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| Sanders ready to support Trump. | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 18 2016, 09:27 PM (302 Views) | |
| AndyK | Nov 18 2016, 09:27 PM Post #1 |
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If he is prepared to follow up on his promise to take on Corporate America. http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/17/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-allies/ But will Trump really win against the establishment? |
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| Tigger | Nov 18 2016, 09:34 PM Post #2 |
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No, but we live in hope. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 18 2016, 10:21 PM Post #3 |
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Maybe this will refute the myth that Brexit and the Trump presidency was a win by morons voted for by racist thugs. Both the Brexit and the Trump narrative showed a way out for people shat on and ignored for decades in the UK and the US governments. The smug, sneering self elevated pundits seem to get pleasure in telling us how useless we are and how insightful they are . The cod Cassandras who love to revel in a failure that has yet to occur should search their little heads as to how the West has got to this point and how globalisation/multiculturalism has soured the lives of the people who have had to pay for it. We know it, Sanders knows it, Chomsky knows it, but do the ones that slander the people who support both Brexit, Trump and even the likes of Le Pen know it? |
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| Tigger | Nov 18 2016, 10:44 PM Post #4 |
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Well Globalisation is not a left wing phenomenon is it? Nor is the rapid rise in both the US and UK of income inequality and a financial elite who seem to live by different rules, this has happened because both nations were among the most vocal champions of neo liberalism and unrestricted capitalism. So what do the people in these countries do in response to this? Blame outsiders for their problems, lurch to the right and elect a billionaire and a former banker to clean up the mess. The "revolution" has started off on the wrong foot. Edited by Tigger, Nov 18 2016, 10:45 PM.
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| Deleted User | Nov 18 2016, 10:56 PM Post #5 |
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Of course, in fact Noam Chomsky ( I dropped his name because I am not sure that I have the insight that he has..) has said that the likes of the tea party ( and now trump) has addressed workers problems that would have in the past been addressed by labour groups ie unions and centre left political parties. |
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| Affa | Nov 18 2016, 11:05 PM Post #6 |
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Any politician that has voters best interests at heart should do likewise. |
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| Tigger | Nov 18 2016, 11:15 PM Post #7 |
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But is Trump really going to listen to ordinary folks? Already the leaders of globalisation are making a path to Trumps door, the latest to visit Trump Towers was Rupert Murdoch earlier on today. As I've said elsewhere the genius of the right is to use working class patriotism to cynically manipulate these mainly decent people, in this country we have tax dodging, EU grant receiving, ex pat newspaper owners constantly vilifying foreigners because the plebs fall for it, the real villain's wear suits and speak perfect English. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 18 2016, 11:57 PM Post #8 |
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The right doesnt need genius when the left have abandoned the 'decent' working class. |
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| Tigger | Nov 19 2016, 12:59 AM Post #9 |
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But when they do offer something the masses are told by the press good things are actually bad for them! All you have to do is mention Blair and immigrants in the same breath and the job is done! That conditioning has done it's work. Most people don't study or weigh up options they want sound bites and simplistic solutions to complex problems and are prepared to let politicians set the agenda, all the politician then has to do is keep repeating the mantra. In my experience most people don't see problems coming until they are directly affected, and even then some look away from the obvious reasons and look for scapegoats. Again the UK and US with it's poor quality press suffers the most from dumbed down news reporting which often fails completely on objectivity. Tribalism still rules the Anglo Saxons.... |
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| Rich | Nov 19 2016, 02:03 AM Post #10 |
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Have you ever noticed what an interviewed politician says when they are on the backfoot?.....It is a sure sign that they are lying through their teeth.....the mantra'd answer is always...."I don't accept that"....they are taught that by spin doctors who teach them how to perform in front of a camera. I can't tell you HOW many times you will note that well worn phrase now, but I bet you will start counting, so please, do not single out just the media for spreading lies and propaganda....politicians serve an apprenticeship at that and are not allowed onto the second bench until they have done so. |
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| johnofgwent | Nov 19 2016, 05:57 AM Post #11 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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Will Trump really win against the establishment.. ? Well here's the thing. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/david-attenborough-donald-trump-shoot-radio-times-interview-michael-gove-a7390476.html How come this chap is still allowed to broadcast after saying that ?? I can't imagine many people would be .. When you can answer me that, and also explain why the twatterverse has not demanded his head on a pike, you might be someway to answering your own question ... Edited by johnofgwent, Nov 19 2016, 05:57 AM.
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| Deleted User | Nov 19 2016, 11:04 AM Post #12 |
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Well many working class may be miffed that their communities have quite a lot of foreign people in them who seem to be keeping thier wages down and eroding their job security. Maybe they feel that they are the ones who pay for uncontrolled immigration and the ones who call them xenophobes for daring to complain do not. As for Blair, well Blair ( like Clinton) threw in his lot with more market forces control , a target based NHS lead by managers desperate to achieve preset targets....and there is the small case of his interventionalist idealism that lead us a war or two ( of which we are still reeling). Add to that his social experiment/manipulation of multiculturalism and you can easily get the man you love to hate. Now before the usual suspects say that all of these things started before him, OK but Blair accelerated the process was the natural successor to Thatcher. NL did good things for the country in the same way as I could for my family by maxing out my credit cards, getting in a few foreign lodgers that I cannot possibly evict and stating a fight with my next door neighbours. |
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| xosg | Nov 19 2016, 11:18 AM Post #13 |
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Pray, do tell us how you think the revolution should have started,without changing governments and establishments first ? All change starts with one step. |
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| Affa | Nov 19 2016, 11:27 AM Post #14 |
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100% Tell them you're on their side ...... and then get them to do precisely as you want. They take us for mugs! And the record shows they are right. Edited by Affa, Nov 19 2016, 11:27 AM.
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| xosg | Nov 19 2016, 12:10 PM Post #15 |
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Well Blair et al certainly took you's for mugs.Works both ways |
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| Tigger | Nov 19 2016, 09:10 PM Post #16 |
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He was joking?
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| Tigger | Nov 19 2016, 09:25 PM Post #17 |
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I might as well be blunt, in another tread you say globalisation is here to stay, I agree, I could also cruelly point out that the Luddites never got their jobs back and progress continued, Britain being the champion of free markets embraced all that it entailed and that meant being swamped with mainly unskilled immigrants which has riled many people including myself. This is the worst bit, we can't turn the clock back and carry on like those Luddites wanted too, that big bad World will just carry on regardless, we can boot out the immigrants but in return we need more money pumped into education at all levels and we need to be able to compete at a higher level, all I'm seeing is dumbing down and millions expecting to be delivered from the recent problems, it won't happen. The people who rule us will look out for themselves like they always have done and the rest will face all the familiar problems before long. An unelected Lord who was ironically a former diplomat and businessman said yesterday that the British are stupid, lazy etc, and we needed immigrants to keep us on our toes, this is what we are up against............... Edited by Tigger, Nov 19 2016, 09:26 PM.
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| Deleted User | Nov 19 2016, 09:38 PM Post #18 |
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Did I say globalisation is here to stay? How long is here to stay? Why would you be cruel to make a non point and who are you cruel to? The Luddites did not get their jobs back but further down the line others came together to form worker societies and unions. These societies and unions gave them some power to share in the wealth Oh and add another non point to your list... ....But when they do offer something the masses are told by the press good things are actually bad for them! but are you saying that mass immigration has been good for 'them' and if so who are ' them'? People living or affected negatively by mass immigration do not need the newpapers to tell them the obvious and its ironic that you blame the newspapers in the same simplistic manner that you accuse the great unwashed of . Looks like you and the unelected lord have much in common |
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| Tigger | Nov 19 2016, 10:09 PM Post #19 |
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![]() The point I was trying to get across was we cannot put the genie back in the bottle, those who complain the most about immigration will have to step up to the plate, if they don't or can't that new found "freedom" will be worthless. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 19 2016, 10:13 PM Post #20 |
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Nope the point you were trying to make is that the electorate consists of idiots guided by the Daily Telegraph. When it is pointed out that the people who complain about immigration are sometimes a victim of it you put your fingers in your ears and try a new tack. |
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| Tigger | Nov 19 2016, 10:27 PM Post #21 |
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You need to take your fingers out of your ears as well, booting out immigrants will not solve the chronic self inflicted problems this country suffers from, the idiots are those who disagree with this. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 19 2016, 10:30 PM Post #22 |
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You need to read what is posted and not want you want to read. I have never advocated ' booting out' immigrants I have pointed out that . that the people who complain about immigration are sometimes a victim of it .. and not necessarily bigots who read the Daily Telegraph. Even these people generally understand that immigrants will not be ejected in their millions ..even if you have convinced yourself otherwise |
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| Tigger | Nov 19 2016, 10:56 PM Post #23 |
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We keep getting told immigration is the number one issue that led to brexit, now presumably if the ones already here who are apparently pinching jobs and using up public services can stay then surely the vote was a waste of time? I keep hearing time and again from Brexitards they must go, if not what is the point? Sure we can impose limits later on but this may prove harder to do than some migh imagine. |
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| Deleted User | Nov 19 2016, 11:00 PM Post #24 |
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Where did you here this?..was it in the snug bar or the saloon? The number one issue was control of borders and national sovereignty. When you learn to the difference why not come back? |
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| Phoenix One UK | Nov 19 2016, 11:01 PM Post #25 |
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You did know that a lot of those immigrants who settled in UK and became British subjects also voted for Brexit I trust.
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| Deleted User | Nov 19 2016, 11:06 PM Post #26 |
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Well more than one Pole has complained to me about those Lithuanians coming in and at least one Latvian complained about the Slavs,,they all seem to hate the Romanians.... |
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| AndyK | Nov 19 2016, 11:07 PM Post #27 |
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A company I work for was recently taken over by an American conglomerate. It promptly went on a "value engineering" drive which basically meant they had to move production of the precision machined metal parts to China from a local company one street away. That company is now facing going out of business which also means there will be no one to do the prototype work for any new product engineering or any other bits and bobs that need doing. That's globalisation for you. |
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| Tigger | Nov 19 2016, 11:23 PM Post #28 |
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That is why we should have repatriated all the foreigners after the war ended, look what they've done with our values and freedoms.
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| Tigger | Nov 19 2016, 11:27 PM Post #29 |
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Not good, the Chinese are highly protectionist and it is very hard for standalone foreign firms to set up shop in China so a reverse situation would be nigh on impossible, plus as you probably know the Chinese have few qualms about patent infringement or simply stealing ideas. |
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| johnofgwent | Nov 20 2016, 09:03 AM Post #30 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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So its ok for a bloke like him to joke about killing a president elect but NOT ok for someone of a different political persuasion to say the same of one they don't approve of ... Well that explains a lot |
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| johnofgwent | Nov 20 2016, 09:12 AM Post #31 |
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It .. It is GREEN !!
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One thing I have to ask ... As I pointed out before, I rarely take notice of yank internal politics, my only reason for doing so this time was a real at the start, but now highly unlikely ... possibility of qualifying for residency and citizenship as the father of a GI bride ... Anyway, here's the thing Is there any truth in the story doing the rounds that Clinton manipulated or otherwise arranged for his race to be the candidate to come to an early end ... Because if so, or even if not, it seems bloody obvious to me that someone on that end of the spectrum, having seen the way Hilary fucked up and pissed off the key voters they need to get back in, would go out of their way to "work with" instead of "working against"the wishes of those key voters... If only to be looked upon less critically by them when/if Trump fucks up. |
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| Cymru | Nov 20 2016, 09:43 AM Post #32 |
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If you are referring to Sanders it has been well documented by Wikileaks releases that the Democratic National Committee (the US Democratic Party equivalent to the UK Labour Party's National Executive Committee) broke their own rules to support Clinton and undermine Sanders, especially in the case of candidates gaining the support of delegates to secure their party's nomination as candidate for the presidential election. |
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| Tigger | Nov 20 2016, 08:46 PM Post #33 |
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He wasn't waving a gun or dressed in cammo when he made the comment, and his tongue was firmly in his cheek, context is everything.
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