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| USA Presidential Election; Combined two topics | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 30 2016, 09:58 AM (2,277 Views) | |
| Tytoalba | Oct 30 2016, 09:58 AM Post #1 |
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For weeks, BBC News along with channel four news and ITV news, along with our own luvvies, and some newspapers, including the Daily Mail have ben ridiculing Donald trump, the right wing candidate for the presidency of the USA. There was very little criticism of Hillary Clinton and her policies. It was always unwise fore the British People , News broadcasters and Newspapers to take sides on this issue, for it seems that Clinton has fallen at the last hurdle, or at least been severely hurt but the current reporting of her wrong doings. We still do not know what the result will be, and of course we have no say in the outcome, a good reason to remain neutral . This could be a lesson to us all to remain objective, and nail our colours to the mast. Events can make fools of us all. |
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| Pro Veritas | Nov 9 2016, 01:22 PM Post #121 |
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Of course Trump winning may be good news for the UK: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37594928
All The Best |
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| Alberich | Nov 9 2016, 01:29 PM Post #122 |
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We can but conjecture at this stage as to what happens now. My first thought was - I hope his protection team is on the ball, because the left were always bad losers, and America has more than its share of nut-jobs. My second-- that he has a republican majority in Congress, and control of the Senate, so he has a far better chance of seeing policy through than did Obama, who was hamstrung throughout his period of office. My third - that he will have to ameliorate his more outlandish promises, made while electioneering. There ain't gonna be a big wall with Mexico! And my fourth - that when the electorate have a real choice; an alternative to the same old same old, they seem to go for a nationalistic, protective approach, and put home jobs and national welfare before global free trade agreements, and the notion that we are all citizens of the world. It's sad, but true. Tribalism, when given a chance, will always surface. Brexit is a good example. When we vote in the general elections, the choice is between a centre left establishment party and a centre right establishment party; which is no choice at all. But when given the chance to opt for a nationalistic, self reliant future as opposed to being part of a homogenised construct such as the EU, the former wins. So how will President Trump behave in office? Forget his more extreme utterances...they were always electioneering at its worst. Will he adopt an isolationist approach; create barriers to foreign trade to protect home markets? Will he leave NATO, as he has intimated, unless the rest pay a lot more towards common defence? How will he handle cheap imports from China and the like? The coming years will be interesting, to say the least. |
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| AndyK | Nov 9 2016, 01:56 PM Post #123 |
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Interesting indeed. It looks like reform of the WTO is on the cards as well. |
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| C-too | Nov 9 2016, 03:08 PM Post #124 |
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The last thing a country that is just about to start building up its industrial base needs is free trade. We would have no way of protecting fledgling industries. |
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| C-too | Nov 9 2016, 03:24 PM Post #125 |
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The poor conditions that exist throughout the world at present are based upon the poisoning of the international financial markets by the introduction of toxic debts from the abuse of the Sub Prime mortgage fiasco. Fed into the system via Wall Street. I think that people who make comments like "I want my country back" and "We will make America great again", neither of whom have put any meat on the bones, are offering sh*te to frightened people. It is the mouth almighties that I refer to, not the average voter, though I do have some concerns about them. The international meltdown has done far more damage than immigration, At least immigration does have some saving graces.
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| AndyK | Nov 9 2016, 03:28 PM Post #126 |
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There is an interesting quote from Trump backer Peter Thiel on the Guardian website about all the flamboyant claims made by Trump, it also applies to the Brexit "Lies".
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| Tigger | Nov 9 2016, 03:32 PM Post #127 |
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Trump is protectionist in outlook and not a fan of the free trade many on here see as a panacea for Brexit, take careful note of that right wing types.......... |
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| Pro Veritas | Nov 9 2016, 05:43 PM Post #128 |
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No. Those toxic debts are what lit the fuse. The systemic weaknesses of the neo-liberal economic system are the root cause of the prevailing economic conditions. Free movement of capital and people can ONLY create a race to the bottom. The sub-prime fiasco was a symptom and a catalyst, not a root cause. All The Best |
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| Pro Veritas | Nov 9 2016, 05:44 PM Post #129 |
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1) No it hasn't. 2) Has it? All The Best |
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| Tytoalba | Nov 9 2016, 06:02 PM Post #130 |
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Stock markets are up, pound is up, which all shows approval of Trumps victory. |
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| Dan1989 | Nov 9 2016, 06:06 PM Post #131 |
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Yes, Trump winning is probably good for us, then Hilary as it seemed that the Democrats, were arguing for throwing us at the back of the queue, I don't think Trump had the same idea, also our economies are quite similar, just need to get the Canadians aboard, get ourselves a North Atlantic deal. Though about the stock market and currency, it wasn't that much of a risk, it's just a normal election, we changed history here with the EU vote. Edited by Dan1989, Nov 9 2016, 06:19 PM.
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| krugerman | Nov 9 2016, 06:42 PM Post #132 |
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We are on a collision course with the United States and we are about to leave the EU, we are going to end up been in a vacuum. Lets get one thing absolutely crystal clear, the UK has far more in common with European values than we will ever have with the values of Donald Trump and a nation that thinks been able to pop to the local hardware store and buy a machine gun is "OK" Today I read with utter dismay what our Prime Minister said to Donald Trump, I felt that I wanted to be sick, and like previous British leaders she's a creep, and is doing what Thatcher, Major, Blair and all the other have done - licking the arse of America. FOR REAL STATESMAN SHIP LOOK TO MERKEL NOT BRITAIN Congratulations and applause to Angela Merkel, a REAL leader who speaks for me, and for everyone in the world who believes in a just world, and one where the rule of law applies equally to every nation, and who speaks for decency and humanity, not hatred and division. The German leader said her relationship with Trump would only succeed if he upheld “the dignity of man, independent of origin”, “Germany and America are connected by values of democracy, freedom, and respect for the law and the dignity of man, independent of origin, skin colour, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or political views. Whilst Merkel congratulated Trump, she has also made a not so veiled threat that some of his views and rhetoric were not acceptable, and thank goodness that Europe's leading statesperson is saying what needs to be said. The United States cannot get anywhere in the world without co-operating with other nations, his threats to Mexico, his threats to endorse torture, his ridiculous threat to ban Muslims from entering the United States must all be withdrawn, otherwise America will end up been Billy No Mates. |
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| Dan1989 | Nov 9 2016, 06:52 PM Post #133 |
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This is like a propaganda piece, I like it on that merit, but it's pretty much wrong on all accounts, though thumbs up on the propaganda, Joseph Goebbels would have loved you. 1)They are pretty much our offspring in a national way, also there are many here who would like to have access to firearms and we're very culturally similar, for fuck sake man, we speak the same language. 2)You leave Theresa alone, you bully, she's being done a fine job. Merkel who sold Germany, lost her position to another party, great role model, yeah the dignity of Germany, yeah she threw that away. Also, they want that deal with America, they will fall in line. 3)It's not trying to isolate itself, it's trying to make sure all deals work for it, all people affected by free trade and immigration, have spoken out, but you don't care about them do you? He didn't threaten Mexico, also DOES EVERYONE FORGET THAT MEXICO HAS ITS OWN WALL? About Islam, it's sensible, check the group who have the highest chance of terrorism. Edited by Dan1989, Nov 9 2016, 06:56 PM.
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| Lewis | Nov 9 2016, 07:21 PM Post #134 |
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Like in Brexit a majority of poor, white working class men voted Trump (Fart). Like Brexit they will be disappointed when it doesn't go their way and they will find themselves a lot worse off!
Edited by Lewis, Nov 9 2016, 07:22 PM.
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| Dan1989 | Nov 9 2016, 07:26 PM Post #135 |
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Wrong, the white vote was split, yes more to Trump but it was quite close, the same as women, just going to Clinton. But the biggest shock is 30% of Latinos who rejected identity politics, now only the black community needs to be released from their prison of Democrat control, who have betrayed them for decades. I don't think they will face the same issues we might face, it's a vastly more powerful country with a large economy, hardly comparable to us, I do believe they can bring jobs back to those who voted against globalisation. Edited by Dan1989, Nov 9 2016, 07:32 PM.
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| C-too | Nov 9 2016, 07:45 PM Post #136 |
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I disagree, IMO sub-prime toxic debts and irresponsibility in the international financial markets were the major flies in the ointment. I'm certainly not a fan of neoliberalism, it gave too much freedom to greedy individuals who failed to see anything other than the size of their own Bank accounts. |
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| C-too | Nov 9 2016, 07:52 PM Post #137 |
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Yes it absolutely has, it is still what is holding everything else up both here and abroad. You have been introduced to situations that go beyond your one sided assessment of immigration, you didn't dispute them you just chose to ignore them. |
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| C-too | Nov 9 2016, 07:53 PM Post #138 |
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Or approval of having a result, any result, at last ? |
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| Lewis | Nov 9 2016, 08:48 PM Post #139 |
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Funny thing is that Clinton got more votes overall than Fart yet still lost, due to the idiosyncrasies of the US voting system! |
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| Dan1989 | Nov 9 2016, 08:58 PM Post #140 |
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Well, it kinda makes sense, because it delegates votes on the most important states, because it's not a comparable nation to us, it's a federal state, so not all states are created equal basically. It probably make sure the larger states don't feel dictated by the smaller states, only reason they still keep it I guess. Though there's still a few more states to vote, maybe leave him with the most. Edited by Dan1989, Nov 9 2016, 09:00 PM.
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| AndyK | Nov 9 2016, 09:15 PM Post #141 |
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That's not wha'ts showing up on the stats. It seems equally split between working poor and degree qualified people. The divide seems to be more between the cities and the country, very similar to Brexit. |
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| Lewis | Nov 9 2016, 09:31 PM Post #142 |
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Do you have the stats to prove that? If so I will accept your premise? |
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| xosg | Nov 9 2016, 10:06 PM Post #143 |
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I bet your disappointed again . BEING ON THE WRONG SIDE AGAIN LOL. Ever thought no one takes a blind bit of notice to your luvvie left wing ideology anymore.I said many times on here the times are changing the luvvies had their moment.It will all change now,for you can rest assured, "as certain as tigger is WRONG AGAIN" .Whatever happens in America,we follow.NO more PC,NO more climate change BS,that will be yesterdays news and most importantly CONTROL of our own destiny. LONG LIVE AMERICA.HAIL DONALD TRUMP and BREXIT (well you got no choice really,have you ?) |
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| Rich | Nov 9 2016, 10:11 PM Post #144 |
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Nonetheless, It seems to me that the yanks are willing to put up with 4 years of Donald in exchange for disbanding the rotten and elitist status quo. Who knows, he may turn out to be a breath of fresh air, if he can bring manufacturing and investment back to the rustbelt states then he will be hailed as a saint. Stranger things have happened at sea...one thing that has been learned by all is...pay no heed to professional pollsters.
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| Jessamy Bride | Nov 9 2016, 10:24 PM Post #145 |
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Looks like we have a new best mate.....the Americans loved Brexit ....for reasons I don't really understand since the two situations were entirely different. but hey we need all the friends we can get.... The EU aren't cutting us much slack. Other than that, I can't help feeling sad at the division in the US....and more than worried about his odd behaviour. ...but his campaign targeted a section of society who should have been listened to ....and they got ignored Whether they'll be disappointed ...probably but who knows. |
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| AndyK | Nov 9 2016, 10:49 PM Post #146 |
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Yes here, https://news.vice.com/story/white-people-voted-to-elect-donald-trump
also 30% of Latinos surprisingly. |
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| Tytoalba | Nov 9 2016, 11:12 PM Post #147 |
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Hasn't gone your way either and your disappointed. I think being disappointed is par for the course for most of us at some time. I was disappointed with the high court ruling. and I hope others will be disappointed if it is overthrown in the court of appeal, but in the nicest possible way. |
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| Tytoalba | Nov 9 2016, 11:19 PM Post #148 |
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Certainly do not jump to conclusions too soon. Too much support for one side tends to generate more opposition and a change in votes.As it was said in the music halls its not over until the fat lady sings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIVfbylUU-M |
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| Cymru | Nov 10 2016, 02:13 AM Post #149 |
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Desperately trying to find a positive in this defeat, eh? Take note of this: Obama's back of the queue statement is now history and indications are that Trump, a Brexit supporter, will put Britain at the front of the line in any trade deals. Also note that Farage is well liked by Trump and is rumoured to be lined up for some position in the Trump administration, US ambassador to the EU being talked about. Edited by Cymru, Nov 10 2016, 02:20 AM.
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| Lewis | Nov 10 2016, 07:57 AM Post #150 |
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I need verifiable stats, not hearsay! |
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| johnofgwent | Nov 10 2016, 08:06 AM Post #151 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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What you mean like happens here when the tories win ? Where thanks to our broken system of first past the post voting, dozens of tories are returned with margins of victory measured in less than four figures while in the sticks were tories if they shoed their face would be hung from lamp posts, donkeys wearing labour rosettes are sent to westminster onthe back of five figure majorities over their nearest rival. Looks to me like before you whinge about the way things are done half way across the globe you should sort out your own back yard ... |
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| AndyK | Nov 10 2016, 08:21 AM Post #152 |
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Its a secret ballot, so that is the best you are going to get. If you are going to question these stats, then you will have to retract your original post that I replied to, since you have no proof to back it up. |
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| redflag | Nov 10 2016, 09:18 AM Post #153 |
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I tend to think its better Trump than getting Clinton because she would have carried out Obama threat of putting the UK at the back of the queue if we did not vote to remain, How dare he tell the people of the UK how to vote in there own affairs. You all seem to forget that Obama was all for the TTIP trade deal which would have been handing our entire economy in the hands of USA Corportations I suggest you try and get a look at some of the leaked papers from TTIP. |
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| RoofGardener | Nov 10 2016, 09:24 AM Post #154 |
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I really don't agree with your analysis, Krugerman.
I really don't understand why you think we are on a "collision course" with the USA. Indeed, Donald Trump seems more pro-British than Obama or Hillary. At the very least , I'm not aware of any policy statement or values statement that Trump has made which might indicate a potential disagreement or clash ?
But I don't think that IS crystal clear, Krugerman. I would suggest that we have a closer cultural connection with American than we do with Germany, France etcetera. We may have different gun control laws, but otherwise I would suggest that our 'values' are closer to Washington than they are to Paris, Berlin or Warsaw. Actually, I may be splitting hairs because most of our core social values are common between the USA and Europe ANYWAY.
It is customary for world leaders to congratulate new incoming leaders if they are on good terms with their nations. Obama both wrote to Theresa May, and had a telephone conversation with her, when she became Prime Minister (even though it was without a direct election). Was he being a creep and "licking the Arse of the British" ? I don't think so, and neither would I characterise TM's message to Donald Trump as being such.
Unfortunately the "law" in question is Sharia, and Merkel is being punished for it by her electorate.
So, this champion of "statesmanship" begins Germany's relationship with the new US President by hectoring him and accusing him of racism and intolerance ?
So he will lose the friendship of Mexico and the Islamic World ? Wow... better start stocking up on tinned food ! Here is a picture of the the "Islamic World". ![]() Feel the Love
Edited by RoofGardener, Nov 10 2016, 09:35 AM.
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| AndyK | Nov 10 2016, 09:32 AM Post #155 |
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I don't agree with this, we share a common language and heritage for sure. But their culture is completely alien to me. |
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| C-too | Nov 10 2016, 09:33 AM Post #156 |
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I'll be much more sensible, I will wait and see what the outcomes are.
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| krugerman | Nov 10 2016, 10:13 AM Post #157 |
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NO you are completely wrong, its not propoganda, it is the truth, and Donald Trumps election, like Brexit here has divided America like never before, more divided than during the Vietnam era, and never more so divided than since the civil war, there is a lot of hate today in America. As for Theressa May, she leapt immediately up Trumps arse, without knowing the first thing about which direction the new president elect will go, whereas Merkel did precisely the right thing by staying on the side of caution and politely reminding Trump that as leaders, they all have obligations. If we take for example Trumps declaration that "we will do a lot more worse than waterboarding", a reference that he would endorse the use of torture, what precisely does that tell ISIS, the Taliban, and lots of other terrorist groups and people with extreme views ?, it sets no example, it means that internationally outlawed torture becomes accepted, and the next time an American is captured and tortured, there's no room for condemnation. The German leader speaks for millions of people, millions across Europe and America agree with her despite your opinions, and despite your opposition to Merkel, and with your kind of views and the views of Trump, the world is today embittered, its divided and its dangerous. More than anything else, the radical political right in both Europe and America must remember they do not carry the support of everyone, it would be a very foolish thing to think you do, and let us remember that Merkel herself is a German Conservative, but a very different kind of Conservatism to both May and Trump, Merkel has compassion, very different to our Tories, who dont know what the word compassion means. The EU will not bow down or suck up to America, unlike our country, and if deals are to the detrement of Europe, then they wont be struck, the warning shots have been made by several European leaders towards Trump, particularly from Tusk and Merkel, and they speak for Europes moral majority including me. As for Mexico, well we will see wont we ?, your illustrious Mr Trump has stated that Mexico will pay for the wall, well my friend, thats one promise which is to be broken and will need to explained. Banning Muslims from entering your country - another ridiculous idea, and its not going to happen, its wind and whaff, bullshit, its nasty sound bites to stir up and excite all those thick, gun hoe, side slapping country boys with their cowboy hats on. If you prefer to believe that you have more in common with Americans, thats fine, you can believe that if you want, and I am sure lots of others might feel the same way, but there are also many millions think the same way I do, that spewing out messages of hate, promoting division in the world and endorsing torture is not the way to go. You dont speak for millions of Brits, and this on top of Brexit means the divisions in society are getting deeper, and more bitter, I am a European and NOT an American. Edited by krugerman, Nov 10 2016, 10:19 AM.
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| Dan1989 | Nov 10 2016, 10:21 AM Post #158 |
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1)You want us to be divided, it's not, you can see post-EU vote, that people are settling down, the same will happen in America, if there is one truth about modern politics is the minority do shout the loudest, while the rest want to get on with it. 2)Merkel, burned herself, by not aligning with him, it's going to be even more difficult for them to get a deal with the EU, and Therasa, has made it more possible for our deal to go through, we are the biggest winners of this result. 3)That was rhetoric, neither Obama or Bush really stopped it, it was going to happen anyway, Trump was trying to show a strong front against terrorism, I disagree with the idea, be he needed to show a strong front. 4)You are the guys that have divided us, you tried to force us together, when we have different wants and needs, don't blame us, when we say no. and yes Merkel speaks for some, but not the vast majority, mate just move to Germany, you're not happy here, just hope she doesn't get removed, there's a strong chance you're going to be so sad, because her chances of staying on is quite slim. 5)The EU will fall in line, it needs to trade with America, thay can not afford to be choosy as you wish them to be, also if he's able to strengthen the dollar, it will push down the Euro, causing more instability for the EU, it can not play politics with trade. 6)I don't support Trump, but America has chosen, I am just ripping apart your propaganda, yes, I agree the wall, will just mean tighter border controls, I believe most people agree with that, the wall was more a metaphor. 7)I didn't say ban, though I am anti-immigration, especially as it's been abused for the last 20 years, but not taking precaution for the most at risk groups, seems tad silly to me, protect one's own. 8)We do have more in common, same language, similar culture & media, close history. You may want to us to be more like Europeans, but I believe that will be a hard sale. Edited by Dan1989, Nov 10 2016, 10:41 AM.
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| C-too | Nov 10 2016, 10:25 AM Post #159 |
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The extremists have got, at least in part, their day, lets hope they don't do too much harm before the world wakes up and dumps them, once again. |
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| Dan1989 | Nov 10 2016, 10:39 AM Post #160 |
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You know you have a nasty habit of calling things that you disagree with as extremist, which in itself is an extremist point of view, I just call it victory for working and middle class voters, who have had enough of politicians meddling. In time a form of Direct Democracy will be championed, especially with the prevalence of the internet, or the very at-least it will be far easier to gauge the public wants with nation wide polls. Edited by Dan1989, Nov 10 2016, 10:43 AM.
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2:47 PM Jul 11