Brexit was the beginning of the end for globalisation, this is another step on the ladder. |
![]() |
|
| Oddball | Nov 9 2016, 07:54 AM Post #90 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
No, the pussy lost, it is the prick who's won! |
![]() |
|
| Cymru | Nov 9 2016, 08:04 AM Post #91 |
|
Alt-Right
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Hell yeah. We've already got the German politicians expressing shock at the result and talking of uncertainty. All those mainstream politicians, economists and journalists who sneered at and belittled the average Joe who dared to question the free market, dared to question the sending of jobs overseas, dared to question the importation of millions of people with alien values, this election has been a big f**k you to all of them. Edited by Cymru, Nov 9 2016, 08:09 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| redflag | Nov 9 2016, 08:54 AM Post #92 |
|
Regular Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I am with you on this one AndyK, the American people did what the UK did on the 23rd June and what could happen in France and Germany next year, to all the doubters of Jermy Corbyn been unelectable including the Labour PLP think again people have had enough of doing it the ESTABLISHMENT WAY when the top 1% get the honey while the rest of us get the Brown Stuff. |
![]() |
|
| Dan1989 | Nov 9 2016, 08:57 AM Post #93 |
|
Regular Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Yes he did, surprising, I was sure it would be Hillary, but then I forget a lot Americans are anti-government, well larger government. It would interesting to see who voted for him, because he had to gain a at-least 25% of the immigrant vote, or maybe the Democrats lost their strangle hold on the black vote, cause immigration has destroyed their chances for work. And the student vote as-well. |
![]() |
|
| Cymru | Nov 9 2016, 09:16 AM Post #94 |
|
Alt-Right
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Was watching TYT's coverage of the election and according to statistics they were quoting Clinton didn't do as well with women voters as the Democrats had hoped she would do. Also Trump was able to get about a third of the Hispanic vote, thus nullifying its potential to deliver key states such as Florida to Clinton. Another factor was young white males. The non-college educated young white males were predicted to go with Trump and they did, but the young white males with a college education were expected to go with Clinton but ended up going with Trump. Edited by Cymru, Nov 9 2016, 09:17 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Matthew Brady | Nov 9 2016, 09:18 AM Post #95 |
|
Regular Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Cant stump the Trump |
![]() |
|
| AndyK | Nov 9 2016, 09:36 AM Post #96 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Does anybody know how Trump can be president and still own all his businesses? there must be a conflict of interest there. |
![]() |
|
| Pro Veritas | Nov 9 2016, 09:39 AM Post #97 |
|
Upstanding Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
No pro-Brexit person I have ever spoken to or heard about has said we don't want to trade with Europe on some level. We just don't want to "be" Europe. As Cymru has stated, where people on the lower end of the wage ladder (the people you clearly do not give a fuck about) shop tends to be an issue of financial necessity. When my parents were both working they shopped at Morrisons, now they are both retired they shop at Lidl and only go to Morrisions for anything they can't get at Lidl. Funny things is though Lidl stores aim to have 80% of the fresh food produce they sell sourced within 30 miles of the Store, so shopping at Lidl means shoppers are helping the local economy more than if they shop at the likes of Morrisons. Talking about empty rhetoric: what about the Pro-EU people claiming they care about improving the life-chances of the poorest in society all the while espousing an ideology (freedom of movement) that has the most devastating opposite effect. Are they hypocrites? Or just too fucking stupid to understand the consequences of their actions? Globalisation, and neo-lib policies have seen the life chances of the poorest 25% of this country get worse. That is a DIRECT consequence of the Free Movement of People... ...End Of! How can someone who claims to be broadly left-of-centre champion an ideal that sees the life chances of the poorest people in this country made worse? How can someone who claims to be broadly left-of-centre champion an ideal that sees socially provided services made worse for those who most rely on them? If you in the top 25% of the wage ladder being in the EU has seen you flourish. If you are in the middle 50% of the wage ladder being in the EU has seen you become better off. If you are in the bottom 25% of the wage ladder being in the EU has seen you get economically and socially raped, time and time again. The deep seated problem you and many (but by no means all) Pro-EU supporter have is that you just don't give a fuck about the people most hurt by being in the EU - in fact some of you (Ctoo for example) refuse to accept that people have been hurt by being in the EU. It is this abject lack of compassion for those worse off than yourself, and that sentiment writ large across almost the entire political class and the Pro-EU Press that led to so many of you getting the Brexit issue so wrong. And now, instead of admitting that you failed to understand the issues that led to an Out vote you smugly and inhumanely proclaim that those who voted Out were stupid, or did not understand what they were voting for. They understood just fine what they were voting for - for the the next generation to have better chances than the current generation. All The Best |
![]() |
|
| Tytoalba | Nov 9 2016, 09:55 AM Post #98 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
To make it worse for you, Nigel Farrage has won something for the UK for he gave his full support to the New elect President of the United States of America, and I cannot see that going unrewarded or working against the interests of the UK. The BBC, Channel four and ITV have been very antagonistic of Trump, always presenting him in a bad light and Clinton in the good, though Andrew Neil has been very fair and impartial, unlike some of his guests. More poor losers from the liberal left. I don't suppose the American people will claim that they were misinformed, that the result should not stand, and that there should be another Ballot or referendum to double check the will of the people especially, those that were 'ill informed or misled' |
![]() |
|
| Tytoalba | Nov 9 2016, 10:11 AM Post #99 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
This result is going to strengthen the hands of the anti establishment anti liberal left across Europe, in Italy, Germany, France and the Netherlands. with more opposition to an EU super state The Germans are now calling for the refugee boats in the Mediterranean to be turned around at sea, and sent back to where they came, just like some posters on this board. Idealism always has to face reality eventually and do what needs to be done, for as with Brexit there is always a hidden majority that speaks out eventually, insisting on change, usually after the damage has been done. |
![]() |
|
| C-too | Nov 9 2016, 10:13 AM Post #100 |
|
Honourable Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Time will tell. I have yet to be convinced that this is not just another case of poor economic condition bringing the sh*te out of the woodwork. I can't imagine Trump winning if Detroit had still been pouring out cars in the thousands. |
![]() |
|
| Malum Unus | Nov 9 2016, 10:54 AM Post #101 |
|
Hater of Political Correctness and Legalese
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
So America voted for Giant Douche over Turd Sandwich. |
![]() |
|
| Curious Cdn | Nov 9 2016, 10:58 AM Post #102 |
|
Frozen Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The apocalypse is nigh. It certainly confirms what a lot of us have known for decades, that the average American is as thick as road tar. Remember Toronto's Rob Ford? Well, this is the same cut-off-your-nose-to-spite-your-face phenomenon. Confused, fed-up electorates taking a chance with a populist wing-nut (Brexit like that, too?)... Edited by Curious Cdn, Nov 9 2016, 10:59 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Dan1989 | Nov 9 2016, 11:01 AM Post #103 |
|
Regular Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I'll bite, what do you think that's so bad, I do agree many Canada's are acting like bitches, but not many of them have actually given a legitimate reason, mostly just hyperbole. There's only one thing, NAFTA, and yes it hurts Mexico and Canada if they left, but why are they dumb to protect their own, if it brings jobs back to them? Edited by Dan1989, Nov 9 2016, 11:02 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Curious Cdn | Nov 9 2016, 11:12 AM Post #104 |
|
Frozen Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Trump is a unilateralist and Britain will also get screwed in a major way, now that you are no longer part of any trade agreements. He'll see you as a competitor, not as a friend. Canada has irons in many fires. NAFTA is very important to us be we have other options. BTW, if you think that NAFTA's benefits are somehow unidirectional, the number one trading partner and destination for the goods from 36 of the 50 states is Canada. The US loses a whole lot, as well.Trump likely doesn't give a rat's ass either way. He's in this for Trump, not America. VIVA IL DUCE!!! ... and I'm not joking. Edited by Curious Cdn, Nov 9 2016, 11:13 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Gand | Nov 9 2016, 11:14 AM Post #105 |
|
Regular Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
What with this and brexit I have now lost what remaining interest I had in politics. We live in an idiocracy so I’m just going to sit back and observe the antics of the idiots … and hope that they won’t affect me too much. In conclusion I think it dissevers a |
![]() |
|
| Dan1989 | Nov 9 2016, 11:19 AM Post #106 |
|
Regular Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
We will have to see, though currently still part of a trade union and depending how we leave, still might, but there's always Canada to make a deal with >:D , though who else are you going to trade block with, there's issue in the EU about trading with Canada is still needs to agreed upon, so where does Canada turn to, if America pull out? |
![]() |
|
| Dan1989 | Nov 9 2016, 11:21 AM Post #107 |
|
Regular Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Isn't this way of thinking already defunct, we were already told doom would befallen us, when we voted to leave and in some areas, especially stock market and exports it's been a positive, also our construction was up. I may say people in general have been a bit too over dramatic, and maybe that's the real issue with politics, taken over by emotions and ideology, in the last 50 years. |
![]() |
|
| Curious Cdn | Nov 9 2016, 11:26 AM Post #108 |
|
Frozen Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Well, watch the stock markets around the world plummet, today. The price of gold is going up rapidly (good news for Canada!) |
![]() |
|
| Affa | Nov 9 2016, 11:31 AM Post #109 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
For a change we agree on something. This result is one that rejects the globalisation idea. It's surprising that the USA has gone and laid it out, and how it plays out will be interesting. Regrettably the UK electorate are too slow to force change on this. Level. We here cannot look forward to an end for corporate dominance under our present regime. |
![]() |
|
| Curious Cdn | Nov 9 2016, 11:34 AM Post #110 |
|
Frozen Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The Chinese are just itching to buy our resources. They were blocked from buying up too many Canadian oil resources but that could change. By the way, Canada is America's #1 foreign source of petroleum. It is not Arabia. If we have to trade it elsewhere to earn a living, the US suffers in the long run when they have to return to buying it from unstable places. As I said, Trump couldn't give a rat's ass. This whole historic event is happening to feed his endless vanity, not for any collective good. He is a narcisistic bully and he will do whatever the hell makes him feel good. |
![]() |
|
| Curious Cdn | Nov 9 2016, 11:41 AM Post #111 |
|
Frozen Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The irony is that the USA that is rejecting globalization has been one of the two or three prime benefactors of globalization. |
![]() |
|
| Dan1989 | Nov 9 2016, 11:47 AM Post #112 |
|
Regular Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
But be very careful with China they don't suffer from political correctness or social justice, they mostly come in with their workers, removing jobs from locals, they've done that in Africa and South America. That's a fair point, but does America need NAFTA for that, that's another fair question. I don't think it really matters, when the last time a president made any real difference, mostly just a figure head, now that the republicans have taken over, it's them who will be making the decisions. |
![]() |
|
| Pro Veritas | Nov 9 2016, 11:53 AM Post #113 |
|
Upstanding Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Well of course it is, to some degree, poor economic conditions leading to people feeling left behind and alienation. What you seem to fail to realise is that those poor economic conditions do not just materialise all on their own; they are the direct result of the politics that has gone on for the last 30 or 40 years. The EU and the US have long been supporters of "globalisation" and that means a race to the bottom for working conditions, wages and standards of living so that corporate profiteering can flourish. What I do resent, and what I think the Mods should take action against is you labeling the people adversely affected by the EU and Globalisation as "shite". If Detroit had been one of the world's leading motor manufacturing hubs Trump would not have been elected. If the working class people of Britain had not seen wages, living standards, and opportunities depreciate because of uncontrolled immigration then the Outers would have lost. What FoM has done is Europe is EXACTLY the same as what Globalisation has done in the US - a race to the bottom for working class wages. All The Best |
![]() |
|
| Affa | Nov 9 2016, 11:54 AM Post #114 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Even more ironical is that the Far East, China in particular, has become a threat to US dominance/hedgmony and they now want to resort to protectionism to hold onto what they have. |
![]() |
|
| Pro Veritas | Nov 9 2016, 11:59 AM Post #115 |
|
Upstanding Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Only partially correct. The US economy as a whole has benefited from Globalisation, just as the UK economy as a whole has benefited from being in the EU. But the bottom 25-35% of the labour force in both of those countries has been "left behind", they have seen job prospects decline, job stability decline, wages decline, living standards decline. And those people are numerically superior to the 1-5% who have disproportionately benefited. Hence the two results. I genuinely still think that far too few people within the sphere of politics understand that yet. Too many of them still think the electorate are stupid - they are wrong; the electorate has just started to wise-up. All The Best Edited by Pro Veritas, Nov 9 2016, 12:00 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| AndyK | Nov 9 2016, 12:20 PM Post #116 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I don't think the people of Detroit would agree with you, the prime benefactors are places like China and India. |
![]() |
|
| Tytoalba | Nov 9 2016, 12:47 PM Post #117 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The internet and social media has destroyed the ability to keep anything secret for long. Hidden agendas eventually become exposed, with whistle blowers having mass audiences at the press of button or two. 1x2x4x8x16x32x64 etc. and the whole world knows. |
![]() |
|
| Tytoalba | Nov 9 2016, 12:51 PM Post #118 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I wonder if Trump is a Thatcherite? He could do worse
|
![]() |
|
| Dan1989 | Nov 9 2016, 12:59 PM Post #119 |
|
Regular Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Wouldn't it be a reganite, being that's America's equivalent. Edited by Dan1989, Nov 9 2016, 01:00 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| AndyK | Nov 9 2016, 01:12 PM Post #120 |
|
Senior Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Yes, Thatcherism was called Reganomics over there. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
![]() ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community. Learn More · Sign-up Now |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · America · Next Topic » |




![]](http://z5.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)




2:47 PM Jul 11